Mrs TJS.

Can TJS come out and play? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey, Coffee guy...
What happened to your signature line... I hardly knew who you were.

Much has happened since my last post. Unfortunately, I don't have time to fill you in right now. I'll try to get some free time tomorrow.

But in a nutshell... the big D is going through.

tjs

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thejohnsmith:
Hey, Coffee guy...
What happened to your signature line... I hardly knew who you were.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I put it in the closet to give it a little bit of a rest, but I plan to bring it back soon if popular demand screams for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Much has happened since my last post. Unfortunately, I don't have time to fill you in right now. I'll try to get some free time tomorrow.

But in a nutshell... the big D is going through.

tjs</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry to hear that, but I await the details tomorrow.

In the meantime, get plenty of rest and take care of the little ones.

Okay, here it is&#8230;

Last time I wrote that WW was going to OMs house for the weekend. Well, she's been there ever since. She moved her stuff to storage and moved in w/ OM 2 weeks ago last Fri. The following week, I moved my stuff to another town 15 miles the other direction. So, now we are about 70 miles away from each other. That helps considerably.

Tomorrow will be my boys&#8217; first day back to school. She didn&#8217;t send them to school for 2 weeks now. I have been working w/ my attorney on custody, which I feel very confident I will get them. Anyway, I hadn&#8217;t talked to her for over a week, when last Wed she calls me at work. She told me how nice it was to hear my voice and told me how much she misses me. I didn&#8217;t say anything. Then she asks me if I plan on taking the boys this weekend and I said I did. Then she asked me if I wanted to have lunch the next day. I told her that I didn&#8217;t want to. So, she asked me if I want to have lunch with her Friday. I asked her why she wants to have lunch with me so bad. She said that she wanted to talk to me. I just told her that I wasn&#8217;t going to be able to have lunch with her at all. That was about the end of that conversation.

Thursday, she called me 4 times at work. I didn&#8217;t talk to her much, but I didn&#8217;t hang up either. I&#8217;m not in plan B anymore. There is no reason for me not to talk to her because I don&#8217;t want her anymore. Don&#8217;t say that you&#8217;re sorry to hear that... I know that I can&#8217;t do it anymore. My love for her is gone, and I know it. Well, Friday, my oldest S got into some trouble at school, and I had to pick him up. When I got there, the school had also contacted her and she was standing outside the school. I asked her what she was doing, and she said that she wanted to see me. She told me that it was good to see me and told me how much she misses me. Then she hugged me and started to cry. I told her that I had to go inside to deal with our S. She followed me inside the school and we talked for a few minutes. She said that she quit her job. I didn&#8217;t ask why, but I&#8217;m sure she sacrificed her job so her lover won&#8217;t lose his job when or if their employer found out they are living together now. She looked like a wreck, and cried the whole time we talked. I didn&#8217;t stay long, and I took my S home.

So, yesterday (Saturday), she came over to drop off my other 2 boys for the weekend. I hugged the boys and gave them kisses. The she asks me &#8220;where&#8217;s mine?&#8221;. So I gave her a hug and a peck on her lips. I walked her back outside to her car and she stood there looking at me. I asked her if there was something she wanted to say to me. she asked me if I had been looking for a new job. I told her no. she said that she was hoping I could find a new job so we can all get out of here. I told her that if I get a new job, she isn&#8217;t coming with me. She started crying again. I looked at her in disbelief. Here this woman is living w/ a man and we&#8217;re still not divorced, yet I&#8217;m suppose to want her to come with me if I move out of state? So, I had to give it to her straight... directly and honestly from my heart. I told her that I don&#8217;t want to be with her anymore. I explained to her that I realize that I have been dead for the past year, and I just finally realized that I want to live again. I don&#8217;t want to just exist. Now I&#8217;m redefining my life and who I am. I have changed so much since her affair, and I&#8217;m still learning about myself. I told her that I hope she learns some things about her affair and poor decisions someday, too. I also told her that I know one day I will meet someone that can treat me good... with respect and dignity and consideration. Someone that can make me feel good and wants to spend time with me. Then she said that she wishes she could be that person. I told her that she had many, many chances to be that person, even up to just 2 weeks ago. But, now it&#8217;s too late. She also told me how depressed she is and that sometimes she doesn&#8217;t even want to live anymore. I told her that she needs to see her doctor so she can get on some antidepressants&#8230; it helped me when I felt that way (ironic twist, isn&#8217;t it?). Somewhere in this conversation, she stared hugging me and told me to not let go of her. I hugged her for a while, and then I told her that one day this will be all over and we will both be happy. She was bawling her eyes out and said that she will never be happy because she will never have me. I stepped back, looked her in her eyes, and reminded her that she told me just 2 weeks ago that OM makes her happy and our divorce will make her happy, and that now she is getting everything she wanted that was suppose to make her happy. By this time, snot was bubbling out of her nose when she told me that she loves me and she doesn&#8217;t want to be w/ OM. I just said I&#8217;m so sorry, but she made her decision when she left me for the last time to be w/ OM... now I've made mine. Then I said goodbye, and went inside.

It did hurt me to see her like that, but at the same time I felt incredibly relieved. I actually felt good about it... not because I saw her in pain, but because I know that I&#8217;m over her. She will never, ever again put me through such pain like she did. I realize now that I will never be happy with her. Anyway, today, I met WW at a mutual location so I can give her the boys. She followed me around as I hugged and kissed the boys goodbye and put their stuff in her car. When I leaned inside her car, I saw OM&#8217;s cell phone and a new pack of cigarettes she must have just bought for him while she was out. That was stark reality once again showing its ugly head. She was standing around waiting for me to hug her or something, but I just got into my truck, said goodbye and smiled at her as I drove away, leaving her there standing by her car.

I don&#8217;t envy her. Just like you once told me, Coffeguy... she is the one that she must face in the mirror every day knowing what she has done to her family. She is in such misery... and I think it's just the beginning of a terribly long and awful journey. Well, I suppose it&#8217;s her turn now. But, this was the path she chose, and I can&#8217;t turn back the hands of time.

I think I&#8217;m well on my way to recovery. It's not exactly the way I wanted things, but I can&#8217;t change the way I feel. Who knows, maybe one day... but it won&#8217;t be any time soon. Take care everyone. I will still post, but probably on a new thread on the &#8220;divorced&#8221; forum.

tjs

Well TJS I'm glad that you are much more stronger than a couple of weeks ago when she was playing her usual game of it's-time-to-yank-TJS's chain-again. Your stbxw has some very serious emotional issues that she does not want to address and beleives that the only way to make herself feel good is by having two men in her life. She seems to have a fear of allowing herself to rely on one man to satisfy all her EN's and what is ironic is that in the end she'll lose both of you (she's already lost you, OM is next to give her the boot).

She is not fit to be the custodial parent by any stretch of the imagination and you and your attorney should fight tooth and nail to make sure the court realizes how unfit an individual she really is and how the children would suffer in her care.

If you divorce her, she may finally crash and burn and realize that she needs serious medical help. It happened with my xWW after we got divorced and she lost custody of our daughters, she finally hit rock bottom and subsequently took the steps to start healing her fractured psyche thru psychological therapy. My xWW is finally showing signs of recovery and has started to live her life in a much more healthier way than when we were married, albeit all too late for me to even care about going back to her. It's sad that our x and stbx spouses are victims of themselves and that they will never get on the path of recovery until something earth shattering happens to them to wake them up to the horrible reality they have helped forged for themselves.

Don't be a stranger and keep us updated.

thejohnsmith,

BS does plan A and then plan B while waiting for WS separated from OP. It is too bad that WS's fog is lifted after soo much damage has done to BS. You still have a chance. I really sugest you to think it over ... in MB, as long as both spouse are willing to end the A properly and recover under 4 rules of recovery, the M will be restore to a better and fullfiling M than the past. Subside your anger and think it over what ammends will satisfy you ? Think w/ "if she could" not "if she would not would not do". This is for you. I know we all are ready to move on w/ or w/o WS ... but you have kids and she is always be the mother of your kids. She is willing to move out and start fresh w/ you and isn't this what you have ask for a few weeks ago ?. I know you don't want to get hurt again and you are in control now but IMVHO care & protection & time will heal our wounded heart ... Tjs, I am ready also to move on w/ or w/o my WW and next week I might finalized my Dv and WS is still deep in the fog. You know what, if she asked I will send her to SH, finalized my Dv but the delay the Dv decree 'till the end of the year. It is for her to convinced me that we could have fullfilling M and I will relay on SH's judgement.

Think it over ... people could change & the scar that A does will be healed w/ time. You have to put more energy to find "someone"
than let her to try to be that "someone". The question is what amends that she has to fill in and that depends on you. IMVHO, make a list of amends that you need to convince yourself. The key are repentance, greif what was loss, making ammends ...

What ever you decide, you have done more share on your part in this M by trying in the past few months. I just hate it when you waste your good effort and let go a tiny chance of reconciliation & recovery.

-rh-
-RH-

TJS:

Redhat makes some very good points here. I think that all 2 often people misinterpret plan A/B as some sort of contest of wills between the BS and the WS. It sure looks 2 me like your W is trying 2 break out of her si2uation, but she doesn't have a clue as 2 how 2 do this. Have you urged that she get counseling? Also, why not try what Redhat suggests and make a list of ammends that she could follow 2 demonstrate her resolve 2 heal herself and her M, if she really wants 2. Much of what you say she's said and done recently sounds like she simply has no idea what 2 do next. I know none of that makes sense, but YOU aren't in the fog, SHE IS. Sure, you could go straight 2 a firm plan B or even DV, and let her crash and burn on her own. But since you're not in plan B by your own admission, why not give this a wirl. What do you have 2 lose?

Remember, this woman is the mother of your kids, and always will be.

Redhat & 2Long.

The problem is that the false recoveries that TJS has gone thru with his WW have been the deadliest blows to his love for his WW, more so than her A with OM. Our resident MB coach, Cerri has stated that the start of the recovery process is a very vulnerable time where many M's don't make it. In TJS's case there doesn't seem to have been a truly serious effort on the part of his WW to committ on a plan of action for marital recovery, and since TJS had accepted her back before, she didn't seem to feel she was in any danger of losing him if she continued to play both him and OM. Now that TJS has stated that he's lost all of his love for her, she finally is realizing that she has lost him for good. Unfortunately she has cried wolf too many times and now she's probably finally realizing she's going to have to pay the consequences of her behavior.

TJS.

2Long closed his post by reminding you that she is the mother of your children and I too want to remind you of that fact. So it behooves you, for the sake of your children, to not act vindictive towards her since you are going to have to deal with her for a long, long time to come.

While nobody but you can say enough is enough, I humbly suggest that you make certain that you are truly over her. It would be very sad that after the divorce you started being haunted by the woulda,coulda,shoulda that many divorced people go thru after they have moved on.

TMCM:

You know more about TJS's story than I do. I can see where you're coming from in your posts.

TJS. I wish you all the best for a happy future. Your WW may need 2 experience life without you in it before she can have a rewarding future of her own.

Good luck,

TMCM & TJS :

I follow TJS very closely and also advocating for him to go to plan B. However I just pointed out that when WS is out of the fog ... give them the benefit of the doubt. Of course not with open arm and red carpet home, not even canceling his Dv. I just want TJS to relook one more time and put all the percaution to protect himself. If TJS set his mind I respect his choice and support his choice ... however it looks a wasted plan A/B to me.

-rh-

Thanks you 2long for your words. And a very special thanks to you both Redhat and Coffeeguy. You have both been with me very close from the start of my posts. I have learned from you both, although you have quite a different perspective.

I hope you stay tuned... much has happened today. I got a call this morning at work from WW. The first thing she said to me was that she loves me. She started crying again and she started pleading with me to take her back. She said she promises to be a good wife this time. She told me she misses me and she is sorry for all the terrible things she has done to me. She said that she has something wrong with her, and she doesn't what to do. She says that she knew she loved me, she knew she shouldn't be with OM, and she knew that she was splitting apart the family.... but she didn't know how to stop it. My God, she was crying so hard... I have never heard her like this. She kept saying over and over that she's sorry, she loves me, and she wants to come back home. I asked her to stop doing this. I told her I love her, but I just can't do it anymore. That was the conversation in a nutshell... although it was about 30 minutes.

Then she called me again tonite with the same thing. So, I told her that she needs to get some help. She agreed that she needs help and promised she was going to. Then I said that right now I can't take her back. But with time, after I have healed from my wounds, we can start talking about things. Maybe I will feel different in a few months. Who knows...

But right now, I just feel so wiped out. She took so much from me... she just kept taking and taking and taking... until there was no more to take. My love is at a minimum. Yes, I love her... she is the mother of my children. But she is also the giver of the pain I suffered for so long. So, she needs to get her self back together, and I need to get myself back on track, before either one of us can even think about being together.

So, her new plan is this... she is moving down to Phoenix and move in with her parents. She's suppose to do this Friday. I'll believe it when I see it. She's cried wolf so many times, I have a hard time believing anything she says to me. Regardless of what she does, I am continuing my plan with my life without her and pushing forward with the divorce. Perhaps there may be a possible future for the 2 of us... but it won't be today. I need some time away from her for a while. I need to rest and calculate my future.

tjs

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: thejohnsmith ]</small>

TJS

Her fear is NOT a good reason for taking her back because once that fear is gone she'll go back to business as usual. The only true thing in her conversation with you was when she told you that she knew that there was something wrong with her (oh boy is that an understatement <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Unfortunately the only way that OM will disappear from her life is when he becomes so fed up with her that he literally kicks her lovely butt out on to the street (we've seen what a beautiful disposition he has, haven't we?). Good ol' crash and burn will hopefully etch in her mind what a tragically bad choice having had an A truly was for her. She'll finally see that her actions had consequences afterall. I pray that she opens her heart to God and receives from him, his comfort and wisdom to help her live a much more healthier life for her and her children sakes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by thejohnsmith:
<strong>.... Then I said that right now I can't take her back. But with time, after I have healed from my wounds, we can start talking about things. Maybe I will feel different in a few months. Who knows... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
Then why not postpone your Dv until you are sure about it ?.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>But right now, I just feel so wiped out. She took so much from me... she just kept taking and taking and taking... until there was no more to take. My love is at a minimum. Yes, I love her... she is the mother of my children. But she is also the giver of the pain I suffered for so long. So, she needs to get her self back together, and I need to get myself back on track, before either one of us can even think about being together.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not advocating to work on plan A/B at all let alone taking her back, I am telling you to let her work it out w/ condition that you put out. I am well aware that you are hurt and drag on the bumpy road by this A. Again I really beleive you should put list of ammends and let her work on it. She has to write NC letter and cut OM completely. She might have to live with her mom for awhile as a cooling period between two of you. I really sugest that you call SH or Jennifer to make an appointment for your WW. Protect yourself but don't lock the door completely ... she is knocking the door, you have to answer it w/ list of ammends and let her open that door ... What you are doing now is lock the door and throw away the key. Explain to her all the hurt and feeling that you have then list the ammends and let her know that it is up to her to work on M until then there is no talk of getting back, no expectation. Let her call MB to guide her. After all your effort and hurt, is that a lot to ask ? -RH-

Redhat.

Beleive it or not, I agree with your viewpoint but right now TJS is burned out and I beleive that he needs to rest and get away from the emotional storm (of his WW's continuing A) for awhile. Maybe, like he said, in a few months he might think along the lines of your suggestions, but for now his emotional energies are depleted and he needs rest badly. He needs to have as little as possible contact with her, child related issues notwithstanding, to start to rebuild himself emotionally.

Also, it'll probably be a couple of months before his divorce becomes finalized, and during that time his WW may start getting serious about getting help to overcome her addiction to OM and other personal issues that feed said addiction. If she follows her words with positive changes, TJS may decide to stall the dv to see if said changes are permanent. But it's up to her to demonstrate to him that she is salvageable as his wife. The time for fence sitting is over.

TMCM ... I know I am pushing TJS a bit more ... and I know you understood well my intention. TJS could still do all what you are saying but not leaving the door completely lock up while he is tending his wound. Yes, WS has to do all the work ... but what work ? TJS has to tell her what ammends she should do and how long ...

This is very critical point !. You have to give them hope if they do the right thing good thing will come to their way. TJS could continue w/ his plan B if he wants to ...

Listen, all I ask for TJS to make a list of ammends and give it to WW and let her know that she has to convinced him that this time is different ... and she has to rebuild trust !. I am not advocating to take WW back now as is ... I am trying to give her a way to reconcile if she wants it.

I think you have a post of your list at one point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-RH-

Redhat.

You'll get not argument from me, and in fact you are preaching to the converted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There's a pretty strong possibility that TJS may give his WW a list of ammends to fulfill in order for him to let her get back into his life. But I beleive that TJS may let his WW suffer a little bit in order to see if her desire to be his W again is genuine or only a temporary coming out of the fog. If she is up to the task then she'll end her A with OM, send OM a no contact letter, and commit herself to a plan of marital recovery that includes counseling with an MB oriented counselor. But if she is not, then TJS will be able to say that he gave her more than enough chances to turn things around. But in the meantime I beleive that it might be prudent to give him some breathing room.

TJS.

Just want you to know that whatever you decide to do, you have our support. Of course that doesn't mean that occasionally we won't indulge ourselves to hit you over the head with a virtual 2x4 or slap your face silly with the virtual rubber chicken. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TMCM:

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> There was a great cartoon many years ago, that had a guy in a lab coat with a clipboard and pencil, jotting down notes. All around him were rubber chickens - some laying on the ground and many more floating in the air. The caption simply said "The effect of rubber chickens on the atmosphere."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I still giggle when I picture it!

2Long.

That is funny. It sounds like one of Gary Larson's Far Side cartoons.

I hope that we can make TJS laugh a bit with our twisted sense of humor. He probably needs a few laughs right now.

Hey, I thought I would bump my old post up.

So, Redhat and Coffeeguy, I’m back with my update.

Redhat, you suggested to me to give her a list… and I did. My list was verbal and very short. But, first and foremost was that she was to send OM a letter and end all communication with him. She was to go to counseling… I suggested a MB counselor, but if she found one she liked better, that would have been fine, too.

She came over to my house the day before she left for Phoenix. She hugged me and kissed me like she never did since we were dating. She had passion and sincerity. She commented on how excited our boys were to see us together like this. My heart softened. Later, we made love. I felt a feeling from her that I haven’t ever felt before. It wasn’t an act… it was real. And I melted.

The next day, she stopped by my work to say good-bye on her way out of town. She cried and cried. I started to cry, too. I hugged my boys and told them I love them and I will miss them terribly. They started to cry, too. She told me she loved me so much. When I came home that evening, she had left a note on my desk. It said…

[ me and son] – I love you both so very much! Let’s get dad a job somewhere and I’ll meet you there. love you both! XXXOOO [W]

She called me once that weekend from her parents house when she finally made it there. That was a week ago Saturday. She hasn’t called to talk to me since. She has called to talk to my son, though, several times. So, I had to call her last week to see what is going on. She was quite short when she talked. I asked her how she feels about things now. She said she’s not sure. I asked her if she has been talking to OM, and she said yes. In fact, she told him that she was leaving so she could get her head cleared. She kept him on a string. She told me that he wants her to come back and live with him. She was the one to call him. She made the decision to not call me, but instead call OM… even though she said she wasn’t going to talk to him ever again.

Two days later, she went back to him. Now she is cold with me again. She says she doesn't love me and wants the divorce. She doesn't even miss me. She has made her mind up and she says this time she is sure. She wants to spend the rest of her life with OM.

I can’t go through this anymore. She hurt me so very deeply this time. I saw her taking the right steps toward recovery, and it got me back in her spell. But I can’t say that I didn’t expect it. It would think that it is much easier this time than any of the other times. But it isn't. In fact, this is the most difficult one of all. This was her fourth false recovery. I cannot go through this with her any more. I will not do it again. I cannot let her in my life to cause more turmoil. I said this before, and I did quite well. I need to leave her in the past.

Lately, I’ve been idle with my Dv. But now, I’m going fast and furious to end this crazy mess. I gotta get custody of my boys, and I gotta end this marriage before she drives me insane. I don't feel that emotionally strong right now, but I don't feel that weak either. I just feel kida dazed. But I do feel like I'm recovering from this very quickly... probably since I kinda expected this. There is no doubt that I love her very, very much. I think I always will. But also I realize that I cannot be happy with this woman, and that I must finish this once and for all.

So, I'm ready for my rubber chicken slaps. I can't say that I would have handled this any other way. I don't have any regrets this time around. Its not strength that I lack, but its sorrow that I feel. I feel so sorry for her, but I know that this is her choice and must face the consequences for her actions. Redhat, you told me that I was locking the door and throwing away the key. Actually I kept the door unlocked the whole time. When I opened the door for her, she wouldn't come in. But she just kept knocking and knocking. I'm not gonna answer the door anymore.

But the story isn't over there. Yesterday I signed the custody papers. She got them today and called me. all I could do was say for her to talk to her attorney about this, not me. she called me a [censored], told me she hope I die, and hung up. I'm gonna need new strength for the next bout. The ball is rolling...

tjs