I decided I needed to move this topic to another thread...<P>I have a question to both men and women...<P>Who believes that the man should be the head of the household? I already know what the biblical take on this is. Besides religious reasons, I'd like to discuss exactly why you think it is a good/bad idea or perhaps why it is a non-issue.<P>Me and another friend of mine (another female PhD candidate) believe that our inability to let the man feel like the "head of the household" or feel "in charge" is one of the main reasons we are single. She has never been married. My ex stated specifically a few months before the divorce that he felt like the man needed to "call the shots" because all of his friend's marriages were like that and they were working.<P>Personally, I feel physically repulsed by the idea and both me and my friend will likely stay single if this is what is expected of us. She and I discussed the topic of POJA, but she felt like the "no" vote would always have more power in that respect. In her experience, her step-dad always held the no-vote. <BR>

TS,<P>Don't have the energy or brain power right now for a debate but I'll be glad to join in later.<P>Wanted to say "HI" and tell you my bachlorette pad a.k.a. home I have gutted and rebuilt inside from the ground up has really come together! My "behind dragging" is beginning to feel normal. Hanging kitchen cupboards Saturday, you got time to help? Also have newly discovered plumbing problems from the house to the street. The electrical wiring is coming along and the new blown in insulation has made a difference and on and on and on, LOL! <P>Good luck on the debate, I'll scoot outa here!<P>Ragamuffin

Well.....in my first marriage I was the head of the house hold 100%. I think my ex resented it somewhat and saw it as a control issue (my liking and wanting to be in control). How I saw it was different. I saw it as a position that had to be held by somebody and because he would not/could not step up to plate I was it. It frustrated and when I'd complained about it he'd offer. Funny though, when it came down to handing over some of the responsibility I'd choke and not do it. Why? I didn't trust him enough to think that he could handle it. Turns out much later he's in the same situation with his girlfriend. She wears the pants in their relationship and often complains that he can't and doesn't take care of himself or her. Anyhow, in my first marriage I totally resented him for making me be it all. I desided when he needed hair cuts, made his appointments etc....decided what homes to live in, how to decorate them, I paid all of the bills etc.. I felt like a mother of 3 with no spouse. In my second marriage I'd say he's more the head of the house hold. My gosh for the first time in 20 something years somebody else balanced the check book and I was perfectly happy to hand the job over. I realized that it wasn't that I wanted control but instead I wanted to share it. Decisions that are large are made by both of us discussing it first. We we both don't agree on a big issue it doesn't happen. I think the marriages that do the best are the marriages that are closer to 50/50. Sometimes I'm too emotional about a certain situation to make the decision. I'm comfortable with him making it. Sometimes he's torn between two issues and I'm the tie breaker. Marriage is NOT about who is head of the house hold, it's about team work.

Not me. I think the "head of the hh" is & should be "heads". Some things are more my area, and some his, but major decisions, etc are all joint. Frankly, I cannot see marrying anyone who held that belief...<P>BTW...There is a lot of stuff in the bible which I do not believe to be divinely mandated, but influenced by the folks who recorded it.

Hi, me again . This time, though, I wholeheartedly agree with TS. I don't need to be the head of the household to be a "man".<P>In fact, in my marriage my W has always been in charge of most of our social activities and many other things. I did the bills, the taxes, the home and car maintenance and improvement, etc. We participated equally in raising the kids (well, until she got the high stress job and started the A, but I digress).<P>In my mind that was perfectly fine. However, recently (after the speech), she started saying stuff about needing somebody to be the head of the household, to "run interference" for our family, etc. I couldn't understand that, since every time I tried to take charge, she called me "controlling".<P>Later, I figured out that this was all due to her involvement with the OM, who apparently was a take-charge kind of guy (duh), so my W figured that's the way things should be.<P>So now I'm in a quandry: if I take charge, I'm controlling. If not, I'm weak. Go figure!<P>Anyway, to answer your question, I don't need (or want) to be the head of the household. I want to be equals, with differences of opinion handled via POJA rather than calling each other controlling" or "wimpy".<P>AGG

I don't see a need for a "head" of the household. My STBX and I pretty much divided up duties and responsibilities between us and made virtually all our household decisions jointly. <P>I think a healthy domestic relationship is a partnership. To be sure some tasks will end up being the primary responsibiltiy of one partner (mine tended to be yard work & mechanical stuff), but either if us were capable of running the household single handedly (which I have a true appreciation of now ).<P>Of course, there are probably some successful relationships where one or the other partner is more dominating. I just wouldn't want to be a part of one of those.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Well TS...another good question...<P>Me personaly...I see it as 100%/100% job...<BR>Each partner bringing an ideal to the table for negotiation...<P>I see woman as having an inate ability for nurtureing...men haveing the inate ability to work...<P>For me most decisions can be made in 10 seconds flat...If my future W can make a reasonable decision, then I trust it...If I make a reasonable decision...then it too should be trusted...<P>I whole heartedly agree with the POJA...<P>On a sidenote...<P>The standard wedding vow usualy has in it...submit and obey...<P>I looked at this as being for both people to be influenced by...<P>My Grandparents celebrated 53 years before my GF died...they followed a simple unstated rule...<P><B>He ruled the roost...She ruled the rooster</B><P>Bill

Hi folks,<P>Lots of interesting answers. The general consensus seems to be whatever both people agree upon. Me and my ex took turns doing just about everything. I'd balance the checkbook every other month. We went grocery shopping and every other kind of shopping together. He enjoyed mowing the lawn, while I enjoyed weeding (and in FL, there is LOTS of lawn mowing and weeding) so outdoor stuff was shared. I'm an M.E. so mechanical stuff is also my forte, but I can bake up a mean batch of chocolate chip cookies or even a souffle when I put my mind to it. I taught my ex how to sew. He made himself tank tops for our bike riding adventures. Darn it. He was my dream man in lots of ways. He hid that "gotta be in charge" stuff pretty well for a long time. <P>I think he took a look at what his friend's had going on at home and decided he wanted a change. If he didn't like the way I did something, his first urge was to try and take it away from me, rather than discuss it. Or if he did discuss it, it came down to his way or no-way. We had that argument a couple of times about balancing the checkbook. A couple of times I made mistakes and he wanted to take it over and got pissed that I wouldn't let him take it over. I said "NO" because I wouldn't be able to learn any other way. <P>About the school thing (which was the catalyst for our divorce, among other things)... He always told me he'd be happy emptying out ash-trays for a living. I honestly didn't care what he did for a living either (as long as it was legal ). So, I didn't think it would be any problem that I was the more ambitious of the two, career-wise. Yet another area where I don't think he knew himself well. He SAID his job wasn't all that important, but when it came down to moving, he realized just how important it was. Of course, that was well after he had already promised to move for my education someday, etc....<P>For me it comes down to "Lead, Follow, or get out of the way" <P>

I kind of like Bill's tagline:<P>"He ruled the roost...She ruled the rooster"<P>Just as in any partnership there are going to be skills and qualities that each individual excels at and brings to the table. Some of those follow gender lines, some don't.<P>For most situations, I really don't believe there needs to be any one "boss". But with children, I do believe there needs to be a "Head". Usually the spouse that has final say with children issues is really more a figure head than an absolute dictator. I look to my parents on this one - so often when I wanted something "big" I always had to "go ask my father". What took a long time to figure out was that between the time he gave me his answer, there was much debating going on behind the scenes between he and my mother.<P>What this did do was prevent me as a child, from "playing" one parent off the other. If I knew they both had equal power to decide, I could have manipulated it to my benefit.<P>As for my wife and me, most decisions came down to who knew more about the topic at hand. Finances were often decided by me, house issues were often decided by her.<P>Mike

Isn't one of the best reasons to be in a marriage, or even a partnership, is that two heads are better than one?<P>Personally, I think we all tend to have strong and weak points. Knowing where they are and when our spouse is better equiped to handle something is a huge benefit. That doesn't mean that one or the other gets "stuck" with any particular job.<P>Myself, I don't want an employee or a servant. I want someone that I can lean on when needed and have confidence they will do what's best for us in any decision they make.<P>I don't worry about the results of the decision as long as it was made with our well being in mind.<P>Want to hear something funny? In my first marriage, anytime I was in doubt of a decision I was faced with I asked myself one simple question. What would my W do if she were making the decision? Always seemed to help me make the right choice...

I beleive in traditional roles. I think the man should be the head of the household. My hubby and I made an agreement before we got married that he would be the head of the household and he made all of the final decisions. That is fine with me, that is the way I want it. I keep the house up and he does the veichles and yard. It has worked out well. It makes me feel protected.<P>I look at it this way. He is the head and I am the neck. Try turning your head without the help of your neck.<P>Hey, Country Guy. Good to see ya. Glad you are doing well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My hubby and I made an agreement before we got married that he would be the head of the household and he made all of the final decisions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That would never, never work for me. It would be like abdicating control of my life, becoming a child again...absolutely beyond my scope of understanding, but I am glad it works for you.

I rather like how my H worded it, "I am the King, but the Queen must be kept happy at all times."<P>Laura

Hi TS,<P>I am trying to answer to this thread but somehow it isn't working. This is a test.<P>JL

Ragamuffin,<P>Wow. You really have made alot of progress on the house. Were you able to blow the insulation into the walls as well? In our old house, there was absolutely no insulation at all in the place for a good 50 yrs. The second owner had blown insulation into the attic (and blown, and blown, and blown) then realized that all that insulation was going into the walls as well. Accidental, but better than nothing. Still, it was so bad that you could feel cold air coming out of the electrical outlets!

Something I just noticed...<P>One of the banner advertisers on the top says this....<P>"Given Men's History?<BR>Shouldn't Women Rescue us?"<P>"DestroyingAngel<BR>Read the Wonderful Novel About Unleashing Women's Supressed Genius"<P>HAHAHAHAHA<P>There is a link to <A HREF="http://www.destroyingangel.com" TARGET=_blank>www.destroyingangel.com</A> <BR>I haven't gone there. It sounds a little too femi-nazi to me

That's the trouble with these banners---they know too much about your past internet history. They pick "appropriate" sites for you.<P>I've had "cooking.com" and "gardner's newtork" as my two links for this post, Stu. I'm just not a very exciting guy...<P> <P>PS: We tend not to do a "head" of the house anymore. My wife has been handling our finances for the last year or two, however, so she's "gained" in that area (which I hated---I just make money).

K,<P>Hi, my platonic, best-of-intentions, don't-get-the-wrong-idea-cause-you're-married sweetie! Do you have a clone?! <P>When ever I start feeling like I'm just too wierd, and I'll never find another guy (like my ex) who liked to cook, garden, and do some "girly" things with me, I think of guys like you and I don't get so depressed. I like doing lots of "guy" stuff too. Hope you and your family are doing well. I'm always glad to hear from you.<P>Handling finances was never my favorite job either, but I don't like being in the dark in that respect.<P>Actually, there are few guys on this board I'd like to clone! <P>About the banner....OOps. I did do a search on "feminist" a couple of times just to find out what the definition is these days...and what I am. I think they would define me as a gender feminist. Basically, I believe that roles are not confined to gender, and are more likely shaped by societal influences.

Hi Stu!<P>I'm not necessarily working on cloning, but I am doing some progeny work. My 10 year-old son came to me a couple nights ago a bit bummed: he was upset because he didn't know how to cook. We worked on making an apple pie last night. He's such a riot---he wants to sew too. Give me another 10 years or so, and you can "rob the cradle". He can climb trees like a monkey, so I'm thinking he'd make a great arborist...<P>And I'll teach him to sail too...<P>

K,<P>that would make me 46 and him 20. Hmmm. Well, I guess if it is ok for the guys to do hook up with the young'ins then it couldn't hurt for the ladies...<P>Maybe we can set up a date with him and my daughter-to-be in 20 yrs. So far the plan is to adopt. I don't have a gender preference, but I probably will adopt from overseas which usually means girls. Sad they don't want their girls in some countries. I think they (those countries) will suffer in the long run, but I'm happy to take them off their hands in the meantime.<P>About the sewing...if you need any tips, let me know. It is a very useful skill to have. I'm tickled that your son wants to learn that, and cook too. His wife-to-be will be very lucky.<P>When I truly was a starving student, I used to sew most of my clothes. I still sew evening dresses for special occasions, halloween costumes, and stuff around the house. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited December 08, 2000).]