Okay, here's the scoop. Yesterday morning, my WW asked me if I would watch our youngest S (age 5) all nite so she can be alone and think about things. I told her that would be fine. Now, the problem was that I assumed she would be home by morning so I could drop him off on my way to work, but she wasn't home yet this morning. No one else was around to watch him. Well, I did some brainstorming and figured something out, and barely made it to work on time. Around noon, I called home to check in w/ my oldest S. He said that WW didn't get home until around 9 this morn. I was mad as h*!!. Forget Plan B... I was ready to start LBing all over WW. So, I called her.

I asked her what time she got home this morning and asked her how she expected me to take care of our S and go to work at the same time. She said she forgot about no one being around this morning to watch him, and apologized. So, I ended up not LBing over the ordeal. I asked her if she did much thinking last nite. She said she did and it helped her a lot. Then I asked her what she figured out, and she said she didn't come to any conclusion yet. I was extremely anxious to know what she was thinking, and maybe I shouldn't have pushed it, but I asked her which way she felt she was leaning. She paused for a while, and then said that she really misses her boys, and especially our oldest S that lives w/ me. She also said that she wants to make an appointment w/ a counselor because the last time it helped her. I told her that I thought that would be a really good idea. I also told her that I've been waiting for her to come home, and told her that I miss her. She said that she knew that I missed her (of course, she can't come out and say that she misses me too). It sounded like she was starting to cry at that point. I also said that it's not going to be easy for either one of us, and she will have to give me some time if that's the way she wants to go. We did some more small talk for a few minutes, and then I told her that I had to go. I told her that I will be around tonite if she wants to talk to me about it, and told her that I love her. She said that she knows (that's her usual response to that – one time she told me that it upsets her when I tell her I love her) and for me to have a nice day.

Well, what can I expect now? Does this sound positive... maybe? I just don't want to set myself up for a big fall.

Patience... patience...

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: thejohnsmith ]</small>

Hey john,
this sounds very typical to me, very similar to my wife. She was in and out from early may 2001 till now. She is still pretty much the same. But now I am strong and on plan B leaning towards plan D. She either called, emailed, or saw me in person from around 10/2001 till 5/2002 with the same story. I love you and I want to come home etc. . . but it was always temporary. The next minute, hour, day, or week she would be back with OM. So from my experience expect nothing until she comes crawling back, begging for forgiveness, accepting all MB rules of recovery. Okay you might not get the crawling of the begging, but I would definetely only accept a return with MB principles in mind.
Have no expectations, depend only on the dependable one, God.

Tofu,
I've been reading your thread and I just don't know how to reply. If any of that happened to me, I don't know if I would laugh at her, slap the sh*t out of her, or break down in tears. Man, you've been through a lot. So, when you say to me "Hey john,this sounds very typical to me, very similar to my wife", I get a little scared. But, then again, my W is sleeping w/ the OM regularly, and she can be very irresponsible. What a crappy thought of my W w/ HIM. Will I ever be able to touch her again? These are some bad pics in my head that runs over and over and over... usually just as I'm about to fall asleep, or at 4 o'clock in the morn. I can't say that I've had a good nite's sleep for a good long while now.<p>Anyway, I'm hurtin' with you, tofu. You seem to be getting pretty strong with time, so keep it up.

John if she does return, which she probably will, before it ends with him and I hope for your sake it is totally over with him and you two can begin the process of recovery you will heal. It may take some time but you will heal. Just remember she is back. One of the mistakes I made was not allowing my wife to go through the withdrawal of OM and to not cut the contact completely. It was difficult to cut contact because of the pregnancy. But in my case, she returned and she was very relieved that I accepted her but the A was not near from over. In my burning desire to have her back, I ignored the affair. I took her into my arms and we loved each other like never before. At least, I thought at the time that we did. But yes I did make love to her knowing she was pregnant with someone else's child and I enjoyed it tremendously and the thought of her with OM did not even enter my mind. I was so happy to have my wife back in my arms and to have her really kiss me not the 1 sec pecs on the lips that I had been receiving for over a year. And to also have her say I love you. Man I should stop talking about this, I am starting to feel like I want to talk to her!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways john be patient, stick to your plan b and don't worry about what she is doing right now because when she makes her decision, either to return or not, you will be ready. It is important to remember that if she does choose to come back, she may resent you for awhile for "forcing" her to lose her lover and she will also greatly miss her lover for awhile. Careful with the lovebusters at that time.

Tjs,<p>U are good to recognize the small progress steps. It can move either way at this point so please take it with caution. I got famed for saying it on another post but it is true. <p>Your sleepless nights are common. Most of us are on the A diet and lose so much weight. Also we have a major andrenaline rush that keeps us awake and when we sleep there are some awful nightmares. Not just you but if you have children, they could be suffering also. My son had nightmares and he was 6 when d/d hit our home. <p>Here's a thought. As long as she is showing confusion it is a good thing. Sounds bad but it is good. That may mean that the OM is not that great after all. <p>L.

I'm realizing that maybe I waited too late to start plan B. I feel like I don't care so much anymore if she ever comes back. She betrayed me and I want her to suffer the consequences. She's going to be miserable, and lonely. And to make it worse, she will realize that our marriage was not as awful as she lets on. I've been here for her through all her lies and deception and betrayal, and I'm really getting tired of the whole ordeal.<p>I think it's too late for our M to be saved now. She can keep her head in the clouds as long as she wants to. I'm tired of it all.

TJS,<p>Mind if I make a small suggestion? When others expressed the same sentiment as yourself, one option was to take a breather. You have been at MB for about 8 months. That is a long time to be running at an adrenaline speed. <p>Howz about an MB break, talk or even meet with one of the MB guys nearby or put your focus into something constructive that you re-energize you. Might help. Us gals like to go to the spa. A new hobby? New sport? Nothing too dangerous now. We'd still like to hear from you!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>L.

Hi Orchid!
I get kinda moody sometimes, don't I? But here's why...<p>I have 3 boys that are in baseball right now. Naturally I like to go to as many as I can. Unfortunately, my WW goes to some of them, and I have to see her. Sometimes, I can't bear sitting by her more than a few minutes before I have to move somewhere else. Yesterday, I was at a game and WW sat down next to me. I told myself that I was going to be able to handle being next to her, and i just won't talk to her. Of course, she started talking to me, and before I knew it, we were having a real nice conversation. I wasn't expecting that.<p>I think I came up with another plan. She told me that she wasn't going to spend this weekend w/ OM, like she has the past several weekends. So, if she holds true to her words, maybe i'll hang in there for a while longer. But if she lies again, I think I'm done. And I'll know it because I can see her house from my kitchen window (not really a good thing). <p>Anyway, I don't have much time to find another hobby, etc. I work, then to the gym to lift weights, then home to make dinner for my S and me, then I have just an hour or 2 max. before I go to bed (to stare at the ceiling for a couple more hrs).<p>I have always wanted to try skydiving...

Hi thejohnsmith:<p>Skydiving seems like a good idea, do it while you can......<p>All the best, keep working until you drop....<p>thelion

Alright, it seems that as soon as I make up my mind just what I need to do, something happens.

WW called me yesterday and asked if she can come over and talk. I said okay. She came over and we sat in silence for a few minutes. Then I asked her what was on her mind. She started crying and told me that she is so confused. She told me that she has an appointment w/ a counselor next week, but she’s going to see if she can move it up sooner. Then she asked me if I would go with her. I asked her why, and she said “I don’t know. You don’t have to go. I just want you to go w/ me.” I told her that I would go. I asked her if she was going to end her relationship w/ OM, and she said she didn’t know. She was crying and told me that she had everything all planned out. She said she had this dream she was living, and now she’s just so confused. She said that she knew she'd have to quit her job if she decided to leave the OM. I asked her if she loves me, and she said “I don’t know… I don’t know about anything right now.” She was really bawling before she left.

I'd like to hear other opinion's about this. Do I continue w/ plan B, or do I now revert back to plan A? Should I go w/ her to counseling even though she hasn't made a commitment to our M? Also, next week my in-laws are taking my kids with them for a couple of weeks. Should I try to set up a “date” w/ WW, or try to spend some time w/ her? Or should I let her have this time for being alone and thinking about things? Should I still try to avoid her like I have been? It hasn’t done much good because she keeps calling me or coming over.

It's really difficult to hear MY W talk to ME about the OM and her feelings she has for him. Why can’t anything be easy? Where do I stand, and what should I do… ?

Hope to hear from you, Orchid, the lion, tofu, coffeeman... anyone... ?

Hi TJS.

I just finished reading your latest update and it seems that the A with OM is not satisfying all her needs because otherwise she would have never contacted you for anything and I mean anything. But I think it's worth remembering that she may be panicking that you are ready to move on with your life and that you'll close the door on her. I would also suggest that you do not let her fear of you moving on, be the basis of her returning to you because the fear is only temporary and she'll be back to business as usual with OM - this is such a recurring theme that it's become a cliche - . You might be wise to consider telling her that you do not want her back if she is doing out of fear instead of because she truly loves you and wants to be with you instead of with OM.

Your W - like most WS's whose OP does not satisfy all their EN's - would like nothing better than to have you and OM at the same time. Of course this is unacceptable and even in her foggy head she realizes this but is yet trying to find the formula for you to accept this situation.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have financial problems due to her irresponsable behavior? If so, don't you think that these issues also have a say in whether you should accept her back in your life? After all, one thing is her A - which may end soon - and another is her financial recklesness that puts you and your kids in serious economic hardship. Don't discount the seriousness of this issue because you still have feelings for her. She needs counseling to deal with this self destructive problem before returning to the M because it has severely impacted not only her but you and your children as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks, coffeeguy.
I never thought about my W coming back to me out of fear. And you're right, it would only be temporary if she did.

Yesterday (or so) I wrote that if my W decides to go to OM's house this weekend like she said she wasn't, then I was going to give it up. Well, guess where she's at now tonite and tomorrow nite, too. She said she wants to talk to him and try to figure things out. She also said that Sunday she wants to get on this website because I've told her about MB. Maybe she really does want some help?

I'm so tired of this whole thing that I just want to run for the hills. But at the same time, if she really wants to figure out reality, maybe I should stick around a while?

I've been pulling my hair out by the handfulls! Will I be sane after this is all over and done?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thejohnsmith:
<strong>Thanks, coffeeguy.
I never thought about my W coming back to me out of fear. And you're right, it would only be temporary if she did.

Yesterday (or so) I wrote that if my W decides to go to OM's house this weekend like she said she wasn't, then I was going to give it up. Well, guess where she's at now tonite and tomorrow nite, too. She said she wants to talk to him and try to figure things out. She also said that Sunday she wants to get on this website because I've told her about MB. Maybe she really does want some help?

I'm so tired of this whole thing that I just want to run for the hills. But at the same time, if she really wants to figure out reality, maybe I should stick around a while?

I've been pulling my hair out by the handfulls! Will I be sane after this is all over and done?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So she says she needs to talk to OM to figure things out and so she needs to spend the whole weekend to 'talk' to him? Yeah right. What she is actually doing is throwing you crumbs and expects you to live off them while she tries to see if OM can totally comitt to her. If he does comitt you will see a cold, selfish, nasty person that will not give a damn whether you live or die. If he doesn't want to comitt then she can justify leaving him and returning to you but without the comittment to you or the M. I say you proceed with your plans to move forward and let OM deal with her.

Look TJS, even if you get divorced you will still have to maintain a relationship with her due to your kids but at least she won't be there to drag you emotionally thru the mud like she is doing to you right now. But it's up to you to decide if you've reached your limit of no return as far as wanting her back in your life.

Sorry for the pessimistic post but your W is still involved in the A with OM and thus you can not hope for any marital recovery at this moment.

TJS,

Ok, I'm here and read your post. REalize this: Her confusion is a good sign. I will out my take on what you have written:

1. She had a plan, now she is confused.
2. She is going to the counselor but
'wants' U to come.
3. She is not in love with you but comes to U to fill her ENs.
4. She went to OM to have other ENs filled (ouch I know this one hurts ..... sorry - but part of the healing - radical honesty stuff!)

5. U are getting mighty tired.
6. U are trying to determine if you should keep your word and go to plan B or stay in plan A.
7. This is torture to the love in your soul.

Here's my idea:

1. Go with her to the counselor.
2. Let her muddle in her own stuff.
3. When the kids are gone for those 2 weeks, you go do your own thing. Guy stuff - golf, bowling, baseball game, etc. Enjoy yourself.
4. If she grumbles about feeling neglected, don't offer to jump to her rescue. She needs to come to U with action. Not just a bunch of words.
5. Remember that when you are trying to give her something to think about, what she is hearing is 'blah blah blah, etc.'

So don't get sucked into that mess. Make sure she is the one who works on reestabiling your trust. In order for that to happen, you need to be strong. Where are U on that piece.? Also I learned and see quite a bit.....

Also be aware that some OPs and WS stage these combacks.

L.

TJS, your WW sounds a lot like mine - very confused with a huge attachment to OM. Sounds like another "soulmate" thing. I would go to the counselor because seeing a counselor seems to me like a positive move, however, I would avoid all other contact. I would definetely not invite her on a date. You might be able to have a better idea of how to proceed after the counselor visit. But it looks to me like your WW is not at all ready to give you up so you might want to leave a little door open for her. May be something important might happen at OM's this weekend. Hanging out with some pals sounds like a real good idea for you.
May be that week your kids are out you might take a few days off work and take a long weekend somewhere and visit an old buddy. Do something different and leave your area a few days, go somewhere you have never been before but don't even think about her. Okay not possible, but try!
When thoughts of my WW come up, I immediately try to change my thoughts to something else. It takes training but it helps.

TJS,

Tofu is right. He even indicated that this 'detaching with love' process will be hard but worth the effort. For who: for U!

This might sound totally illogical but you have to realize who and what kind of situation you are dealing with. Sort of like a child with a temper tantrum but old to enough to cause more damage.

L.

Thanks Orchid, tofu and coffeeman... I do need some guidance many times, and it helps me tremendously to hear from all of you. Something that I realized today is that after I read all the opinions and comments, I already have those answers and solutions in my head. It just takes someone else to help me process those thoughts and come to a solution.

I am so tired of this. I know that I need a break. I also think that I'm done with this relationship. It wasn't a wonderful M from the start, and I always had her dad to contend with. She always took his side on everything. I never seemed to be married to a W, but instead someone's daughter. My W would sometimes complain that I never show her enough love and attention. But I had a difficult time doing that when I couldn't get the same from her. Her attention went to her dad... always. And I did communicate that to her, but she refused to break the daddy-daughter bond. He cut me down when I wasn't around, and it eventually took its toll on my M. I just learned this recently. She never told me this during our entire 10 yr (stb 11 yr) M. I never knew it, but I was always being tested. The situation is so reversed now, it makes me want to puke. Her dad finally realized what a wonderful H, father and person in general that I am. And now she doesn't care what her dad says to her about anything. And he won't even speak to her anymore. Their relationship is ruined from all her crap. For 10 years, she listened to every word he said and jumped everytime he told her to and she worshiped the ground he walked on. Now either of them care about each other, and my marriage is gone. I've always been the one to suffer because of them, and I still am.

So, anyway, I never had a true W. So, why am I crying about it now? Because I know that through all this A, she finally realized that I was right about how her dad affected our M, and how she always took his side and how wrong it was for her to do that. That was the thorn in our M, and the thorn has been removed. Only now, the wound from it is causing me to bleed to death.

We have identified the problems in our M and agreed that they were the issues that caused our M to slide downhill. That is the hardest part in rebuilding the M. Identifying and accepting the issues. The next step is to resolve those issues so they no longer are LBs. I know our M could have been the M that we both wanted and needed, and could have lasted an eternity. But, unfortunately, her foolishness doesn't allow her to come back to her M because she's now involved in a relationship that never should have started. The part that hurts me the most, is that she never said to me that her love is getting diminished. She never let our M have a chance to rebuilding. Instead, she ran into the nearest man's arms and threw herself at him, saying "my marriage is awful... rescue me!" I didn't have a chance.

Now, I know she is starting to regret her decisions, and regret how she is the cause of our family being split apart, and she is the reason for her relationship between her and her S to be ruined, and she is the cause of her relationship between her and her parents to go sour, and she is the one that turned her back on all of her friends and siblings, and she is the one to make our M become impossible to rebuild. THAT is a huge burden to bear for the rest of her life. I can't imagine how she will feel one day when she reflects back at all these stupid, stupid decisions she has made, and know that she will realize how she had ruined her life, and altered her kids' lives in such a negative way. They will grow up knowing that their mom chose OM over her own kids. And she will realize all this. And it's gonna hurt... bad. And all I will ever be able to say is "I tried my best, but it wasn't enough for you".

No more cake-eater for me. I am completely through, and I feel good about it. I do feel sorry for her somewhat, but she is going to have to live with the decisions that she has made. And I know she is going to be miserable. Well, TOO BAD! She traded her family in for this OM. My God, what a mistake! I really tried, but she turned her back on EVERYONE (except OM).

I've made up my mind. She is no longer a part of my life. I also know that one day I will meet someone that can treat me like I deserve to be treated, and can love me as a wife. I don't need anymore pain, so I'm walking. My responsibility now is to be a father for my boys, and help them through this and shield them from this A.

Good-bye, my wife. It really didn't have to be this way...

<small>[ June 29, 2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: thejohnsmith ]</small>

tjs, I wish you well brother.
I am there with you.

You are so right TJS about your W beign a fool that one day will wake up and realize all the damage she has caused to everybody that really cared for her. She may have betrayed you and the kids but the worst betrayal is the one she has done to herself.

Stay strong for yourself and your kids, we are here for you.

Well, just as I figured, SHE came over this morning after spending the past 2 nites at OMs house. She said she wanted to see the MB website. So, I showed her several pages from the notable threads and some other ones like plan A/plan B. it gave her an understanding of what MB is about. Then I pulled up some threads on the forum that I&#8217;d been reading lately. She saw mine and wanted to read it. Hmmm&#8230; not a bad idea. She can see what my thoughts are and have been for the past couple of weeks. So&#8230; that&#8217;s just what I did.

As I was bringing up my thread, she asked me if I was going to go w/ her to our S baseball game today. I told her &#8220;I think you&#8217;ll get the answer after reading this. I think she was surprised by what I had been writing on here. And I think she was equally surprised to read everyone else&#8217;s opinions and advice. I think it was a huge eye-opener. I think it went very well. It was a little awkward considering that I didn&#8217;t expect for her to read any of this when I posted. But it showed her my true feelings from a perspective that I was writing these to someone else and not directly to her.

By the time she got to the end, she was really crying hard. She stood up and walked out without saying a word. And she didn&#8217;t have to ask me if I was going to the game. About an hour later, my youngest S called and asked me if I wanted to go to the pool w/ him and his mom. Then she got on the phone and we talked for a couple of minutes &#8211; just small talk. She was still crying. I&#8217;m a little upset because I was planning on taking him to the pool. I was looking forward to it, but now I can&#8217;t cuz she&#8217;s going. Is this her way of trying to &#8220;get back&#8221; at me by taking him instead of me? Or is she hoping that I&#8217;ll go too as some kinda proof that I really do want to see her still? It&#8217;s really hard to analyze her thoughts.

Anyway, I&#8217;m sticking to my plan. The last message that I posted said that I&#8217;m finished. And that&#8217;s the last thing she read. I didn&#8217;t say anywhere that I hope for her to come back when the A is over. I wonder if I should tell her that, or just let her sit for a while, thinking that I don&#8217;t ever want to see her again? But the truth is that I don&#8217;t even want to see her right now. Maybe I&#8217;ll feel better in a couple of weeks of being away from her. Then, maybe I&#8217;ll be willing to rebuild if the A is over. But I just wonder if I need to tell her that.

Who knows&#8230; never say never, right?

Any opinion on this?