Well today marks 2yrs.Wow has it been that long? At times it feels a life time ago,at times just yesterday.

My life has changed so much in the last 2yrs its hard to believe this is really MY life!

What have I learned?...........Ive learned that love does not always last for a life time.Ive learned that those you love the most can hurt you the most.Ive learned that trust is earned not just a given.Ive learned that happiness has many different meanings.Ive learned that my heart could break.

Ive given my all to make my M work but it has not gotten me far.My H admitted to me not long ago that he felt eventually this whole thing would just "blow over".
Funny it hasnt.

Without two people putting their all into the recovery there is no recovery.You may still live together,you may still be married but I believe you truly are not recovered.

We are not recovered..........will we ever be?? This I dont know.I do know that I can not look to my M or my H for MY happiness,I must look to me.

I have been touched by so many here on MB,many have come into my life for a short while and then left,I often think of them and wonder how are they doing.
Danish,Billibob,Mammasad,pennyme,stillsosad,
england to name just a few.Where are they today?How are they?

And then there are those who have changed my life for the better.......Momof1,SwH,Hurtinheart,Maxlo3,Ali,
Kathurt,SS,SAB,Eloquent,and starfish.I'm sure I forgot many.

I want to thank MB and all those here that have truly been my life support during this time.My emotions are running high today I'm not even sure what I wanted to say....LOL

Today 2yrs later things dont look so good for me.Tomorrow who knows!

May God Bless everyone here that has said one encouraging word to someone with a broken heart and helped them thru their day.

Take care everyone
Love,Gingersnap <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on your 2 year anniversary....I am new here as of a few weeks ago and I don't know if I will ever make it through this....but I hope I can become as strong of a person as you....

Hi G,
I wish you sounded that good all the time.

I also wish your H would look inside like you did before you did that post.
How did you meet your H, and how long did it take before you wanted to marry him?

Have you got plans for Christmas?

Hawaii?
Bahamas?
Fiji?

Let us in on it, whatever it is.

SS

<small>[ December 08, 2004, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

gingersnap, I am approaching 3 years past my 2nd d-day and I have learned what you have. That if only one person is doing the recovery work this is no recovery. It doens't matter how hard you try you cannot do this alone. Very sad for those that want to heal so bad. Don't ever think that it is your attitude that is hurting recovery; it is the attitude your H has that "this will blow over". It simply never blows over without a team effort. Hopefully he wakes up and realizes things cannot move forward without his help. Good luck to you.

WOE

GINGERSNAP-WALKINGONEGGS---
But what kind of a marriage you have now?? If so long after DD you are still not recovered, how do you interact from day to day??

Are things better than shortly after discovery?
Do you talk about the affair still with each other? Is there still a lot of hurt because of the affair?

My husband and I are six months after DD, and I cannot wait for things to get "normal" again. Will they ever be?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

MYRTA

Blessings during the holiday season ginger! You are so sweet chere.

One thing that I believe is vitally important in these long term lack of recovery situations is that there are two dynamics at work. One you mention....lack of commitment by the WS. At some point, the WS must become involved in the recovery or there is no recovery. But this is often something they will not do willingly as long as there is another alternative....string you along.

The other dynamic which I also see (walkingoneggs...I'm not really familiar with your story...so don't know if this applies), is the lack of accountability that the WS enjoys when there are no radical consequences to his actions. By that, I mean that continuing to interact/live/communicate with someone who is showing no effort to change....reinforces that they don't have to change to keep you in their life.

They settle into a destructive pattern where they just assume "you'll get over it", they don't have to change, and they can just interact with you when it's convenient for them. There's nothing in that equation that creates self exploration, accountability, honesty or change. When the BS gets upset, they can ignore it, let it blow over or leave until it does. It promotes selfishness and even more independent behavior in the WS. It also keeps the BS in a state of limbo where they are vulnerable to being hurt periodically and never healing or being able to trust their spouse again.

Ginger I was so excited about you moving out....because I was hoping that you'd feel strong and independent enough to actually go to Plan B and no contact. I remember one of the early posts after you moved about doing his laundry....and I just wanted to scream!! You're still waiting...waiting for him to realize or care about how he's hurt you....waiting for him to change....waiting for him to be honest....waiting for him to give you what little time he allots for you....waiting to be hurt and disappointed once again.

It is one of those situations where you feel weak, and beaten down....when the truth is actually that you are stronger than most people. Just because you CAN endure more pain it works against you...because you are so loving and devoted that while most people may have lost the love the felt and been willing to act to protect themselves...you have not. You have endured...not because you're weak...but because you exceptionally strong...but you don't believe that.

The thing is....just because you CAN endure it....doesn't mean you should. Putting a stop to that isn't about punishing the WS...it's about doing what's necessary to allow the WS to take responsibility for their own actions because that's the only way they're going to change. While trying to control the outcome...we often lose the ability to get the outcome we hope for because in essence...we're still trying to do the work and clean up the mess that the WS created for them rather than expecting them to do their own introspection and change.

Give yourself a present for Christmas ginger and get off the merry go round and out of the chaos and pain your H creates in your life by his apathy. Find out who you are without this pain in your life....and allow your husband to choose his destiny without the ability to hide from himself. It is a strange dynamic, but sometimes it's only the willingness to give something up, that allows us to get it back on terms that make it worth having it at all.

(((((((((((((((((ginger)))))))))))))))

The other dynamic which I also see (walkingoneggs...I'm not really familiar with your story...so don't know if this applies), is the lack of accountability that the WS enjoys when there are no radical consequences to his actions. By that, I mean that continuing to interact/live/communicate with someone who is showing no effort to change....reinforces that they don't have to change to keep you in their life.

Here, here...Star*. I think you've nailed it! I believe you are talking about boundaries. Ginger you need to set and an enforce boundaries! He walks all over you for no other reason than because he can. You stand there and take it like Pavlov's dog (not that I'm saying you're a dog) who has reached the point of hopelessness because he can't get away from the electric shocks. Instead of trying to get away he gives up and lies down on the grid all the while the shocks continue. I think what Star is saying, like the doctor who willing to throw the dog over the wall to get it away from the situation and therefore learn something different, there is something more to life than this. You're over the wall but you haven't learned that there are no more shocks. There is nothing more your H can do to you to hurt you except through your perception.

Yes, it did happen, it did hurt, he has shocked you repeatedly. BUT YOU ARE AWAY FROM IT NOW!
You did the hard part by removing yourself from the situation. Now you need to let it go. I've learned here that the best revenge is living well.

Please listen to Star, she know of what she speaks!

I highly recommended Townsend & Cloud's Boundaries to be the next on your reading list.

<small>[ December 09, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Hi Ginger,

I cannot give you the advice to make it better but you know I will be here for you as we walk the same path.

How about you and I go to the Cayman Islands for a vacation and leave the husbands wondering? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Anyone up for donations? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ali~

It is amazing how we parallel each other lives.

{{{Ginger}}}}

Star*fish,

You are wonderful. You always seem to say the right things that make sooooo much sense! My Father inlaw told me to get over it! Just like that. And what you described up there is exactly what our husbands are doing. SHould I show this tto both Randy and him? Where did you get such great insite?

Ginger, maybe you should print Star's post and show it your your H.? Ahhh, if he is just like Randy he will not flinch. Never mind!

Ali~

Thanks all,you all came thru just when I needed it.

I was watching an Oprah yesterday and it was for women(single ones really) but I listened to what was said and saw how it applied to me.The subject was women dating and waiting around for men that did not call or put them off.I thought of me,my situation.The bottom line was if he aint calling he's just "NOT THAT INTO YOU".

The guy on the show said when a man is in love NOTHING stops him from being with that woman,NOTHING.
He said he was so busy until he met his wife,then it did not matter what was going on in his life SHE was what mattered,and being with her.

I looked at my life,I realized altho the A was a fantisy he was "IN TO HER" nothing mattered at that time but her.That is all I have ever wanted and HE cant give it to me.I have waited and waited but yesterday something clicked that my H may love me but he is NOT in love with me enough to be "INTO ME" I am not the most important thing.

I asked him for a divorce,he once agian said NO.
I told him how I have always been infront of him but he really has never seen me.Its time for him to let me go.

In the show they told the women "Stop waisting the pretty" because if you are just waiting around for this guy to come around you may miss the one thats looking for you.

I am not saying I need a man in my life to make me complete,I know I can be happy alone but what I am starting to see is that I may be missing out on a whole lot of fun and happiness by "waisting the pretty" on someone that cant even see me.

Please dont read this wrong,I am not talking looks............its about ME who I really am the person on the inside,its taken me along time to see this and not feel like I am puffing myself up by saying it but,I am.........a happy,vibrant,loving,giving person who has something wonderful to offer.(wow that was hard to say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Starfish,you are so wise and always say just what I need to hear.Thanks.

SS.....Not sure what the plans for Christmas are but the trip w/Ali doesnt sound bad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ali......how about you and me stop letting ourselves get beat up by this?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

SAB..I love your strength thanks for sending my way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Myrta.....I dont have a marriage really,my H and I are seperated but he is in such deniel of everything he acts like and tells people that we are still living together and he comutes 150miles to work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I asked him for a divorce,he once agian said NO.

If you say, "I'm filing for divorce", there will be nothing he can say NO to. If you don't want an answer, don't ask a question.

Its time for him to let me go.

He already has. He just won't admit it. Maybe making it official will force him to face his denial.

I am.........a happy,vibrant,loving,giving person who has something wonderful to offer.(wow that was hard to say )

Why was that so hard to say? It's true.

What do your kids say about this? Your wise daughter?

Ali,

Hi sweetie! I wish that I could claim incredible insight and intelligence LOL...but these thoughts are not some magical musings of mine...there are the real life patterns that I see repeated over and over again on this board as well as with the people I coach and mentor. Lots of things can become entrenched....including these stalled recovery patterns.

ginger,

"Wasting the pretty" huh? cute. The dynamics are slightly different for married and single ladies...but much of that certainly applies to you. The most important part....is that whether you want to find someone better, OR if you want to recover your marriage....the action is primarily the same. You must attain "wholeness", healing and autonomy to be in a position to enforce boundaries that ensure your safety and happiness.

I personally would love to see you look into online resources/forums for codependency...and unless you deal with that...you'll look for someone frightenly similar if you ever start using "the pretty".

Myrta, we have a fairly good day to day relationship. Probably better than most. But we never talk about the A. W's approach is simply more time is needed. But what I've learned is that time alone does nothing. It needs to be combined with a mutual effort to heal. That's what we don't have. AND we suffer from continued contact. Another No No. Anyway we are probably getting better oh so gradually. But a better approach would have saved us several years in my opinion. I know you are talking about it and that is a huge step in the right direction.

Star......I understand that the show was for single women NOT married but I thought I would listen and learn.
In a way I feel that the last 2yrs have been spent "waiting around" for my H to decide if he wanted to get on the recovery wagon or not.I guess the answer is NOT.
He in is own mind thinks that we are recovering I guess it is all perspective.

I guess really what I want to say to "waisting the pretty" does not even have to do with a man but life.How much more time am I willing to waist??

Yesterday I felt good,I was happy and it felt wonderful,,,,,,,,,,what was different?? I woke up and made the choice NOT to be unhappy,not to worry if H would call or not and NOT expecting anything from him that way I could NOT be disapointed.I will do the same today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SAB..what do my kids say?? My kids have very little contact w/him,and he makes NO effort for this to change.They have NO respect for him.The saddest part of this is my DIL who grew up with a drug addict father. When my H came into her life she thought he was the most wonderful man,she had the highest level of admiration and respect for him........she looked up to him even said he was the greatest man she had ever met in her life.She does not feel like that anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As for my "Smart D" she wonders why I am still married,she tells me to get rid of him,let him go.Go live,love and be happy,she says "Mom you are so beautiful and dont even know it ANY man would be honored to be w/you and would treat you with the respect and love you deserve." but then again she is my daughter.LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Walkingoneggs.......So I must ask do you feel you have a marriage?? Or do you just go thru the motions?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
As for me I am tired of going thru the motions I want a real marriage,real love,real happiness.I think we all deserve that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Starfish...I forgot,if you have time could you email me or post some website names that I might visit?

Seems I am not good at finding things on the internet,it was by total chance that I found this one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The saddest part of this is my DIL who grew up with a drug addict father. When my H came into her life she thought he was the most wonderful man,she had the highest level of admiration and respect for him.

Your H actually acts and sounds a LOT like how my ILs treat my H and our kids. I felt the same way about them as your DIL did. I can relate to this more than I care to. As my kids, they literally don't know what they're missing. The younger two have no memories of them at all. Neither are my ILs making any effort to change this. I'm at the stage where I'm finished with them. As we both recovery takes two sides...we've never recovered.

hi Ginger I seen your note on mom w rugrats to me this is the second time ive been here in a year its been a little over a year and a half since d day god it seems like last week ive been thru so much almost killed myself went to om to tell him what a piece of s--- i thought he was and he picked up a shovel to use i told him to go ahead finish me off what a jerk my wife thinks it will blow over too but I dont think so too many lies since d day I think this will probably be the last christmas we spend together as a family unless something changes drasticly I was on anti dep. they worked for a short time then i got to many bad side affects and had to get off them thats when I caught her in another lie she left the house and spent the nite in her truck said she was thinking suicide I found out different I havent been able to spend 1 nite away from her but she could me thats when i almost did kill myself ijust wanted the world to stop spinning cause i wanted off tired off this ride i told someone recently that i hate people they said your people i said i hate myself too if the will to live can kill than I shouldnt have to long to wait i just dont understand and probably never will hope your holidays are good to you

Billibob
You sound so down so depressed.Dont let her do this to you.You are a good man,a good person do not let her or OM destroy you its not worth it.

I have gotten so depressed at times and other times I am so happy I wonder what is wrong.

My H and I are seperated I doubt we will ever get back together.He is fighting on getting a divorce I guess he thinks I am just kidding around but the longer I am away from him the healthier and stronger I am feeling.

I am beginning to live again,laugh again feel like me again and guess what?? It feels so good.I may never find love again or it may be right around the corner I dont know but I do know that OW is not worth me loosing my life.I am worth more,and so are you.

Stay strong hang in there.Try posting again it will help you just to know that people care,they really do and I am one of them.

Take care hope to see you around the forum a little more.

gee I would love to go to the caymen islands anytime.
It seems to me that the A and the recovery are just like children. When you get your child into their first school you feel you have arrived. Little do you know that this is just the start of the learning process. There are hundreds of pit falls to overcome some we manage better than others.
I hope to look at recovery and post recovery as a new marriage but hey I cant even get out of the A yet.

Yes lets all go to the caymens.

I'm in! Lets go! Grand Cayman here we come! We can be the BS club! Ha ha! Some people might interpret it wrong but hey, what do they know? I know I could use the time for me to remember who I am and reestablish a relationship with myself. I have gotten lost in the last two years and I need to find myself again. Now if only I had the $$$$$$$ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali~