Sometimes, doesn't it just feel hopeless and helpless to be on this forum? All this horrible, awful pain is happening to us and there's usually little or nothing that we can do about it. Well, I'm posting my story for some of you folks to remind you that there IS hope. <P>My H left one year ago in February, and later on I found out that he was having an A. I had ignored "signals" for months, because I just couldn't believe it could be true. Within five days of his moving out, I lost my husband, my job, my business, and I had two kids with a mortgage that was 3 months behind (I didn't know about that!). As you can imagine, I went out of my mind.<P>Needless to say, my memories of Valentines Day are not good--neither are March 11th (our anniversary) or April 20th (my birthday and Columbine shooting). Mother's Day was a joke, and although I had fun in front of the kids, I cried when he left us all home alone that night. <P>He was gone until about June, and for the summer months, I thought we were trying to work it out again. He moved back home, but we didn't sleep together for months and months. I thought it was because he was trying to have our relationship return to a certain level of closeness/intimacy before we engaged in physical expressions. Well, it turns out that he never gave up the OW, he just felt guilty about the kids not having a dad! For a while there, he even told me that he had Erectile Dysfunction as a reason why we weren't having sex, and the funny thing is, I tried to cruise the internet looking for info and advice! Oh well, even Sherlock Holmes can be fooled, huh?<P>So, in October (Oct.24th, to be precise--the day before my daughter's birthday), I got the "I don't love you and I never will" speech. He just wanted to get through this birthday, and then he was leaving with the OW. By November 1st, he had moved in with the OW, and they were setting up shop. Now, FYI, she is 35yo (just 3 years younger than me), she looks similar to me (taller, of course), she has four children, and her ex-husband is in jail for beating her. This may sound silly, but I could never figure out what in the world SHE had that I didn't. I mean, if you're going to destroy a whole family, TRADE UP! Anyway, in December, he took her on a vacation to Utah for about two weekes (something he would never do for me), and I was SURE it was over. POSITIVE. Convinced to my very soul. I mean, come on! The man left his wife and kids, moved in with the OW, set up shop, took her on vacation, and totally gave up all the holidays with his own children! <P>All along, while he was moving in and moving out, with the OW and lying to me, at home and lying to me--through it ALL, I told him I would never file legal documents against him. We did have a separation agreement(basically agreeing to visitations, dividing up the bills, who kept what--you know), and we even got to the point of dividing up our assets! But he didn't file, and I never would--I refused to start a divorce that I never wanted. On that one thing, I stood fast: I WOULD NOT file. If he wanted to divorce, he would have to file; and once he even told me, "You are making me look like the bad guy!" (Duh!)<P>On January 19th, I had my first date with someone other than my H in 15 years, and although it didn't turn into a huge romance, it was nice. Well, suddenly, my H started acting very angry. At that time, we were literally arguing over who was going to file (I wouldn't and he said that made him look bad), and he was demanding certain assets that he had already agreed not to take. So, he was being very snide and mean about things, and making comments that were meant to be threatening, and childishly going back on his word. Finally one day I nailed him down and said, "WHAT is the matter with you?" and do you know what he said?<P>"You are moving on with your life, WITHOUT ME." (Well, duh, right?) <P>Apparently, it was a fogbuster, because right now, the man I thought was going to be my soon to be ex and I are talking to each other and trying to get back together! In another thread, Gnome de Plume said (in paraphrase) that people need to hit the bottom, and it is so true. Just last night, my H told me, "It took me a year to figure out that the grass is not really greener on the other side. It was all my imagination." He hit the bottom and it was bouncy enough to get back up to the edge, but I had to wait at the edge for a year while he ripped my heart out. <P>So does that offer a glimmer of hope or not? I'm not sure. It's h*ll to pay to stand there at the edge, not know for an entire year what in the world is going to happen in your life, have your heart ripped and torn, and then try to forgive at the end. But I guess it is encouragement to be patient, because it can happen. Now honestly, guys, I've been here on this forum since about August--did anyone ever think it would "turn out" for me? I didn't either! <P>You never know. I would encourage you ALL to be patient, come here for support and for hugs when you can't take it anymore, and do your best to Plan A. I would remind you that Plan A is not only about providing for the needs of your partner--it is also about growing and learning personally, so that you can be the man/husband or woman/wife that you have the potential to be. BECOME the person that you can be! And from one very, very valuable friend, I learned an enormous lesson: Learning about becoming a better person, and understanding what happening, and studying relationships is a whole lot different from DOING it. Learn how to be a better person, and PUT IT INTO PRACTICE. Understand what happened and things within you that you need to change, and DO IT. Study relationships and how healthy relationships work, and PUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE INTO ACTION!<P>Last, but not least, I think I'm going to move over to the "In Recovery" forum--a lot of the topics they discuss there are what I'm dealing with now. I'll come and hang around here now and then, because you'all are my friends. But, before I go I wanted to give you folks a challenge. I have heard a lot of people tell me this week: "Boy, I wish I had the chance that you do!" Ask yourself this--do you really? Do you really wish you had the chance again to find out that he/she never gave up the OP and was lying to you all along? Do you really wish you had to risk talking to the person who put you in this pain in the first place? Do you really wish that you had to stick your neck out and trust someone who has broken your trust in every way? Do you really wish that you had to open up, be honest, and really TALK to the one who did not care how many nights you spent crying when they left? My challenge is this: for months I romanticized the idea of reconciliation. I envisioned a loving reunion, both of us reuniting smarter and more in love than ever before. We would both realize how precious the other person was and how much we loved each other. Unfortunately, this is just as foggy and unrealistic as an affair. So, although there may be a part of you that really wishes you had the chance I do, ask yourself this: do you really want to be in my shoes? Now that we've been talking together, I almost feel like the mountain is much bigger than I first realized!<P>Well, see ya, friends! Love you all!<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Faithful wife,<P>One of these days you and I have to get together. It seems we both look at things the same way. I found last week about what my H is thinking. Thanks to his aunt who is close to both of us. Because I divided things up on paper and talked to a lawyer my h thought I did not care for him. He thought OW was his only option(OW is not a trade up - 6yrs older w/ 3 kids on her second marriage to an abusive H) H is now babysitting for her-they switched her to first shift at their work. My H works second. Her H found out about them and told her to get my H to watch the kids. H is now concerned that I have lost alot of weight. He also told his aunt he didn't know if I could ever trust him again or forgive him. My counselor helped me prepare a note to him. Today he went to my friends house to get a haircut-I anxious as to what will be said. I have a glimmer of hope but that is all. I have grown alot during this time and I know if he does not come around I will be fine. One thing that is strange is H does not stay over night at OW's house. He actually stays at families house, sleeps for a couple of hours that goes and babysits when she goes to work. I think this will wear out soon. (H doesn't like mornings and DOES NOT like to babysit) Ow and her H haven't done their paperwork also. I am sooooo confused!!

Good luck CJ, and keep up the baby steps, and if you succeed, be sure you offer us Love Life Losers some of that great wisdom you have learned by going through the process!<P>You could be a D/D counselor after you are successful! <P> <P><BR>tom

Trs,<P>Ooooo, chick I love you! I hope we don't lose touch as I move over to the "In Recovery" forum. If you want, you can email me at cindy_wolfe@blm.gov (that's at work). <P>I have learned so much about affairs in the last week, it is not even funny. Looking back on it now, I think it is possible that my H tried to end things during the summer, but that the addiction was so strong, that it just sort of started up again. I don't know. But I do know that, like your H, he thought I would never be able to forgive him, it would hang over his head forever, and the OW was his only option. Add to that, the fact that one of my Bad Spirits is "Unforgiving", and I already had a track record of holding onto grudges. To be honest, that is one of the first things we are working on.<P>It took him a year to see through the fog and realize that he was taking care of four kids that were not his and not taking care of the ones that were his! It took him a year to see OW and the A in "reality", and when he did, I think it made him mad, because he felt trapped. I think he felt like he had no way out, and that I was getting on with my life. Even though your H may not want to hear it right now, you probably will want to make sure he knows that he DOES have a way out of this IF HE CHOSES. For me, one of the biggest things is that if I'm going to put my whole weight behind this, he has to too. So if your H choses no contact, and he's gonna put all his eggs in your basket, make sure he knows that you still have a basket for him.<P>Write to me if you want!<P><BR>CJ <P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Wow! CJ, I don't know what to say. How amazing!!! I do so hope it works out as I know you would, and almost all of us would, pray. Not with the same marriage you had - but with a new and improved one. Better far than any other you have ever known. <P>Please guard your heart. I want so much for your prayers to be answered affirmatively. But I hope that you will not be hurt even more deeply.<P>The recovery board may be where you need to be now. But you'll remain in my heart and in my address book.<BR> <BR>(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>Trs - I can imagine that you are seriously confused. Wouldn't it be wonderful if all the wayward spouses could wake up and smell the coffee? I hope that you, too, enjoy the wonder and delight of a new relationship with your spouse.<P>Ah, what might have been and might could be.<P>- Jane-Elise

Thanks, FaithfulWife, for your encouraging post.<P>I was glad to see that you already recognize that a romanticized idea of reconciliation is "as foggy and unrealistic as an affair." Hopefully, the pain will lessen now, but I imagine the confusion has yet to peak. Can't stop praying now! The mountain <I>is</I> bigger, but perhaps it just means the reward for reaching the top will be all the greater.<P>No, FaithfulWife, I don't really want to be in your shoes, but I would rather be in your shoes than mine right now. Within days of my wife's demand for divorce I realized that in the <I>best</I> of outcomes it would still probably be <I>years</I> before my wife and I could live together again. Healing takes time.<P>But I made my commitment a long time ago, and I <I>still</I> don't regret it. God helping, <I>I will do whatever it takes</I>.<P>You have helped me come to a decision, FaithfulWife. Even at the risk of antagonizing my wife, I am going to step up my efforts to keep her aware that I have that "basket" for her. The first time my wife moved out, with my reluctant approval, it took me months to convince her that I <I>wanted</I> her back. Now that she has actively acted against me, I imagine it will be all the harder for her to believe she still has a choice.<P>The trick will be to communicate this message while still giving her adequate space. And to convey to her that I am not too <I>proud</I> to beg, but I have chosen not to, because I don't want what she does not freely give, and because she still has my respect as well as my love. I still <I>believe</I> in her and view "the fog" as a temporary aberration.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited February 08, 2001).]

cj, <BR>Great news!!!! <BR>My best wishes for you and your stbha(soon to be husband again)!<P>Bob<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Now that we've been talking together, I almost feel like the mountain is much bigger than I first realized! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>CJ, the harder the mountain to climb, the sweeter the success! when you get tired for lack of oxygen, you are pretty near the top, take a vacation together, and the rest of the climb should be fine!<P>way to go CJ!<P>tom<BR>

I could have been the one writing your post! I am going through an almost parallel situation. My husband, who left me for the OW (their affair was going on for 1 1/2yrs.), was all ready to live happily ever after with her and her little boy. I am just now pulling myself out of the depths of despair, and moving on. I have not stopped praying for a miracle to happen and our marriage be restored, but I am also facing reality, I moved out just recently. All along my husband showed no real remorse, he felt that some people are better off with other people and that is just the way it is. He was cruel in many ways but the worst was the lack of emotion. After all we had been through, I thought I deserved at least a tear or two. I now chalk it up to the "fog", and now the fog is starting to lift. He sees me moving on and he is saying "hey wait for me"!!!! It is going to take a lot of work on both out parts, and yes, it does seem like the mountain is even bigger now. His realization has helped me to regain some self-esteem, which is something I needed very badly. Thanks for your post, HOPE is a very good thing. Good luck to you

Mazeltov my friend <P>Keep us posted on your journey. You are an inspiration to us all.<P>

(((((((((((((((((CJ)))))))))))))))))<P>Good luck in recovery. You deserve it! I hope you find the happiness and strength to rebuild your marriage.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>