One of my boys called me a while ago, and he wanted me to come over and help him set up his Playstation on the TV. I went over there, and WW had still been crying... her eyes were swollen and red. She's been crying for 7 hours.

Did something hit home today?
Did something actually impact her?

thejohnsmith,

You have a lot of contact w/ WW ... you are not in plan B. Either you are in plan A or plan B and there is no in between. You could take a break from her and that is encourage. I took time away from my WW and be with my 2D for a week, it helps me a lot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Plan B should be done... only...
...when you've put in the effort of a good Plan A...
...when you've improved yourself...
...when you can accpet permanent separation...
...eventually leading to divorce.

taken from Jim's reply to your post ...I usually add from SAA ... when WS rejected your plan A. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In plan A doesn't mean that you have to be a doormat ... specially when you 've done a good plan A. BS has to take whatever WS wants in the early plan A so that the focus in on your changes. However is you have done good plan A and WS acknowledge it ... time to put a bit boundry and start learn how to deal and talk w/ the fog. Orchid is Venusian and you could ask her for specific.

I know you are hurting right now ... I rally would advice you to pick up the phone and ask her if she wants to talk or want to talk to Steve or Jennifer. When you talk to her ... use I as the point of reference ... for instant, "I felt that way on my post because I feel that you ... etc ...". You need to let her know also that you need time off for all of this ... "I feel overwhelm and I need to be away for a while or to limit contact since I am hurting from all of this." Fight for you M, John, give it your last best shot. Learn how to open up your self and invite her to do the same. If she is not responding, go on to your retreat, go away fro a week somewhere ... away from all of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thejohnsmith:
<strong>One of my boys called me a while ago, and he wanted me to come over and help him set up his Playstation on the TV. I went over there, and WW had still been crying... her eyes were swollen and red. She's been crying for 7 hours.

Did something hit home today?
Did something actually impact her?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TALK TO HER ... even just say your concern and you will be there for her if she needs someone to talk to. -RH-

Thanks redhat-
I really do understand that there is nothing between plan A and plan B. Ever since i gave her the plan B letter, she's been calling me or coming over to my house. But, I know I should have been firm and explain the reasons for no contact, but instead I let her cry on my shoulder.

I swear, I've never been through such mood swings since puberty. BTW, this year I turn 40! Anyway, I still feel that plan B is the way to go. The whole time that I was in plan A (almost a year) she knew she could have me back whenever she wanted. But, when I gave her the letter, she realized that maybe I meant it, and maybe she really was going to lose me for good. That's when she started showing signs of fog-lifting. I have not called her or gone over to her house, with the exception for today to help my son. I did also agree to show her this MB website, which I did today. Okay, I probably shouldn't have agreed to do that, but I think it really helped open her eyes just a little more. Her reading the messages I posted and the advice and opinions others offered really hit her hard. This is what reality is all about, not that fantasy she's been trying to live in. Yes, I'm in plan B, but I still think that showing her this thread helped immensely.

So, maybe I still question whether or not I want to work things out in our M. No matter, you and everyone else are right... I gotta take a break from her, regardless if I want to work on this M anymore or not. I just think that even if she does meet the things I outlined in my letter to come back, I just don't know if I have the strength or desire or love to start working on the M. I know it's gonna take a lot of work on both parts, and I still have so much resentment and bitterness for her and her actions.

I think I need to stand firm on this... much more than I have been. She wants me to go to a counseling session w/ her sometime, so I think I should. But other than that, I really think I need to keep a distance from her. She has to make a decision, either it's her family and M, or it's OM. I can't stand here and continue to pretend to smile and try to understand. I know that I layed a strong plan A, and there is no question that she sees that I am a H that has been willing to meet her needs, and I've shown her that I can. I have no doubt that she knows that I've loved her beyond belief, and I've shown her undeniable patience. But my patience is wearing thin, and it's time for her to hop off the fence. To her, the other side of the fence looked greener... but weeds and stickers are green, too.

What a crazy ordeal this has been. I thank all of you that have offered me your opinions and advice and hope. I really don't know where I'd be today if I never would have found this MB and all you wonderful people. And to think, that all of you have been or are still going through the same torment that I am. There are so much pain... but fortunately, there is also hope and healing.

Thanks, everyone of you.

Dear John:
I was reading some of your posts and feel that your situation is the closest to mine.(but I didnt start smoking, my H did though) My in-laws always rejected me, now I am an angel. My father-in-law is dying and my H keeps asking me to call him because he loves me. I told my H that I am not in the family anymore and he got mad and said that I was. I reminded him that he took the OW to Brazil with him to meet his family.
I have been Plan A'ing for a year now. I think my H wont leave the OW because he has no one but her. He also doesnt live with her because he hates her 3 kids but lives in this honeymoon fantasy.
I feel the same as you right now. My love is totally empty for him and I feel I want to move on. I can't divorce him for another year because we are waiting for the green card, I am from Canada. Now I can only move on emotionally.
My husband has been crying a lot since he left. He keeps wanting to talk about our marriage issues and when he comes in the house, tells me he misses the family, misses the house, is so miserable, so lost,but he won't break up with the OW either. I have had it.
I might be the only one telling you this but I think you should not go to your W's councelling. This may make her think that you are hanging on, unless you are going there to improve Plan A but you are in Plan B. She already knows that you will do everything to restore the marriage if she just does her part to end the A. I think it is pointless to go to councelling with her. I did go to councelling one month ago with my H, he was still so much in the fog, said for the first time he wanted a divorce and that he had moved on. He believes the love can never come back. He says he wants a relationship where there is a constant spark. After the session, he got mad at me and said everyone was against him and no one understands how he feels. It was a waste of time, Plan B is the answer. If she wants councelling, let her go herself. If the councellor wants to talk to you, talk alone with him, not with her. Until she is ready to commit to her marriage and family, there is no sense to have councelling together unless it is issues with the children. I did it and I just got hurt.
Another thing, don't be totally transparent with your W. Don't show her every little feeling you have. Keep it a secret. Don't show her your pain. The best revenge is to show her that life goes on without her, and you will be happy. Don't let her ruin your happiness. She is not worth it. Life is too short. I now have amazing friends who are like my sisters, in the same situation as me, I wouldnt trade them for the world. Are you now closer to your kids?
Believe me, she is feeling the pain especially to be rejected from her father. She needs to hit rock bottom.
I wouldnt want my H to read all the comments I have here. He would probably be very angry. I did send him some reading material from here but of course, that meant nothing to him.
He called last night and asked if I watched the World Cup soccer game. We have a big screen TV and he said he would of like to be here at the house to watch it and he acted like he didnt have the best of time. He always tries to portray to me that his life with his girlfriend isnt a bed of roses. He has lied sooooo much to me that I don't trust anything he says. I see him as a selfish, non-giving heartless dirty man. That is not good, is it? Thinking of touching him in a sexual way just makes me sick.
My H also never told me there was a problem in our M. He never gave me a chance. I knew there were problems in our M. He was so angry all the time, never talked, just seemed to find everything wrong with me. I didnt know how to deal with it and I ended up keeping my distance to avoid confrontation but now I realize that he needed my love and affection. I never once refused his affection.
I am planning to have a talk with him again so he understands what "NO CONTACT" means. We just have to keep at it, dont we, John? I sometimes wonder if it is too late for reconciliation, my hope is gone.... Take care, Kim....

TJS I hate to say this but your W is afraid and she's crying her eyes out because her little fantasy life of having a H waiting for her and a lover on the side will be ending soon. If her lover satisfied all of her EN's, she would have filed for divorce a long time ago and would not even talk to you again, but because that is not the case, she is like a lot of WS that can not committ to one or the other and bides her time in the hope that both you and OM will grow tired and give up in demanding that she choose one or the other, and just accept the present situation. I wouldn't be surprised if OM is getting just as fed up as you are and is ready to leave her for good. Now wouldn't it be ironic that by trying to keep two men she ends up losing both of them?

Go to her to counseling but don't expect anything from her by doing so. Do it with the hope that it will benefit your children by having her get better but not because it will magically transform her into the W of your dreams.

Good luck and keep on posting.

I have to say I thought only woman went through this hell! I told my H that if we divorce I would never be able to trust another man because of the infidelity on his part. You give me hope that there are men out there who love their spouses. I hope she stops messing with your head and wish you the best... she is going to lose a good thing if she carries on!!!

tjs & mf,

You could be in plan A but not catering to their ENs ... again Orchid is expert on this. However she is very strong woman emotionally, I can not do it myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ... I have to be in plan B. I really do understand for both of you to be in plan B. With children, contact is unavoidable, the most important is not filling EN. There is no prefect plan B, you are still M and there are time when you have to have contact.

tjs, I know it is hard when your kid asking for help but that is a grey line on contact. I would do the same but you might fill in your W's EN in family support.

Take vacation !, away and a break from all of this mess for a while ... it helped my sanity. -RH-

Hi, Kim-
You&#8217;re right, our situations are very similar. But, I don&#8217;t know if my love is totally empty for my W. Instead, I&#8217;m just extremely worn out and out of patience. I also don&#8217;t know if the love that I do have will last the duration through recovery, but I do still love her.

I thought about the counseling session w/ WW. Isn&#8217;t the whole reason why we&#8217;re here on MB is to re-BUILD our marriage? I don&#8217;t think it could hurt anything by going. I feel strong and up for it. Maybe, I can get some insight on some things. I don&#8217;t plan on saying much unless I&#8217;ve been asked a question. I figure I&#8217;ll just sit quietly and listen. When you went to your counseling, who&#8217;s idea was it? Maybe I&#8217;m wrong, but I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m going to get hurt over this.

I agree with you about not showing her any pain, but I really don&#8217;t have much right now. I have anger, resentment, frustration&#8230; my pain has kinda went numb. I think I am showing her that my life will continue w/out her, but at the same time I want her to know that I want her to come out of her fog. As long as she&#8217;s w/ OM, my life will move forward w/out her. But, Kim, I&#8217;m not really in the revenge business. I want what is best for my family, and I really believe that if she can rid herself of OM, there is a chance at recovery, and reuniting my family. Parents as a couple that love each other and respect each other are far better for the kids than being separated parents.

You asked me &#8220;Are you now closer to your kids?&#8221; Somewhat closer to my younger ones, but very much closer w/ my oldest. Through all this, WW lost her relationship w/ him, and he refuses to talk to her. He has never been one to open up his feelings to me, or anyone else. He&#8217;s a tough 14 yr old that doesn&#8217;t like talking about his feelings. But, I have made progress, and he&#8217;s told me things that I never thought I&#8217;d hear him say to me. If nothing else, we have gotten much closer through all this. He actually cried on my shoulder one nite. Unbelievable&#8230; !

You also talked about the pain she is feeling to be rejected from her father. Her parents came out here last week and I met them at my boy&#8217;s baseball game when I got off from work. Coincidentally, WW arrived at the same time as I did. Her mom and dad both hugged me, and her dad didn&#8217;t even acknowledge her existence. She told her mom later that it really hurt her, as it should.

Is it too late for reconciliation? That&#8217;s something that only you can find somewhere in your heart if it&#8217;s there. For me, I&#8217;m definitely taking a break&#8230; for how long? I dunno, maybe for good, but I think I may get my second wind. Who knows&#8230;

You can vent to me whenever you want&#8230; take care.

______________________________________________________________

Hi, CoffeeMan!
You always have a way with words that I can relate to.

I think you may be right about her not being able to commit. But, I&#8217;m quite sure that OM thinks I&#8217;m way out of the picture. He&#8217;s clueless. He has no idea how tormented she is right now. I think he&#8217;s such a jerk that if she tried to reveal that she&#8217;s having second doubts, he&#8217;d probably dump her. Yeah, it would be ironic that by trying to keep two men she ends up losing both of them. I bet that happens frequently.

Thanks again, coffeeman!

________________________________________________________________

Okay, redhat, I got your message. You&#8217;ve been trying to tell me to give it one more shot before hanging it up. So, I figured, what have I got to lose, really? I told her this morning that I wanted to talk to her. She came over this evening, and we sat on my front porch for about a half an hour. Besides, my plan B thus far hasn&#8217;t been the model plan, so what&#8217;s one more conversation&#8230; right?

I&#8217;m not going to get into too many details because it&#8217;s late and I gotta go to sleep. But, she told me that she went to her counseling today and it really helped her. She expressed her fear of me not forgiving her because she said there would be no way she could ever forgive me if I did the things she did. I told her that I know I can do whatever I must on my part for rebuilding our M, and that forgiveness comes with understanding which I achieved in most part from my friends at MB. I said that she needs to find what&#8217;s in her heart, because her head is making her confused. I also said that I love her. I explained that because I want to protect the love that I have, I must have no contact w/ her. I said that I will go to the counseling w/ her, but no other contact. I said that in order for me to accept her back into my life, her A must be completely over, she must end the A by using the recommended MB methods, prove to me that it&#8217;s over, and that she must be willing to try to rebuild my trust. Anything short of that, and I won&#8217;t be willing to jeopardize myself and put myself back into her mess. I STRESSED the &#8220;no communication&#8221;. I also suggested that she rereads my letter.

Now, redhat, perhaps you could expand on your thoughts about being in plan A but not catering to their ENs.

One more comment&#8230; when my kids are asking for my help, I will be there&#8230; simple as that. I don&#8217;t care what plan I&#8217;m in&#8230; I&#8217;m there. Granted, setting up the Playstation isn&#8217;t really anything that important. But, I don&#8217;t want my W to be the reason for me to NOT come over when they want to see me. I can avoid her, or better yet, take the Playstation to my house and hook it up. I never thought about that until this evening. Now it&#8217;s over here. Perhaps I am meeting one of W&#8217;s EN, but I&#8217;m doing it to meet the EN of my children. They are the one that need my support.

Finally, you suggested that I take vacation. Well, my kids and I plan to go to her parents cabin over the July 4th weekend. We both could use the break from all of this craziness.

Thanks for your opinions and advice. I always welcome it.

tjs ... it is good that you gave her a last run. You will be energized again after your short break. About your question on plan A w/o catering to WS's EN; there is no such thing in MB ... it is a tough love approach. You draw the boundries (not WS) but you maintain all contact. Orchid does this to her H, even while H live with her, ... tough lady. She is one venusian who could talk to the fog <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Re-read her reply to your post.

Enjoy your trip ... Actually I am on a trip, a competition event, but my WW has my 2 D and stayed on the other side of the hotel. I am playing accidental tourist, even had a chance to take a day trip to Yosemite. -RH-