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#445423 06/19/04 08:13 AM
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I have no way of getting any more info about OM other than what I have.

WW decided she didn't want to go out last night, and we could play scrabble instead. I thought that would be cool and agreed. When she went to the barn to clean her horse's stall, she discovered there was a riding clinic in progress. She called and said she was going to stay for awhile and watch.

She came home around 10pm. I was outside smoking and talking to DD(12) when she came home. DD(12) ran down to her car and when WW opened the door was scared when DD(12) materialized in front of her. That was funny.

We talked for about 15 minutes outside, and then went to my room, it was 10:20pm by this time. The Others was on TNT and I watched the end of it. At 11pm, I went out for another smoke, WW was on the computer chatting, doesn't matter with who. I went back in, and went to bed.

I realized, I don't have to tell anyone how I felt about her deciding not to go out, but then deciding to stay at the barn to watch the riding clinic. Everyone I have talked to about it so far, completely understood without me ever having to say anything.

WW told me last night she's off on Monday because she has to work next Saturday. Now I know, she can take her day off any day she wants too, so I don't know why she chose Monday. Maybe she did it because I have every Monday off, I don't know. I guess it doesn't really matter much, I'm sure she'll do her best to spend as much of it as possible at the barn. Seems Work or the barn are preferable than being home with her family.

Counseling is on Wednesday, I'll make sure to tell the Counselor about the events after last counseling, her asking me to stop pressuring for "the answer" and pretending everything is normal, and what she did last night. I'll also tell WW, "I'm glad you're still here, because the girls and I have a more wonderful life with you fully in it" as suggested by wannabophim.

My gut tells me she's trying to buy time, even though she acts like she's trying. To be honest, I don't see this as trying. Trying would be 100% NC.

After the stalking link she sent me, I don't ask her about anything she's done or is going to do, unless she volunteers the information first. Personally, I don't think a husband and wife should be that way. I wish I knew what she's doing and why. I mean, if she's just buying time, be honest about it. I think she's afraid I'll make her move out before she's ready. I wouldn't do that because of the kids. I'd rather know and be able to accept she's leaving, instead of her letting me feel there's hope. The sad part is, I don't know if she really is trying and this is the best she can do, or if she is just trying to buy time.

She says pressuring her for "the answer" pushes her away, but she fails to realize as long as OM is in the picture, all she's doing is pushing me away.

All I need to do is make it through July 18th, that's when WW and girls get back from California. I'm going to do my best to wait and see if things are any different. If not, then it'll be time for Plan B.

Once again, still hoping for a good weekend, especially since it's Father's Day.

#445424 06/19/04 10:32 PM
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Well, I'm almost entirely convinced she's trying to drag this out until she has a better job where she can afford to move out without having to file bankruptcy.

See, she doesn't understand that I don't want to kick her out, I just want her to be honest. I think she's afraid if I know she's going to leave anyway that I'll kick her out. So I think she's stringing me along to prevent that.

If she told me she has no intention of staying and is just waiting for a time that's good for her, then I could accept that much better than having false hope until she says she's leaving. I would have time to adjust and we could go our seperate ways amicably. If she's stringing me along then she's just being cruel.

Here's another interesting little tidbit, remember when I got my anti-anxiety pills? Well, I got 30 in the bottle, and the other day WW mentioned something about she's been taking them. Well, today I counted them, there are 27 still in the bottle, and I know I took 3 of them. Why did she lie?

I'm thinking she's got a compulsive lying problem. One more thing to bring up in counseling.

I'm still undecided whether or not to mention my gut feeling that she's stringing me along so I don't kick her out before she's ready to leave. Personally, I'd never do that, simply because I feel the kids need to have us both around until such a time as it's no longer possible.

#445425 06/20/04 09:12 AM
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Happy Father's Day! I know it will be a bittersweet day for you, but hope you can enjoy it.

I would not worry too much about why your wife is still there. She probably doesn't even know.

I watched a documentary about sex addicts last night (not that your wife is one), and it was quite interesting. Mainly these people get their high off all the planning, thinking about OP, and that sort of thing, NOT the sex part.

They said that the problem is caused by not enough affection in childhood.

#445426 06/20/04 11:24 PM
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Wow, I wrote a long post, but my browser screwed up. Guess I'll just have to summarize.

Believer, I'm not surprised in the least about that show you saw, I guess that's part of the fog as well.

Father's Day was good to me, all things considered. WW and the girls got me a SpiderMan 2 T-Shirt and Shrek 2 boxers! VERY COOL!

WW and DD(12) made biscuits and gravy for breakfast. The significance in this is WW hasn't made Sunday breakfast in a long time, she didn't feel I appreciated it.

WW was at the barn from about 10am till almost 2pm. During that time, I cleaned the porch, swept up all the dog hair, and cleaned up all the spider webs. I even washed my car.

Cleaned house when WW got home. We all went to bring WW's horse in for the night, then we went to the park. This was cool, considering I was the one running around with the girls. WW just kinda lounged around at the bottom of the slides. I was disappointed in her lack of interaction.

For dinner, WW made Zatarain's Black Beans and Rice with chopped up chicken added, spinach, and home made cornbread. Very yummy dinner.

Said a few other things, but can't remember them all, getting sleepy.

Oh yeah, if anyone wants to chat or email me here's my info:

Hotmail: rwukovich@hotmail.com
Yahoo: rwukovich@yahoo.com
AIM: robertwukovich
MSN: rwukovich@hotmail.com
Yahoo chat: rwukovich@yahoo.com

I think those are all correct.

All in all, had a pretty good Father's Day. Believer, thanks for the Father's Day, I didn't even think anyone online would wish me Happy Father's Day. Then again, I don't visit too many other threads, just don't seem to be online surfing much other than to continue with my own soap opera.

See you all later! Hope everyone had a Happy Father's Day!

#445427 06/21/04 09:50 AM
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yes my friend i know how knowing the "date" a PA happens memoralizes it for you. the 19th of june will always be in my head. Saturday was not a good day or night..... anyway just wanted to let you know it will be with you for awhile and its normal . I even remember that the june 19th of her affair was a WED. Just dont let it overwhelm you and keep chugging along your doing good.
CLIFF

#445428 06/22/04 08:03 AM
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Cliff: Memorial Day is a special day that holds significant meaning, especially since I spent 11 years in the Air Force. Now I feel it's been tainted, and I hope some day, I won't feel dread when it approaches.


Ended up having a talk with WW yesterday. She worked on resumes, and got 3 finished. 2 for Indianapolis and 1 for South Carolina. WW is talking about new jobs in singular. We ended up talking about it, and she said she at a minimum it may only be her relocating, so she has to look at it in that respect. Understandable I suppose. However, we ended up talking about my concerns, posted above, that she's already reached a decision and is only buying time until she gets an out. I expressed that would be cruel, and it would be much easier to handle knowing it's over and living together than having hope for no reason.

WW advised she's still undecided and is appearantly hoping the 10 days in California will be good for us. There won't be any internet access, and I'm going to ask WW to leave her cell home. I hope the best for her. I'm going to enjoy the silence of 10 days, but at the same time I'm going to miss them terribly.

Oh, talked about WW's NC terms, turns out she claims there have been no phone calls, chatting, or emails, but there have been a few online posts in the public domain. I have no way of verifying any of those except for the last. I pointed out, that was still against what she told me. She had said she would not respond to anything online. The temptation of being online is too great for her, which is why she's looking forward to the California trip.

There is so much that needs to be discussed with the counselor. I don't think an hour is going to cut it. So much has happened in the last 2 weeks.

Did some thinking (like I ever stop), and I really am ready for this to be over one way or the other. Yeah, I have some heartache, but I've reached a point I can handle divorce without any problems. All I have to do is just stop and think do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has demonstrated what WW is capable of? Then the heartache comes up, the pressure builds, and I start to sweat. You can feel the panic trying to gain control.

Had a bad dream last night, involved WW, infidelity, and OM/OM's(not sure, kinda fuzzy) that woke me up in a cold sweat around 3am. I think the strain of this situation is starting to get to me. Was at WalMart yesterday and did one of those blood pressure machines, not good. WW even noticed and said something, but I said nothing. She truly does not understand the stress of this situation is causing me.

This is laughable, WW asked if I'd clean her horse stall while she was gone or if she should have someone at the barn do it, I haven't provided an answer yet, not entirely sure I'd feel comfortable doing that knowing what she was doing the last time I did it. Granted, I know that won't be happening this time, but still, it's the whole concept again. I suppose I should approach this from the standpoint of, if I don't do it, then I'm letting what happened cause negativity in me in regards to caring for the horse. If I do it, then every time I clean the stall, or whatever, I'll be thinking about what happened. Catch-22. Any suggestions? Should I do it, or have her get someone else?

Well, I should probably get to work. More later.

#445429 06/22/04 09:10 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All I have to do is just stop and think do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who has demonstrated what WW is capable of? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps the asking of that question is an answer unto itself.

You are an extraordinary man.

ITB

#445430 06/22/04 09:58 AM
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Hmmm. I think I would have her get someone else to clean the horse stall. She will have to do that anyway if she moves.

She is not making too much sense right now. Is she moving and taking the horse? The kids? Very strange.

And tell her no contact means no contact, not a little contact, some contact, blah, blah, blah. (But leave out the blah, blah, blah.)

#445431 06/22/04 11:31 AM
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ITB: Yeah, it's the question I've been asking myself all along. I sometimes wish I wasn't the optimist I am. I believe, under the right conditions, a miracle could occur, lightning can strike the same place twice. I know staying together for the kids is the wrong thing to do, and I won't do it. BUT, I feel I owe it to them, to give this every chance, the big difference if she decides to stay is my eyes are WIDE open. You better believe if she decides to stay, that everything will be under scrutiny.

Believer: Yeah, I've been thinking I kinda like the idea of not having to go clean that horse's stall every day.

I can do what I want, when I want, go where I want to go. I'll be FREE for 10 whole days. Hehe, and DD(12) thought I wasn't happy about them going. If she only knew how much I'm looking forward to this vacation as much as she is. I'm just wondering how long it'll take before I start missing them.

I agree, she doesn't make too much sense right now. I'd be scared to see just how confused her head is. If she left, without us, she would make arrangements for someone to care for her horse until she could have it relocated.

The kids, now there's an interesting topic. She's talked both ways, having to pay child support and even talked about having them with her, meaning joint custody, 50/50. But I don't think the courts do that, one parent has to be the primary, and the other has to pay child support.

I tell WW all the time NC means NC. I'm sure the counselor will tell her the same thing tomorrow. I pointed out to her yesterday, that she said she was going to ignore anything he might post online, and she hasn't. Of course, she didn't say anything about it other than it was in the public domain. Meaning, she commented on his pictures, but I know it's been more than just in the public domain.

She also reiterated yesterday that she doesn't hate me. I'm not sure why she thinks I think she hates me. What gets me is how oblivious she is. Everything is about how it's pushing her away, not once do I even see a glimmer that what she's doing might be pushing me away.

Getting back to work!

#445432 06/23/04 12:19 AM
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Gee I hope you keep the kids with you. Your wife makes no sense at all. Even if I had a strong, long term relationship, I would have a hard time picking up and moving to a new city, new job, etc., and dragging my kids away with me. It is just crazy.

#445433 06/23/04 12:51 AM
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DD(12) is from my previous marriage and isn't going anywhere. WW said she didn't want to split up the girls, so I don't know what's going to happen.

Obviously, in my perfect fantasy world, we stay together as a family and live happily ever after.

What's really going to happen? I have no clue, not sure WW does either.

<small>[ June 22, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: RWukovich ]</small>

#445434 06/22/04 01:01 PM
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My vote is to keep the girls. Let wife do her thing, and take her horse. She is doing a lot of weird planning and fantacising. I think she will stay with you. But that is just my guess.

#445435 06/22/04 02:14 PM
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I have every intention of keeping the girls, and I'm currently letting WW do whatever she wants. I'd like to believe she'll stay and work things out with me, but I still have to plan as if she's going to leave me. I guess the good thing is, it's not like we have a deadline or anything. She simply said we'd see where we are in a couple of months.

Only problem is, I don't know if I can "pretend" everything is normal for another couple of months.

#445436 06/22/04 02:39 PM
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Plan A is not about "pretending" everything is normal. You have the option to say that you are really hurt by her actions.

Also do you go out with friends? Anything that raises your self-esteem is good.

#445437 06/22/04 06:48 PM
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RW, a few thoughts.

Where children are concerned, no matter who gets to be the primary caregiver, the usual rule is that, that parent, can’t move more then 50 miles away from the other parent. This is for obvious reasons, sooooo if your W decides to move out of state…well…

As for cleaning stalls…I would respectfully disagree if you were thinking of going in that direction. If it were I, I would explain that “my” holiday weekend would be impaired by the additional responsibility. She has chosen to go away once again and of course that’s her decision to make, however, it doesn’t mean that you have to make things easy for her.

Also, waiting until she returns to make a decision, is in my opinion counter productive. She is feeling no pressure to come to some conclusion here. She is floating along and enjoying a situation that has you on a string. I think that you should be “mean spirited” enough to let her know that you’re taking control of your situation,…your life in effect. I would let her know that having a selfish disinterested party as a mate might not be in your future plans. No threat! Just plain talk.

On the issue of no contact, I think you realize that this is a farce. Why aid and abet by making believe that she’s doing what she agreed to do but isn’t? Why belittle yourself by not confronting the issue?

Lastly, how long have you been in plan A? Plan A is not intended to be an indefinite state of affairs after all. There is a stipulated limit. Do you think you might have exceeded that limit? Just look at your current state of mind. You’re disconnecting from your W! Your love for her is dwindling! This usually signals that plan A has gone on to long and its time for plan B.

Just some thoughts you might want to consider.

coach

#445438 06/23/04 07:12 AM
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Believer: WW never actually asked me to "pretend" everything is normal. That was my interpretation by her asking me to stop pressing for "the answer". I asked if that's what she meant, stop pressing for "the answer" and "pretend" everything is normal? She said yes. So, I'm not entirely sure what she's expecting things to be like. She knows I'm hurt by her actions. In our last counseling, she said that's part of the reason she hasn't left, because she sees how much it hurts me. I do go out with my friends, when I can. That's why I'm looking forward to the 10 day trip to California. It'll be good for me to be away from her for that time. Maybe I'll actually be able to get some sleep.

Coach3530: I need to find out what the custody laws are for this state I guess. I don't think WW has looked into that either. I told WW last night, she needed to get someone else to clean her horse's stall, so that's now a non-issue. I don't think she's waiting until she comes back to make a decision, I believe it's just thinking time for her. When she asked me to stop pressing for "the answer", she said we'd look at where we are in a couple of months.

Yeah, I think WW's version of NC is a joke. I point out every chance I get that she's not doing what she agreed to do, which I want to remind, was of her own choice. Which leads me back to just what the heck are we doing here?

Plan A started in March, and you're right, I've just about reached the end of my rope. I'm ready for Plan B, but I need to wait until they get back from California. That's when I'll begin my push for physical seperation.


Counseling is this afternoon, and I've no idea how we're going to fit 2 weeks into 1 hour. So many things have happened. If there is anything I get out of today, I want to understand what we're supposed to be doing, and I want to make sure she understands how cruel it is to let me have false hope with the intent of keeping things amicable until such a time that she can leave.

I can't imagine what the counselor is going to say as a result of all this crap. I already know the counselor sees how messed up WW is. I wish there was some way I could get WW to see a psychiatrist.


Thanks everyone, you give me strength, and food for thought. What more could I ask of friends?

Now begins the long day, as I anxiously await counseling....

#445439 06/24/04 07:15 AM
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Counseling yesterday ended up with me doing most of the talking. Mostly about my perspective of the last 2 weeks.

WW expressed she initiated this NC with OM she's doing is because I asked her to. I said the intent was for her to chose to do that because she wanted to work on our relationship, because that is what it would take. I further said, the intent was for 100% NC.

Of course, right in counseling, WW said what I was saying is what she's doing isn't good enough. I said, that's not what I said, and I turned to the counselor at this point to show that WW always turns everything I say into something I didn't say. The counselor asked her if she understood what I was trying to say. She eventually indicated she understood, not sure, but she might have.

I also pointed out she wasn't wearing OM's necklace around me anymore, but I suspected she always had it with her. Then I asked if she had it with her, it wasn't on her person, but she had it in her car. At which point, I indicated that she was still clinging to OM, whether she was directly in contact or not. I said, we wouldn't be able to find out if there will ever be anything between us until she's 100% over him, and that could take months. Then it would take months to see if we could make anything of our relationship.

The counselor pointed out that what I'm doing at this point is trying to protect myself from being hurt anymore, and is perfectly understandable and acceptable. WW indicated she's not stringing me along, she really is undecided. But she still maintains she thinks nothing of me more than she would a friend. Which is understandable, considering where we are in this nightmare.

We had a parent's meeting at DD(3)'s daycare last night. It's a very nice daycare and they have big plans in the work, all very nice. After we left, WW indicated DD(3) should stay at that daycare until she's at least 5. If she leaves, I guess that means DD(3) will be staying, of course.

The next counseling session is in 2 weeks on July 7th and it's for WW only. WW and girls leave for California for 10 days on 9 July. Our next joint session shouldn't be until 21 July, three days after they get back from California.

I've definitly reached the point where either way this goes will be a good thing. If she decides to leave, then the nightmare will be over. If she decides to stay, then we have a chance to work on our relationship. Whichever is perfectly fine with me. Yes, I still love her, but I don't need the crap anymore, nor do I want it.

Ready to field questions and comments!

#445440 06/24/04 11:27 AM
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Sounds like you are handling things well. I would start getting my Plan B letter ready. Most WS's do not end the affair until Plan B is initiated.

You have done a good Plan A. The MB plan is 6 months for men.

Also I think it will be nice for you when WW goes to California. You will get a nice break.

#445441 06/24/04 11:44 AM
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Believer: I would like to think I've done a good plan A. I haven't reached 6 months yet, 6 months would be the beginning of Sepember. I'm guessing she'll move out on her own by then anyway.

She did another resume last night, so I'm expecting her to get something from one of these places soon, and then she'll have to make her decision.

Of course, at this point, I'm expecting her to go alone. For now, I'll continue to be patient.

#445442 06/24/04 01:14 PM
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Yep, you'll have to see if she gets a job. But she has been sending resumes for awhile now and is still with you, so who knows?

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