I never bothered to check cell phone bills, Email passwords, or question anything my Myrta did.

If I had been that kind of husband I would have discovered the affair before it got off the ground.

My wife never tried to hide the cell phone bill even though the evidence was all there. I have not paid a bill in years, I never had a clue about where money was going.

Myrta had full control of everything and the OM knew this. BTW, OM at times implied that I was a controlling husband. HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stanley568:
BTW, OM at times implied that I was a controlling husband. HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What's the matter with you Stanley? Don't you know that we BS are a bunch of control freaks? [sarcasm]
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

The idea of an affair as a wakeup call is a very important one in my view.

I know that in my case, it crystailized a lot of things: including the fact that I have to a much better job of meeting certain needs.

I think there are events in every life - and in every relationship - which bring you to a crossroad. The choice here, as I see it, is to let go...or to go forward to a better place.

I think the most dangerous choice is to do nothing - to continue down the path that brought everyone to the precipice inthe first place.

It's awful and I hate to say it. But..my wife's indiscretion has struck me like a lightning bolt. I know now that there are fundamental changes that need to be made to our marriage.

Stanley, along the same lines you were talking about:

My wife hardly ever used her cell phone until this summer. Basically, she used it call me. That was it.

Anyway, last month, I see our most recent bill. I notice that there are a number of calls to a certain number.

I call it..and it turns out to be her best friend's number.

The best friend's husband answers. And I sayd.."Oh, sorry [NAME], I must have dialed the wrong number."

So what do I do..nothing. Despite the fact that these calls were made at odd hours of the day - and that the OM's wife was out of the country.

I figured my wife was doing what her friend asked her to do while she was gone - "keep an eye" on her husband.

Of course, I find out now that HE'S the guy she slept with.

Ironic, huh?

Andrew: I have not paid a bill or looked at a bill since I got married.

If I was in the habit of looking at bills I would have discovered this when there was no physical interaction. Number of cell calls during affair averaged 750 per month. Number of calls after affair about 200-250. You do the math! OM was very expensive as I also paid all incoming calls.

II discovered the affair because my wife acted strange when I approached one day while she was at the computer. Of course, there is more to the story, for several months she had been very distant and had refused my advances in the bedroom. I downloaded key-logger which is for free (if you use it for 10 days) and immediately got her email password----- and as they say the rest is history.

The funny thing is that my wife always knew my email password and checked my mail periodically. I never asked for her password and it never occurred to me to check her email. I REALLY TRUSTED HER! She was like the foundation of who I was as a person so I couldn't see myself checking up on her.

TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN=ANDREW=STANLEY

HEY GUYS, THIS IS MY THREAD, NOT STANLEYS!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

DejaVu---Wow, really you admire both my husband and I? Not only my husband?
NO, I think I have nothing to be admire at this time. What I did, and what I'm doing posting here does not deserve any credit.
I have found out, that by posting in this forum I examine myself much better, because I can put my thoughts when I get them. When I talk to my husband, he overhwelms with his presence and what he wants to know, and I get fuzzy in what I really want to tell him.
Who had the affair in your marriage?
I hope your recovery is going well.
Myrta

TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN---No, my anger is not because my husband no longer trusts me with blind trust. My anger is because my husband does not trust me at all!!! Blindly or openly, he just doesn't!!! I lost all his trust by doing what I did.
Is knowing this, acknowledging that blind trust is not good,is that really going to make a better marriage?

Myrta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong> DejaVu---Wow, really you admire both my husband and I? Not only my husband?
NO, I think I have nothing to be admire at this time. What I did, and what I'm doing posting here does not deserve any credit.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree, respectfully. I see courage - not only to admit your mistakes, but to do so in a public forum and be willing to take the heat and be embarrassed in front of other people. To not run away from what you did, and to try and make it right. These are things that are rare qualities in most people. If more people had these qualities, there would be fewer people digging in their heels because they couldn't admit to being "wrong."

If you don't mind the advice, I think you need to balance these qualities you have against the past and stop living in the past. The past is about behavior - the present is about YOU and who you are inside. The guilt belongs to the past, and you've spent enough time there. How are you going to recover if you don't see the good in yourself? See what you have to offer, not what you messed up? Bring self-respect - not self-loathing - into your relationship. From what I've read from you so far, I'm sure you're up to the challenge. YOu are really a strong woman, you know?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Who had the affair in your marriage? I hope your recovery is going well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nobody had an affair in this marriage. It was in a different lifetime and a different marriage - not the present one (it was me in my first marriage.) It is why I KNOW I will never do it again, no matter what. There is NOTHING that is worth the price or pain it caused either of us. Enough time has passed and I have never waivered in that decision, so I know it is for real.

With respect to recovery - we are still together, but under the umbrella of a D that H has promised will come to pass, and sworn is the only solution for him. We are living a life of the totally bizarre right now. I imagine there will be recovery of some kind at some time - either together or separately, I just don't know which and don't know how much I will be beaten down before I get there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
[QB] TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN---No, my anger is not because my husband no longer trusts me with blind trust. My anger is because my husband does not trust me at all!!! Blindly or openly, he just doesn't!!! I lost all his trust by doing what I did.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok you are angry, now what are you going to do with it? Are you going to use it to become an angry and bitter woman that nobody is going to want to be around? OR Are you going to take that anger and use it to become a better person than the one you were before and during the affair? The choice is yours alone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is knowing this, acknowledging that blind trust is not good,is that really going to make a better marriage?

Myrta</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It will if you and your H make it a part of who you want to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Myrta:
<strong>..my anger is not because my husband no longer trusts me with blind trust. My anger is because my husband does not trust me at all!!! Blindly or openly, he just doesn't!!! I lost all his trust by doing what I did.
Is knowing this, acknowledging that blind trust is not good,is that really going to make a better marriage?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Myrta,
first of all, thanks for replying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . And yes, I do have brown hair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> with some grey peeping through...

Secondly.. I guess it's hard for you to see that trust gone. It will come back. Try to put yourself in your H's shoes. He can't look inside your head and know/feel what is there. If you tell him, he doesn't know if it's the truth or not, how could he? He isn't there when you are having contact with OM. He can only judge you by your actions right now. And you still having contact with OM is very hurtful to him, I hope you will understand that some day (soon).

This naïve, blind trust is what we have in life until "something happens". We never think about burglary until someone breaks into our house. I never thought my H would have an A until he did. The rug has been pulled out from under my feet, as it has been from your H's, and we need time to get back on our feet, look for a different rug <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and heal our bruises.

The rug is our view of life. It gets changed suddenly and drastically and we certainly didn't ask for it or have any choice in the matter, so there's a lot to deal with.

My H would rather not talk about the A anymore.. He said "Do you really want to keep on thinking about it?" Funny, just the other day in "Seventh Heaven" the same question was asked by a mother who's daughter had been raped by the mother's boyfriend. (Boyfriend disappeared from their lives afterwards.) Reverend Camden answered: "There really is no time limit to these things. She needs to be able to talk about it when she wants. She needs to hear that it wasn't her fault." Like we BS need to hear that you really still love us, that you made a stupid mistake, that you learned your lesson, until we really believe it and don't think you're just saying it to make us change the subject.

I hope you understand. The more you show understanding for your H, the more he'll be able to feel safe and understand you too. Don't play the game of "but HE has to do it first!!". Be strong and do it anyway... it's worth it, really.

(((Myrta)))

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

DEJAVU---so, there is no affair in your marriage, but yet you are under the umbrella of Divorce? Why is that? Why a bizarre life? I am sorry about your situation, does not sound peaceful!
As far as me trying to balance my act. It is kind of hard to tell you the truth. I want to live in the present indeed, like JL says, concentrate in the marriage now. But my husband concentrates too much in how I felt when I was the affair. He is still too interested in the OM. And that does not let us move forward faster.
I do not like myself too much these days, you are right. I am still too ashamed of what I did.
It is embarrasing to vent the affair right here yes, I wonder, wow, they probably think I am this callous,bad woman, with no regards to no one. But I dont think I am. The affair just happened, it creeped into my life, I was in before I realize it. One day I told myself,"I am having an affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But I could not stop it then! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I do admit I was wrong yes, but I admit it with some reservations, because Like I told TMCM, and JL,and others, I dont want to have all the responsability of it. But, I should, shouldn't I?

Thanks for your words of encouragement!

MYRTA

TMCM---I really dont want to become an angry bitter woman. I see those kinds of people everywhere, and it is not a pretty sight. Those people are so negative that they push goodness away from them. But sometimes I see myself,becoming that way. Angry, that I was in this affair. angry, that my husband found me out,angry because I did not stop the affair, before that happenning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> And many times I stopped it, but like some kind of "fix" I got pulled in again.
I do want to use the affair, as a "wake up call"
as a reason to make my marriage better, more exciting, more loving, with more understaning and communication. But I am finding out that it is easier say than done. It is hard to make all those commimenments,because you feel so strange, because my husband is looking at me with distrust.
The thing about "blind trust" is that, thats the trust that my husband wants back!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
MYRTA

Myrta


I see you are talking a lot about trust. This may come to you as a surprise, but immediately after D-day I was not dealing with trust issues. I was wounded and I trusted that you would cut off ties with OM immediately. In the following weeks I was trusting you more and more each day. Then, I found very strong evidence that you were in contact with OM and you calmly denied this over and over again for several weeks. In fact, I believed you every time you told me there was no contact. I looked in your eyes and I was convinced you were telling the truth. Then a few days later I would re-examine and analyze the evidence and the doubts would come back. I expressed these concerns and you looked me straight in the eye and told me some story that retrospectively was unbelievable. Yet------------ I believed you each time you talked to me because I wanted to believe in you SO BADLY.

I still want to believe in you very badly, but now I struggle with the fact that I cannot tell the Myrta that tells the truth from the other Myrta. This is a very scary feeling and to be honest I don’t really know how to deal with it. I wish you could help me get thru this.


Please, don’t take this as a recrimination of prior acts. IN retrospect I know you were trying to avoid conflict and trying to ease up the pain of breaking up the affair. I know you had no intentions of going back to the affair and perhaps you justified what you did as a form of protection to my wounded ego. I know you also wanted to protect others from my anger. So in a sense I assume your intentions were good, but I am still left with the impression that I cannot tell what is going on by simply looking deep into your eyes.

Myrta I know this is your thread but I must say that I what I wrote on my last post also applies to your H as well [Heck it even applies to all of us] so don't beleive that I'm just dumping this solely at your feet. You and your H are lucky than some of us whose marriages ended in divorce because our WS were to far gone and the love we had for them died. Learn to forgive not just your H, the OM, but yourself as well for how can you love your H if you hate yourself. I don't know you Myrta, but I suspect that you are a better person than you beleive you are.

Stanley, maybe I'm preaching to the choir here but please don't make the bone headed mistake that a lot of us BS make in holding the affair over your W's head every time you two have a disagreement. It is hard enough for Myrta to find it in her heart to forgive herself without you reminding her of it. If this is not the case with you then forgive me for bringing it up.

TMCM:

Believe or not I try hard not to beat Myrta over the head with the A. I might have done it in the 1st few weeks, but not anymore. I have forgiven her with all my herat.

I don't even want to talk about the A that much. I simply want Myrta to be more open with her feelings. For example last night she was quite depressed and she simply refused to say why. All I got were abstract words and hesitation to talk about why she felt the way she did. I have advised her quite often that talking make things better, but she remains quite closed about her feelings.

Otherwise, I believe we are doing great. But, that is my subjective impression. I may be doing great and she may have a lot of concerns that she keeps to herslf. I don't really know. I am more than willing to help her.

STANLEY---I understand what you are saying, but your reaction to knowing that I had been in contact with the OM was as violent, as when you found out of the Affair. Was it so neccessary all the anger, all the screams, all the recriminations? After all, you were aware, that it was quiet common for that to happen. YOU KNEW, you just did not want to acknowledge. I talked with him, yes, I saw him, one more time, but you know NOTHING happened. You know what was there before DD was gone. YOu knew....I was wrong in talking to him again, I know that, and I felt very bad when you would ask me and I kept on denying. But it was something that I thought it had to be done, for my mental sake. I wanted to let go easily <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . It was two years, to suddenly on DD day cut all ties, without looking back. Can you understand that?

MYRTA

Myrta,

But, you also KNEW that continuing contact with OM would and did hurt STanley. You KNEW that lying to him at that point while looking in the eyes was a terrible thing to do especially after two years of lies, and YET YOU DID THIS AS WELL.

You chose to protect OM's feelings more than you chose to protect Stanley's feelings. It is about protection Myrta and what Stanley is struggling with is will you protect him in the future. That is the trust issue. When you withdraw and not talk to him, you are not protecting him. I know you are still new at this, but you need to LOVE him in the biblical sense as a verb. That means actively protecting him. He needs to do the same to you.

His anger is born of pain of being deceived AGAIN. The first time was the affair up to d-day, but the second time actually hurt worse, because you KNEW.

So stop for a second and see if you and Stanley can get out of this circular thinking. It is time for action, not reaction. Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I really was not protecting the OM over my husband. More than anything I was protecting my husband. Even though I had contact again with the OM,nothing was going on. Yes, I did lie to him, and that hurt him a lot, but I lie to him, because he thought that I was this completely different WW,this rock of a woman, that was going to have a different path after DD. He knows, YOU know, that most if not all, re-establish contact in one way or the other. It is hard to completely, radically stop all contact once is discovered. Remember the fog, we still need that connection, even if it is a false connection, even if is Disneyworld,lies,I still needed it. I dont anymore, not that I am completely 100% good to go, but my fog is just slight. If I had felt this way after DD,,no contact would had happened. But that was not the case, the rapids have to run its course. The flow is a natural one,we cannot go against it. And like I told TMCM, we all have to deal with things our own way, the way it makes us function better.
Yeah, maybe I am putting myself before my husband, but if I dont feel good, I cannot make him happy. I have to soothe my spirit,my mind, maybe doing the wrong thing, by having contact with the OM. But that did helped tremendously in shortening my withdrawal, because what was coming out of his mouth,I did not like. I saw him different. He dissapointed me, by his words, by his actions. Yeah, I dissapointed my Husband, but in the long run, it was worth it for me, because the comparison of these two men is more visible. The differences are like night and day. JL, I told you before, that you remind me a lot of my husband,you are righteous,serious men, that value marriage and other things, the OM is not like that, even though he presented himself before, like a righteous person. He is not. Because even though I helped him go thru with the separation of his wife and three kids, (he was going thru hell) and it took him three years to co me out of it. He wanted me to leave everything for him. He wanted me just think in "our love", nothing else.
JL....my husband would never,ever put that kind of pressure in a married woman.
HIm being so callous ,talking to me,like it was so easy, after him going thru such mental turmouil, was scary,and uncalled for. He was just thinking about himself, not me. He could care less what I wanted to do. He just wanted to have me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
So,you see,JL, I might had been a liar again, but I THINK IT WAS WORTH IT!!!

THANKS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
MYRTA

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Myrta ]</small>

JL:

Let me be completely honest. It is highly frustrating for me to get this far and to have to deal with this stuff.

I AM IN LOVE WITH MYRTA.

I ALWAYS LOVED MYRTA

I CANNOT IMAGINE LOVING ANOTHER WOMAN

I HAVE FORGIVEN HER

I WANT TO MOVE ON

I AM 100% INTO THE RELAIONSHIP

MY SADNESS IS LIFTING

MY ANGER IS ALMOST COMPLETELY ONE

However, it ticks me off to deal with the fact that Myrta is still in love with OM (despite of what she says) and refuses to do something as simple as to get rid of some cheap presents that have no significant material worth of any kind. If they have value it must be emotional.

I am tired of not receiving the reciprocity that I used to get from her. When I get some romance I get the feeling she does with that someone else in mind.

This is nothing but a major humiliation trip for me thanks to a dirt ball that knows how to say what women want to hear. That is his only positive attribute. I am tired of all the consideration for the feelings of OM and how he must be suffering. I am more than willing not to talk about that dirtball, but I am very tired of dealing with this so-called withdrawal or fog. I am tired of this JL, and I find we go around in circles and I don’t have any outlet but to say nasty things about OM. Sorry about the insulting remarks to OM, but it is highly aggravating to lose my wife to such a piece of thrash. There ------- I have said it again.