Myrta,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course there were feelings, but those feelings are dissolving, those feelings are starting to dissapear! I still dont hate the OM, like he wants me to! I dont think I will ever hate him. I know that because of HIM there was a lot of damage done to my marriage, but it was not only his fault, I allowed him to do the damage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll give you another quote by Eli Weismann </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The opposite of love is NOT hate, it is indifference</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Think about that. Stanley really doesn't want you to hate the OM, although he may think so. That would mean that OM is present in your emotional mind. He wants what is happening and that is he ceases to create any feelings in your mind: hate or love. You will NEVER forget but the feelings will fade.

I must tell you Myrta, the part I find really bothersome and strange and sort of sets my teeth on edge, is the OM's contact with your children. The fact that he wanted to refer to them as his. The fact that he emailed your D. Perhaps it is the protective father in me, but I find that part really bothersome. I know you don't find it a problem, but... I think the man was really a bit off in this regard and perhaps a potential problem.

Stanley, I am getting ready to shut down tonight, but I think your fears while normal will prove to be baseless. You see this A changed both you and Myrta. You are now worried that she will seek the excitement of another affair with OM or another man and that you are not exciting enough for her. Fair enough to think that.

But, you don't realize that Myrta has changed as well. She did NOT really believe she could lose her family when she had the affair because she felt it would not be found out. Further, it was a fantasy and she KNEW she would not leave you. Yet, you found out, and she came closer to losing what she thought she could not lose, than she ever thought possible. I truely believe she does and will come to view you marriage in a different light than she did before. She now sees it as fragile, she sees you as someone who can be deeply hurt by her.

I think as the months go by you both will come to realize you both value your marriage more than ever before because you now KNOW it is something that you both need to protect.

Must go, But you two keep working on this, you are doing far better than you realize.

God Bless,

JL

JUST LEARNING!
jUSt one question for now!
Why should the OM refering to my children as his children worry you or my husband?
That was before, NOT NOW!!! Yeah, he might had be delusional, but we are not in contact ANYMORE!!!
When he refered to my girls as his, I thought "oh my, if my husband knew this, he would be really pissed". That was a reality check then!!!
But there is no contact whatsoever anymore. I dont see this as a potential problem at all!!!
Myrta <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

JL:

Desperate men with poor reality check can do strange things. They may even break the law if they have to. The OM talking about my kids as his kids is very creepy indeed and I am glad Myrta also thought it was odd. I know Myrta never saw the OM’s kids as her children.

I have a daughter that has been depressed since she broke up with her boyfriend. She is in her mid 20s and has a mindset very similar to mine. Among all my kids she is somewhat special because we talk several times a day and she looks up to me a lot. Is one of those situations where the daughter adores her dad (and that happens to be me). So Myrta tells the OM all the intimate details of my daughter and somehow the OM says that if he has a talk with my daughter he can fix all her problems. I know for a fact that my daughter would not even consider OM a man and she would not listen to him at all.


Why do I worry?

When I read about affairs in the news and see what the Scott Peterson’s of the world can do I become concerned. I often look over my shoulder when I leave the house to work. The OM knows where I live and where I work. If I was out of the picture things would be fairly easy for the OM. Myrta says I am paranoid, but my concern is that she only knows the good side of the OM. Who knows what is really in there? OM also contacted Myrta’s mom after supposedly he was out of the picture and in permanent NC. OM showed up unexpectedly in our city several weeks ago. That is why I told Myrta shortly after D-day that I have a document in my office that is to be opened if I die under mysterious circumstances. In this document I mention the name of OM as prime suspect. I made sure Myrta told the OM about this. I don’t want to take any chances.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
<strong> Why do I worry?

When I read about affairs in the news and see what the Scott Peterson’s of the world can do I become concerned. I often look over my shoulder when I leave the house to work. The OM knows where I live and where I work. If I was out of the picture things would be fairly easy for the OM. Myrta says I am paranoid, but my concern is that she only knows the good side of the OM. Who knows what is really in there? OM also contacted Myrta’s mom after supposedly he was out of the picture and in permanent NC. OM showed up unexpectedly in our city several weeks ago. That is why I told Myrta shortly after D-day that I have a document in my office that is to be opened if I die under mysterious circumstances. In this document I mention the name of OM as prime suspect. I made sure Myrta told the OM about this. I don’t want to take any chances. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow! That's a scary thought. As if there aren't already enough things to deal with. Maybe you should check into a restraining order at some point.

Myrta,

I think you H answered this well. My comment was not about you or the affair, it was about this OM. He apparently did have a decidedly delusional approach to your family and even his ability to fix things in your daughters life.

I guess, since I am a guy, I worry about men that seem to be outside the norm. I am not talking about the A, I am talking about his thinking with respect to your children.

I just find it worrisome, but there is nothing to do, and this is NOT about your marriage, the A, or anything. He just comes across as someone or the type of someone to be a little weary (sp) of.

JL

I hope I never hear from OM again. His reality assessment is at best very poor.

Shortly after D-day I told my wife that the phones might be tapped. I recorded a call by the OM where my wife promptly informed him that the phones were tapped. OM kept talking with complete disregard for the tap. This is after I had sent the OM several stern emails where I told him not to call MY HOME. Well the OM kept calling my home for many more weeks and I couldn’t record anymore because Myrta found the device and disabled it. Nevertheless I always made it clear that there could be other recording devices somewhere in the basement. In any event the OM kept calling. I give Myrta a lot of credit for agreeing to change her cell number and afterwards our home number. Before the change of the home number the OM told Myrta that because he was a cop he could get both numbers if he really wanted to do so.

This OM was VERY sure Myrta was going to marry him even thou Myrta never said she would. OM has also IM one of my daughters and I worry about him disclosing the affair to my family. That is one of the reasons I have not proceeded with a retraining order. I am simply hoping the OM goes away. At this point no one knows about the affair and I suspect this OM could make it public. A scorned man is dangerous!

My wife Myrta does not like to hear negative remarks about the OM, but I am simply stating facts that suggest some concern. Hopefully OM was just a desperate man in love who had poor judgment by calling my house against my wishes.

However, the delusion is worrisome, for example OM refused to believe he was involved in an affair. He wanted to believe he was a boyfriend and that they were a real couple. He made plans for the future and seemed completely swallowed by the fantasy.

JUST LEARNING---DEJA VU---
My husband is exagerating here. Why should he fear the OM? My husband is the one that used to write him nasty-insulting e-mails!! The OM never answered any of them!!! My husband was the one saying to me, that he would like to see the OM dead!! The OM never say such things.
He never wrote my daughter an e-mail. He helped my daughter via-computer with an assignment she had for college. Thats all! He has never called her, although he had IMed her a couple of times.
When we were together he refered to my girls as "our daughters". I thought it was kind of weird, but at the same time kind of cute. But of course , at the same time, I thought, that if my husband knew that he would not be happy!! I used to tell the OM about the problems with my kids, and he would offer advice(he used to be a high-school counselor) and he told me one day, that it would be nice if he could talk to one of my daughters, and try to advice her. This daughter is very insecure about her looks and abilities. She is very beautiful and a jr.architect but she thinks she is stupid! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She became very insecure after the breakup with her only boyfriend! They had been broken up for 3 years, and she is still in pain!!! She is very much like my husband, very righteous, almost puritanical.
JL- I do see my marriage very fragile now, as of before I did not. I never thought I was going to be found out. I also never thought I was inflicting such agony in my husband. So, yes I do see my marriage in a different light now. It is far more precious that I ever gave credit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It really creeps me out, that my husband is always looking for signs in my expressions and actions. To see if he sees love for him. It makes me very uneasy. I always see such dark cloud over his eyes, and I dont like it. I know him so well. His eyes have a different look now. I see a sadness and always a question mark, or even acussations.
Take care!
Myrta

Myrta,

You are only 4-5 months out since d-day. IF you keep loving your H and your words match your actions, you will see the clouds lift. It is clear he loves you very very much, but yes he does have fears. OM represents a huge threat to your marriage. I commented on that in KiwiJ's thread. I know you don't see it you don't realize what OM's goal was. It was the end of your marriage and your family. Stanley knows this.

I hope your daughter recovers from what has happened to her. How old is she? I hate to see kids have troubles such as she is having it is so hard to watch them and it is so hard to help them.

I must go, but I look forward to hearing from you. I see you posting and helping other people Myrta. That is very good to see.

God Bless,

JL

JL--Sometimes I feel the clouds lifting, but others I feel a huge thunderstorm on top of us!
I know he loves me, I can see it sometimes. But even though he does, sometimes ,I wonder if that is going to be enough to stay with me in the long run.
Maybe you are right, saying that the OM was bad news because he just wanted the breakup of my marriage. But he fell in love with me, and I guess he stop reasoning about what was right or not.
My daughter in question is 24, she broke up with her boyfriend three years ago, and that was her first boyfriend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Thats why she is taking it so hard, she waited so long, and it did not end well. She has become extremely picky and see faults in all men that approach her. She wants a man just like her dad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But, the "mold was broken" after my husband <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Any advice you can offer for me to give her? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I am trying to help CC come out of her confusion, but I dont see too much progress. Your help is needed!!! ASAP
Thanks
God Bless
Myrta

<small>[ October 04, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

Myrta,

As for CC, you are actually doing very well. You don't need my help as she will listen to you much more than me. Further, you have information she needs. It is a bit frustrating isn't it? But, don't worry you can help her more than you realize.

I am so sorry about your daughter. I have a son the same age, and it seems in that 21-25 age, there is a lot of pain and growing to do. They are far more vulnerable than they think or we realize sometimes.

I do hope that she will grow to realize there are some good guys out there. Given that she has you for a mother and Stanley as a father, I am betting someone is going to realize she is quite a catch and very special. When that happens, she will recover. That is my guess anyway.

The point I am making about OM, is that you need to consider him from the point of view of the health of your marriage. In that context he was NOT a good guy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Don't give up on Stanely, he will heal and come around. He loves you too much, and if you give him the same love, he will heal. It just takes awhile. It is that Time and Patience thing Myrta, you cannot get around T&P.

Must go.

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know he loves me, I can see it sometimes. But even though he does, sometimes ,I wonder if that is going to be enough to stay with me in the long run.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Myrta, I am going to turn 54 next month even thou I feel like 30. I am very motivated to keep our marriage------------ AND HAVE NO DESIRE to try elsewhere. You would have to bring the OM into your life for me to go. BTW, I see you are less tenacious in your defense of the OM and that is gratifying!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe you are right, saying that the OM was bad news because he just wanted the breakup of my marriage. But if he fell in love with me, and I guess he stop reasoning about what was right or not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL:

I think Myrta is correct in her assessment. In fact he might have been delusional about the relationship. At the end he was calling Myrta his wife, added his surname, my daughters were his, and was making plans for the wedding. In his mind the affair was now a normal relationship and they were a couple.

Myrta assures me she never gave him any indication she planned to leave the marriage. She always would say------ "I am not ready." After D-day OM had a hard time believing the relationship was over and I see a lot of similarities with CC and I would venture to say many other OPs are the same. The intoxication created by an affair is simply incredible and the brain chemistry changes have to be more profound than with a normal relationship in the open. I am glad to report Myrta sees this quite well and is trying to help CC with this brain chemistry.

Myrta is quite good at picking up the feelings of others and she is often a very good soundboard for those in need. In fact her relationship with OM started as she helped him cope with the pain of destroying his own marriage and the hurt it caused the children. Paradoxically at the end he wanted Myrta to destroy her own marriage even thou he knew it was VERY painful. I do see the similarities with CC and Myrta has given CC a lot of insight as to how OPs operate.

Dear Myrta!

I have followed yours and Stanley’s struggle for some time now. I think you have received excellent advice and feed back.
Before I start I must say that this is a (light) 2x4, but there are no flames. I have empathy and I understand your pain for what you have done to S, and for the fall-outs in your life.


This post is a response to your defence of the OM. I understand your need for self respect in this. You feel that since you bonded to him emotionally and through PA, he has to be quality. Otherwise how could you do this?

Yet, you tell of how he planed to take over your husband’s entire life. Steal his wife and also his kids. Can you not see how this defines him (the OM)?
And try to put on your husband’s shoes and try to feel how this treat must have made him feel. Try to feel the terrible treat, he must have felt. Given your present concern for the state of your M this exercise should not be a difficult one to you.
Also, when you have had a close escape, say from a terrible car accident, the thought of what nearly happened will have the power to terrify months, and even years into the future. In the same way you must expect S to respond emotionally to the treat he now has escaped, and that those emotions will linger for quite some time. When S hears your defence of the OM, how can he but hear that the treat is not quite gone? And even if S should now feel perfectly safe, can you not see how provocative to S your defence of the OM must be? he must question to whom your loyalty belongs.

For the sake of your H and your M. Let go of the need to defend OM. Keep your mouth shut and bite your tongue if you have to.


If S feels a need to bad-mouth the OM, so what? By your actions, if not by your words, you have communicated for two years to the OM that S was not worth respect. A PA does communicate that, even though that was not what you wanted. The OM eagerly accepted that message. And you did keep quiet when the OM spoke his plans to take over S’s entire life. Why is it then so difficult to keep you tongue when S labels the OM?
Leave the OM in the past. You owe him no defence. His actions and words are his own responsibility. And you did accept the spoken and unspoken assaults on Stanley’s honour from you and the OM for two years.


If you say: “That is not the same”, I do agree. You owe loyalty to S, your husband, and you never owed anything to the OM.

Make this Recovery a competition between S and yourself in how much respect and honour you can give each other. That would be a much better focus!

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: Frank57 ]</small>

Frank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I so understand what you are saying. I see all that now, before I did not. I can how something that affected our lives so much is going to be with us for a long time. I can see my husband's fears, when I talk in a positive way of the OM. I see that!!! But like you say, I also need to defend myself,because I chose this man to almost ruined my life and my husband's. I have to think that there was s omething even if remote good about him. I mean, he is sooooooooooooo different from my husband, but yet, I liked him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I am sure my husband understands me too, even if he gets angry with my defense of the OM, he can see why I do it. It is diminishing, I promise!
Thank you so much for your feedback-advice.
You are right in everything you say!
Myrta

JL--thank you so much for believing in us, in our love.! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
We both need a lot of time and patience indeed. But maybe we can make it after all.
JL--Maybe we can get your son and my daughter together??? What do you think??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I am trying to measure up to your advice with other people. Like I said before , I want to be JUST LIKE YOU!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care!

MYRTA

Myrta -

You are doing much, much better than most exWW's. I think you will do just fine. Right now you defend OM and I'm sure you do not see how weird (not cute) his behavior was.

For him to try to "help" your daughter while destroying her family is creepy.

I'm glad you are helping others by posting to them. Keep up the good work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JL, Frank:

I think most men at one point or another have been in a position to be an OM. I know there have been several instances where I could have been one of those guys. In every single instance I dealt with a wife who sent a clear message she was approachable for an affair. I could see the allure and attraction and I can understand how many love to play this male/female symphony.

I will be brutally honest. In every single instance------- the reason I decided not to consider the OM job was the thought of making the husband look like a fool. I simply could not do that to anyone. I am not sure why, but the concept of thoroughly humiliating another human being does not agree with me. In every single instance I thought about the injury to the potential BH rather than my wife.

I will also admit that the behavior of a potential WW was a little bit of a turn off. So all this crap about we got in too deep and it was too late to get out is nothing but BS to me. I think the hallmark of OMs and WWs is low self-esteem and insecurity. I challenge anyone here to find a WW or OM without those two issues. As a result of the affair I am now an insecure person and I can see that need to be loved and accepted. OMs and WWs crave to be desired by others.

I will be frank---------- I always knew Myrta was susceptible for an affair. Myrta will admit that she was always susceptible due to a large number of reasons (some which have been well stated by her). Otherwise, she was an excellent woman and she made me very happy. I simply let my guard down because we were into late adulthood and I thought the danger years were behind us. I was also very naïve and felt a PA was out of the question. At most I felt she could have an EA with minimal physical interaction. I never envisioned that she would have intercourse with another man for an entire year. I never imagined that she would fall in love and write the love letters I read on D-day.

So I had moments of hesitation and wanted a divorce, but then I decided I wanted her to be my wife. Since I was a teenager I knew this could happen, but like all fool in love I thought I could change her. But, we all know, no one can change anyone.

Hmm, I really dont like very much what myhusband is saying here. He had plenty of opportunities to having affairs, but he always stop himself short of having them, because of his consideration for the OM. Not because he loves me, and would not want to hurt me. Just because he did not want the husband to look like a fool!!
How considerate!!!!
I think thats bull dookie from him. He should state the real reasons. If a woman that he really likes would come and give him "smooth talk" likes he calls it, he would not find her unappealing one bit! He would go for it.
But then again, maybe not, because he was not born like me, a HUMAN, that can make mistakes and not think on anyone!!
Maybe my marriage was not a bad one, but it was not a great one either. There were things missing for a long time, I told him several times thru the years, but he always told me "Nah, I am so happy, there is no problem here" and he dismissed my words!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Myrta

He had plenty of opportunities to having affairs, but he always stop himself short of having them, because of his consideration for the OM. Not because he loves me, and would not want to hurt me. Just because he did not want the husband to look like a fool!!
How considerate!!!!

What an odd way of criticizing your H...

He is being criticized for NOT having affairs, for the WRONG reasons...

wow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This puts your H is a "no-win" situation! Are you sure this is your intent?

Pep

PepperBand....My intent was not that I guess. I just want myhusband to say that he did not have affairs, even though he could, because he loved ME, because I was the one that he did not want to hurt, not the other husband. He does not know those other Husbands, but I am his wife! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I do appreciate greatly of course that he did not have affairs. Although he is not the saint that he paints himself to be here. He has done "things" in the past with nurses when he was a young doctor just starting. But he assures me he did not crossed the line!

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

edit out double

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>