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aanast -- Sorry you're still with us all in limbo land, but it sounds like you are doing better and better in all of this. I am very curious to hear what your next move is after consulting with Steve Harley. If you can, you should check out the posts of Elad, Going Crazy and Seahorse -- we're all in the same boat (as I am sure many others are too, unfortunately).

I'll check in when I get back from my long weekend with family.

Stay strong -- you are doing so well.

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Relate-

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your support of my actions.

I often wonder if she wants me or not. Her words say no, but her actions leave me wondering. I know actions speak louder than words but sometimes she is very convincing.

I am really focusing on myself though, but do want to listen to her and her feelings (one of her needs) without those two things conflicting with each other.

unsureheart- as always, thanks for your words of encouragement. I do feel that I'm not LBing and am a safe place for my WW to return too. I'm still working on the changing of myself part (and her recognizing those changes.)

I have to admit, though, that while I think I can Plan A for a long time and would take my WW back if she wanted to work on the M, I sometimes feel a lack of hope for my M because my WW still mentions divorce and shows no signs of wanting to work on the M.

On a personal level, I'm feeling stronger and less in pain than I was months ago. I'm enjoying my career and my friends and hobbies. Everything in life is going well for me except my M. I know that *I* really will be ok whatever happens and I don't feel depressed. I also think about my WW and M less often than I used to.

I'm concerned that my feelings of losing hope, moving on, and borderline indifference is bad for my M if my WW does come back in the far future (my lovebank will be empty.) A Plan B would not help my feelings return because those feelings are fading because of a lack of contact with my WW. (The truth is my WW has not made a true love bank deposit in a long time - because she "does not want to give me false hope" if she did deposit though, I would feel re-energized for Plan A.)

Don't get me wrong though, I still love my WW, miss her, am sad about our M, and would love a chance for both of us to work at it. I'm just concerned that my becoming stronger and dealing with my separation is also causing my feelings for my WW to fade (and her telling me that THAT is exactly what she wants doesn't help either.)

Since I haven't heard from my WW in a while I really have no news. I did call her (for a change) to see how her first day back at work went (last Tue). She didn't seem to want to talk at all and said she'd be coming by later in the week to get her mail but she never came or called. I haven't hear from her since.

I did have dinner with her sister and her husband. Her sister says that regarding the separation my WW says "she needs to do this for herself." Her sister also says that the OM is ugly. I asked her if it would be ok if he was more handsome than me, or richer, etc? She said no, I'm right, so she guesses her sister is attracted to what is inside the OM.

I also still have to make an appointment with SH, though I'm not sure what I will ask him.

thanks for listening.

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Just checking in with you aanast -- Have you heard from WW yet? Have you made an appointment with Steve Harley? How are you feeling?

Thank you so much for catching up with me on my thread in GQII. It really helps knowing there are a couple of people that are keeping up with our various trials and tribulations.

Like you, the other parts of my life seem to have improved -- my health/exercise, my career, my friendships, my relationships with my family. I think that's all you can do right now -- plus have the patience of saint. You are doing well.

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Thanks for checking in with me unsureheart.

I saw my WW briefly at my in-laws weekly bbq last Sunday. She asked me if I brought her mail for her. I said no and that I thought she was going to come over for it. She seemed a bit peeved that I didn't bring it and said that I should know that she visits her parents everyday and should have brought it. She said she'd come by some day this week. (She hasn't called or come by. In fact there are some unpaid bills she knows that are waiting for her that continue to wait for her. I still haven't called her.)

Also last Sunday evening I talked to her a bit more about how things were going. We laughed about the dog and she told me about her new cat. I told her to bring the kitten this week so I could meet it. She said she would.

That was it and I haven't heard from her since.

I've actually been very busy with work. And I'm loving it. I can honestly say that I love my job and look forward to going everyday (which has been happening for 2+ years now.)

As I said in my last post, I have not been thinking about my wife too much. I guess I'm withdrawing. I don't want to call her/chase her because it seems to drive her away further. In the past she's contacted me weekly - biweekly but now it seems to be less than that. In many ways I just feel so tired of the whole thing (and to be honest, sometimes thinking about ending it and then dating around seems a bit more exciting. But I'll wait.)

Part of me feels that I'm finally accepting the reality of things that she is never coming back and I should just move on.

I do still miss her. I would of course take her back. I don't LB. But no change from her which makes me lose hope. But I wait.

I haven't made an appointment with Steve yet. I'm not sure what I would ask him. So I guess I'm procrastinating (though work really has been busy in a good way.)

I guess (since he'll tell me to stay in plan A) I would ask him if I should keep up the weekly get togethers at my in-laws? (I'm thinking yes) Should I pursue/call my wife more? (I'm thinking no) I don't really have any other questions that I can think of at the moment.

Other than that, I think I know what I'm supposed to be doing (and I'm doing it.) It just sucks that my wife is avoiding me (almost) completely.

So to make a long story short, nothing new. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care!

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brief update-

Lately since I haven't heard from my WW, I have felt lonely and missed her companionship/voice -her! I've thought about calling her but resisted. Then I've wondered how long I should wait before I do call, if I ever call, what if she never calls again, etc.

Anyway, she ended up calling today. We spoke for a record 45 minutes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She started by talking to me about her new kitten and how it purrs loud. It seems pretty cute for a cat, we laughed together at all its antics. (She's going to bring it over tomorrow.)

Well soon enough my WW got down to the business of her call. She is coming tomorrow to get her mail. For some reason most of it is not being forwarded to her and there are some bills here that she needs to get.

Later she asked me how I was doing. I told her of my fun adventures at work, friends, and how busy I am as of late. She said I sounded like I was doing well.

I told her about how I'm working extra jobs here and there at work to make extra bucks which helps and I'm doing ok bill wise. She said that her taking away all the other bills (her car and student loans) must help a lot seeing that I'm paying the mortgage, home equity loan, etc.

I talked and listened to her about her life and work. She said she is tired all the time and is not motivated to go to work at all (partially because she is tired but partially because she is just going through the motions there.) For the most part I used my great listening skills and just tried to be a friend for her listening to her life and issues etc.

At one point in the conversation, when I mentioned a coworker of mine giving me a ride to work (because my car was in the shop), my WW asked me if she was female.
I said "yeah." She responded with a sly "oohh..." and I replied with "no way, don't even, first of all, she is getting married" My WW interrupted with "well that doesn't matter" and I said "yes it does, plus I'm married." She didn't like hearing that.

Later on she mentioned that living in an apartment is definately not as good as having her own house. She said she is paying almost as much as I pay for our mortgage but she said she is throwing away the money (i.e. not building equity). Plus she has to wait for the landlord to fix things, as well as continuing to have parking spot issues.

She added that in June she will buy her own place and not longer rent when her lease is up. She told me to be ready for June because that is when she will need her money from the house. I just listened and told her I understand what she is saying.

Later she said that on Friday she is having her first "get together" at her apartment. I (in typical aanast2 witty fashion) asked her what time I should be there! (knowing full well that I'm not invited) and she said it was just for "the girls" (her friends and coworkers.) I told her to have fun.

Towards the end of the conversation, when she asked me how I was doing, I said I missed her. Then I dared to say I love you (even though I knew full well she gets frustrated when I tell her that.) She said that I shouldn't say that, she has been gone since February, and I need to get on with my life without her and not just sit around the house hoping and feeling sorry for myself. She added that when she visits tomorrow that I shouldn't bring candy, flowers, or roll the red carpet out for her.

I got a bit frustrated at her saying those things. I told her that obviously I *am* living my life without her! I added while I do have hope and am working on changing and making myself a better person, I'm not sitting around pathetically as she implies.

Then I said if anything she should bring me candy and flowers!!! I didn't want to come across too angry (unsafe) or anything so I quickly &jokingly added that I especially like chocolate with carmel, like those caramellos and if she'd bring some tomorrow that would be great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway, I enjoyed hearing from her. It actually sparked my interest for her more (as I mentioned not hearing from her was making me a bit resentful and indifferent.) She didn't mention OM or divorce but her tone was similar to how it has been for some time. No change on her part.

Well, I'm going to bed but just wanted to post (for anyone listening and for myself as a journal of sorts.)

We'll see what happens tomorrow afternoon when/if she comes by.

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Hello aanast -- On the whole it does sound positive. You talked for 45 minutes (she could have called and simply asked/need to pick up my mail and ended it at that). She is still asking you how you are doing. She is going to bring her kitten over. She is able to joke with you.

I have to keep reminding myself that it really is baby steps toward even being able to spend real time together. It sounds from what you have posted as if she is "warming" up to you. She no longer brings up divorce. The warning about the house is a lot calmer than it was a few months ago when she was getting angry with you for not agreeing immediately to sell.

It also sounds as if she is getting a bit of a dose of reality being in that apartment.

Stay strong. You really seem to be doing well. I am also glad to see you posting to others as well, especially Toro since he's about to embark on a separation and try and plan A. I think you have good advice.

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Hi unsureheart,

Thanks for the reply. I feel that I am doing great (regardless of how my WW acts.) I do hope to post more to others and help (if I can) too.

You're right about my WW spending more time and seeming more interested in me. She could have cut the conversation short (like when I would call her) but she seemed interested in me. Even though we rarely talk or see each other (rarely=1 to 2 weeks) when we do now it seems to be for longer periods of time and to be positive/promising.

From her point of view though, she just wants to be friends with me and according to her that is all we ever should have been.

As for how today went, my WW came by much later than she said she would (6pm instead of 4pm). She did call and tell me though. Our time was limited though because she wanted to get back to her place to watch a show live on TV (plus a friend of mine was coming over and she didn't want to be around.)

She was only over for about an hour. Her kitten went nuts running all over the house. It was fun and we laughed watching her antics.

My WW went through her mail and we chatted and ate some dinner. Things were definately on a friendly level. I have to agree (especially thinking about baby steps) that we are more friendly with each other these days than a few months ago (although in some ways it seems a bit fake.)

Anyway, my friend came by at 7pm and my WW originally planned on leaving before he came by because she thought it would be awkward (even though this friend knew her since the 1st grade and we've all known each other since the 4th grade!)

She didn't leave though. When he rang the doorbell, she seemed to panic a bit. She asked me if he knew what was happening with us. I said that he knows we are having problems (something she has asked me countless times about him and my other friends and family, but somehow she forgets that she's asked me already or forgets my response.) She asked if he knows we are separated. I said of course, he has been over here a few times and knows you are not living here. She then asked if he knew more than that. I said well he can guess.

She apologized for it being an awkward situation. I told her that I didn't feel awkward at all and I was glad she was here and it was good seeing her.

My friend didn't know my WW would be there and he seemed a bit awkward. Later (when she left) we spoke and he said it was weird to be chatting like everything was ok between us even though he knows they aren't. I thanked him for being on his best behavior (in the past he and other friends and family of mine have gotten upset about my WW's actions because they want to protect me) and reminded him that we are still married. He did, however, point on out that she hasn't filed for divorce which is a good sign.

Overall, I think it was a good for my WW to see that my close friends are civil towards her (possibly adding to her view of me as a "safe" choice - I'm not some bitter BS who complains to all my friends who bad mouth her or anything.)

My WW told me that she was expecting concert tickets in the mail and asked me to look for them and drop them off at her parents asap. I said sure.

Later in the evening my friend and I talked about my Plan A and possible B someday. He asked me when I make the move to B and I said I don't know but I guess I will know when the time comes.

We also talked about the idea/feeling of closure. I told him that everytime I see my WW now I think of it as it being the last time I may ever see her again and think of it as a closure in a way. It is very true actually. Every time I see her (tonight for example) may vewy well be the last time. I hope not but who knows, anything could happen, she may divorce me, I may need to go to plan B before I see her again.

As I said goodbye to my WW before she drove away, we talked about the neighborhood. She said it always made her feel old (it is very quiet) but she said she wanted that at the time. I told her I love the neighborhood but would consider moving to another state or country (something she always wanted to do.) She said that at one time she would have liked that but not anymore. I told her "who knows what the future holds, anything could happen" and left it at that.

take care.

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OK, nothing new from me (i.e. my WW hasn't called or visited) but I have to say that I've been hearing this new U2 song ("Electrical Storm") a lot lately and the lyrics seem very fitting so I thought I'd post them:

The sea it swells like a sore head
And the night it is aching
Two lovers lie with no sheets on their bed
And the day it is breaking

On rainy days we'd go swimming out
On rainy days, swimming in the sound
On rainy days we'd go swimming out

You're in my mind all of the time
I know that's not enough
If the sky can crack, there must be some way back
For love and only love

Car alarm won't let ya back to sleep
You're kept awake dreaming some else's dream
Coffee is cold, but it'll get you through
Compromise, that's nothing new to you

Let's see colors that have never been seen!
Let's go to places no one else has been!

You're in my mind all of the time
I know that's not enough
Well if the sky can crack, there must be some way back
To love and only love

Electrical Storm Electrical Storm Electrical Storm
Baby don't cry

It's hot as hell, honey in this room
Sure hope the weather will break soon
The air is heavy, heavy as a truck
We need the rain to wash away our bad luck

Well if the sky can crack, there must be some way back
For love and only love

Electrical Storm Electrical Storm Electrical Storm

Baby don't cry Baby don't cry Baby don't cry
Baby don't cry

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Here's a brief (is anything brief with me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) :

I debated whether or not to go to my in-laws tonight for the usual sunday night dinner. My mother-in-law called me 3 times and my brother-in-law (and longtime childhood friend) called me once to remind me. I wanted to go because I miss them and enjoy their company, the meal of course is always great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , and I want to see my WW.

At the same time, I didn't want to go because it would bring up painfully obvious to me - that my M is in limbo, etc. Lately, I've been keeping so busy with work etc. that I'm trying to take my mind off things to dull the pain. I'm thinking that that is also why many BS want to go to Plan B earlier than they should (i.e. to escape the pain. However, having said that, it is weird with me. When I don't talk to my WW I start worrying and feeling down but now when I do I feel better - I guess I just love even hearing the sound of her voice? who knows, I'm crazy I know.)

Anyway, I decided to go. However, my WW was not at the bbq. It turns out that she has a cold and stayed at her apartment all day. I chatted with the family, they showed me their support as usual. We made plans for later in the week (b-day dinner for my other bro-in-law and apple picking next Sunday.) I was a bit sad when I left there just because I was feeling sorry for myself really.

When I got home I decided to call my W. I usually don't call her (on purpose) and let her call me (as I don't want to seem desperate and pushy) but I figured it had been awhile since we last spoke/saw each other and I hadn't called her in ages so it would be natural and I wouldn't seem pathetic or needy to her (but rather just concerned and loving). I asked her how she was doing, hoped she felt better, gave her advice on drinking plenty of fluids/chicken noodle soup etc. We chatted about all kinds of stuff like how things were going such as her cat, my dog, our families, our jobs.

Some interesting (minor?) points:

When I mentioned my uncle (from England) will be visiting my mom and family, my wife apologized. I asked for what? She said she's sorry that I'll be put in the situation when he asks me about her and/or wonders where she is.

My wife also mentioned that the other day she was at the store with her dad and didn't have her credit card on her, so she used our joint account to buy something (only like $27 or something.) She said she would deposit it back tomorrow along with $100 of her contribution to the car insurance (as she has been doing because she has the new car we got in January.) That (besides her own student loans and cell phone) is all she contributes towards the family (house) bills. I pay all the rest.

I'm not sure what to think about the money thing. I've considered getting my own separate account in the past (especially over the summer when she was raging about money all the time), but since lately she's been calm about things, I've kinda put it off. Some people have recommended I do, and some have warned me to consult with a lawyer first. I'd have to also switch our home equity automatic withdrawals and other payments to my own account. That isn't much of a hassle, but if we do end up divorcing, I don't want to screw myself over by doing or not doing something financially now.

Actually, though, I have to admit that I honestly don't care that much about the money thing. People (especially my family and her family) get pissed off at me when I say that. But it's the truth. Money doesn't matter that much to me. Heck, I'm a teacher! Sure, I'll admit that if things don't work out for my WW and I, it would be great if financially I ended up ok. But if I lose everything, I can always make more money someday. None of my friends owned their own homes at 23 or now at 27. Then again, none of them are married or close to being married. Ok, I'm rambling here, but my point is I'd rather be happily married in a cardboard box, than have all the money in the world and be in my situation now (not that I have much money at all right now).

Hmmm... having all the money in the world would be pretty cool though. At least for a few days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway back to my summary of my conversation with my wife. Overall, our talk was brief tonight. I would say the conversation lasted a good 20 minutes or so. I ended it first. We kinda just were running out of things to talk about. I mean what can you talk about really? Catching up on what has happened is one thing but when you are done with that, then what? You can't talk about future plans together (like you had in the past.) You don't want to bring up stuff that will just be an LB. hmmm...

Anyway, it made me feel good to talk to her as I really do/did miss her and am concerned about her (breadcrumbs or not.) The conversation was pleasant and we talked like we were old friends catching up on things. No talk of A, D, M, OM, OR, LMNOP, or QRSTUV <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She also thanked me for calling her at the end of our conversation.

Hopefully this is just one of many babysteps in the right direction.

just felt like rambling tonight... thanks for reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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You seem such a nice, solid guy. But women fall in love with criminals; there's no logic to it. From what you say, the OM comes accross as a jolly old loveable chap.

Work out and put on some muscles; buy some new clothes; get a new car. I dunno, just some ideas on things you can do, if only to take your mind off her.

I am sorry that you are missing her and for your pain.

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Hi relate-

Thanks for your reply.

quote------------------------------------------
You seem such a nice, solid guy. But women fall in love with criminals; there's no logic to it.
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Thanks for the compliment. You know, I've heard that many times about women falling for bad dudes. (and nice guys finish last too.)

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From what you say, the OM comes accross as a jolly old loveable chap.
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I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic here or basing this off of what my WW thinks.

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Work out and put on some muscles; buy some new clothes; get a new car. I dunno, just some ideas on things you can do, if only to take your mind off her.
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Actually my mind has been on her less and less to tell the truth. I start feeling guilty about it actually. I am honestly really enjoying much of the rest of my life (and I'm busy too) that I don't think about her and our situation. I feel guilty because

1. I think maybe I'm denying/burying my feelings and perhaps not dealing with things that way I should, and

2. I'm getting over her, falling out of love, etc.

I do need to get some more muscles, and buy new clothes. No new car though (it's cool enough <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

quote------------------------------------------
I am sorry that you are missing her and for your pain.
quote------------------------------------------

Thanks again for your reply. It is amazing how I (my feelings) have changed over the last 7 months. I definately don't feel as much "pain" or at least as sharp.

I did see my WW briefly on Wednesday night. I went out with the in-laws for my bro-in-law's b-day dinner. We all (the family) ate together (8 of us including me.) It was nice, we joked, ate good food, and had fun. It was almost as though everything was fine with WW and me (though all at the table know what is going on with us.) WW and I barely spoke but when we did it was pleasant. She was happy that I brought a bag of her mail for her.

Also, looks like apple picking this Sunday. We'll see what happens next.

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aanast - You seem so calm right now. I did want to make a quick comment on the money thing. Remember it was not all that long ago that she was getting really angry with you and wanting "her" money from the house. The good news is that it doesn't sound as if she even brings that up anymore.

I've also noticed that she doesn't bring up divorce in the conversation anymore.

Good signs my friend. Thanks for checking in with me on my panic post. I've calmed down a bit and WH wants to talk. I am scared to death (well not really, but pretty nervous). I told him I'd like to wait a bit. I know if we had talked on Monday or Tuesday when d-day #2 hit, I would have been a walking angry lovebuster weilding dog doo.

Back to you -- I think you will know when you start needing to think about protecting your assets. I think it's a bit different for us than most because we don't have children and both spouses work make similar incomes. I believe it would be very different for me/I would be far more protective if I had young ones at home to think about.

Take care. Have a good weekend.

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"You seem so calm right now."
I'm really have a blast at work. It is very fun. I get along so well with my coworkers and students. I look forward to going every day.

"I did want to make a quick comment on the money thing. Remember it was not all that long ago that she was getting really angry with you and wanting "her" money from the house. The good news is that it doesn't sound as if she even brings that up anymore."

Well, it is good news in that it doesn't panic me or LB me. However, looking back (and trying to see things from her point of view) I think she was more angry over the summer because 1) she was living at home and her mom was giving her hell and 2) the money thing worried her because she was concerned about all her expenses getting an apartment and all the things that go with it

Now, she isn't as worried about money (things are settled down for her since she has been in her apartment since August and since she isn't living under the same roof as her mom, their relationship has improved slightly.)

So we'll see when her lease is up in June as to what happens (God I don't want to wait that long.)

I've also noticed that she doesn't bring up divorce in the conversation anymore.

True, that is a good sign I guess.

"I know if we had talked on Monday or Tuesday when d-day #2 hit, I would have been a walking angry lovebuster weilding dog doo."
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> deservedly so!

somtimes I wonder if all this crap is worth it. if trust and love can return someday, that great but that seems so far away and such a huge IF. alas, I (we all) still wait.

"Back to you -- I think you will know when you start needing to think about protecting your assets. I think it's a bit different for us than most because we don't have children and both spouses work make similar incomes. I believe it would be very different for me/I would be far more protective if I had young ones at home to think about."
true. good point about the kids. If I had children, I would be way more angry because of the natural protective instinct I think.

"Take care. Have a good weekend."
you too. seriously have a *good* one! you deserve it.

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"quote------------------------------------------
From what you say, the OM comes accross as a jolly old loveable chap.
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I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic here or basing this off of what my WW thinks."

It is the impression one gets from the description of your in-laws of him as ugly, the fact that he is a janitor (!), the 'tu gordo' phrase etc. and that your wife must have found something to love in him. She's certainly going for the opposite end of the spectrum, isn't she? Seems like a 'Lady Chatterly's Lover" kind of thing.

- Relate

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damn, my whole post was just deleted! I hate that.

anyway, here we go again. Thanks relate for your reply.

my update - my WW bails on apple picking with her parents on Sunday, seems upset that I'm going (she didn't know.) later that night at dinner she shows up at her parents and things seem cordial and friendly.

today she calls out of the blue, wants to make sure i'm cool with the bank account separating, giving her share of the house, the car, her belongings, etc.

then she tells me she has hired a lawyer with a retainer of $3500 and the lawyer is drafting the diovorce papers on Monday the 14th.

I get upset, cry, ask her why. she doesn't have a good answer. Finally she says because her feelings for me faded, I didn't respond to her letting me know, her feelings grew for someone else.

I asked her why she can't give the man she loved, of all the most deserving people in the whole world, her own husband, one chance. no response for awhile. finally, she says she can't.

we go around the same bs reasons she has been saying all along. I'm more than a bit upset. I feel i'm on the fu(king rollercoaster again.

at some point she said she didn't file earlier because she couldn't bring herself to break my heart. She said she cried looking through the phone book for lawyers. She feels sorry for me, is sorry.

i told her it wasn't good enough. she broken my heart continues to, and doesn't have to do this. I told her I felt sorry for her. She asked me why, I told her she knows and if she doesn't now she will someday. (LB I know but I couldn't help it.)

At some ponit, she asked me if i'd give her another chance despite all she's done and I said yes, I believe everyone deserves a second chance.

I ended the conversation more positively (with chat on something non-M related that I can't remember because I didn't want to end it on a LB downer note.)

there was more to this conversation overall but it was all deleted and I don't feel like typing it again now.

anyway, the point is nothing new from her point of view. she seems a bit conflicted but not enough to save the marriage. I believe her this time that she will file on monday. She seems to want everything to go smoothly as she emphasized so neither of us will have to pay lawyers extra money.

I'm very sad/upset (i was cool and calm but oh well.) I'm going to make an appointment with Steve (my last?) I'll do Plan B, I'll do more Plan A. I don't know what is best. I can do either at this point. I highly doubt either will have any effect (maybe B would piss her off more.)

We'll see what happens monday. Thanks for listening to my babble. It is nice to get it all out sometimes. I haven't cried in awhile either.

take care all.

-heartbroken

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This is more than a little disheartening.

The text (HNHN) says that once a woman has settled into a situation, it is easiler for her to stay exclusively in that situation, whereas a man usually waffles. It seems like a woman can generally love only one person exclusively, while a man can have feeling for more than one person. That means if she comes back to you, you have a good chance that she will break things off with the other man and stay with you. Unfortunately, it also means that if she's with him, it is more difficult to get her back.

This is a tough time, especially if you are alone. Reach out to your friends and family, perhaps your church community.

- relate

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Thanks relate-

I have been reaching out to friends and family. They have been supportive. She is definately with OM fully. It is so sad. My M is so sad. What is left of it? nothing I guess.

I know I'll be fine. I feel much better today. I guess I knew this was coming but hoped things would get better. I scheduled an appointment with Steve for MOnday.

I'll see what he thinks. Plan B maybe. I can do it (in many ways I want to do it. I've tried everything else.)

In many ways I just want this whole thing to be over and I want to heal and recover as quick and as healthy as possible.

Thanks for listening.

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Yeah! I think immediate plan B, letter and all. Start planning your letter now - but don't make it too long. Plan B is an alternative to divorce, so that she can have a taste of divorce withput you being there as a safety net. Take away the net and let her see how she likes it.

- relate

<small>[ October 10, 2002, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: relate ]</small>

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Hi relate, thanks for your reply.

Well I spoke with Steve Harley today. I updated him. He was surprised I hadn't spoken with him since July. I told him that I had nothing new to report until now and also because of $. He understood.

I basically filled him in on everything from July to now...my making changes, her noticing them but not believing them, my being calm, our encounters being friendly, up to her going to a lawyer today.

I told him I can keep doing Plan A or go to Plan B.

He basically said it seems like I'm doing everything I can.

He also said I still should not go to Plan B because it is way too risky without kids.

Additionally, he said Plan B is for when I cannot take the pain.

I told him that I feel like I can continue with Plan A and in many ways the worst part of the pain is behind me. He used the analogy of a runner. For part of a long distance race, a runner feels like he/she could run forever. But every runner knows that he/she cannot run forever and will eventually hit the "wall." He said when/if that happens for me, then Plan B.

I asked him what I should do if she files for divorce or serves me etc. He said I should not fight the divorce or try to prolong things because that will seem like I'm trying to be controlling.

Basically I'm to keep with Plan A. He mentioned two things I could/should work on:

1. If my W asks me how I'm doing. I should NOT say fine. I should tell her the truth and tell her that I'm awful. The truth is this is the most awful thing that has ever happened in my life, I never want it to happen again, and I would never wish it on anyone.

2. Keep working on "chipping away at the idea" that not every stone has been left unturned. I should suggest "how about at least we look into other options together? It would not be a commitment to the M. Let's just see what we might find." I, of course, mentioned to him that I've tried and tried this but will keep trying.

We spoke about how people file for divorce because they feel there is no hope for their M. So my goal is to try my best to nuture the idea in my W that it is not hopeless, but that there is hope.

Overall, Steve asked some good questions and I seemed to be doing the right things (for me and for my M.) But, ultimately, Steve said a M takes work by both of us.

I told him how Plan A has helped me through this and I'm better of now than I was back in March, if I hadn't found MB, or had filed for a divorce earlier. I've learned a lot and am doing better with myself (Plan A really is about me) and maybe by some miracle my M will be saved but if not, I'll be ok too.

I also told him that sometimes I think about the kind of person I want to spend the rest of my life with (respectful, honest, loyal, forgiving) and how my W is not that person. He corrected me and said it is her actions (not her.)

I told him I feel guilty when thinking about actually wanting a divorce and for this to be all over with and to find happiness with someone else. He said it is not wrong to feel that way, it is natural, and part of this whole process. He told me not to feel guilty.

I thanked him and told him hopefully I will call again with my W wanting to work on the M. He hoped so too. However, I sensed that we both know that it is very unlikely and a divorce is more likely.

So basically, since I can handle it, I should stay in Plan A until the end. I should see a lawyer if she files for divorce and I should not prolong it.

Well I didn't feel like there was much hope for my M after talking to Steve (as opposed to the last times I've spoke with him.) However, I did not feel too sad. I guess it is because I do know that I'm trying everything I can and doing the best I can. That is all I can do.

I am sad that my M is coming to an end. But I'm honestly partly excited about the new doors that will open. I'm also scared, but I have learned a lot and continue to do so.

When I first came here I read posts by people who were getting a divorce and were recovery on their own. I thought to myself "I hope I'm not going to become one of those people. My marriage will work out." But now I see that even though I don't want a divorce, I can't stop one. Life goes on so I better learn from this experience and heal. So I'm sad, I wish things were different, but I'm going to be ok, more than ok. I may even be better off.

Well, thanks for listening. I haven't given up all hope, who knows if she filed or not (I'll find out soon)? Who knows when this roller coaster will really end? I'll keep posting until then end I'm sure. And of course, if we do somehow recover our M, I'll definately keep posting.

Take care all. I wish you well. Thanks for reading.

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aanast -- I am so sorry I missed your post last Tuesday. I think I was so caught up in my own mess that I wasn't reading as many posts as I usually do.

I'm still flummoxed by how your WW went from last week seeming fairly positive, not mentioning money, divorce, etc. to a week later bringing it up with some urgency. I can only guess that maybe OM is pressuring her.

I am very glad that you got to talk to Steve H. today. It sounds as if you've got a good perspective on the situation. Basically, these things S#$K big time, but you do feel better for having tried and keep on trying if you have love left.

I believe you should still have hope. It ain't over til it's over.

I do mull over in my mind from time to time whether if WH showed up on my doorstep tomorrow and wanted to reconcile -- could I? would I? I think it's healthy to ask these questions of yourself.

Please let us know if your WW goes forward with what she told you last week.

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