would he tell you each day how much he loves you? Would he call you every day at work? Would he tell you he wouldn't make it a week without you and the kids? Would he constantly hug and kiss and pet you? Would he worry about you driving in bad weather? Would he make long-term plans with you? Would your son say "Mom, I thought he loved you even more than us"? When out of town on a business trip, would he call and say how much he missed you and couldn't wait to get home? Would he say at least once a week "You're a good wife, baby" or "I'm very proud of my wife"? Would he tell you how good or sexy you look all the time? Would he hold hands with you all the time? When joking around, would he say "I would never cheat on you"? Those are just samples. This was my H right up until he began his affair. Now I hear how he was unhappy and our marriage was not what it should have been and how we couldn't get along. What should I believe?<P>AD

A.D.,<BR> Would a wife tell you she loves you all the time?Would she call you at work and say"Hi,Sweetie!"?Would she praise you everytime you built her something?Would she talk about your future together?These are what she did,before her affair started.Then she said she had been"unhappy for years",and was only"acting and pretending".She said she told me what I wanted to hear.She hadn't loved me,or felt close to me"for years".She didn't think of me as"a real husband".What am I suppose to believe? That our 22 years together was just an illusion?Or that the OM brainwashed her into believing these things,and she has re-written marital history?I choose to believe the latter.I choose to believe that she's about five cans short of a six-pack right now.I believe she's on a romantic high,and will probably come crashing down one day.How long were you married?You knew your H probably better than anyone.What do you feel in your heart is the real truth? --Murph

This part of it. I guess they have to make up reasons to satisfy their guilt so everything was bad. It isn't /wasn't. It is just part of the addiction. They only see what was bad and blow it out of proportion. It is there way of dealing with what they are doing. They only want to see the bad we only want to see the good. I know it has taken me awhile to admit to the bad times. BUt I do know that the good times have to out number the bad times or the marriage wouldn't have lasted as long as they did. They way they tell it, it is like they were in a different marriage then you. It is all part of the symptoms. You will find everyone on the board has had their spouse tell them the same thing. That the marriage was never good or it was all bad. I don't know if they have a mental block or just can't deal with what is happening to them so they have to tell themselves that it was bad.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Already divorced,<P>The answer is yes to your questions, believe him somewhat. He could have been doing these things to reach out to you. As an act of desperation, but feeling that the marriage was slipping away. <P>How did you respond to the behaviors you listed? Was it sort of "Yeah well that is nice honey, but I have some things to do?" Did you respond to him in the same way as he was approaching you, with love and affection? Or was he part of the schedule with the kids, the house, school, whatever?<P>If he was part of the funiture, then when the affair started it would be easy to rewrite history, because his efforts to reach out failed as far as he was concerned.<P>I am not blaming you. But you asked how could it be? And the answer is very easily. His reaching out was the last effort as he felt himself drawing away. You might reasonably ask, why didn't he say something. His response might be I tried doing something and it did not work. Then I met OW, and she appreciated me.<P>AD, it can work that way. He did love you but was losing a grip on the marriage at the same time. Once OW entered the picture the things he was fighting become the central view of the marriage. All else is forgotten. He probably felt you no longer loved him.<P>I am not sure I helped here, but believe me the events I listed could well have happened.<P>God Bless<P>JL

I think Just Learning is very insightful here and I think this is what my husband believes when he says "I tried and just gave up". We disconnected on this and I think it's both our responsibilities. I didn't draw him out even though I sensed some issues and he didn't make sure that the message was communicated successfully or that I understood the seriousness. So when I say to him "the issues haven't even been communicated, never mind worked on" and he says "I tried my best, it was hopeless and I gave up", I can understand the two perspectives, even though it's an impasse.<BR> <BR>These kinds of disconnects are reasons why formerly good marriages can go bad. BUT it still doesn't excuse having an affair, choosing not to work on the marriage, refusing to talk about what happened, telling lies, evasions, and misleading statements, becoming hostile and withdrawn, and leaving children and responsibilities behind. Many of us betrayed have signficant responsibility for what went wrong in the marriage, but we didn't make the DELIBERATELY HURTFUL AND INCONSIDERATE choices that the betrayers did. For the most part, we made our mistakes unknowingly and would have done better if we understood what we were doing. That's why we're all here.

HI AD,<P> I have to disagree with JL somewhat...what he said could be true but the spouse really could've been fairly happy and once the affair started (for whatever reason, depression, feeling old, the excitement) he became extremely unhappy . I have found Frank Pittman's(Private Lies) description of the change in thinking very helpful ....he claims marriages "get rewritten" by the betrayer and the betrayer and will spend alot of time convincing himself and others of how awful things were.<BR> AD, have you read the section in Private Lies of those spouses that just up and walk out? (like your situation) . He said the one left finds it very hard to deal with since there are so many questions etc. and he claims alot of times there wasn't a whole lot that could've been done.....it is the betrayers problem....I just think you got dumped on big time and now he(your ex) is trying so hard to justify everything.I hope you can find some peace within yourself over this.....you didn't get any kind of chance to change the outcome......LU

Distressed, I have to agree with you. There is one question that has never been answered in a way that I can understand (either by my husband or anything I have read).<P>Say that there is a marriage that was once good. Now both partners are not communicating well and both are adding to the problems of the marriage. Neither one comes out and says anything. Eventually one partner decides that the unhappiness has gone beyond the boundaries that he or she can stand. At this point, the unhappy spouse decides to have an affair (or "falls" into it or "it just happens" or whatever). If things are so bad that they don't see a way for them to ever be happy in that marriage again, why not just file for divorce? Having a secret affair at that point is just a craven, cowardly, selfish, self-centered act. <P>Both partners are to blame for the breakdown, but only one has gotten to the point where he or she can not tolerate it. The other partner has obviously not reached that point or they would have left or started an affair, too. It seems despicable to "leave" a marriage without telling the person that you once couldn't live without that you are going to do so. Just as the betrayer is making decisions about the direction his life will be taking, the betrayed needs the knowledge and time to do the same. That is only common courtesy. To do otherwise is to think of one's partner as an infant, mentally deficient or a dumb animal.<P>I'm sorry to have ranted on. My H and I have been reconciling for a year now and are doing pretty well. This is the point that still bothers me - If things are so bad, why not file for divorce and be free to follow your dreams? I don't keep bringing it up with him because I don't want to hammer on him about something that is in the past. Unfortunately, the question still floats through my mind on a regular basis.<P>Can anyone answer this question?<BR>

Sorry to hop in on your post AD, but I wanted to address Dancer's question. Now, this is just an opinion.<P>I think it's a lot more complicated than all that. And I honestly don't believe that most spouses "decide" or even really realize they're heading toward an affair until the infatuation has taken over. <P>A lot of these justifications are crap, or a new way of thinking (or not thinking as the case may be) - we all know that. But, you know, I've given this a whole lot of thought (and who of us hasn't) and I came up with another theory too - for those of us with more or less "good" marriages.<P>I believe that "something" WAS missing. Maybe not so much to cause deep unhappiness, nothing that either partner could put their finger on, but something was missing. But both spouses felt they were in a pretty good relationship. And some other person, accidently or on purpose, touched that need. Filled it. Low and behold a friendship is born. But, for most of us, a friendship is NOT something we run away from. But a new feeling was awakened. One that had been gone for a while. And I don't believe it's so much the newness of the partner as the newness of THAT feeling and how it seemed to be the missing piece.<P>Well, Harley spells it out from there. Continued contact, deepening friendship - here comes infatuation. And before you know it, an affair is off and running. Before we know it and, I believe, before our spouses even know it. And yes, the thinking changes. 'Cause this feels so good, the marriage must not have been as good as they thought. <P>So, no, our spouses hadn't considered divorce before. Didn't even realize what they didn't have, I don't think. Certainly no complaints to warrant ending a marriage over. Until they get themselves in the huge mess and confuse what they're feeling with real and solid love. By now they're not even trying to think straight. It's all basic. Human nature. Unconsciously we behave in the way that rewards us the most in the way that we NEED it the most. <P>And disaster follows. <P>In most instances, I don't believe our spouses felt they should dissolve the marriage beforehand. In most instances, I don't think our spouses premeditated ANYTHING. In most instances, I don't think they ever would have hurt us. And in most instances, there was SOMETHING missing. And they didn't recognize it, we didn't see it. Until it was too late. <P>Just say no. I have changed my way of thinking. We've all had needs unmet. We've all wanted to be appreciated more. And a lot of us have said "no" before. But, maybe, just maybe, the conditions weren't quite right. Maybe, just maybe, in another time and place, under just the right pressure, we may not have been strong either. <P>Oh, well, my 2 cents.<P>Lori

A very good question.....and very insightful comments.<P>I found for a year that something was wrong in the marraige and kept on talking to EH. His answer was "I want to eat out every night and travel every other weekend and hang out in bars with single friends(he did not have any at this point other than OW)" So...he was bored with a family life and did not want to socialize with our friends who he called boring and sponges! So what to do for excitement...have an affair with a young and responsibility free bim@o who could do all of these hedonistic things with. He could then invent this idea that I was not good enough for him etc. etc and reinvented the marriage which had been good for both of us until he overstepped the bounds. EH was the last person I ever believed would have an affair that was so self destructing. <BR>At this point he is still with OW and will continue to be with her until he finds it is not all it is cracked up to be......and I have not waited but planned B'd him since June and in the process of divorcing him.<BR>It is all our loss (4 kids and me) but in the long run we will be fine, he will not until he searches inside himself.<P>I have not believed a word he said for so long, his lies about the marriage were just that..justification for himself to assuage his guilt. But no marriage of over 20 years is pewrfect and i know I was less than perfect, but the mess would not have occured had he not chosen to have an affair and dealt with it as he did. Wanted it all, but wanted to give zero and emotional abuse is not something I could stand for. <P>

My H did in factthe night he told me he didnt love me and wanted a divorce I called him before I left work and the last thing he said is "I love you drive careful the roads are bad" <BR>Lesa<P>------------------<BR>Take care and God Bless.<P><BR>

sorry hit submit twice <BR>Lesa<P>------------------<BR>Take care and God Bless.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by LMS (edited January 06, 2000).]

If my ex was unhappy prior to the affair, I don't think he realized it himself. All the actions I described in my question were the actions he had demonstrated all thru our marriage. I was just as affectionate with him. We used to talk about his sister and her husband and how their marriage didn't seem as happy as ours. He was always very critical of men that did what he has done. When his affair began, before I knew what was going on, I saw a change in him. He seemed very detached and irritable. This behavior was directed more at the kids than at me. He told me right after the discovery that he was happy in December, but by April (after affair<BR>began) he was unhappy. He also told me in the beginning if I hadn't caught him, he would have never left. Now he says he would have left eventually and was never happy. How does any of this make sense? Another question, if something is so wrong with these marriages as all betrayers say, why do so many of them regret it later?<P>AD