<br>My 45-year-old husband has virtually changed overnight, to me anyway. In October he started becoming distant. When I realized there was a problem, I aksed him about it. He said he just wanted out, wanted a DIVORCE. We had never used that word in all our married years, never had big fights or conflicts we couldn't work out. To everyone in our family and church, we would be the very last ones to be seeking a divorce. I was totally shocked, hurt, confused. He said he never loved me!! I immediately asked who "she" was. He says there is no one else, but he hopes there will be in the future. The youngest of our three children just started college and he says we can do our own thing now. He is a Christian, was a deacon in the church (resigned recently), questions right and wrong. He wants me to agree to a dissolution of the marriage. I will not. I want to seek counseling and see what in the world is wrong. This is dragging on. He now sleeps in the basement and says he's moving out soon, but hasn't gone yet. We have very little communication and I'm heartbroken. I'm trying not to give in to my feelings which is to slap him and drag him to counseling. He told me if I felt I needed counseling to seek it; he certainly didn't need it. I do still love him, but I feel like it's fading fast with all the rejection I continually receive. If he's having an affair, I have no evidence of it and he is hiding it well from me and everyone who works closely with him. (He works with my brother in business.) I feel he's in the midst of a severe mid-life crises, have read books on it and other marital subjects as well, but nothing is helping me cope. I am getting close to wanting to give in and give up but I don't believe it's the right thing to do. Yet, my faith is so weak. I feel there is no hope for us because in these months I have not seen any change in his attitude. He is not openly mean, but the lack of communication when we used to commicate openly and the continual questioning of me, "If you love me, you would help me get out of this miserable life we're leading." Any help would be greatly appreciated.<p>Signed: Unloved.

Hi Teresa,<p>I am not sure if I can help you here..but I will try my hardest...<p>Seems like your husband has a fixation of some sort in his mind that he maybe is unhappy because of his marriage to you and that the answer for him is to divorce you....like you said seems like it could be a mid life crisis problem...and of course with all problems that we do not want to own as ours we all tend to blame something outside of ourselves and run in what we percieve is the opposite direction to its percieved cause...in this case you/his marriage...he of course will soon find that the problems that caused this will go with him..there is no escape by running away from yourself...unfortunate as this may seem its upside is that you will both be much stronger as a result of facing this painful time...<p>I think that unless he sees that the cause is probably a long time before you were on the scene....or that his own pereceptions created the discontent that lies within him...or....that he has more to lose by ending the relationship than he can gain...he will continue to pursue the path he has chosen...now as to what you can do to perhaps change that around..? hmmmm difficult, as there has to be two to tango to make it work....but here are my suggestions...first a little understanding...<br>1.He is using the continual phrase " if you love me you would do something to help me to get out of this miserable existence" ? This gives a clue as to what he thinks about his existence with you....it is also an attempt at manipulation and to shift to you the blame and responsibility for what he wants to do...<br>2. He has an advantage over you in that he has been thinking about this for a long time and has gone thru a bit of his pain/trauma about separating so is 'better prepared' so to speak....while you have just learnt about it and are going thru pain shock hurt and rejection while he can sit back and see how things go...<br>3. All marriages go thru crisis of some sort in order to learn and to grow as people to find self, and to reflect back to us the things we least like to see in ourselves...and sometimes it takes a good hard boot to get us to see that...<p>Suggestions<br> 1.<p>Use the opportunity to get/talk to him when he says "if you love me you would....etc" by saying...." I do love you..!! and I was not the one that was miserable or living in a miserable existence until you told me you wanted a divorce!!! And its because I love you is why I want to get to the bottom of it to fix it, not by running away from it....!!! Not to get it back to where it was before this happened..but to get it where neither of us is miserable and living in a miserable marriage that neither of us wants!!!! <p> 2.<p>That you write down all the events in your marriage that were good, the fun times, the children...the struggles the triumphs, the sharing...the caring everything you can think of and add to this list as much as you can....then when you have a long long list...read it to him...and ask him if he did not feel the same things..? did not see the same things..? etc etc...and is that what he wants to give away..? could he still say he was miserable in all of that..?<p> 3<p>Make a list of all your assets financial and otherwise and put a value on them...tell him that this is what the two of you have worked to have together...and is he prepared to lose it to seek a happiness he can never find by running away from himsielf...!!! as it is not you he is running from....but from the pain he feels that he wants you to take the blame for...<p> 4.<p>Tell him there is more future in his staying than there is in his going...because of not only what he will lose...but what he will gain by staying...that you will both be much wiser....more supportive of each other after this...more loving as a result of working together to overcome this crisis....more caring and more experienced...and when you work together you will find the shortcomings in your relationship together and have a good chance of working them out to the satisfaction of both parties...<p>I know there are two sides to every marriage and many facets to look at, but believe if you have faith in your God and yourself and ask for help from both...it will be forthcoming...and whatever is right for you and your husband will be so despite yourselves...I wish you the best of luck and hope that you will get to a place of peace in your heart no matter what the outcome...thank you for listening if you still are... Bye and best wishes...cossie.. ) j_580@hotmail.com<br>

Thank you, Cossie, for your response. I have considered some of the things you suggested and some are new (like making a list in writing of the good times--I've done that in my mind but not on paper).<p>As you can imagine, I'm riding the roller coaster. I think I could deal with everything that he has said except the part about he has never loved me in the 30 years we have been together. I have read book after book saying this is an expected response from someone wanting out, but it's still hard to deal with in my mind. And I know he has not lived that lie all these years, but in the back of my mind, I wonder, has he? Have I been that big of fool? Did he use me up in that way to get to this point so he can go be "free" and leave me to pick up the pieces? I try not to dwell on these thoughts, but they are there.<p>Everytime I say in my mind, I'm giving up, it's no use, I read or hear in a song or sermon something that speaks directly to me not to give up hope. If love seeks the good of another, then I have to believe that it would not be good for my husband to have to give up what he's earned in reputation, financially, and the love and respect of his family and friends.<p>Thanks again for your response. I will print it out and give it much consideration. I appreciate your time and thoughts.<p>T.

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Hi Teresa, I am still new to this..so its taken me this long to find you again and I am not sure that this will post...I have tried twice and failed so heres hoping...<P>I dont think it is possible to live with someone for that long without loving them...and if he didnt love you he would have left a long time ago...and if he doesnt love you now why is he still there..?? It is possible he is saying that to ..1. Justify his decision to leave....2. To alleviate his guilt....3. to convince himself he is justified in feeling the way he does...4 to open the way to lay the blame at your feet...(ie: you did not fulfill my needs etc etc etc..)<P>Everyone has needs but along with those comes a responsibilty to communicate them to the other without expectation...we are all individuals and think differently so the adjustment to each others needs is a two way street....not a reason to behave like a jerk or to just up and have an affair.... or say I dont love you.... as an excuse to leave because he feels his needs were not met by the other partner...unless you can read minds this is a real poor way to vent ones frustrations.....<BR>Communication here is paramount if problems are to be avoided...one cannot just pick up or guess what the other needs right at this time...none of us are that good...and its something every couple will have to learn at sometime or another....or will be forced upon them in ways that are not so pleasant or painless...as you are finding out... <P>I dont think you have been played for a fool..or that the life you have had has led or shared together is the problem that has led to this point....<BR>Men stray for varying reasons....and most dont come to a crisis point until they are in the fading stages of accomplishment..meaning they have gone out and have got their careers and family etc established...this brings them to what I would call a life reckoning...some call it mid life crisis...this is where he begins to realise he is closer to his death than to his birth...amd wonders about his attractiveness and his lost youth..so starts the preening and flirting etc....it also can make him wonder about what he has missed out on...and starts to find fault with his spouse to give him the courage and justification for his thoughts....he can file a whole lot of these demeaning thoughts about his spouse and build up in his mind a good case for leaving her.....or to behave in other nasty ways towards her and treat her badly....<BR>Another can be his young painful memories of separation from Mom ...his first love...if he had an experience of separation from her that was particularly painful to him then he would fear loving any woman too closely...so if he loved you he would fear intimacy in this case and would then do something to put distance between you ..so an affair is the ideal way of doing this...he succeeds in getting the distance that makes him feel safe..and has a back up comfort ..port in a storm..safe haven in the ow...if his spouse throws him out....he would of course feel that his affair with the ow is the greatest thing and he feels so free with her and may also think he married the wrong woman ect....but all will probably crash around his ears when he takes on the responsibilities that go with a committed relationship...<P>Only you will know when to give up...the memories of how he used to be once with you....the nice gentle person he was...the good kind and reliable humourous man he was...and the good times together...the struggles you and he have had facing the storms together with the same objective in mind....these are some of the things that make you want to stay and work it out and hope for a new beginning...this is understandable... <P>Have faith Teresa....your God and higher self will not let you down....if this relationship is meant to continue then these are but a few mere lessons along the way and you will both benefit tremendously by their teachings....if its not meant to be then no matter how much effort you both put in...the lessons have already been learned and its time to move on....this you will know and hear if you be still enough to listen to the gentle whisper of your own truth from deep within you...<P>Allow the quietness and soft silky essence of positive spiritual energy that surrounds you to descend upon your being delicately infusing you with its love and light.... be gentle with yourself...despite how you may feel you are loved more that you think you are....<P>Cossie...

New name: formerly TPF.<P>Things are no better, only more confusing. After giving more space than anyone needs, I finally broached the questions this weekend: Where do we go from here? He said he didn't know. He has seen a lawyer; he said he can't afford to move out and can't afford to stay (why, I didn't ask). He went back to the I was a coward when I married you, never should have stuff. When I asked if I could do anything, he said I could shoot him and put him out of his misery. He also said I could move out and give him time to think!! I only listened and was very empathetic. I asked him if my moving out would cause him to rethink this whole thing, he only said, it would give him more time to think about what HE wants to do. Sorry, but I'm not leaving to make it easier for him to do whatever it is he wants to do. I had every intention of asking about a 3rd party, but he genuinely seemed distressed, so I didn't. He spoke of our children and how good God had been to us in blessing them and said if it wasn't for them he'd just run off and never come back. I don't think he'll run because I firmly believe he has another interest and I have plenty evidence of that. But I did not bring that up.<P>My 21-year-old daughter asked me about her dad: Have you all talked yet? I told her how he was, how pitiful he seemed and how sorry I felt for him, telling him again how much I loved him and was willing to do anything to work things out. She says he was acting and trying to get me feel sorry for him. He called her last night and told her he wanted ME to move out and hoped I wasn't expecting a free ride from this! What in the world?<P>So I remain confused. I did see a lawyer this weekend. She advised me to file a petition of divorce on him for constructive desertion since he had left the marital bed, etc. I can't do it. If he wants to divorce me, he'll have to do it and then and only then will I answer it. I'm not in denial, I'm just trying to live with my conscience and have no regrets wherever this goes.<P>Thanks for your comments. Am I doing the right thing?

edited<BR><p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

I have read Dr. Dobson's book, Tough Love. Actually, it was the first book I read when all this started. I don't think I have expressed how it all began. <P>I had been noticing a drawing away, something unexplained. One night, 10-30, he was on his computer when I went in to hug him good night. As I went to hug him around the neck as he sat looking at the computer he had just pulled up his email and there was a message that simply said, "Don't e-mail me in the morning. Chris will be using the computer." It was signed by our neighbor (Chris is her boss.) I didn't say anything, just went to bed, but it kept going through my mind all night. Anyway, the next morning, a Sat., he left early for a service call and I went to send him an e-mail at work to have a good day, etc. When I pulled up the email, it always shows the previous messages, but that message was not there. I looked in the deleted files and it was there along with many, many more that were shocking and heartbreaking. I won't go into it. I should have copied them or saved them, but there were so easily accessible, I just immediately erased them permanently for fear our son who was home for the weekend from college, might see them. (The computer was accessible to all in the family.)<P>I was in such shock, I couldn't cry. I went to my bookshelf a while later, and the only book I could find was the Tough Love one and I read it speedily that day. AT nightfall, I confronted him with what I had found and questioned if he loved me or her. He just said he didn't know to any and every question. He turned it all against me the next day: I don't know if I can continue to live like this. My privacy has been invaded. You don't trust me, etc. I was in such shock still that I just took this and took the blame for being a nosy wife. As far as I know, I had never had a reason to doubt him or mistrust him, but now I wonder.<P>I asked him to not have any contact with this OW and he agreed, but I got phone records which showed the Monday after the confrontation he spent over 90 minutes on the phone with her that day alone. Since then it's been a constant, mostly at work, calling her at work. I've quit asking questions. He still says he wants out. I'm to the point that I don't know if we can salvage things. My trust in him is eroded. He continues to lie and I feel sure the relationship is still going on. I just don't have the hard evidence of an all out affair (physical), just an emotional one. I'm pretty sure it's more though, especially since finding a prescription for Viagra dated Feb. 3.<P>I have told him I forgive him for whatever he's done, for the hurt. But somehome I can't seem to tell him to get out even though in a way I feel it would be right at this point. I've always considered myself a strong person, and I have been strong through all of this, but I don't want to have him telling everyone I kicked him out and I don't want to air our dirty laundry. I just don't know what it will take for him to wake up. This OW is still married, lives across from us. She is 12 years younger, never has had children.<P>I've also ready Jim & Sally Conway's books, excellent, and Dr. Chapman's books, and am about read out. I'm trying to wait this fully out, but it's so hard. What I really want is for him to admit what he's done and want help. I have suggested counseling before, he is so bitterly opposed to it. I have had counseling myself and will continue.<P>Thanks for listening.

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Hello Terry, sorry about the delay in getting back to you here....I do get confused about where and who I have posted to...lol...and have a bit of trouble findin my way thru all this stuff...<P>Just a short one here..I think you are doing fine going by what you have posted...you certainly have your head straight not leaving to make it easy for him...if he is suffering then you are helping him by not being sold by his distress...he does need oto suffer to make him see into himself...thats where the problems are...and by catering to him you are not helping his or your own situation...he will need to suffer to bring him to himself....and you can do him a favour by allowing him to suffer and maybe help it a little too, by asking questions that he does need to answer....<P>I know its easier to say than to do..but you will not keep him by not asking them...nor will you lose him by asking....<P>It would be a good idea to postpone all divorce proceedings...no sense in giving money to the lawyers only to have your H say in the end I want back.....<P>There seems to be no doubt he is having an affair and has to lower you in his eyes to justify his infidelity...ask yourself why you want him to admit what you already know..? would this admission make it better for you..? would you feel triumphant by this admission..?would it give you some power over him..?<P>Perhaps it would be more effective to tell him what you know and how you found out...this is putting the cards on the table and being honest with him and yourself...?<P>Time will play a good part in this...so patience is a good friend to have...<P>Stay calm and keep yourself as peaceful as yuo can...one day at a time and stay in the present...dont traumatise yourself with things that have not happened yet...<P>highest regards...<P>cossie..xx<BR><P>------------------<BR>To know me is to know you..:)