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brief update- According to my caller-id, my WW has called a few times this week but she has not left any messages. I've been busy with parent-teacher conferences (report card night) so I haven't been home.

redhat, thanks for your reply, advice, and answers to my questions.

"Dont' want to say I told you so but BS has to seek lawyer to consult !"

You're right. I will very, very soon.

"I would also call SH get his advice on if you need to prolong this Dv if it comes to it. Some states you could drag it very long."

He said "Do not prolong it. If I had kids, then I could say that I'm prolonging it for their sake. But in my case I should not." He put it exactly as relate put it: it will be a big "control" LB.

relate, thanks for your comments and advice:

"This divorce case, if she files, will be all about getting as much money out of you for the two of them. I won't blame you if you tighten the purse strings as much as you can."

I know I have to look out for myself and my own future (including financially.) I want to be fair also. I don't want to look back and feel guilt that I cheated her out of money that she deserved and work hard for too. At the same time, I don't want to be screwed over either.

I did some research online. I believe that in Illiniois, martial (mis) behavior can be grounds for divorce but is not considered for dividing up assets/property.


unsureheart- reading your replies is always uplifting. Thank you, thank you, thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Oh, I was so sad when I read your post about maybe you didn't love your WW or the A wouldn't have happened/you would have done a better job of meeting her needs. Listen, we all could have done a better job. For that matter, our WS's could have done a better job, but that does not mean you didn't love her or that you are not capable of it. I refuse to believe that. That is the kind of stuff the WS says "gee, I think maybe we never really loved eachother or we didn't really fit". You have a strong love or you would not have endured what you have in your plan A. Is it perfect? No, but none of us is perfect."

You're absolutely right. I think I was just venting or something.

My mind occasionally likes to think about all posibilities on things. I like to philosophize about all those different things, examine different ideas, roads, possibilities. I guess I was just exploring what love really is and considering/hypothesizing.

But, you are right, I did love my wife, I still do love my wife. My love is fleeting perhaps?
...
Man, this whole thing is so sad. Anyway, I'm not dwelling on it. I agree with what you said; thank you for that.

"I hope you are feeling ok otherwise. I went running this morning and it really did help me not feel so sad. I may be headed for a D, but I'm trying hard not to obsess about it."

That is good to hear. I haven't been doing as much running as I should. My excuse is that I don't like to run alone. I'm probably going to actually join a gym my friend religiously works out at (rather than the occasionally going to work out with him that I have been doing.) I, too, am not obsessing over a D (especially compared to the obsessing I used to do about this whole thing months ago.)

"You said you are a teacher. What grade do you teach? What do you like about teaching? My mom was a teacher and I've always wondered whether that was something I would enjoy. I imagine that teachers need to have incredible patience. Something you've exhibited throughout this experience."

I teach English literature at the high school level. This year I'm teaching freshmen and juniors. I actually don't like teaching, I love it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Why? Too many reasons to list. The number one reason is the students. Helping them learn, seeing the light bulb go off in their head, getting them to think about life issues and debating/discussing their views, opening their minds to ideas they haven't considered, guiding them through those rough teenage years, and, of course, having fun, joking, laughing, making learning fun, story telling, and also trying to be someone they can talk to, listening to what is going on in their life. I'd like to think I'm making a difference in their lives and everyone's future. I could go on and on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I also get along famously with my coworkers and well as love poetry and literature.

As for patience, thanks for the compliment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It actually comes pretty naturally for me. It is really hard for something to bother me/anger me. I'm very easy going I guess. As they say, life is too short not to enjoy it. Many people get very angry about such little things, and when they look back they realize how foolish they were to let something bother them and stress them out. It's not worth it. I don't like stress and I don't really get stressed.

OK, I'll stop patting myself on the back now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Actually, this whole ordeal has pushed me to my limits and past them. It has also put a lot of things about life and love and relationships into perspective.

As Steve Harley put it to me, the amount of learning that one goes through from this experience is huge.

Hope all is well and contiues to get better.

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upon further reflection, I think I have just been letting my WW's words get to me. She has said all along that it could never work between us because I just am not capable of loving her the way she needs to be loved (but OM can.) I know that is complete bullsh!t but I guess I couldn't help bu think about it anyway.

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Hi aanast,

I have never posted to you before. I am also counseling with SH and in the midst of a plan A. What is also interesting, is that I have my degree in Eng. Lit...and would like nothing better than to be teaching Eng. at the highschool level. It is the place I will go soon....I know it in my heart.

I have been married for twenty years. I have been on this board for a good while now. From your byline, it appears that you have been in a Plan A for seven months. I'm curious about what kind of timeframe you have in mind before moving to Plan B. What does Steve say? Plan A is not meant to be a way of life, or turn you into a doormat. It is meant to end affairs....if it is not working, what are your options? Have you discussed them with Steve?

I hear your pain, and I understand your reflections about your feelings for your wife. It is quite natural to question whether you ever loved her at this point....but I know few people even WILLING to sustain a Plan A for this long with an ongoing affair...much less be able to do it. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for you.

I will do my best to try and digest the rest of this thread and offer suggestions or support when I am able. I have seen miracles here....quite a few in fact. I know that your wife's A has gone beyond the normal time where most affairs end, but affairs are as individual as the people within them. You are taking the high road and I know you will not be sorry.

I agree that you should have a legal consultation to understand the process and what rights you have. Good luck to you. hugs

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aanast2,

I was on the same boat like you early this spring. However the NC that my WW imposed on me helps me tremendously. I am able to pick up myself and get ready to move on w/ or /wo my WW. I beleive in that I have done every thing that humanly possible and it is not enough. I proved every single thing that my WW put doubt on me wrong. SH said "He understand my decision" on seeing the Dv through. However he wants me to still open the door if WW turns around before Dv or after Dv. I told SH that I could send her to him before Dv but I would not prolong it or delay it. I would not even talk to her, I would send her to SH. Even if she turns around 1 day before the Dv is finalized, she only has 1 day to work on M. I came to a conclusion that I could make her (anyone) happy again but I don't think she could make me happy. She made me to rebuild my life, finances, career and everything else left of me. I rather rebuild it with someone else new that will cerish, care and protect my love for her. I know how much I am worth and I would never let anyone tell me otherwise.

My freind, like one signature of veteran MB said, pain is given but misery is optional. I sensed that SH already telling you to go to plan B, he is the pro and you are paying him to help you out so you should follow it. You are enabeling by continuing plan A. You had said and done everything but WW still rejects you. This is one of the condition to goto plan B. You have to take care of yourself, WW won't and nobody would. IMVHO, use my sig line to test yourself ... it worked for me in the past. Ask yourself this question, if Dv is the result and you make this plan B, knowing what you know now, would you regret it 10 years from now ?. Only you know the answer and do it.

God Blesses you -rh-

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Hi starfish, Thanks for your post! Good luck to you in your future (especially with English Lit at the high school level.)

"it appears that you have been in a Plan A for seven months. I'm curious about what kind of timeframe you have in mind before moving to Plan B. What does Steve say? Plan A is not meant to be a way of life, or turn you into a doormat. It is meant to end affairs....if it is not working, what are your options? Have you discussed them with Steve?"

Well, I've been in Plan A for a long time yes but most of that time except for about the first month, my WW and I have been separated. Actually I have not seen her in over a month and haven't spoken to her since she called me around Oct 14th to tell me she spoke to a lawyer. So, I wonder if it even counts as another month of Plan A. (I know it is not Plan B.) Anyway, I don't have a "time frame" per se. I HAVE spoken with Steve about this and my options. So my Plan A ends when the divorce is final I guess unless during the process I need to go to Plan B for myself. If my WW does not go through with the divorce, I will not remain in Plan A indefinately and when the time is right I will go to Plan B and then D if necessary.

"I have a great deal of respect and admiration for you." Thanks. I guess I try to look at it logically. If I stayed in for one month knowing that an A was going on what is another month? How is that different than one month? Now granted I'm not going to wait years but it hasn't been years.

"and offer suggestions or support when I am able." Thanks. cool. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Good luck to you. hugs"
thanks, I could use some hugs. It has been waaaaay to long since I received any physical contact with another human being. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


thanks again redhat for your reply.

"However he wants me to still open the door if WW turns around before Dv or after Dv. I told SH that I could send her to him before Dv but I would not prolong it or delay it. I would not even talk to her, I would send her to SH. Even if she turns around 1 day before the Dv is finalized, she only has 1 day to work on M."

So it seems like you are saying you are open to seeing if things could work out if your WW comes around before the divorce and talks to SH. What about after the divorce?

"I sensed that SH already telling you to go to plan B, he is the pro and you are paying him to help you out so you should follow it."
Hmmm... What I spoke to SH, he told me that I should continue with Plan A. Would you explain what you meant by sensing that SH is telling me Plan B? I'm confused. Thanks.

As for an update on my situation, my WW has called multiple times during the week (based on the caller id) but has not left any messages on the machine. When I was home once and was sleepy/sleeping and didn't answer, I did notice that she checks the messages on the machine. I guess she justs wants to catch me when I'm in and not leave a message. I guess I'll call her back when she leaves me a message asking me too.

As for how I feel, hmmm... I've been thinking about divorce a lot more. I'm trying to come to terms with it...acceptance. I wonder when I talk to an attorney for advice, if he recommends I file first, if I will. I wonder if my love for my WW is fading completely and if I'd take her back to work on things if she wanted to. I wonder if I'm better off without her. I know that my feelings are changing and going back and forth and I should therefore not base a "life decision" on them and won't at this juncture.

I also recently read/skimmed Homer McDonald's "Stop Your Divorce!" e-book that someone on here emailed me. Very interesting. Kinda had me laughing actually (the dating part.) Tempting but... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Basically, the point of his method is to be agreeable to everything that WW says (almost a reverse psychology kinda thingy). If she says she wants a divorce, then I should say I agree, absolutely. The more agreeable I am, the harder it'll be for her to divorce me. If in mediation, she says she wants x, y, and z, I should be agreeable and say "yeah, you've absolutely made some great points for me to consider. I'll make sure to go over them specifically with my attorney."

There were some other interesting ideas/examples such as a husband announcing that he was going to file a lawsuit against his WW's mediator for ruining his M just to shake up his WW's support for the D.

The "dating part" is that betrayed husbands should go out and date around. This will get WW to realize that she will lose H and will come around.

I'm not/haven't done any of this but it is interesting to read another perspective on this whole A thing. McDonald seems to guarantee his methods and says they go against most betrayed husband's natural instincts in these situations but they actually work. If anyone is interested in reading it. Let me know your email and I'll email you a copy. You need Adobe Acrobat Reader to read it. My email is aanast2@yahoo.com

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aanast,

Doing a plan A while separated can often feel like an excersize in futility....but I have seen a couple of people (not many I admit) succeed very well and get their WS back home. Then of course the real work begins.

I spend most of my time on the EN board, but since I restarted a Plan A with Steve, I thought I'd try and put in a little time over here as well with some other folks who are in the same leaky boat as I am. Because I see so little of my husband whose job and other activities keep him away from home so often, I sometimes feel almost like I am doing a separated Plan A as well. I'm not of course, but the opportunities to rebuild my marriage....are very slim.

You mentioned that you hadn't had much contact with your wife for about a month, that sure doesn't give you much opportunity to do much if anything for your marriage. It sounds almost like you are in a modified Plan B instead of an A. Is there some reason that you can't contact her so that you might make a few deposits and make this a real plan A instead? I'm sure the affair makes that difficult....it just seems like unless you make some kind of contact, you're just spinning your wheels.

Good luck to you....and more hugs!

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Hi aanast2.

I too have the Homer McDonald's e-book 'Stop your divorce' and while I tend to agree with most of what he says, I am very much against having the BS dating because the BS's self esteem is so devastated that s/he could easily fall into an A of his/her own and then not want the WS anymore even if the WS is now persuing the BS to come back to the M. This is not to say that there aren't BS's out there that could date other people without falling head over heals for the new OP, but for the most part, it's like juggling crystal balls representing the M to the WS, where if one falls and shatters, there is no way to repair the damage.

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starfish- well, honestly, I could be contacting my WW more but when we last spoke it was about paperwork she was filling out for the divorce. Honestly, I've been avoiding taking her call (though I guess I shouldn't) because somehow I feel like I'm avoiding the inevitable. a divorce. I really think that there is nothing that will change my wife's mind at this point. While I know anything is possible, I'm a thoroughly convinced that she will go through with the divorce for sure.

I will keep Plan A though during our "mediation" conversations. So, we will be talking more soon.

She actually called me at work today WHILE I was in the middle of teaching. She's never done that before. I actually couldn't take the call because I was teaching but got a note to call her asap at her classroom. I called there, got no answer, so I called her office and told them to let her know that I called. Later today, she left me another voicemail telling me to call her back in her classroom but when I did she had gone for the day. I'll call her tonight when I get home.

Toomuchcoffeeman, I agree with you. The dating part would be a distraction for the BS to have a clear head and affect the BS enough to not allow the BS to make objective decisions (re: divorce, recovery, contact, etc.) Dating is not what I promised when I made my vows and is my beef (sort to speak) with my WW. I believe she has not made clear headed decisions regarding separation and now divorce because of OM. When I have asked her about it, she has told me basically she can't work on M because of her feelings/relationship with OM and lack of feelings (motivation) for me.

So, anyway, I will keep on trying to the (bitter?) end. I will be agreeable and pleasant and keep on Plan Aing. blah, blah, blah..

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aanast2:
<strong>thanks again redhat for your reply.

So it seems like you are saying you are open to seeing if things could work out if your WW comes around before the divorce and talks to SH. What about after the divorce?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Dv is the key for me, get nothing to do with MB. SH told me to leave it open after the Dv. However I told him that she shut the door on me by filing, the Dv will sealed that door forever. I do not beleive in remarriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Hmmm... What I spoke to SH, he told me that I should continue with Plan A. Would you explain what you meant by sensing that SH is telling me Plan B? I'm confused.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was guessing that SH would already told you to plan B, appearently he didn't. At one point I thought SH enjoyed torturing me by telling me to stick on plan A.

-rh-

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redhat- I hear you on the divorce issue. I kinda feel the same way though I'm not 100% sure how I feel. I think that if I get divorced that I'll need sometime to recover and heal. I will want to do the things that I could not do when I was married. I will date around .... who knows.
but if someday she comes around, I don't know what will happen. I'm guessing the door will be shut.

yeah, I know what you mean about SH pushing for more Plan A. The first time he told me I was almost counting on him telling me Plan B and was quite a bit surprised. I think he can sense how much we have left in us to keep up with the plan and so he will keep us in it.

well, I called my WW at her apartment this evening. I left a message on her machine that basically said:

"Hi WW, it's me. I hope everything is ok. I got the message that it was urgent I call you and I tried multiple times at your work with no answer. I just got in and am trying you again. I haven't heard from you in awhile. How is everything? I'd like to talk to you. I have some new and exciting surprises going on in my life that I'd like to share with you. Talk to you soon. bye"

(btw, the new and exciting surprise is that I got lasik plus eye surgery last week with awesome results. I highly recommend it. I'm free from the tyranny of glasses and contacts! yay!)

so anyway, I get a call back from her about 5-10 minutes later. I answer this time.

She says "finally you're home. I was getting worried that something happened to you or that you were trying to avoid me or something."

I told her "no, I've just been busy and I'm out a lot"

She asked "with friends? coworkers? females?"

I said "friends and coworkers and I'm busy working"

She said "alone with any coworkers" I said no but I was playing mysterious a bit I guess and she seemed very interested.

She said "well, I'm glad you're having fun and
doing well"

I said "I'm trying to remain positive. This has been the worst thing that has ever happened to me. But I know things happen for a reason"

She changed the topic of the conversation to how my family was doing etc. She also asked about my plans for Turkey day, Christmas, and New Years. I told her that her parents have invited me to go to their house as usual.

She responded with "what about you visiting your family?" I told her that I would and if she feels uncomfortable with me being with her family that I absolutely understand and agree and won't go to any of the days. She seemed to back track after I said that a bit (kinda like the Homer McDonald example of ..."stop coming to your own defense and have your mate do it for you")

She then basically well it would be "weird" for me to be there with her family because she said "what? are they going to think we are just friends then?" I said, "you're right, I won't go, I can see you're uncomfortable" She then said "no I'm not uncomfortable" so I said "well it won't be weird for me, your family, they are a big part of my life and what would be weird is for me to just eliminate them out of my life."

She said "well I feel the same about your family but I don't go and hang out with them" (I thought to myself "hahaa, you'd be burned at the stake!") but basically I said the same thing "you're right" I agreed with her again and again.

So basically I'm tentatively (depending on how *I* feel) going for christmas to her parents (as I've done for the last 7 years.)

Anyway, my WW overall seemed very pleasant. I believe it is because she wants to keep up the fake "friendliness" because that will aid her mediation and avoid and disagreements so as to save money and have an inexpense divorce.

She didn't mention divorce or going over paperwork or assets. She only asked me about about our joint checking/savings account (switching it to only my name - not having a joint account.) And switching titles on our cars. She reiterated that she wants everything to be separate. I agreeingly said, those are some good points.

I will be talking with a lawyer soon (I got the phone number of a top notch one) and of course will get advice before I make any financial changes.

For most of the rest of the conversation, she played a guessing game as to what my "surprises" were. I told her she'd have to see the surprise because it is THAT big of a deal. She guessed all kinds of things "puppy" "haircut" "tatoo" (she told me she got one!?!) "new car" (I couldn't help but laugh at that one. I told her that I am just breaking even each month paying the mortgage and bills, so there is no way I could afford a new car) "dyed my hair blond" (that would be funny on me! but no <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) "got a girlfriend" "Dr. Phil is over?"

I just told her that I wouldn't tell her and she'd have to see. She said she'd be coming by again one of these days to get some more of her "stuff." I told her that I'd appreciate a call in advance so I don't feel like I've just been burglarized and so I can be here because I'd like to see her.

She asked me if I was still on the Dr. Phil trip. I said no, I told you the name of my doc. She said she forgot. I again told her Steve Harley. I said if you ever want to know what is going on in my head, why I do what I do, if you ever want advice, or even options, he's the one to talk to. She could care less.

She cut the conversation short and ended it first (wished I had but oh well.)

Interstingly though, she was not angry this call. I have to admit that it was nice to hear her voice and know what was going on with her (although come to think of it, I think I did most of the talking.) Still, just talking to her makes me have more hope than all these days without talking to her. It is messed up the power this woman has over me just from the sound of her voice. (that is why I believe in absolutely forever no contact if/when the time comes.)

Despite how nice she seemed on the phone, I have to doubt her sincerity. I think she just wanted to make sure I was still talking to her so everything will go smoothly for her each step of the way.

ah well. another day goes by.

<small>[ November 18, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: aanast2 ]</small>

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aanast -- I went back and read the last three pages of your posts and realized that your wife indicated she was filing for a D/going to have you served papers back in mid-October. Well, here we are in mid-November and I haven't read anything about this actually happening. I think that's a pretty good sign she is confused because my impression from the research I've done is that without children and significant assets (I don't know your financial situation obviously, but am making a guess based on the fact that you're a teacher/maybe it's presumptious of me) that it is not really that complicated to do the initial filing and statement of assets.

I think you handled yourself well in your conversation with her last night. It made her curious. Where do you get this patience? I am never that cool in these conversations (although I'm not having any conversations now in plan B).

I liked your description of teaching. I am sure you are a great teacher.

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unsureheart-

"I went back and read the last three pages of your posts..."
wow, thanks. I appreciate your continued replies and support. You always seem to say the right things to keep that bit of hope alive in me.

You're right about the divorce talk being a month ago. That was a big blow to me when it happened, it took a lot out of me, and honestly I'm expecting a divorce now as a result. But you do make a point that it could have been over already.

I do think that perhaps there is confusion/guilt/sadness on her part for delaying. However, I think she is being "friendly" more because it makes things smoother and a divorce cheaper if we agree on things.

You're right about the finances. We're both teachers and for the most part live(d) paycheck to paycheck (paying off credit card loans etc).
Honestly, the only "asset" we have is our house. We have a chuck of equity in it since we bought in in 98. She'd want her half of it. I'd probably have to sell our refinance with a cosigner in order to give her it I guess.

"...Where do you get this patience? I am never that cool in these conversations (although I'm not having any conversations now in plan B)."

Hmmm...Thanks for the compliment (I have to again say I love compliments, I need all the ego-boosting I can get since being a BS has caused quite a blow to the self esteem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> How are things going with Plan B? I'll be over to GQII to find out...

As for the patience, partly I think I natuarly have it. Partly, I feel I have to sort of become an actor or something maybe to not LB. I kinda also think of these points that I read about way back when before I even found Marriage Builders. I was frantically searching the web back around March and came across this site:

**edit**

I like the list a lot as it seems to jive with MB and the Harleys and Dr. Phil and other stuff I've read.

In being patient with my WW, I think of #8 a lot:

"8. Treat them emotionally like they are married to someone else. Courteous, as a human, who has a right to exist, and upon whom you can make no demands."

but I sometimes have a hard time with #4:

"4. Control your expectations: Reset the expectations to ZERO! Because: The first step into anger is Unmet Expectations. The second step is a lack of emotional response, they not only don't do what you expect, but they don't seem to give a rip either. "

"I liked your description of teaching. I am sure you are a great teacher."

Thanks again. Keep those compliments coming! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm sure you're great at uh...whatever it is you do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

take care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

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aanast -- How is it going? How was your Thanksgiving? Anything new to report on the home front?

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Hi unsureheart,

no news really. I had a nice Thanksgiving with friends and family. My mother-in-law invited me over to spend it with them too but by the time I got home it was too late to make it over there. (My mother-in-law calls me once a week, I guess in hope that I haven't given up hope, and there is still a chance for her daughter.) I did visit them for dinner the following Sunday and saw my WW. I told them all about my lasic plus surgery and they were all attentive. My WW asked why I did it and I told her it was just something I had always been thinking about. She said she always told me to do it but I never did it then. I disagreed with her and told her I don't remember her ever wanting me to have it done (which honestly I don't.) Overall, it was friendly conversation but she seemed awkward and tended to want to avoid me (especially with her family around.) Again, nothing new.

(My situation with my in-laws is a bit unique in that I've been their "son" for most of my life in many ways. Growing up, I spent a lot of time in their house, played with their son. In many ways I was part of the family before I got married to their daughter.)

I also saw her and the family yesterday night for the birthday dinner of my good friend/bro-in-law (her brother.) I arrived first and sat at one end of the table. When she came, she sat at the far side at the other end. She later said her sister told her to sit there or something. She did not say hi to me when she arrived, even though everyone else did. I did smile, laugh, and remained pleasant throughout. I spoke to her briefly about a few things. She was quite most of the dinner.

One interesting little tid bit. On Friday night I was out at a bar with some friends. A friend of mine started chatting with some women at another table. Then two started chatting with me. It turns out that I knew one of them (she used to work for my dentist and clean my teeth) and she (and the 3 others) went to highschool with my WW. Interestingly enough, the one I knew (who was recently divorced) somehow knew/sensed that my W and I were having problems/separated. She told me about how she left her H after 10 months (but knew it was wrong after 2 months of M) and divorced him 6 months after that. She said her counselling helped her file and her H did not want a divorce but it was the best thing she's ever done. She also does not have any contact with her H. She seemed very interested in our situation/knowing details as well as "comforting" me. She wanted to call my W at some point (even though she hasn't spoken to her in a year or two or so.) At one point, she also offered me her phone number but I passed on it. She was also very intoxicated and broke a glass.

Anyway, it just seemed like a small world to run into her. I mentioned it to my WW at dinner last night. My WW seemed very concerned/bewildered about how the woman knew about our situation. She also told me that I should have taken the phone number. I just let that comment bounce off me.

In terms of how I'm feeling. I don't think about my WW very often actually. I'm not in pain (at least like I used to be.) I not going to lie and say I'm over her though. I guess in many ways I'm just waiting for her to file. On principle, I'd give her one chance if she really came around (though I have my boundaries/limits/conditions.)

In the meanwhile, I'm enjoying work, family, and friends. My friends encourage me to move on, etc. I'm not ready though. It is fun to go out and all and have women come on to me (good ego fluffing) but I definately will not be in a "big" long-term relationship for a long time. I will wait until I'm officially divorced and then some.

Another minor dilemma now is my coworkers. None of them know of my situation or even that I'm having marital problems or separation. They casually ask how my W is doing, if I'm bringing her to the holiday party, etc... I just reply fine, and change the subject. It is not a big deal, but I'm concerned that my closer friends there will wonder why I never told them anything if one day I show up without my wedding ring on and when asked tell them I'm divorced (out of the blue from their point of view.) I guess I don't have a problem with them knowing, but at my school gossip travels like wild fire, plus I don't want to have to talk to students about it. Really it is no one's business but my own. Plus, if I do mention it, and things miraculously work out with WW, then it is just another group of people to face who "know." Actually, this whole issue doesn't bother me/come up much. It is just when I want to hang out with coworkers outside of work that I think it might seem odd to them that I never bring my W and perhaps they even may think that I'm the bad H or cheating H.

Ah well. It'll all work out. It always does for me.

Life goes on for me. Maybe with my WW though I doubt it. But it goes on for me and I'm almost beginning to feel truly happy again even though I'm alone. I'm enjoying life and what it has to offer. I'm thankful for my health, friends, and family. I'm thankful for redeveloping friendships that had gone along the wayside in recent years. I'm closer with friends and family. I enjoy my work more than ever. And although, I'm alone and lonely at times as well as have other needs not being met <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , I know I don't need others to be happy (but someday that'll be nice too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) So I wait, but not cooped up all alone in my house, I wait but live life and try to have fun.

OK, after that long spiel, how is everything with you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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aanast -- I know it's tempting to take the phone number, but I'm glad you didn't. I find it very foggy that your WW thought you should have and it's an indicator that she's still deep in la-la land.

It doesn't sound as if she's actually filed for a D. I was relieved to read that (or not read that as is the case).

Have you had any conversations outside the brief communications at family gatherings?

I know what you mean about co-workers. It is especailly difficult during the holidays. All of these work-related parties and everyone asking how's WS? Good thing I try and limit my drinking at work-related events or it might slip out as "How's Ws" me: "Who knows?" or "Ask his girlfriend" or "He was abducted by aliens, thanks for asking".

It's hard not to have your needs met for a long time. I feel like some kind of religious zealot in a hair shirt or nun some days (not that being religious is bad, it's just that I didn't sign up for this particular form of celibacy and self-deprivation/no needs being met).

Take care. Enjoy your family and friends. That is the best medicine over the holidays.

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Hey unsureheart,

Your reply absolutely hits the nail on the head on how I feel. I'm resisting temptation and trying not to put myself in the situation, but it is hard. The taker wants to take over. And as for coworkers, it is the same too. I liked your responses, it would be funny to use on of those but more trouble than it is worth in the long run. I guess it is weird for me knowing that if/when I do get divorced, it'll seem like a big shock for my coworkers.

Yeah, part of me wants her to file already and the other parts hopes she'll wake up and we somehow (miraculously) can maybe start the road to fixing things.

"Have you had any conversations outside the brief communications at family gatherings?"

Nope, I've barely seen or spoken to her. (I've had some dreams about her lately about how we hug and cry and try to reconcile.) However, a couple days after the her brother's b-day dinner, she called me about a code for the car alarm. I looked it up in the files I've kept (while talking to her about it) and gave it to her. It was purely business talk about the car. She mentioned that she'll have to come and get the paperwork I have on that and one of these days we'll have to switch names on the titles.

Thanks again for your support. I agree my family and friends have been the best medicine and support through all this. Surprisingly, I'm not too down about the christmas season and all. I'm looking forward to spending it with family and friends.

What should be interesting also is that my mother-in-law (almost insists) wants me to go to their home with their whole family for Christmas eve (as I've done for 7 years). We'll see how that turns out.

Best wishes to you unsureheart!

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Hey aanst,

How are you handling your car situation, if I might ask? Right now my WW has one of the cars (I bought and paid for both) and they are both under my name. However I am considering making her get her own insurance policy or I may allow her to stay on mine to save money. She told me she NEEDS the car in her name (title) to get insurance in her name. Is this true? How did you handle your car/insurance situatation with your W?

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Hi Alostsoul,

Thanks for the post.

I'm not really handling my car situation. I drive one car (the one I like and is paid off completely which is in her name first then mine), my WW drives the other (which she likes and pays monthly payments on and is in my name first then hers.) I pay for both insurances but my WW occasionally gives me money for her share.

My WW wants to officially switch titles for the cars. I'm fine with that but it hasn't happened yet. (I'm in no hurry.) I believe she'll need to get a new loan for her car then when that happens.

As for your question, I don't know if your W has to have the title in her name for insurance or not. The best way to find out is for you to call your agent or another agent and ask (even anonymously if you like.) They would know for sure. I'm sure they would be happy to answer that question free of charge too. Good luck.

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Wheen I read this, it totally changed my outlook. I've been posting on the recovery board although I'm not sure what stage we're in. My H was going to OW's apartment on his night shift, calling her (they evidently dated before we were married, but I never knew of her). Anyway, when I found out, he denied everything. So I still don't know the extent of everything. I found out in May of this year.
But when I read your posts, I was struct with your commitment to your W. Since my H has denied everything, we're still together, going through the routine, I guess you could say. I've often wondered which could be harder, him leaving me for the OW or him staying and acting like nothing ever happened.
I, like the others, have my own mess and probably can't give the best advice, but I would agree with Dr. Dobson's love must be tough advice. Since your W cried, I believe that she is experiencing guilt. The hardest lesson to learn is that we can't be each other's Holy Spirit. Maybe I should feel fortunate because my H is still at home. But sometimes I wonder if it's still going on or if there's even someone else. I know for sure that your W wants to be taken care of - it's a need all women have. And although I don't want to make women sound like we're only after money, we need to feel like our husbands can take care of us. Being a janitor, I'm sure your wife has wondered (probably not out loud) but nevertheless wondered how well he'll take care of her. I feel like having her parents on your side is a positive. Not that you want to push her further away or anything, but we all have an innate desire to please our parents, no matter how old we are, so having her parents love you should really deep down influence her.
I guess in the end, only by prayer and denying yourself (which you seem to be doing a lot of) can this work. I would not even consider divorce at this point unless she pursues it. But there is a fine line between fighting for something and allowing it to use you. Only you know that line. You seem to be strong. I can't say that I would be as loving if my husband flaunted his emotions for the OW in front of me (like I've stated, he still denies them).
I'm glad for your sake that you do not have children. If the time presents itself, you should tell her that you realize how frightened you were with the idea of children and that you've changed in this area. It's not something you want to hold over her head or make her feel like you're saying just for her to come home. But, if you are sincere about it, let her know how sorry you are for not understanding her desire for children. This is another great need and I'll go back to the financial support thing -- although she might not admit it, deep down she knows that having children with the OM is not what she wants. Of course, it would take time to heal the relationship, counseling, etc. before you two should get pregnant, but I think it would mean a lot to her if you somehow let her know how sorry you are in this area.
One thing I've noticed with my H is sometimes it's like he wants a reason to be mad at me. Almost as if to justify what he's done (whatever that is). Try not to allow her to have reasons to be angry with you. I've found the best way is to simply agree with statements instead of combatting them.
For instance, my H will say, "You're ignoring me. You never listen to me."
I want to say, "Well, I'm hurting right now." or "You've been ignoring me, too".
This immediately starts an arguement.
Instead, I should say, "You're right. I have been in my own little world and I'm sorry."
Like I said, there is a fine line between giving and being walked on.

Will your W agree to go on a date with you? I'm thinking that if she'll go out with you, that would be a good start. I didn't mean for this to be so long. Hope I've helped some.

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Hi bhf1111,

"But when I read your posts, I was struct with your commitment to your W."

I appreciate your post and comments. I have to admit though that my feelings and desire for commitment are fading. There was a tremendous cascading out of my love bank when she called me up in mid October and said she spoke with an attorney and would be filing asap. She had claimed this many times before but when I verified that she actually did speak with one it shattered most of my remaing hope and desire.

While she still hasn't gone through with it, and here we are 2+ months since then, I'm not really expecting her to change and want to work on the M.

So I'm commited to the M in the sense that I would probably give her one chance for us to both work on it if she came around sooner rather than later. However, I guess I'm just waiting for her to divorce me (which I feel is inevitable.) I figure she was waiting for the holidays to be over or something (she also has mentioned that her lease will be up in June so she'll want the equity in our house by then....so we'll see.) I guess it is a bit of a cop out on my part to just be "waiting for her to divorce me." I don't know.

There is nothing else I can really do to help matters. The ball is in her court. She knows I have changed and that I'm a safe place to return to. Even now, I *KNOW* for a fact that her A is still full on (she calls and sees him multiple times a day, it's ridiculous how often.)

You mentioned seeing if my WW would go on a date with me. Since she is with OM constantly, I doubt it. I also think that would be coming on too strong for her which would push her farther away. I also am not sure if I would like to either. I really feel that I'm at the point where I have nothing else to give. I'm empty. I could respond if she showed something...anything but it is just not happening.

While I believe in M, almost everyone else in my life is encouraging me to move on and get a divorce. Everone that is besides the people here, my W's siblings, and my in-laws (who btw gave me a Chirstmas card that said "we hope, hope, hope that things will be better soon" which drew a tear to my eye. I'm happy they are so supportive and love me so much and want the best for both of us. It is sad to see the pain they too are going through.)

Anyway, I'm not closing the door on my marriage and filing. I'm in no hurry. But I believe that I have done all I can, it takes two to make a marriage work. She has made it clear multiple times that she does not want to. So yes I wait. I can for a little while longer. But I'm also not holding my breath. I'm moving on with my life and living it and having fun, setting goals, etc.

As for Christmas eve, I went to my in-laws. She was there. We spoke briefly in private and occasionally in a group. Our conversation was mostly about her dogs, music, and movies. Nothing serious. She avoided me most of the time and didn't start any conversations. She also did not hug me when everyone else hugged everyone else at the stroke of midnight.

As for your situation, I hope things get better for you. I would agree with you and say you should stick to tough love and keep your boundaries. However, I also agree with how you said you should respond to things he says with comments that difuse the situation rather than ignite and escalate things into an argument. (I liked your example.)

Thanks again for your reply.

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