Why women don't approach men...<P>a) They aren't used to being assertive. Women are taught that being assertive is a turn-off, b*tchy, etc.<P>b) They don't want the guy to think they are "easy". An assertive woman is also (usually) considered a sl*t. <P>c) They are afraid of rejection. Women aren't raised to deal with that kind of rejection from a young age, like men are.

I need to jump in...I would say that I am an eye person, but I also like a well groomed man, short hair, well taken care of...no hair on the neck ick! Height, eye and hair color do not matter to me...but I really like a man that takes care of himself...and I would also have to say hands and arms...love a man with strong hands and arms (but definitely not body builder strong...)

Just once if a woman (not married)would say hey would you like to go to dinner and movie with me. I had a couple of married women ask me what a turn off!<P>So did women's lib occur or was that just a night mare I experienced in the 70's - 80's. I believe in equal rights but when in Graduate School was beat up by women for opening doors for them. Maybe they were radicals!<P>It seems we take what benefits us or is easy and don't do the rest. We will only true have equality when both groups can preform all tasks!<P>I will probably be in trouble for my comments but I believe women are very capable and actually better at certain things then men and vise versa.<P>I like the differences and hope they always remain!<BR>

Heck, yes, rejection! It's the same for girls as it is for guys.<P>I am pretty shy, but when I was dating, if I really liked a guy, I would definately let him know--or I thought that I did. Okay, I wouldn't just walk up and say "Hey, baby!" (Like I have some geeky guys do to me!) But I would bake him a plate of cookies, ask him out to lunch (and I had no problem ever paying for a date if I asked!)or I'd try to do any kind of favor for him--meaning at work, I would help him out, or in class, ask him if he would like to study with me. (I am thinking about when I met my husband--he is really shy and I practically chased him, meaning that whenever I saw him alone, I was right there to talk to him.)<P>Or is that too subtle?<P>If, after that, he doesn't show any particular interest in me, I drop it and figure we are "just friends."

Interesting. I would love to have a woman ask me out.. <P>Holy Moly. I just went down to the caffateria to get a snack for lunch (5 minutes ago)and this woman that has been looking at me for the last couple of months noticed that I had a tag hanging out from the back of my sweater. She came up behind me and tucked it back in and I said thanks alot, I hate tags like this. She left and I continued to stand in line to check out and out of nowhere here comes this woman with what looked like a two foot long pair of very sharp, very pointy scissors. Walks right up to me from a the rear and graps the tag puts the scissors up and cuts that tag right off my sweater. <P>I didn't have to ask, I don't even know this ladies name.. I tought it very nice of her because you have no idea how much I hate clothing tags that rub me or stick out. Scared the cr*p out of me at first. But I thought it nice, afterwards. <P>And I will always open doors for woman. They seem to enjoy it.. <P>

Well I'm a lost cause right now, I have very sad and hateful eyes, too much resentment. Maybe once I let it go. Other than that... I'm good to go, I think...<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Ok.... I'm gonna ad one thing to my list....<P>Maners! A guy with no or bad maners is a turn off. <P>I guess I was raised a little old fashioned... I love for guys to open doors for me, hold my chair, help me with my coat... these things make my knees weak . <P>I was recently talking to a guy friend (who I find attractive & interesting)... he told me that some guys just don't get subtle hints. I said, so you mean you need to be hit over the head with a 2x4?? He said... yeah, basically that's it. Well, I've never asked a guy out for a first date before, but I sent him an email today.... the subject was "2x4" and asked him if he'd like to go to dinner & a movie on Saturday. <P>Guys.... what do you think... will he get the hint??<P>Smooches,<BR>Busty<BR>

Oh.... Just for anyone who might be wondering.... I told him to pick the resturant and <B>I'd pick the Movie! </B>

I got a chuckle out of a few of these responses <P>I am what many people would consider a feminist. I have nothing against a man opening a door for me. I always smile and say thank you, and don't consider it a put-down or that they think I'm weak (and if they do, I'd be happy to show them my rock-solid biceps ). <P>Depending on who gets to the door first, or what they are carrying, I will hold the door for anyone. I also think it is polite to at least unlock (and even open) the car door for your passenger first (man or woman). I always pay for myself, no matter who asked, unless he insists. If women expect equal pay, then they can expect to pay half the bill(s) too.

Okay, I thought that I would throw in my two cents worth again since it is getting to the topic of manners and ettiquite.....<P>I readily admit that I am a tom boy. Although I find it charming for a man to open a door for me, I also return the favor. If I ask a man out on a date (friendship or romantic) and I am the one asking, then I am the one paying.... case closed. Also in the terms of friendship, if I go to lunch with a male friend regularly and we get one bill for the meal, I will try to keep it fair with me being allowed the honor (yes, it is an honor) to pay for the meal and treat my friend to a hopefully enjoyable meal. If I am driving I will open the door for my guest first, if I am a passenger and they open the door for me I will lean over and open his door from the inside. I am all for being taken out and spoiled, just as long as the guy is also equally prepared to let me do the same to him.<P>Have I actually asked someone out on a date... in the past 10 years or so, not as anything more than friends or with purely a friendly intent. Prior to the past 10 years, yes. And I really feel for the guys on this one since they are usually the ones doing the asking of us women. It is truly nerve racking!

Stop It Java.. ;-) Your kill'in me.. <P>I only have a problem with one thing. If your driving I wouldn't want you to open my door. If it was a mechanical problem (Look at this, I used the word mechanical twice, no three time tonite.) Ok. Like you had to hold the door a certain way for it to open or something, But I want to get into the car second.. Absolutly perfect on everything else.<P>Here is something else I like and that is vocabulary. I know I can't spell worth a tinkers hammer but I like it when I have a conversation were real words are used.. You know the ones greater than 4 letters.. I like long dinners with nice conversation. Nonconfrontational talk, I like to listen and learn. Watch. Smile. etc.

Enough for the outward traits; the beauty of outward traits is relative. And most anyone can MAKE himself attractive to someone else.<P>But some of the personality traits that I like in a guy?<P>Okay, to start--<P>He's got to be smart. I don't mean that he can speak in Latin, thoroughly understands quantum physics, and can accurately forcast the worldwide ecconomic situation for the next 5 years. But, if a guy picks up a history book now and again, can wisely select the politician he would like to represent him, and help with the kid's homework--that's impressive to me.<P>Speaking of kids--don't you think it's cute when guys play with little kids? Nothing is sweeter than listening to little kids giggling and wrasslin with their daddy. A guy that is humble enough to play a couple of rounds of candyland and let the kid win is cool in my book. (I actually talked the husband into lowering himself to play candyland with my 4 year old son once--it was tough, but he finally begrudgingly gave in. Then he actually decided it was fun after a while. . .sheesh!) And guys--have you ever played Barbie with your little girl?-change gowns, comb hair, sip from empty miniature t-cups, all the while carrying on a simpering dialogue? Well, OK, I admit that's too much for even me sometimes. Never did dig Barbie too much. (I had a Johnny West doll. And an Evil Knieval complete with motorcycle.)<P>Oh, speaking of humility now. . .nothing is a bigger turn-off than a guy, ESPECIALLY a cute guy, with an arogant, God's-gift-to-the-world look on his face. UGH! Sometimes you can read it all over him what he thinks of himself when he climbs out of that shiny hotrod with lookin all snobbish. And if he knows everything. . .who cares? Nobody likes to hang with someone who can one-up on trivia facts. Humility means that you are teachable, and you care about what others think--about other's feelings, not about yourself.<P>I like a guy that who has a pet, who likes animals and treats them well. Someone who is mean to animals is mean to anyone. Not saying he has to endure that cat on the kitchen table, but it says a lot about a fellow if he is kind to everyone--even the least of these. (My husband hated my cat--I mean, I fed her, disciplined her and changed her litterbox, he had nothing to do with her except live in the same house with her. But it caused him great mental agony to do that.) I think it is so sweet to see a guy devoted to his pets.<P>I kind of like the look of a workin man. A suit is cool, but coming from a fairly rural community, I think it's sexy to see a guy come down to the corner coffee shop wearing irrigation boots, bits of hay stuck to his coat, maybe a little grease on his calloused hands. Alright, call me weird, I guess. That's just my world. But I like a guy who shows he's a good worker by how he acts. . .turns me on!<P>Okay, that's just a few. . .

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hurtinginOmaha:<BR>[B]A couple of questions first: 1. How does a guy wear clothes verse them wearing him? <BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<P>This generally constitutes attitude and posture. <P>I meet a lot of business men in expensive suits who would look a lot classier in dockers and poloshirts, because the business suits were just not 'them'... And, from out here in the sticks just west of HELL, I see a lot of vacationing city slickers trying to wear jeans and wetern shirts who just look like a 'cityslicker in a cowboy uniform'... <P>Guys, you just gotta be who you are!!! <P>We love ya, just the way you are... maybe not all of us love all of you - but, you get the picture!

First, let me say thanks to all the brave ladies who responded. Thanks for keeping it clean and helping the guys out.<P>Next,let me say that, yup, we really are not that difficult to please. Like you'all mentioned, a stunningly beautiful person is a pleasure to behold, but the maintanence required is too high a price. I'd MUCH rather have a real guy, who has basically handsome, but who was confident, funny, strong, and sexy. So, you guys out there remember: EYES, SMILE, (personal preference, such as behind, well-dressed, etc.). BTW, on a personal note, yes, Jayhawk you have the eyes and the smile sewn up! <P>Now, we have several questions on the table:<BR>1) Where do the women hang out?<BR>2) Who asks who out?<BR>3) What inner qualities are attractive?<BR>So here are my answers:<BR>1) Good women hang out everywhere, except at singles' bars! You know what those women are there for (haha). For some ideas, I'd go to recreation centers, libraries, bookstores, local musical events (i.e., a band you like, an orchestra, or a performance). In addition, I'd pick something you REALLY enjoy doing on your own, and join a group that also enjoys doing that. Thus, you're likely to meet a woman who enjoys something you do!<P>2)Since it is the new millenium, I think both men and women should ask each other out. I can honestly say that I do not wait around and expect a man to ask me out, so I think that "rule" is starting to be old fashioned. Either way, one party or the other is going to have to take a risk and stick their neck out there and risk rejection, so, if there were someone I liked, I wouldn't hesitate to ask him out. What the heck--the worst he could say is "No"!<P>3) I think there are lots of threads out there about the inner qualities that are attractive. But, to summarize, here are my basics: a personality compatible with my INFP; intelligence equal to or exceeding my own; a very hard worker; and a high sex drive (sorry, but if I get to pick next time, it WON'T be once every month!). The very necessary qualities that I look for are trustworthy (guess what--I have a little issue there!); funny, funny, funny; soft and gentle; know my limits and protect me; and want to continue to learn and grow.<P>Well, excellent questions, guys!<P><BR>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Interesting stuff, I have been experimenting with the clothes thing. I used to wear only business suits (was told I looked good)but really did not always feel comfortable.<P>I now wear lots of Dockers and sports shirts to work wow I like but still wear the occassional suit!<P>Actually prefer jeans and sweat shirt or shorts and golf shirt/tee shirt. In fact, I want to mow grass at a golf course when I semi-retire. <P>Manners are very important and I open doors for all people. I also try to pay attention to the needs of the elderly as I will be there some day! As for pets (dog, two cats and a Russian Tortoise) of course when all is said and bone it will get the tortoise and the cat (Cleo).<P>This is a fun topic and it is nice to play! Now if I could just find a play mate or two!

I, personally, hang out at the bookstore, library (I may need to change branches though - in 8 years of going to the same branch, I've not met anyone that I can think of). Don't forget the grocery store. We all go there. <P>Be nice to everyone. You never know...<P>Who knows if I land the job, and get to spend time in the clinic....... <P>I've decided that this may not be the time for me to meet the next someone important. I still have some big things to work on and maybe I need to deal with that first.<P>

Inner qualities??? You mean that there is something more to a man than just looks??? (KIDDING!!!!!!!! don't you guys start jumping my case for that comment, it is a joke!!!)<P>I guess the first thing I should then list is a sense of humor.... someone who can laugh at himself. <P>Honesty. Non judgemental towards me. Patient. Kind. Loving. Supportive. Humble. Shares his true thoughts and feelings, doesn't hide them. An openness to hear my thoughts and feelings. A good communicator, not just a speaker, and not just a listener. Someone who I can have a conversation with. Fun. Will play with my son. Someone not afraid to work for what he wants. Someone with goals (even if he isn't sure what all the goals are, but knows that he wants to strive for something). Not afraid of change. Not afraid of the future. Realizes that he can't change the past but can only learn from it. Those are the main ones that come to mind right now. I know that there are more, but they just aren't coming to me.... oh one more.... <B>Slightly goofy.</B><P>I will agree whole heartedly with Bernzini in regards to seeing a man who is good with children. I have a 6 year old.... There is no greater pleasure for me than seeing someone play, talk, or just hang out with him. Seeing the looks on both of their faces is just amazing! Someone who takes the time to spend with a child is a wonderful person!<P>Tex... why do you insist on getting into the car second? Afraid that it might be jury riged with some kind of a trap??? I guess that we could work out some form of a mutual agreement to satisfy both of our specific wants.... If you were my guest and I was driving, I would still unlock your door and open it for you.... it would be your choice on if you would get in before or after me. How would that be? <P>~Java

Places to Meet Girls--Just Suggestions:<P>The gym, that's where I always hung out (meaning, I need to hang out there more these days, but my friggin schedule!!) Would you be too cool to spot me? ( I have always had trouble with bi's and shoulders.) If I am on the brink of "hurting myself" would you take my elbows in consideration enough to come over and show me the "proper way?" (I think it's so sweet when guys do that!) Don't you think that a girl who takes care of her body is disciplined, dedicated, and self-confident?<P>Maybe if you're a single dad you'd like to meet a single mom--Chucky Cheese or the playground at McDonald's is a good place to go once in a while. Hey, we all hate to cook after working a full shift, picking up kids from daycare, running errands, then realizing that there is no food in the cupboard anyway because there is no time to shop. I hate McDonald's food, but the 1 hour of peace and quiet that I get letting my kid burn off stored energy, screaming in the ballpit is worth it. Good time to share a cup of java and sympathize with another single parent.<P>Don't forget at work (where many affairs start as well! Grrrrr!) A bit of personal trivia, kind of funny: I had one month before my 2nd year of college, needed some of those great 80's style clothes, but no time to get a real job. So I went to work in the corn fields for a couple of weeks. Here I was, covered from head to toe in mud, wearing old army fatigues, I started talking to the cute guy a row over. We tassled corn and talked all day. Got to the end of the field and he tripped me into the ditch as a joke. He said "I had to see what you looked like under all that mud, because I was hoping you'd go out with me tonight." Hee hee. My first real boyfriend, he became. Ah, youth!<P>Church--forget it. They are all happily married except for me at my church. (They think that I'M cool, though.) But if your congregation has a singles activity group, Parents without Partners, or anything like that, take advantage.<P>I guess these are places where nice girls hang out. Not saying that nice girls don't go to the club, but really, do you want to spend all the time and heartache weeding out psychos to find Miss Right?<P>Remember the song "A pretty face don't mean no pretty heart." Well, at the club, pretty faces are a dime a dozen. At some of the places I mentioned, you can get into a conversation that has nothing to do with "can I buy you a drink" and "do you like this song--wanna dance?" but you can get to know someone right away by what they do and how they conduct themselves in everyday life, not putting on a show.

Java.<P>I think it comes from my upbringing.. I have no Idea. I Just think its conciderate of a man to get into the car second or more over, after all of the ladies are in the car/truck if there is more than one like going to lunch with the ladies in my office.... If they are getting into the back seat I will always offer a hand to lean on as they get in or out of the my truck... Little stuff.. <P>I will say this after having a longggggg thought about what you would do I think I could get in the car first after the 5th or 6th date,, Ok maybe the 7th. Aditionally it would probably take a good, talkin to.. Sommething like ' Give it up Tex, Get over the polite stuff its just me.' HeHeHe ;-) But I could do it.. <P>I think its part of being a man.. I'm not a pig or anything like that. I just like being polite almost to a fault.. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Don't you think that a girl who takes care of her body is disciplined, dedicated, and self-confident? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My X does, just like that, and she is obsessive-compulsive. Hung up big time on body and looks. she looks great, but her self image is warped by whether she has gone to the gymn or not.<P>there's always two sides to each story.<P>tom<P>