Hi m01069,

Hang in there - the ride will be rough and it sounds like you've only just begun. I agree with the poster who said it sounds as if your WH may be having a PA. The things the WS's say and do are so similiar. It does help to read that we're all basically going through the same sort of things. Try to stay off the roller coaster - detach.

Please resist the temptation to LB or try to plead or convince him. You've let him know you would consider reconciliation - so try to just leave it at that for now. (I KNOW - it's REALLY HARD to isn't it?) Whenever you contact him and tell him those things it just assures him he has even longer to fool around and expect you to still be waiting afterwards. Plus it feels like pressuring to him and makes him resist even more.
In the beginning of an affair the OP is all about romance, fun, flattery, no pressure... So it is especially crucial for you to not be all about complaining, criticizing, pressuring right now! As Shul pointed out: the OP will get around to demanding - eventually. You will have to detach and spend time improving your own life for now. And you know what? That part is really fun. It will cheer you up AND make your WS really start to worry. And THAT is what you REALLY want, isn't it? You want him to pursue you.

We can't convince them to stop the affair, work on the marriage, go to counseling, etc. But we can influence how long and painful the process is by what WE say or do. And unfortunately reacting the way we feel a strong urge to, is what makes things worse. Somebody posted a suggestion in another thread to wait 5 days before reacting to the WS's remarks/actions. Come here to discuss the way you'd want to react. The experienced posters here can give you more effective ways of dealing with it. For a while to keep from calling my WH, I kept a list of reasons why that wouldn't work by the phone.

In a way we are fighting the same sort of battle our WS's are: trying to overcome a strong urge to say and do things, that if given in to, will destroy our marriage. Except we want to save our marriage... So we have to take the initiative to learn what's effective at doing that and to behave in a counterintuitive way.
I really found it hard to follow the plans at first. It's 'not fair', it's not easy, it feels like game-playing at first, and you probably won't find much support among your family & friends - they either want you to forgive & forget or get a divorce and get-on-with-your-life.

I am taking lexapro too. Although I did notice an improvement after one month, looking back I can tell I was still pretty depressed and having trouble controlling my reactions. Now after being on it for several more months I am doing much better. I used to wake up in the middle of the night with anxiety attacks and unable to fall back asleep for hours. Now I wake up feeling so cheerful it's sort of silly. And I have no trouble falling asleep. I also am not having crying spells anymore.

Clean your house, garden, exercise, go to church, take a class, socialize with family & friends... enjoy life.

Thank you everyone. You are so helpful to me.

Do I just avoid him? We live in the same house. Do I hold back on hugs?

He told me the other day his greatest wish is for me to find a guy who will treat me better than I even imagine.

I want to tell him to just leave me alone, just leave me the f alone, go self destruct. Is that an LB?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you probably won't find much support among your family & friends - they either want you to forgive & forget or get a divorce and get-on-with-your-life.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very true, and something to beware of.

When I made up my mind to forgive and work on reconciling the relationship, I had to stop confiding in friends. When I needed to vent they would advise me to dump him, and they saw me as weak for forgiving him. The reality is that the path of forgiveness is harder than giving up. Many of my friends are bitterly divorced and it just upset me and set me back.


Shul

Actually my friends and family are great! They have all said they will support whatever decision I make, as I make them.

I have the oposite problem, they are great listeners, but don't give much advise at all. They always ask me "what do you want to do?'

I come here for advise.

Hopefully someone will reply to the questions above this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I just avoid him? We live in the same house. Do I hold back on hugs?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is tricky. I would say don't chase him around when you need a hug, but if he seems to need one, don't reject him. Don't avoid him, but don't chase him either. Be attentive to his needs, try to anticipate his needs, but don't fawn on him (annoying). Give him a little breathing room. You might have to forgo your own needs for a while.

Its a very good sign that he is willing to go for counseling., btw.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He told me the other day his greatest wish is for me to find a guy who will treat me better than I even imagine.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(I detect remorse here. All to the good.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to tell him to just leave me alone, just leave me the f alone, go self destruct. Is that an LB?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it is!!! lol

Seriously, it sounds like you need some space to vent and cry (away from him) and do some forgiving. Go for a walk and let it out. Until you forgive him, you are going to have these feelings of anger and hurt. They will get in the way of reconciliation. But if you forgive him you will heal and be able to work this in a positive loving way.

Shul

Shul

Thanks for the thought out advise.

H is going to counseling for 2 reasons:

1. He was living in his truck, he was allowed to return home under that agreement.

2. Now he is home he admitted he will go but doesn't have any want to go. He says he will go to explore our avenues and he will listen to what the Dr has to say. (We went to 2 appts. prior and he only "listened" to what he wanted to hear) and then came to conclusion he wanted a divorce.

H wants us to live together for the kids, lead seperate lives.

I wear my emotions on my sleeve, always have. I will try to behave. No I WILL BEHAVE!

H called me at work, he wants to go out on the ATV's with the kids tonight!

Yes, you all are thinking "good sign", but this is what he is doing to me, playing ping pong with my emotions.

IF I were to ask him (which I will not), but if I did make a comment like he is trying with us, he would reply that he's not trying for us as a married couple, but us as friends.

i HAVE FALLEN FOR THAT TRAP BEFORE, CAN YOU TELL?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes, you all are thinking "good sign", but this is what he is doing to me, playing ping pong with my emotions.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or he might just be experiencing some emotional pingpong himself. He probably doesn't know what he wants, he is confused, feeling hurt but willing to try. It doesn't sound like he is deliberately trying to mess with you. Why not just go with it?

And he is right about being friends first- you probably need to work on that part of your relationship, kind of like being with each other the way we are when we first meet-just having fun and getting to know each other (although I wouldn't push the getting to know each other right now- concentrate on the having fun part.)

See if you can get him to laugh. So often when things are strained we just want to get away from the whole thing, and not be constantly reminded of the Problems, you know?

So work at making this really fun tonight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i HAVE FALLEN FOR THAT TRAP BEFORE, CAN YOU TELL?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it feels like same old same old, but maybe he's really giving this a shot. Otherwise why would he bother? Why not forgive the past hurts right now and put the past behind you? You have nothing to lose, actually, and everything to gain if you do. When we look for trouble it can become a self fulling prophecy...

It kind of sounds like he is working on forgiveness and a new start. Why not meet him halfway?

It's so hard to treat your H like a friend only. I find that the hardest concept. We had a dream relationship that came crashing to a halt on 1/06 in 30 seconds with his "I was never in love with you" speech.

When I see him I want to kiss and hug him like I have done for 15 years, and he won't allow it.

It's really hard to make him laugh these days,

I know how much it hurts to be rejected. There is a reason he is doing this. Maybe to gain some distance while he sorts out his feelings?

I don't put much stock in the whole 'in love' business, personally.

We generally mean something else by that. It may be that he felt excitment, attention, lust, with the o/w but none of those things have to do with the kind of love that makes for a healthy mutual relationship. They are feelings,and feelings come and go like the weather, whereas love is caring for someone else's needs in tangible and intangible ways, even at the cost of our own comfort.

I think it is important for lovers to be friends first, to be able to talk and share and trust.

It was hard for me at first to see my husband as a friend. I had to give up my expectations and simply see him as someone I care about. But that had made a big difference in how I relate to him. It is much easier to love him without lovebusting when you have no expectations.

I don't know if you are a believer, but we are instructed to exchange love for hatred, expecting nothing in return. It is grace, just like how God loves you. Think of it as an opportunity to grow in love.

I hope you have a good night.

You make some very good points. I really like the one to love without expectations....Expect nothing in return. That's nice.

We went out on the ATV's. When we do that there's not really any contact, we are on bikes riding through the woods. But it's something we all really enjoy.

I had bought H a shirt he's been wanting that I found. H coldly said "thank You". He really wanted this shirt too.

I went to a mutual friends house last night to get their insight (they are our parents age and have known us for the 15 years we've been together)

They agreed that H always adored me, nothing he says makes sense.

I wish I could help him out of this and bring him back to happiness, that is my wish.

I went to MC appt today w/out H (H had to work).

I explained the going on's to the counselor. MC says that what H is saying and doing is inconsistant. (My H is saying/doing status quo of affair)

MC says I am very smart and have a good head on my shoulders and have my priorities straight. I told this to H when he got home and he said "I know you are smart, have your head on your shoulders." I said "Well, one of us doesn't then". H says, "I have my head on my shoulders too" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> (Go figure!!!)

The ball is basically in my H's court (scary thought).

MC will coach us but H needs to be willing. H and I are scheduled to go Next Thurs together.

I asked H if he would go to my Mom's house Easter after work. H says "No, I don't think so, I'll just come home". I said "That's your choice, the girls and I will be at my Mom's".

Again, his feelings go ahead of being with his kids. That really urks me!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I will be honest.

I am hearing some bitterness from you, and I suspect he is too.

This is natural but it will get in the way of the relationship.

If he is really trying to give this one last shot, you need to consider his needs first, ahead of the kids even. Plan A calls for radical love.

Are you sure you have forgiven him?

I forgive him everyday. But then he gives me that one more cold look, cold shoulder and I shutter..

H went to a meeting tonight. Now, in the past, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.. But with our current situation, I don't know what to think.

I saw him cleaning out his truck before he left. H NEVER CLEANS HIS TRUCK.

I just said "drive carefully". H made comment to kids that he would be home way, way, way after they go to bed.

I always trusted my H to the core. I was never an accusing wife and look where it got me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Have you read the 180's?
I got this off http://www.divorcebusting.com. I hope
this helps. DivorceBusting suggests doing a 180.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I always trusted my H to the core. I was never an accusing wife and look where it got me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I find myself doing the same things. Tonight when I called my h the line was busy in his room and I immediately panicked and wondered if he was talking to another woman.

But accusing and being suspicious is self defeating. Try not to dwell on what if's. He is there with you, you have a chance to love him. Don't assume the worst.

I think the 180 is a good idea. It is good to give them space.

What it came down to for me was that no matter what he does I still choose to love him, no strings. I don't own him, I am just here to love him. Now I am able to see past my hurt and to see his needs, his hurts.

Shul

You are very wise. I am trying. But one of my H's complaints (among many) was that when kids came along he would go to show me affection and I would push him aside (I didn't mean to, kids start crying and I guess I would push him away and go running to them)

H never initiates affection now (sex is non existant per his request)

I fear the 180 concept would further it in his mind that what he is doing is right.

I do hug him on occasion now ( a couple times a day), but I made a personal vow to myself to stop the crying, begging, pleading. What ever happens, happens. I am doing my best.

Dear M01069,

I have read several MB threads where 180 divorce busting was used. Most just took a few of the 180 Degreee concepts and tried to work with a few at a time. They tried to find things to change, and work on the few things. One of the benefits described is that by changing, you are showing your H that you can change. One of the reasons often used by a partner seeking a divorce is that their spouse will never change. If you demonstrate that you can change, this takes away one reason supporting the idea of divorce. Is there anything else you can think of to change? Refusing to cry and beg seems like a good start, that would be in line with the Stop Your Divorce concepts also.

Just wanted to give you a supportive comment.

Blessings

M,

It is odd that he has cut off the sex. I wonder if he is feeling guilty about something? Depressed? Hurt? Something is bothering him,I think.


I think you can deal with this. Maybe start to dress a little seductively, be inviting. Don't initiate affection for a few days, just be alluring. Maybe send the kids off one night, and make him a nice supper. Keep the conversation light, maybe massage his neck a little when you are passing by. Entice him just a bit...be very gentle with him.

180 I think I can attempt all except not saying I love you. This is something we have done for 15 years, no matter how angry. He still says it to me.

As far as the no sex. I've tried some gentle things. Nada!! He says it's just not there anymore for him. (feelings for me) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />