My husband and I are both about at the end of our roads. We've been married for 6 years, and have two beautiful children. We're both very committed to staying together for the children's sake, but we both have stated that we are unhappy (and at times miserable) with each other.<p>We had another blow-up the other night, because I dared to approach him with my serious concerns about something he is doing that brings some very real risks to our family. I told him I have the right to have a say in decisions and behavior of his that affect me. He blew up at me, practically spitting with hostility. His message to me is that if he changes, it will be because I forced him to against his will (meanwhile I've been forced to bear these risks unwillingly for years).<p>I can't stand being subjected to the intense hostility he directs at me in these moods, and got upset. When I get upset and hurt, I do two things - I cry, and I lash out in anger. My anger outbursts have been part of our problem for years, we're both aware of them, and I have worked over the last 2 years with some success to control them.<p>Meanwhile my husband refuses to admit his role in our problems, much less change his behavior. He spent the day after our outburst sulking and moping around the house, sending clear signals that he felt victimized. When I confronted him with his behavior (which was making the children uncomfortable), he confirmed that he felt thoroughly victimized. I told him I would not accept being typecast in the role of "the bad guy" with him playing "the innocent victim", and reminded him that I had been reacting to his hostile outburst. He now denies that he even did it! It's bad enough to be subjected to his hostile outbursts and constant disrespect. But when he pulls this "Oh, poor me, I'm being tortured by my evil wife" business, I just get SO angry! Which doesn't help me control my outbursts, since I walk around most of the time just simmering right under the surface.<p>After going through this website last night, I found some very good insights to our problems. While I clearly am engaging in destructive anger outbursts, so is he (but his outbursts are more subtle than mine, so less obvious to him). He also engages in disrespectful judgements (which I have complained to him about for years), while I have a very high emotional need for admiration. And he is very controlling, in that he minimizes and trivializes my feelings and concerns. He pretty much does whatever he wants, while I have to put up with it or be labelled as controlling by him.<p>We went to a counselor for a little while before the birth of our second child, but it wasn't very helpful. He felt affirmation from the counselor in his belief that I am the problem - that if I could just be "nice", everything would be OK. He quit going after just a couple of sessions, since he felt that I was the one who needed to work on things, not him. (BTW, the counselor also pointed out his role in things, but he only heard what he wanted to hear.)<p>I've been gently advised by three different counselors (the above-mentioned counselor, my midwife, and a counselor at our Women's Crisis Center) to separate from him - if nothing else, just as a way to force the issue (of his needing to take up his share of the burden of working things out). I did in fact leave for a few days last fall, but we don't have enough money for me to rent another place (besides, I own our home - why should I have to pay rent somewhere else?!) It was also very damaging to the children.<p>I am tired of always being the bad guy. I'm tired of his hostility. I'm tired of always being the one to try to work things out. He thinks that if I would just "try to be nice", things would be OK. I'm tired of being patronized, insulted, and used. He does whatever he wants, while I have to be the reponsible adult.<p>He won't even look at the columns of Dr. Harley's that I printed out from the website last night. He regards marriage counseling and any kind of self-help work on marriage to be beneath him. At this point I feel like I don't have any kind of relationship with him other than as the father of my children. I don't want to live in a dead relationship, but I'm worried about my children.<p>I hope someone can offer me some hope to grasp onto, because right now I feel like my alternatives are either separate or suffer.<br>

Hi Mominthewoods:<p>My wife and I separated due to the kind of behavior your experiencinf. I have been doing all sorts of "worK' on myself but my wife has done zero. Our 15 yr.old daughter is now using the separation against both of us. Earlier tonight my wife said "I can't live with you...everyone is taking your side"<br>I am an emotional mess and yet she expects me to earn for both her and the children and myself. I have been sleeping on the floor of a basement, w/o toilet, shower etc. for 6 months now. If I improve this there will be less money for her and girls and she thniks she will sue. I am already paying more than any court will award her but I want to reconcile and get on with our lives. She wants to live in the past "you said this..."<p>It's too bad if your H is not interested in learning how to treat you (I was unwilling until the divorce action kicked my butt and turned my life around) If you can get him (and you) to read "Marriage-The High Calling" at this site: www.sigler.org/roach<br>you maye be able to turn things around? Good Luck!<p>Gary

Mom,<p>I'm going to question the wisdom of a separation at this point: it appears to me that you are perceived as the "bully" in your marriage, and a separation will only serve to reinforce that (at least initially). And after you separate, what's his motivation to work on the marriage?<p>I'm going to suggest that you call Steve Harley at Marriage Builders and arrange some counseling for you. If your husband will do it, great. But my MAJOR recommendation would be to talk with Steve (I have used him for over a year, he's great!). He'll probably help set up a plan for you do deal with this.<p>In lieu of Steve's input, I would suggest that you order the books "Give and Take", "His Needs/Her Needs", and "Lovebusters" from this site. Those are in the order of my suggested preference, if you don't want the library all at once. You've got some reading and studying to do.<p>It sounds like you're going to immediately need to do a couple things. The first one is to eliminate your lovebusters! No more angry outbursts. Period. The second thing I would attempt is to learn about the policy of Joint Agreement, and then discuss it with your husband. I'm sure he's not going to feel like doing it, but you can paraphrase it to say <br>"well, I want to try to make sure that I NEVER benefit at YOUR expense, dear..."<p>I suggest that you give your husband a Lovebuster's questionnaire to fill out (if he wants), and then ask that he go over it with you. He may not want to, but point out to him that for YOU to change the way you treat him, you need to have information about how HE feels. Tell him that you're willing to try to eliminate these destructive behaviors, but you rather have him help you than try to do it "in the dark".<p>If he is willing, you are to let him go over the entire worksheet. Pay attention, take notes. Don't defend yourself, interrupt (except if something isn't clear), get angry. These are HIS feelings, they're the truth as far as he sees it. You need to be respectful of that. I would then suggest that you make a plan to eliminate the top one or two: identifying the situations that cause you to do it (no excuses...), and making sure that you're accountable for your actions.<p>Well, this sounds like YOU, YOU, YOU---doesn't it! What about HIM???<p>The bottom line is that you can only change yourself. You can influence your husband, but the best way to do that (IMO) is to show your husband the advantages to doing so. By going along this path, you will be exposing him to the Harley concepts, and teaching him (by observation) the correct way to behave. And if you are successful, he will feel more "in love" with you, and probably start to treat you better. And at some point, he may be willing to take the first step and start eliminating some of his lovebusters, too.<p>If I were counseling you, that's what I'd tell you. But I'm just a guy who's been through the program. The program works, BTW: I suggest that you call Steve.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited 03-01-99).]

Hi Mominthewoods,<p>First of all, DO NOT SEPERATE AGAIN!! Seperation only adds to the already painful experience you and your family are going through. Second of all, I have been where you have been, and, to some degree, am still there. About 7 months ago, my husband and I seperated. I had engaged in every love buster, with angry outbursts as my prime evil. I now realize where I went wrong in our marriage, and have tried earnestly to make amends with my husband and change my ways for the sake of our marriage and our 2-year old daughter.<br>Although, I feel as though I am sacrificing, my husband has become more and more selfish since he has returned home. However, I know that I should not fight fire with fire, but instead should be the Christian wife God wants me to be, despite his actions.<br>Please read 1Peter, chapter 3 of your bible, and this will give you a biblical approach on how you should react to your husbands behavior. Also, if your husband is willing, there is a marriage enrichment seminar hosted by Dr. Paul Faulkner and Dr. Carl Breechen of Abiline Christian University, it is a 10-hour seminar that will undoubtedly have a postive impact on the success of your marriage and the outcome of your family growth. I am not sure where you are located, but you can contact Dr. Paul Faulkner at pfaulkner1@aol.com and ask him when and where his next seminar will be. Also, please read Dr. Faulkner's book "How to Achieve Success, without failing your family" this book highlights the lifes of 10 families and gives strategies on how to handle family conflicts, discipline children effectively, and grow closer to your spouse and children.<br>I wish you and your husband the best of luck, because the environment of your home is set by you and your husband together, both of you need to be good role models for your daughter.<p>I leave you with this:<br>"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." (ICorinthians 13:4-8) Also, read Ephesians 5:21-33 with your husband, these scriptures will further define your roles in your marriage, and draw you closer in the process. Note: The success rate of marriage improves as you both grow closer to Christ.<p>God Bless You and Your home<br> P.S.e-mail me at tyt4767@acs.tamu.edu if you have any other concerns, or just want to talk<br>

This is to Gary, my husband could <BR>take a lesson from you. My <BR>husband won't even let me stay <BR>home, he insists that I work. <BR>You should show this to your wife <BR>and remind her how lucky she is <BR>to have a husband who is willing <BR>to take care of her! Remind her <BR>that it is incredibly noble of <BR>you to bear all of the financial <BR>responisbility. I think she <BR>should be grateful and take great <BR>strides to make your home happy <BR>and comfortable for you.

edited<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

\<p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]

Wow - quite a range of responses. I really appreciate all of you taking the time to help me with this situation. It's a tough one. We've settled into our usual truce-of-distance that follows blow-ups. He hasn't been around very much. The other day he gave the information I had printed out for him to our daughter to draw on. Meanwhile it looks like the risks he has been imposing on us are going to come to an end of their own accord, so I'm not feeling as urgent a need to get the children out. I can only hope and pray that he doesn't get us into the same situation again.<P>I still don't really know what to do. He refuses to do any work at all on the relationship, regarding it as "negativity". It's like living in an upside-down, looking-gl****kind of world being with him. I could go to him and say outright "I want you to come to counseling with me", but I know he would launch into his "here-we-go-again" rolling-of-the-eyes routine, and I'd say there's a less than 50% chance that he'll end up agreeing to go. Based on our last round of counseling, if he does go, he will have his walls up firmly in place, and will drop out after a few sessions.<P>I could give him an ultimatum - commit to a year of counseling or I'm out of here. But I've already done that - I've threatened to leave so many times (and actually done it once) that he doesn't take me seriously any more, so I've made a promise to myself that I will not threaten it again. I'll just get up and go when I get to that point.<P>While I think "K" is right about his not having any motivation to work on the marriage if I separate, I don't see how that's any different than it is now. I think it may actually be the reverse - separating may give him the motivation, because he doesn't want to lose the family. However, the last time I left, it was very hard on me. He refused to leave the house (MY house!), so I was forced to return home. He was very bullying the whole time, accusing me of irreversibly damaging the children by taking them with me. And it WAS very traumatic for them, which is why I am so resistant to leaving again.<P>Thanks, everyone, for your help. It's a great help to be able to talk about this without dragging friends and family into it.

\<BR><p>[This message has been edited by HollyAnn (edited July 07, 1999).]