thejohnsmith,

I have been following your posts and I just want to offer my support with the tough love thang!

The only thing that worked in my situation was to completely back off and "pretend" as if I was going on with my life. I knew it may mean the end of my marriage, but it didn't appear that I had much of a marriage at the time anyway.

I really believe you need to do this for your own personal benefit as well as the benefit of your wife. Since you have been going through this for a while, then chances are your wife knows deep down how you feel.

Tough love is difficult but if you read the stories on this board, most of the time, a WS does not come around until the BS is truly ready to move on. I know this stinks but I have to admit I believe this to be true most of the time. There is absolutelly nothing wrong with letting your wife know you do not appreciate her behavior. She WILL get angry at first - that's a given..but then...either she will come around or she won't.

Tough love is about letting your wife know that you are no longer going to tolerate her actions, but you do not do it through words. You let her know by your actions. You can take a stand and still be loving at the same time. You can become stronger by not putting yourself within her path every time she comes around. For your own protection - get out of her way. If she gets nasty, then keep your cool. Never let he see you sweat at any cost.

Right now - whether it is true or not - your wife has a pre-conceived idea of what she thinks you are. When you let her "get to you", you are just proving to her - in her mind - that you are the person she believes you to be. Does that make sense?

If you can pull away and then act nicely when she is around, then you will see a difference. My WH would "punch my buttons" on purpose. He loved to see me cry and act desparate for him. I wanted him to see my pain and I wanted him to know that everything he was saying was not true, so I would talk to him, cry to him etc., THEN God got a hold of my heart and let me know that what I was doing was useless because my WH could not see anything but himself. When I saw this - I was able to be strong for me. And when I became stong for me, my husband came around.

I am glad he came around, but I really would have been O.K. had he not. This is the beauty of plan B or Tough love. You realize that you are a valuable person even minus a spouse.

I know it seems like letting go is not fighting for your marriage, but trust me, it is. True love in it's purest form is free. God gives us a free will, even when he knows that we are making poor decisions. He attempts to show us that we are making bad decisions, but if we are determined to make those decisions anyway, He stands back and allows us to suffer the consequences. Now after we have suffered, we may admit to God that He was right - we ask for forgiveness and he graciously forgives - IF we ask.

Listen, for now your wife has left you! Let her experience life without you! She will never be able to see the good you bring to the marriage without you being totally out of the picture for a while. By allowing her to use your home and facilities, you are not allowing her to experience the consequences of her actions. She may actually hit rock bottom, look in the mirror and say what have I done? - THEN and only then can you work on your marriage. If she doesn't get to this point, you will not be able to save the marriage. It takes two. The ball is in her court now.

I hope this helps.

Howto and Redhat-
Thanks you guys for coming to my rescue. I was in such a terrible state last nite. I ended up falling asleep somewhere around 4am. I didn't set my alarm, but I still woke up early. I took a shower and wondered about my W. I can see her house from my kitchen window, and saw her take the boys to school.

Then I got an idea. At this junction, I didn't think I could botch things up any worse, so I started walking down to her house. I was about half way when she saw me on her way back from dropping the boys off. She stopped to see what I'm doing. She gave me a ride the rest of the way. We sat on her porch, and I said that I was sorry for my behavior last night... I am stronger than that and I just let myself get carried away.

Then I said that a month and a half ago, she came to me and told me that I was right... that she was living a fantasy, and she realized it. she realized that she didn't want to be with OM anymore. Part of the reason was because he wouldn't be good for our kids. And he didn't want her to have anything to our oldest boy. She defended him by saying that was because my son treats her like crap. I said it doesn't matter what the reason is, just the fact that he doesn't want her to spend time with our son or he gets mad.

Anyway, I reminded her how she told me that she wanted to try and work on our marriage. I told her that we both knew that she would have to quit her job and have NO contact w/ OM. She didn't, and as expected, he started talking bulls**t to her again... and she was sucked right back into it. I told her that i can't really blame her because I know she needs a job, but because she didn't quit, we had no chance in h*ll. She fell head first in her fantasy again, and now she's in deeper that she ever was. Her love for OM was strong, and she wasn't strong enough to fight it.

But I wanted to remind her that a few months ago she was saying the same things to me... that there is no chance for our marriage, and she wants to spend her life w/ OM. But 6 weeks ago, she changed her mind. Never say never. I reminded her that I told her months ago that her relationship wasn't going to last and she was going to realize what she's losing... and she did. And I said to her that she is going to do that again.

I told her that I just hope that she realizes if she moves w/ him to another town, and takes my boys w/ her, it's going to be much harder to get out than if she ends it now... the sooner the better. I reminded her that he's still the same guy that she didn't want to be with last month. I also advised her not to listen to his legal advice. He talks from his D last year, but it was in a different county, in a large city, and different circumstances. His advice is going to screw her over if she listens to him. He's NOT an attorney.

Then I told her that I suspected that her recovery was false from the start. I said that I still love her, and I want to leave the door open at home for her. I still want to put my family back together, and I know we could do it. But, she has to give me a chance... more than a week, like last time. She MUST quit her job, and I will help her out. I offered for her to move in w/ me, but there are boundaries that I must set. The most important one is that she must commit to trying. She must write a goodbye letter to OM, and vow to NEVER speak to him again. She must continue counselling, for both herself and as a couple. She must stop taking birth control pills. She must account for her time away from me. And she must understand that if she falters, then she's back on her own. If I get that job in another state (which I think will happen next week), she can move out with me as a family, where we can get a fresh start on everything. I know that we both need to get away from here.

I felt that if we are to ever have a chance, I felt I must offer her my help... with conditions. She told me last week that her counsellor tells her she must learn to stand on her own 2 feet, and that she doesn't need a man to stand on. She said that she can't do it, and she always must depend on someone else. So, it's either me, or it's OM.

Anyway, I said that I know she can do this. She can do it for our marriage, for our family, for our oldest son, and for herself. She can break free of his clutches... it will be tough for a while, but I know she can do it. I told her that I believe in her. I told het that I had to leave, and I gave her a hug and a kiss. As I was about to leave, I told her "you can do this, and I love you".

When i got home, I felt really good. I feel like she heard at least some of the things I said... particularly about OM and my son. She knows that if she decides to live w/ OM, our oldest son will NEVER approve of him. I had also reminded her that she could never take OM to her parent's house, or her siblings houses, either. She will be virtually abandoned... and she is/was very close to all of them before her A. She knows down inside what she will be giving up... and it won't be just me. I think that will make her think a while.

Well, a while later, she called me. She asked if she could come over and take a shower at my house (her gas has been shut off at her house). I thought about it for a minute, and I said okay. Maybe it wasn't smart, but I thought I would be a small token of the truth I told her. She came over and showered and came in the kitchen where I was. I told her that I'm not going to help her out any more, including showers, unless she can commit to me. No more bulls**t. I said that when she sees him today at work, to not listen to her crap. Tell him to leave her alone today... tell him she's not feeling well, or whatever. She needs to spend the weekend alone to think about things w/out OM or me interfering. I'm sure she'll be talking to him on the phone, though. But, anyway, I told her that I know she can do this... and one more time told her that I love her. She kissed me goodbye and went home.

Before I went to work, I bought her a single rose. I put a brief note with it that said that She can do this for us and for our family. And, of course, I wrote that I'll always love her. I put it on her car seat. Hope she didn't sit on it... those thorns are sharp.

So, now I wait. I will not take any further action. I'm going to let her wrestle with any thoughts she has... unless I am completely wrong about this, and she thinks she has tricked me into something. Regardless, I will be firm. The future of my marriage and my family are riding on this.

Now, i'm not sure if she's going to ask me if I went to my attorney Monday, like i told her that i would. But, i decided to let her take actions for the D. She's the one that wanted the D, she's the one that filed the D, she can be the one to finish it. I can't do something that I believe to be wrong. I'm just not sure what to tell her if she asks. I think I'll just tell her the truth, regardless if she gets mad at me or not.

I hope I did the right thing today. I feel good about it. Only time will tell, I suppose.

TJS

Dear John Smith:

I want to be blunt with you because I think it is needed here. You are her whipping boy. She is walking all over you and she knows she can. You have got to go to Plan B. You are still so wrapped up in what she is doing that you have forgotten how to live. You have got to get some control over your life. Just because she is acting like a selfish, out of control child doesn't mean you have to too. Your kids need you at your strongest now. Even if you are just faking. Go for the Academy Award in front of her. Cry when you are alone.

As a woman I cannot honestly say I would find you attractive in your state. You are letting her see you weak. Not to say that we have not all been weak in this whole mess but you have to put on a face of confidence. She has to feel that the man she gave up was not some cry baby whimp. But an attractive, strong, in control, confident, man who could live without me right now.

My WH sat on the fence for a long time and I threw him out more times than I could remember. It was not until I changed my attitude and said to myself that I would just stop worrying about the affair and let them go at it. I would only worry about me and my kids he could do whatever the hell he wanted but it would not be under my roof.
You have to show some self-respect. You have to. In whatever way you know how you have to frighten her, bring her to her knees wondering if she made the right choice. Let her see you at your strongest, most confident, moving ahead best. Good Luck. wu

I'm sorry TJS but I agree with wucus. Your behavior is far from attractive to ANY woman. One day you show strength and confidence to her that the M is over and you are moving on with your life, and the next day you are giving in to her requests. The image she has in her mind of you is probably that of a confused man that loves her and will wait forever for her to return, and thus she has no incentive to want to come back to the M.

While I question your latest turnaround, I can empathize with your remaining love for her and giving it your best shot to save what is left of your M. Unfortunately, I don't beleive that she will want to come back to you until AFTER you have gone into a plan B. By letting her experience what it's like not to have anymore contact with you, and letting OM taking care of all of her needs, you are giving a toxic dose of reality to her A.

Even if her A dies and she comes back to you, you will have not only the issue of marital recovery but the issue of her financial recklesness to deal with. You may as well change your name to Sisyphus from Greece.

tjs,

I am glad that you did that. Even in plan A ... doesn't mean that you can't say no. Re-read Torizo's story again. He stood firm ... loving but firm ... keep reminding her that he love her but disapproved her action. This is talking to the fog all about. You put your boundry but letting her know that you love her and still beleive in her. What you are doing is "chipping" away the wall or throwing stones in the pond ... you won't see the result right away but soone or later the wall will crumbled and the pond will be cover w/ stones.

Let her Dv you ... it will buy you sometimes.

-RH-

wucus and Coffeeguy -
I appreciate you being candid w/ me. I know exactly what you are telling me - I am acting like a spineless wuss, and that I need to stand up, regroup, and confidently move on with plan B. That's the only way I will ever get respect, and she will only want to be w/ a man that can stand his own ground, on his own 2 feet... and I should never show her my weaknesses.

But, also remember where you are in your relationships. You are both much further along than I am. You have become strong through time, but remember back when you weren't strong. We all sought guidance and comfort on the MB website to help us build strength, confidence and understanding. 2 months ago I was much stronger than I am now. I was willing to accept the consequence of Dv. I turned my back on her behavior, and concentrated on me and my boys. But,it didn't take much coaxing from my WS to let me take her back in. Although I was setting boundaries, I let her get a good grip on my heart again. It felt good to hear her tell me that she loves me again, and to feel her warm kisses on my lips. I missed it more than I realized. So, in a very short period of time, I found myself back where I was months ago. I was sucking up her lies, and remaining blind to her infidelity.

Now, I have to pull myself out of the cesspool again. I can't say that my actions are the right ones. I just want to be able to say that I have done everything I could do to bring my family back together again. I know I need to get control of myself... but sometimes it's easier said than done. I suppose I was trying to step back, remind her how I feel, and then make a decision between Dv, tough love, or plan B. But my biggest problem is that I keep changing my mind with my moods. I know I have to stop that... Make a plan and stick to it.

Redhat-
Thank you again your support on my behalf. Conflicting advice can sometimes become confusing. You've always been one who tells me to give it another try... you can do it... Go back in there and give it your best before turning to plan B. It's very encouraging. But advice from Coffeeguy (who has helped me pick myself off the floor more than once)and wucus is equally convincing and sound. Who's to say which is right and which is wrong. Maybe nothing that I do could ever stop my W's A.

But in my opinion everyone is right. I believe that it doesn't hurt to give it another go of affection before moving on to plan B. No, my plan wasn't thoroughly reviewed before I acted. But I think I achieved what I set out to accomplish. But now I agree that I need to go to plan B. I will never get respect from her unless I demand it. But whatever I do, I have a few days to think about it since she left town. She took my advice to get away for the weekend. Only, she must not have caught that part when I said away from everyone... including (and especially) OM. I figured she would go there.

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's support when I need it. With your help and encouragement, I will make it through this, I know. I'm just realizing how difficult change can be sometimes.

TJS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But my biggest problem is that I keep changing my mind with my moods. I know I have to stop that... Make a plan and stick to it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bingo!.

If you have faith in your plan, no matter what the outcome, then you need to stick to it. Your emotions have to be guided by your reason. It was your WW's emotions that led her to her A, and your emotions that are sabotaging your plan. But do you know what your plan is?

Hey, Coffeeguy-

I'mm moving on to plan B tonite. I'm working on my letter now.

Where's your thread? I'd be interested in reading your story.

TJS

Hi TJS.

Per your request, I give you my story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>

Fireman.

Your story hits so close to home, that reading it is very difficult for me. My xWW also thought there was nothing wrong with having PA's with different men. I too was like you in that I did my best to woo her to stop her PA's and recommitt to the M but it was useless. She not only became a horrible spouse to live with, but a horrible parent as well. Her sexual addiction became so consuming that for all practical purposes I was a widower and my children were motherless. In the end, I realized that there was nothing I could do to make her change, it was all up to her, but I had already had enough, with the last straw being that one time while I was working and she supposedly taking care our daughters, I get a frantic call from my youngest daughter, crying that she and her sister where all alone and that mommy had gone out with one of her 'friends'. Enough was enough, I left work, went home and called our county's child protective services and filed a report against her for child abandonment. My daughters were interviewed by the social worker assigned to our case, and wrotte a report documenting everything my daughters told her. I wrotte a 30 day notice of vacancy to my landlord, unbeknownst to my dear WW, started searching for another apartment, and when the 30 days were up (I chose the weekend since she never spent them with us), me and the girls were gone. I also filed for divorce and a restraining order (using the report from the social worker as evidence). Needless to say that she was extremely pissed when she found out that she no longer had a home and the RO against her. She swore to me that she was going to have one of her inmate 'friends' of hers go 'cut your balls and stuff them down your throat' (the stupid idiot left her message on my answering machine, more evidence). She was so very sure that the court would grant her sole custody of the girls and when it turned out it was not to be the case, and because of her behavior, visitation was going to be supervised. She was shocked with disbeleif because in her mind, she had done nothing wrong (HEAVY FOG).

It's been two years since my divorce was finalized, and my daughters and me have finally rid of the horror of the years living with her. I'm now in a relationship with a woman who is an adult and is mentally, emotionally, and physically healthy. And as for my xWW, she went thru a breakdown, got into therapy for her sexual addiction, and is starting to become, at the very least, the woman I perceived she was before we got married.

My point in telling you my story fireman is that I see MANY similarities between your WW and my xWW and all I can say to you is beware my friend.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though all this happened before I was even aware of MB, I still beleive that our M was doomed.

If you get anything from my story, let it be that there IS life after divorce.

As for yours truly, you know what I learned? I finally learned that there were many red flags prior to our M, that if I had given heed to I never would have asked her to marry me. What things you ask? LIES about her whereabouts, her broken promises to help me with little errands, her JEALOUSY if she saw me talking to another woman. But just like most WW's are in the fog when they are in their A's, I too was in my own fog because I was infatuated with a beautiful young woman and I did not care about those things I mentioned above. Boy did I pay a heavy price for closing my eyes to the truth.

Good luck and God bless.

<small>[ August 25, 2002, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Wow, Coffeeguy. Thanks for the story. I guess I don't feel quite as bad hearing someone else's misfortune. But I'm glad to hear that the story had a good ending.

My difficulty lies with my 2 sons that live with her. I may try for custody, but if I lose, I'm afraid she will make things difficult for me and them just because she is mad. But if I win, I will have to go back to court to get permission to take them out of the state. As I already wrote, I have a really good shot at a job in California. I should find out this week. I will wait on making a decision regarding the boys until I know for sure.

Anyway, I gave her my plan B letter. This is the second one now. She sucked me back into believing that she was going to work on our marriage, but failed to tell OM. She kept him around, I suppose as security... who knows. But because of that, there was no way in h3ll that we could reconcile. I'm really bitter about this because I was moving right along, comfortable (as much as I could) knowing that we were probably headed for Dv court. But, instead, she stirred my emotions back, and now I gotta start all over gain. I think it's even harder than before because I had a glimmer of hope waved in my face, and taken away.

So, plan B is the route I took. I don't think I had any other choice. Tonite was really, really hard for me because I wanted to call her so bad. So, bad, I actually tried calling her. Fortunately, her phone was busy because she was talking to OM, no doubt. I called my friend right away when I realized my weakness. It's nice to hear from someone that tells me I'm doing the right thing, but sometimes I just need to hear it from someone else.

I know I can do this. I just gotta get through the first few days, and I'll be okay.

TJS.

A side note to my story is that my xWW has started a futile campaign to get back in my life. She has e-mailed and snail mailed me 'love' letters expressing remorse for hurting me and our daughters, that she now realizes that I was her true love, yada yada yada <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Curiously, this campaign of hers started just shortly after I started my present relationship. Even though she has as much chance of me taking her back as a snowball's chance in hell, I do feel badly for her. Despite the hell she put me and our girls thru, I do not have anymore ill will towards her and sincerely desire that she becomes an emotionally healthy woman, so that she could eventually be able to be in a relationship with somebody that loves her and be happy. You could say that I have forgiven her BUT that does not mean going back.

You know it's strange how sometimes a divorce may turn out the best thing for all parties involved.

Good luck and God bless.

Coffeeguy-
I'm glad to hear this. It's some kind of an inspiration knowing that blue skies lay ahead.

I'm not doing well right now. I feel this dark cloud looming over me. I tried to screw up my plan this morning. Fortunately God is watching over me. I tried to stop by her house this morning. I don't know what has happened to me. Normally she's home in the morning, but thank God, she wasn't today. She goes to small claims court today because someone is sueing her.

Man, I feel like s**t right now. Believe it or not, last winter my boss bought me a bottle of vodka. I started drinking it here at work. I don't have anything to worry about as far as getting fired. I answer only to one man, and he loves to drink. This just isn't like me.

What is happening to me? All I can think about is knowing that I haven't been able to spend a single holiday w/ my W in over a year, and Labor Day is next w/e. I'm sure she'll spend it w/ fat [censored].

Am I gonna make it? It hasn't even been one day and I wanna call her. f**k!

Where are my friends... this one time that I need to hear from someone to help me stabilize...

TJS,

TJS,

I feel your pain and your need to contact and share things with your WW. I too had that 'need' after separation until I realized I was doing myself more harm than good.

You see, even though you desperately want your M to 'work out' and there is always a chance it will, you have to prepare yourself if it does not work out.

Your attempts to 'connect' with your WW is partly due to fear also, IMO. If you can face your fear - be able to prepare and deal with the worst case scenerio (your M may not work out) then you have conquered your fear. You will be a stronger and appear less 'needy'. Not only would that be great in your WW's view of you, more important you will feel much better about yourself also.

Put down the bottle, that kind of behavior benefits no one.

take care.

Hi, LiveAnew,
Thanks. You are right about me being afraid. I went to my counselor today. She told me the same thing. She told me the same thing that everyone here has been trying to tell me. But, yes, I think it is fear that I fear... didn't FDR say something about that?

Something happened to me tonite that just makes me smile. I was on the phone w/ a friend, and WW tried calling. I didn't want to click over (sometimes I hate call-waiting), and so I just ignored it. She tried it twice. A minute after I hung up, she came pulling up in my driveway. She saw me in the window and she knocked. I went upstairs and told my son to get the door. He came up a minute later and said she wanted to talk to me. I waited a while debating what to do. I went ahead and answered the door. She wanted to tell me that she was going to be late getting home from work tomorrow (I told my other S to tell her I want her work schedule). I asked if that was all she needed. She asked me if I would talk, and I said I shouldn't but I will very briefly, and reminded her that I didn't want to even see her. She said that she read chap. 13 in the HNHN book I gave her last week to read (about affairs). Hmmm... interesting. She asked me if there was anything else in the book that she should read. I told her that I haven't read the whole thing, but I do have SAA which might be more appropriate. She asked if she could borrow it. I said sure, but I wanted to let her know that just because she reads the book doesn't mean that I'm willing to change the decision I made w/ plan B. She said she understood, and that she didn't expect that I would. I told her, maybe someday... but right now, I need to think about myself, my career, and my kids. I said that I still want to stay with no contact, and that I'm a little peeved that she didn't honor my decision. She appologized, and said she will be more thoughtful next time. I reminded her that even phone calls are out of the question unless it's an emergency. If she needs to tell me something, she can call my work and leave a message w/ my secretary. I will get the message. So, I gave her the book and started going back inside. Just as I was closing the door, she said "Oh.. Wait...". I cracked the door a little and she said she was going to call me regarding my son's court case tomorrow to see how it went (that's a story I'm not going to get into right now). I told her that I'll let her know, and closed the door.

Isn't that crazy? I give her my plan B letter Sunday... Tuesday she comes over and wants to borrow SAA book. She's not going to suck me back in. I had a real tough weekend, and I'm not going back where I was. I had a fairly good day today. I must regenerate my life. Maybe I should've told her leave right away. But considering how I felt yesterday, I think I did pretty good. Next time, I will be strong enough to tell her to leave sooner. But I take it one step at a time.

Okay, maybe I don't deserve a medal for tonite, but I feel good about it... and I think it made me a little stronger.

I'm still learning, Coffeeguy.

TJS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm still learning, Coffeeguy. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We ALL are TJS.

TJS,
I am glad LiveAnew & TMCM kept you company. There is no perfect plan A or plan B ... we just have to give our best shot. Remember it is the same thing as in withdrawal ... every contact in plan B set your clock back to zero.

-RH-

TJS,
You are doing better. Good Job! You have been through a lot. It is very unhealthy for your wife to keep snagging you back into her sick world. If you can manage to stay away - maybe she will get her act together. In the meantime, you need to concentrate on you - if your wife were to come back now, you would have so many emotions to deal with PLUS you will would have to be strong for her.

So take this time to deal with your emotions and get stronger. Yes, you have to be strong to win your wife back but you also have to be strong for recovery and if you aren't strong now, then recovery will be extremely tough. Does this make sense? You keep reading that your wife needs you to be strond and although this is true, you first need to be strong for yourself. It takes strength to heal.

Good luck and keep up the good work!

Looking back on the past week or so, it's really crazy how emotions can take over a person's life. I realize how pathetic I had been in front of my WW. I forgive myself for being that way because I couldn't stop myself. What I needed was for someone to b**ch-slap me a few hundred times... which, in essence, is what my friends here at MB did for me.

It's only been 3 days since plan B started, and I already feel better. I think about her a little less everyday. This weekend will help me tremendously. I plan to take all 3 boys to my sister-in-law's house to get away. She's very supportive of me. I hope to take them to an amusement park if I have the money after paying my bills. I'm really looking forward to this. I'm sure my WW will spend it w/ OM. Who really cares anyway? I'm not going to let myself dwell on that.

Something happened last Fri nite that I didn't post... I guess for fear of being chastized from my peers here at MB. I actually went to OM's house so I could have the peace-of-mind knowing that she really is w/ him. I drove by just as she was getting out of her car. He came charging out to the street when he saw me, so I stopped and got out of my car. It was the first time I ever saw him face-to-face. He's not a very attractive man. He tried coaxing me onto his property so he could "tear me apart". I wasn't stupid enough to do that - i know he file charges for trespassing and anything else he could charge me with, but told him he could come into the street where I was standing and we could rumble. Well, the testosterone went on back and forth for a few minutes... but it was really tough to see my WW there. She threatened to call the police on me, and told her to go ahead because I wasn't breaking any laws. I reminded her that she traded in not only me, but also her kids, parents and siblings for this man, and asked her if he was worth it. She looked in my eyes and firmly said "yes he is". That was enough for me. As I was getting back into my car, OM had to add that he enjoys f***ing my wife and will think about me that nite when they f*** again. That was nice to hear. But, I asked for it, I suppose.

I can't say that I regret going over there. I needed that slap of reality to help me with plan B. Sure, every moment of Sat and Sun I spent reliving that nite... wishing I would have taught him a lesson. But I know I was right in somehow maintaining my composure. But it sure helps me break free of her trance.

So, there you have it. Right or wrong, I did it... and I don't regret it.

I went to court today for my oldest son. He got into trouble last May at school for his 3rd assault charge. No, he didn't beat the tar out of anyone, but the school does not tolerate any physical confrontation regardless of who started it. My S just has a hard time turning the other cheek. He already has a hard time dealing with anger. And the crap him mom has pulled has made him very angry at the world. He was put on a ratcheted-down probation. If he messes up one time in 6 months, he will be sent to the Youth Rehabilitation Center. I started him in counselling about 6 months ago, and it seems to be helping a little. But I'm just scared to death he's going to be taken away from me. No, I can't blame my WW for all his negative behavior. But I know that it was because of his feeling that she betrayed him as his mother, he is so bitter and frustrated. And I certainly know how he feels. But through all this awful experience w/ my WW's A, my S and I are much closer than we ever have been before. But what a terrible price to pay.

I better get some sleep now before I go to work in 4 hours.

tjs

<small>[ August 29, 2002, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: thejohnsmith ]</small>

OK TJS prepare yourself to get bit** slap.

Since you have made the decision of marital recovery by implementing plan B, you may have dangerously depleted your love bank by going over to OM's house and dealing with the crap from OM and from your WW. Anymore incidents like that one and your love bank may close forever and then you may not want to reconcile with her at all. Furthermore you LB'd big time my friend, and that severely undermines plan B by pushing your WW further back into OM's arms. LOVE BUSTERS(SELFISH DEMANDS,ANGRY OUTBURSTS,DISRESPECTFUL JUDGEMENTS, AND ANNOYING HABITS) DON'T WORK. If you are serious at giving it one last final shot, then you need to exercise PATIENCE AND EMOTIONAL DETACHMENT. You know what patience is, right? but you may not know that emotional detachment means that for the time being, you are only married on paper, and that you will have your W back when SHE wants to come back to you and seriously committs herself to rebuild the M by going to counseling.

Now go take a couple of aspirins for that nasty bit** slapping I gave you and that you so richly deserved <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ August 29, 2002, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>