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#670095 09/23/00 10:26 PM
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Eric32 Offline OP
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To give everyone an idea of how long I've been around, soon I should be Eric34! Holy cats, I haven't been around these parts in a while! Quick background: D in 12/99, all started 12/98 (hard to beleive), fought tooth and nail for my W heart, to no avail. Still beleive in marriage, got through the bitter part intact (better). W had multiple parter type affair, needed to do things on her own after she was caught, etc. Joint custody of 2 fantastic babies (3 & 6 now)!<P>To the point... Big surprise that my W is now prego. Guy she's dated for a few months and has moved away. He gave her the "I'll support you in whatever you'd like to do, but I'd really like you to kill it so my Mommy & Daddy don't find out" thing. Problem is that he is 38 and from a family who has sent him else where to help build the "empire". Granted he has a lot at stake. Should know better at 38. These characteristics don't surprise me in my XW's choice of her latest donor though. <P>The problem is that despite her completely irrartional decisions and behavoir, I can't completely give up on her. The "Danger Zone" comes in here. I wrestle with my belief in my vows and that no person is a lost cause. However, I've been told that I deserve the lable of "enabler" because I dare be compassionate. People close to me feel that my first instinct is to "rescue" her. <P>Frankley, it probably is. However, I think I've come far enough to be compassionate without being sucked back in. I like to beleive that it stems more from my nature than from me "needing" her. A big part of me feels the best thing I could do for her, is to let her deal with this absolutely solo; without even my friendship. <P>My kids are my first concern though. What message does this fiasco send them. I have strived to simply provide an example, a contrast, to my XW's lifestyle. Do I continue this or do I show them that true forgiveness is helping (not just anyone) their mom. It will be so tough to navigate these waters. I ask myself what I would admire most. I just don't want them to get the wrong idea of what right and wrong is. With a little feedback, maybe I could elaborate or figure this out.<P>Thanks,<BR>Eric<BR>

#670096 09/24/00 02:05 AM
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Wow, Eric ... what a situation. Here is how I've been handling my life of late: try to step back from the issue, be as objective as possible... ask for advice, weigh it against what I see and what I feel and make my decision based on all of that.<P>Which it sounds as if you are trying to do. I have always wanted to believe the best in people, and have always tried to help those in need. But you are right that there is a danger zone in your situation... what exactly can/would you do to help her out? And would your help do HER and the unborn child any good? Do you think she is currently capable of handling this on her own and being a good mother to a new baby? If you think she is capable, then maybe you should let her. Sometimes handling a crisis like this alone is what makes people grow up.<P>On the other hand, would you want her back in your life? What if things worked out that she wanted to come back to you?<P>As for your kids, either way, you can use it as an example of what to do and not to do. If you don't offer assistance, you can explain to your children that mom has to be responsible for her own life. If you do, you can explain that it is mature and good to forgive and help those who have hurt you in the past.<P>Well, that's the best I have to offer at 3:30am eastern time... I hope it helps at least a tiny bit!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

#670097 09/24/00 07:58 AM
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HI ERIC!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>Nice to see your name around here. ?! <BR>I am so sorry to read abt this new situation. Tell me HOW your wife feels abt this? I read how you feel, but what does she want at this point? It is pretty clear there will be no birth father in the picture for this new child. Where does she envision you fitting in? Or has she even got that far in the process?<BR>(((((hugs))))<BR>

#670098 09/24/00 04:19 PM
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If your wife "sees the error of her ways" I can't imagine a better scenario than taking your wife back, and raising that child as your own. It honest to God, brings a lump to my throat.<P>I don't know too many men who would be up for that, and I can see how hard that would be.<P>Saving that child would be a very noble thing to do, not the act of an enabler. I honestly can't imagine anything I could respect a person more for. <P>You seem to have that as a possibility in your heart - I certainly hope that your wife sees what a wonderful man she walked away from, and maybe doesn't screw up another innocent life. <P>But if that isn't going to happen, I would still do what you can to help. It is an innocent baby, and the sibling to your children that you are helping. <P>I don't know your situation, but I don't think your ex is a lost cause - she didn't opt for abortion - there is something there - its going to be hard for her, no matter what. But she could have taken the easy way out, and she didn't. That says alot about her too.<BR>

#670099 09/25/00 08:02 AM
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Eric32 Offline OP
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Thanks for your replies. Through this whole ordeal I have been told that I am doing the "wrong" thing. Not by folks around here especially, but those around me. One thing this place has taught me is to expect that. <P>However, another thing I have been taught is to trust in myself. Not to second guess decisions based on careful thought, based on reality and matters of the heart. Funny thing is, now that much of this once-marriage is said and done, folks now say they encouraged me to handle it how I did. That's not to say I don't give the support and advice I was given, some credit in my final choices. <P>This one though, seems to have me hanging. There is so much at stake. An innocent life, the very souls of my XW and my two kids. Not to mention, maybe my own. My only real advice to my XW in our heart to heart convo wasn't really advice at all. I simply asked her a question I ask myself almost everyday; "which way are you gonna go?". A question I am definately pondering at this point. Looking at my options of who I am and most importantly, who I want to be.<P>I read those articles posted earlier on divorce. I see my XW as one of those who is constantly tearing down what is good, burying the pain and disapointment. Many people say they can't even tell that anything is wrong in her life. When I first met her, I sensed sadness and hurt. She seemed like she had so much in her heart for others, but had always been let down. I thought I could be the one to share with her that it didn't have to be that way. To unlock one of life's greatest joys, peace and security, like trust. I ask myself, if this is the true intent of what I wanted to show her, is this the ultimate culmination of this journey? Is this actually MY test? Regardless of possesing her as my W? <P>I don't want to be the martyr (sp?), forever garnering pity for what a great sacrifice I made. Or a sucker, who let his guard down and got used again. I rather be seen as a guy who had the guts to do the right thing, to go the "right way", despite the lack of a tangible "reward". <P>At this point I have to say, I am leaning away from taking advantage of this situation to gain my W back. I think that would be a real possibilty. However, would that really do her any good. I come to the rescue agian, she doesn't have to face herself. I have found, with her, that such acts only make her feel resentment because show owes someone. Ultimately such an event would likely lead us back to a split again.<P>To answer questions.<P>Terri.<BR>The only thing I see myself doing to help is to be there as a friend. Not interjecting myself into the situation. We've been seperated for nearly 2 years, I respect the boundries of the newly defined lives, mine and hers. After all, this is another man's child. As far as being a mom, she's always been a great one in taking care of the kids, not so much in the example or teaching department. The jury's out as to whether or not I'd want to get back together. Not because of the pain or any bitterness, but is this the kind of person I would marry now? She would have a lot to prove. Not like specific tasks, but signs that I would know, showing a true change in who she really is.<P>cl.<P>Great to hear from you as well! I hope all is well in your life! I am not quite sure how she feels. I know there were a lot of tears, when we talked. I sense regret. She told me that "if it made me feel any better, it hurts her when I am nice to her (!?!)". Why would that make me feel better? If there were revenge in my heart, I could have done more with this situation than "be nice" to hurt her. As far as the situation, she hasn't gotten that far. She will likely ignore things until she begins to show, etc. I mean, she'll go to the doctor and take care of herself, but she won't contemplate anything. Lastly, I believe I may be the only one in life who takes her to the well. I mean, to this point one of her sister's in-depth advice was "don't touch the cat litter, I think there's a disease you transmit to the baby", for example. That's typical form her family. I don't think I can turn my back, that's for sure... That was one of the problems in our marriage; no real communication -she's afraid of it.<P>honey.west<BR>Thanks for your comments. I agree that there is a possibilty, I would have to see some things change. That doesn't mean I won't be her friend though. Yes, she has great potential, I admire many things about her including her courage in this case. I certainly give her credit, when credit is due.<P>Thanks for listen and for sharing,<BR>Eric

#670100 09/25/00 10:03 AM
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Eric32,<P>I feel that our society pushes so many of us away from helping each other. Is being a martyr such a bad thing? Really. A martyr from the outside point of view, appears to be someone who is in pain and who is fighting for a lost cause. But the true definition of a martyr is a person who fights for their beliefs IN SPITE of what others may think, against what seem to be insurmountable odds. And at the "end" he is often honored and looked up to by the very people who belittled him in the beginning.<P>By offering your kindness and help, how would you be hurting yourself? If God were standing next to you, would he be telling you to let her do this on her own, just put it out of your mind? Now don't get me wrong, I don't believe that if you go into this, you should be doing it to "get her back". Because then it would not be just out of your love for her, it would be you looking for something in return. But simply helping someone whom you still love, I do not believe is a bad thing at all.<P>And who is to say that she will accept your help. Just the offer may be enough. Maybe her knowing that she does have someone to depend on if she needs it, will help get her through this difficult time.<P>Society's view of we all need to be happy and that we need to put ourselves and our lives ahead of everyone else's I feel is garbage. When did it become so wrong to just love and help someone out of the goodness of your heart?<P>It is often difficult to give and help and be a martyr - I OFTEN stumble and fail myself, but that does not mean we should ever stop trying.<P>I'll step down off my soapbox now [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Take everyone's advice with a grain of salt. Listen to what they have to say, but at the end of the day, its you who needs to be happy with your decision (and I believe that whatever you do decide to do, it will be the right thing). I pray for God to give you the direction and courage you need.<P>God Bless.

#670101 09/25/00 08:58 PM
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HI Eric,<BR>SHE is the only one that can drink from the well....remember?! You could hold her down and force it down her throat, but that usually does not work real well.<BR>Ahh, my dear, you certainly have been given tests the past few yrs. You are right to be concerned abt your children. But how you handle it will really be what they see and follow. That will be what guides them and cultivates the sibling relationship that has to exist. <BR>((((hugs))))

#670102 09/25/00 09:34 PM
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Eric32 Offline OP
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Thanks cl. I guess I just need someone to keep me straight every once in awhile! Your absolutley right. My point was only that if noone ever shows you kindness, why would you ever trust anyone would.<P>To be honest, in the last few days, I must admit, I am leaning away from the lure of trying to make this family whole again. I am beginning to beleive it's best to follow the path I am on. Not due to bitterness or vengence, but just because the kids can learn more from me as a father unto himself. Not as a victim. I am REALLY sensing desperation in the voice of my XW. And at times, when we've talked, I get asense of "I've been here...". It doesn't feel any different, that scares the [censored] out of me! I like who I've become. I don't know what my parents did to me but, my biggest fear is being selfish. cl, is there a time in a place?<P>Eric


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