This is my first post and I am not used to do this, so please bear with me. I am currently on my first (and hopefully only) marriage and have been married for 6 years. My wife and I have three children 7 months, 4 years, and 5 years. The marriage was always an I give and she takes type of relationship. My question is how do I bring my wife to the negotiation table. The quality of our marriage has been going down hill for the last 4 years and until just resently I was just a bistander to the demise of "MY" marriage. I was more or less the "Yes" man in the relationship. You see I had a wake up call, my wife went to visit her parents in another state in the latter part of July and she is finally coming back on Saturday. I have had ample time to evaluate the marriage and its shortcomings related to my needs since I have been at home by myself. Up until the vacation, my wife was the taker in our relationship. Here are a couple of instances of my giver behavior - I do the laundry for the whole familly, wash the dishes every night when I come home from work, Give the kids a bath and take care of any extrenious chores that may need to be done. On the weekend I take care of all the yard work and the children while she does her shopping and mall hopping, clean the house because of the mess from the weekday's activities. I love taking care of the children and would love to be in her position as a stay home parent, but I am not. I have to make the money. Here is my problem, I get home from work and there is more work to be done when I walk through the door. My wife makes unrulely demands on me eventhough she does nothing with the house during the week and is usually gone on the weekends spending money on herself. I know the same behavior will continue unless I do something about it, but I feel at this point, that I haven't the power to stop the self-centered behavior. Its almost like I have left the behavior go so long unchecked that now I am powerless to stop it. Where do I start????? She also disrespects me in front of family and friends and these people have also noted the self centered behavior. All of my friends wifes have nothing to do with my wife because of the way she acts.

Thanks
Slackeryoutoo

It seems you have your work cut out for you. Have you communicated to your wife how you feel? If so, what was her response? If not, I think that is where you have to start. Next, you should answer the questionnaires in the website, so you and your wife can start to understand what makes each of you happy and what makes each of you unhappy.

I am also new to this web site, and I am going to start taking some of this advise. I perceive my wife as self centered as well, however, we have started a dialog to help us work throught the issues.

Good luck!!!

Dear Slackeryoutoo,
My heart goes out to you ! But you probably would like something more,like a thought or two, right ? I am new here too, and am/have been struggling with similar issues. My first/ex husband of some 23 yrs. taught our cildren some disgraceful ways of treating me, and then my current partner has been known to take some pretty serious advantage of my soft heart.
It sounds as though you have allowed your wife "quite the time" at your expense. You seem to know that it can't go on like this without getting more and more painful. Your self-esteem has paid a terrible price already, and now you're wondering how to turn things around.I can only imagine why things have become so unequal. Did you allow it because you believed it was loving ? Did you think that one day she would realize how unfair the whole thing is and change it ? Are you afraid of losing her ? Are you afraid of losing the children ? And the list goes on.
Somewhere along the way, I believe you may have lost respect for yourself. So much of the rest follows. She may even be angry with you for NOT standing up to her! People can be pretty strange sometimes. Whatever the reason, you are understandably unhappy, but also need to look at the whole picture. Besides your wife's contempt, the next thing that will happen, is your children will start to learn "How to treat Daddy". You think life is difficult now ?.......Just wait until they are a bit older!
When you were first together , did she expect so much ? When did you first notice the behaviour? Can you relate to a time or place or something that may have been going on ? Is she trying to push you away ? If so, why? If you can find a "good moment" to ask a few simple questions, REAL questions. Do you think she would be willing to talk to you ? To listen ?
Her behaviour, on the surface looks very selfish, almost abusive, but you need to get to the bottom of why? The MB progam is very helpful, provided both partners are trying and even when it is rather one sided for a while. It helps you understand you better,gain a different perspective, and from that place you will be better able to make some good choices and decisions. One thing is apparent to me from your message - you are going to a very dark place, if you don't regain your self respect.
If we don't care about ourselves in a wholsome loving way, we can't expect anyone else to.
It's a one way ticket to hell. Start rebuilding your SELF and the rest will come. The folks on this forum have been WONDERFUL and helped me a lot. If you need more than a forum, such as professional help, do pursue it. In the end you will be happier for it and your children will learn some very important life lessons.

WOW, I didn't think I would get such good responses to my questions so quickly. Warm Ashes, let me answer some of your questions:

I need to answer the last question first so that you can understand me a little better. I will go out of my way to avoid confrontation with my wife. I would rather eat glass than argue. I have self confidence in myself and my abilities and I think that is what keeps me in the relationship. I don't believe failure is an option on my part, but she is failing me. I am the guy that will take a lot before I get angry and retaliate

Did you allow it because you believed it was loving? - Of course, I was taught by example, my mother is a very caring, selfless person. I apparently unconsciently applied this to my marriage, but the more I give the more my wife takes.

Did you think that one day she would realize how unfair the whole thing is and change it? - Not really, she has not even made a step toward changing her behavior and in fact she has become more self absorbed.

Are you afraid of losing her? - Yes, but that fear deminishes everyday I live like this.

Are you afraid of losing the children? - most definitely, but I think she wouldn't have any issues giving me the children if we were to split up.

Actually my children are the only one's that respect me in household. I think they know that I will always be there for them which is a feeling that they don't receive from their mom.

Let me explain a little about my wife's past, she was brought up in a household were her father lived in the basement of the house. Her father would get home from work and after dinner head down to the basement where he would continue to work on things in his shop. Her father at one time was unfaithful to her mother and I believe this is how he avoided her wrath. I believe that her past plays a big roll in our relationship. She does not trust people except her mother and will question my actions whenever possible. I have never given her any reason not to trust me and have never been unfaithful.

When you were first together , did she expect so much? - Yes and No, she was very affectionate and wanted me to be with her all the time. So yes she demanded my time, but I liked that.

When did you first notice the behaviour? When we moved to Texas from Colorado. I know this has produced much resentment on her part. She thinks I moved her here to keep her away from her parents and friends.

Is she trying to push you away? Not really, but she does not go out of her way to make me happy either. I do on the other hand go way out of my way to initiate all the affectionate encounters, and I don't mean sex. I make deposits into her love bank on a regular basis.

Do you think she would be willing to talk to you? This is the million dollar question. I think she really believes that everything is fine in our relationship. Obviously, she is on the receiving end and does not have any big issues. I have pointed things out that I am not happy with, and she discounts my feelings by telling me that I am over analyzing the situation. On the other hand, I hang on every word that she speaks and immediately work to resolve the problem that she has. I ordered the cd set for Her Needs His Needs and hopefully the 10 hour car ride this weekend will serve as the delivery tool for the cds and my issues. I will post Monday with the results.

Hi Slackeryoutoo,
It made me smile when you commented about the quick response. That's what blew me away when I first entered this forum. The flood of concern, truths and caring was awesome. Love this site !
I understand you may not have a chance to return until after the W/E, no expectations here. Happy to be exchanging ideas with you.
I would like to return bit by bit to your response.
I too will start at the last remark. It will be very interesting to see how she responds to the CD. For both your sakes, I sincerely hope it starts some honest and loving exchange. There is a possibility, of course, than it won't. (we have to consider that too). It depends a great deal on her head space, when she listens.
You indicated that she really believes everything is "fine". This is SOOO usual in unequal situations ! What is more disturbing, is how she reacts when you try to tell her that you are not happy? There could be a host of reasons why she responds that way, and some answers may come to light after you initiate your CD.
Now to go back to the beginning of your response.
Let's think about confrontation !
We often identify it with a lot of negative things, but it doesn't HAVE to be ruthless and cruel . In fact it can be a very healthy and kind part of loving. Keeping our unhappy feelings stuffed away surely breeds more problems sooner or later.When you tried to voice your concerns, I understand you were not really heard and that would certainly re-inforce your feelings about confrontation. BUT, I think you will have to persist. HOW you persist is crucial. ( refer to the MB info) To dive back into your shell may "still the surface waters" for a short time , but trust me, the problem has not gone away, just gone deeper. The reason things are the way they are right now may underscore that. You describe your self confidence positively. That is great! You describe your abilities positively. That is great!
You describe your attitude towards failure. Now that made me wonder. A relationship is only as successful as what goes into it, right?!
But it takes TWO, or you wouldn't need another person. You could do it all by yourself, right?
There are many types of relationships, many styles, balances, etc. It doesn't really matter unless it doesn't work for one or the other. That's when you know your relationship isn't working. You can put in 100%++++, but if the other person isn't contributing........the relationship is failing. Unfortunately, you will have to look at the fact that you ALONE cannot make it succeed. This is very frustrating for those of us who feel that if we just gave a little more, perhaps it would help resolve things.......What a betrayal of ourselves that becomes! It's rather like the battery in a car, if the alternator isn't working, the battery dies.
Another metaphor for the Love Bank idea, perhaps.
In some ways, Slackeryoutoo, you have helped the situation deteriorate by your "givingness" (is that a word?) I've so been there. In fact, it is not loving to facilitate another person into believing you will tolerate things as they are.
It will only provide an ongoing incentive to become worse. The "Taker" can be is ruthless !
When you described your wife's indifference to giving you the children if you broke up, that really was a red flag. Your wife may need serious psychological help. Unfortunately, some people with the greatest need, cannot/will not recognize their own dysfunction. I am in no way able to diagnose, but I might suggest you look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder. You might also like the info at www.voicelessness.com/ There are many aspects to this disorder.
Your children are too young at the moment, to do anything but love and respect you. You are there for them so much. But they are learning and absorbing unhealthy lessons unconsciously none the less from both of you. Just to give you a small example of this from my own most recent life experience. I have a grandson, age 9.
He has two cousins on his father's side 2 and 5 yrs. older. (A really dysfunctional family !!)
Anyway, we were talking about his other grandmother, and he said he didn't really like her, but she was "O.K", because she "was his slave"!!! I was shocked and asked where he had gotten such a horrible attitude. He said it was common knowledge between him and his cousins.She was the family dormat, and they had no respect for her. "From the mouths of babes......."
I sincerely wish you well.. Keep me posted. God bless !

To the very wise Warm Ashes,

How did you become such a wealth of information? I suspect you know these issues first hand?

Your comment about Narcissistic Personality Disorder really hit home. I went to the site and read some of the articles about what can cause this type of disorder and my wife's history is a common demoninator for most people that "learn" this behavior. Before this site and talking to you I did not believe that Narcissistic Personality Disorder was really an "inherited" disease due to a persons childhood. It almost makes me want to take my kids and run for cover, but I will hold off on that thought at least for the time being.

Now that I understand I can take the steps to preserve my children's mental wellness as well as my own when dealing with the issues between the wife and I.

Thanks for the information and much needed advice,
Slackeryoutoo

Dear Slackeryoutoo,
Please be careful with your new information. Should she indeed have this disorder, she needs professional help.
Do keep us posted. We care !
Have a great W/E ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Slackeryoutoo,
Please be careful with this new information. We could be wrong ! But if we are correct, professional help may very well be necessary.
Have a happy W/E ! Try not to worry. Keep us posted. We care!

P.S. ooops!
I thought the first response had flown off into cyberspace and I'd lost it. Oh well, same stuff !
I'm still figuring out how some of this site works.

This weekend was great. My wife and I had a very informative constructive conversation this weekend. She voiced her issues and actually listened to mine. I think things are going to be OK. I will keep you posted as to our success.

Thanks
Slackeryoutoo

Dear Slackeryoutoo,
Delighted to hear the W/E went so well. She's listening !!! WONDERFUL !!This may be the dawning of awareness, next comes the efforts to work things through. If both of you are doing your very best, I believe good things will happen.
Blessings !!