(*I am reposting this in the correct forum. I am not sure if this is why I only got one response*)

Hello all, newbie here. I have been with my SO/W for 7yrs. We have had some serious issues for a while. Many centered around her need for affection and my needs of sexual fulfillment and the cycle that a lack of either leads to as described in HNHN. Other issues center around location. All of her family and support is in Arkansas. We recently moved to Houston and have been hear for 8 months.

In Feb. she visited her family by herself and left our 2 children with me. While in Arkansas, she bumped into an old friend from HS. She apparantly enjoyed spending time with this guy. When she returned, I felt a different vibe than I had ever felt from my wife. On the way home from the airport, She asked me about us getting married (this was a major killer). I proposed to her 6 yrs ago. We have two children ages 4 and almost 6. I have always considered us a married couple. I always introduce her as my wife and so on. I never needed a piece of paper to tell me I loved my W. I never understood why it was not enough for her I suppose. When we first started planning for a ceremony, we spoke of the church, the gown, the whole 9 yards. As time when by, I realized I could not afford that. I put it off each year, hoping this would be the year I could do it. IT never happened. I have been ashamed that I could not provide the means to make it the most memorable day of her life. I never realized that that meant very little to her. All that mattered to her was the commitment in stone, a symbol of security, and becoming one.

A couple days after she came home, she told me that she wasn't happy and she wanted to end things. I begged and begged for a chance. She said she would not go anywhere for now. She went up last week for spring break to visit her family again. She called me Sat. and informed that she was staying there. She informed me that she had feelings for another man in Arkansas and that if if feelings for anyone else could slip into her, she must not be in-love with me anymore. I looked at my phone bill and discovered they had been speaking since the day she came back in Feb.

I told her that many marriages have doubts along the way. I said that 2 years ago, when we fought frequently, I asked myself whether I was still in love with her. I told her I worked through it and realized that I loved her now more than ever. She said that is where she is and to let her work through it, give her time and space.

She said she feels she cannot be herself with me or in Houston. That I can't be happy up there, so she belongs up there and I belong down here. I begged her for a real chance. Over the past months I started to address my issues with affection. We started to go to bed at the same time again. We cuddled in bed, we laid on the couch together watching tv. I told her that I wasn't raised to be that way, but that since I've tried it I have loved it and I have felt so much closer to her.

Now, she says she cannot give me a chance. She later said she cannot give me a chance if she can't give herself a chance. I suspect that she also wanted to see where her feelings for the OM would lead. I informed her that I had called this OM and left a message. I wanted her to hear it from me. She told me that if I wanted to talk to him, he would do so. I later called him and explained my love for my W and kids and that 7 years was too much to throw away. OM seemed a little surprised that WW had feelings like this for him. He said he thought he loved her as well. I asked him if he could help me save my family. He said I didn't have to worry about him standing in the way. OM told WW of our conversation and she became livid. She told me to stop calling all of her friends and family and to stop calling him.

I asked her to not be angry and to understand that I only did it out of love and that I was fighting for her the only way I knew how. I wanted to prove that she was worth fighting for. She told me to stop trying to manipulate the situation. She asked me what if she wanted to date this guy. What if that made her happy. She said that was screwed because the OM will have nothing to do with her now. She said that this would only push her away more. She said she told me she needed space and time and this was not it. She said she would call yesterday, but has not so far.

I realize now that I have done most of the no-nos on the 180 list. I wish I would've seen that list 2 days ago. Although, with the extreme emotions I was feeling it may not have made a difference. I understand our deficiencies in the marriage and take full responsibility for my lack of effort. I have tried to convince her that if we would just work together on this, we could be happy.

I have read the 180 list and a lot of it makes sense. I have realized that she is not coming back right now and nothing will be fixed right now either. I am seriously addressing my self-improvement. I know that as we do talk, I will need to talk to her as a friend. I need to be what she went to this other man for, understanding conversation/friendship, something I haven't been providing. I know, she is the one that betrayed me emotionally. But I know that I failed to live up to my end of the relationship in so many ways.

I know I can show her change in conversation. What I worry about is the fact she won't be able to see it from so far away (Arkansas). Not talking to her is difficult with our kids.

I have mixed feelings about the 180 list. I see that I need to be a little distant, don't say I love you/miss you, etc. She left me for not showing her enough affection and attention. Isn't this just providing more of the same. Also, she thinks that she can only be happy in Arkansas and I can only be happy in Houston. If I appear that I am happy and moving on, doesn't that just confirm her belief? I understand the concept of these guidelines, I just feel conflicted about what I should be offering her.

Can you start the 180 list approach too soon? I am on day 6 since WW left me and disclosed her EA. I last spoke to her on day 2(the day I called the OM and asked for help and she became livid).

Here's another qquestion...many have suggested that I write WW a letter describing what she means to me. Another was that I write a letter that also includes all the things I need to improve about myself and all the things I think she loves about me. One person even suggested I write a list of needs (from HNHN) that I did not meet for her so she knows I am aware and show full responsibility. My mother suggested I send cash with a little note of "Get your nails done" or something similar. She says a little later down the line, I could send flowers. She suggests I "romance" her over time.

These are not phone calls, but are contact. Can any of these suggestions be used since they are not conversations?

Paul,

I posted to you on your post on General Questions. A new reply on your thread bumps it back to the top and hopefully you'll get more replies again. That is not the wrong forum to post on. Either JFO or GQ is ok. They do have more posters over there which will probably get you more responses.

Paul,

I am sorry to hear you are having a hard time. I am a newuser myself, so I have several questions myself. My husband is having an affair, when I originally found out he promised time and time again to stop seeing the other woman and he has broken promise after promise to me. I am trying to not ruffle his feathers and just try to show him that I am still the person he fell in love with but it is very hard to not call the other woman and blast her like I have done in the past, and also let my husband know that I know he still talks and see this other woman. All I can say is dont give up, fight for your family, but dont push her into coming back to you and dont make yourself look desperate. There is a lot of great advice on this website and I am sure you will have more responses soon. Have you tried applying plan a?? Also in your post you mentioned 180 list?? what is that and where did you read it or get it?

Good luck!!!

Unsure,

I am sorry. I thought I replied to you the other day, but I did it in the GQ2 forum under my original thread "The hurt is fresh." I am still trying to figure out exactly when to use the 180 List .

Paul sorry you are here but it is a good place to start rebuilding your M.

Please make sure to read all the basics on this site so you understand the terms used and the process in plan A & B and the various policies Harley encourages people to use.

Ok she has left the state and I presume taken the kids with her?

This is classic WW action of leaving the family home to 'find herself' thats code to go & have an affair without interuption from you.

Your exposure IS GOOD AND HAS WORKED SO FAR THATS WHY she is angry at you.

As she is out of the state with the children, you may need to seek legal advice about having the children brought back & thus her I expect. I'm not sure you need to actually act on anything, in fact I'd recommend you do not take action if possible, but you do need to know where you stand legally... eg not be giving up some basic rights by not acting now .

Being so far away is not going to be advantageous to doing a Plan A. Probabaly good for a plan B but I dont know if you are there yet.
Plan A is NOT about just improving your actions and behaviour - thats a side effect - its about pursuading your WW TO COME BACK AND COMMIT TO THE M.

Some people do get this mixed so pls remember this point - its all about ending the A & then working on the M itself via counselling if at all possible.

At this stage keep the lines of communoication open, expose as required, encourage her to come home and work on the M.

Most of her talk sounds like babble - we call it fog talk - si if the OM sounds genuine - frankly be careful here - WW & Om will lie like you wouldn't believe to protect each other so dont be surprised if they are lying to you about everything. e,g Om wont even talk to me etc etc etc - be prepared for it to be all lies.

If you are lucky maybe its not ...see if the Om 'says' he will refuse all contact .... might be the rare one who really does not want to in the middle of all this drama ...Mmmmm maybe!!

If its all lies you up the ante and push for kids to be brought 'home' get court order etc BUT NEVRE NEVER tell her or him what you are going to do. That goes for exposure to any court orders.

So start reading & let us know how you are going.... oh by the way GQ11 is probably the better place to go for experienced MBers to respond to you but weekends are soooooo slow as most are off with families etc so thats why you may have got only one response.

All the best

Aussieswife & others,

This is Paul. For some reason I couldn't log back in with my old user so I created a new one. I picked this discussion up in a new thread.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2683612

I could really use your help. I read your post Assieswife and could really use your insight. Thanks!