It was not a very good night last night. For the first time since we decided to reconcile, Mark and I agreed that he should have a night to himself. The plan was that had some computer equipment to review (new brand of PC from our vendor--see if it would work on MSClient, etc.) at our office until about 8:30pm. At about 8:30pm, he was supposed to go to a woman's house who is our typist, to give her a franchise manual that we wrote that needed many corrections and updates. After that, he was supposed to go to on of our customers who needs massive upgrading to pick up a contract to do that work. As luck would have it, this customer is a fancy hotel/restaurant in Boulder and he had his first several nights with the OW at that hotel. Needless to say, that is NOT one of my favorite sites, and I get a little edgy whenever he has to go there for any reason. I know that's a little unreasonable to the customers (after all, they aren't the ones who did anything), but I still get anxious, probably because of memories and stuff. <P>Anyway, last night, I was fairly nervous but I thought, "Eventually he is going to have to travel for business. We need to gradually work up to overnight trips in other states," so I thought one night to himself doing work would be a good start. I told him how I felt (a little worried), and I asked if he would please call frequently and stay in touch. I also told him I would call him periodically too, mainly just to touch base and honestly to calm my worries. He agreed. <P>So, I picked up my daughter at after-school care at 5pm, and picked up my son at home at about 5:30pm. The three of us went to a music store to see if a certain CD had come in yet that my son wanted--also, my daughter just likes all kind of music so it was just for some fun. The CD had not yet come in, so as we left the music store, we called to tell "dad" about it. Then we went to the grocery store and got some fish and brussel sprouts for dinner (because he hates both, and we all love both), and we got a few other things we needed for after-school snacks and lunches. By the time we got home to start dinner, it was 7pm, but we had had fun. We sat down to eat about 7:20pm, and right after dinner, we called again to tell "dad" about dinner and to tell him about "The Mole". After that, I helped my daughter with homework (we're memorizing the speech from Romeo and Juliet "Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?"), and he called about 8:45pm to see how it was going and to let me know he was leaving the office to go to the typist's house. So far, so good, right? <P>Well, that was the last time I heard from him all night. Our office is just five or six blocks from home, so he knows I can check up on him there, but once he left, it was pretty much all trust. As the night wore on, I was pretty busy with the kids and getting lunches ready and getting them in bed--it was 10pm before I even really noticed. But I thought it was odd that he hadn't called. Finally at 10:30pm I tried calling him, and he cell phone rang four times and then went to VM. I did leave a message. This meant his phone was on, but he had left it somewhere--and he never, EVER, EVER takes his cell phone off. NEVER!!! We have Nextel celluar, so I also tried alerting him on the two-way radio, and the alert went through but he did not answer! Now, when a phone is alerted, it beeps and beeps and beeps until someone stops it, so once again, that means he left his cell phone somewhere. I tried again at 11pm and still got no answer but left a message, so I started to call to the places where he was supposed to be. The customer in Boulder was CLOSED, and the person he was supposed to meet there had gone home at 7pm, and to add salt to the wound, he had never been there. I did not have the typist's phone number, because we just hired her. <P>He finally called back at midnight, because he said he got my messages. When he got home, he smelled of alcohol (he doesn't usually drink, because he's diabetic), he smelled of smoke, and he says he was at the typist's house the whole time and left his phone in his coat pocket. Hmmm. We stayed up until 2am talking and stuff, but I can't help but think how hurt I feel. He could have scored such MAJOR trust points if he had just kept calling and been where he was supposed to be and kept his phone on. I thought that he understood that this was a situation of building trust, and now--damn he basically disappeared for three hours and can not account for where he was or who he was with. I feel like I've been taken for a fool. Why couldn't he have just been trustworthy? <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Oh, CJ. (((((((((((((((((CJ)))))))))))))))))<P>I can only imagine how you must feel now. How angry you must have been last night.<P>I have nothing to compare to this. There was, obviously, no excuse for him behaving this way. It looks like he has a long way to go before he earns your trust. <P>One more time. ((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))

(((FaithfulWife)))<P>This is <I>awful</I>. <P>He has at least stalled so much of what you two were rebuilding together.<P>How far can you take <I>acceptance</I> of the <I>unacceptable</I> without LBing? Because <I>gently</I> is the only way this is going to come out.<P>He needs to tell, and you need to know. He <I>can</I> account for this time, unless space aliens smoke and have alcohol aboard their craft! What will motivate him to do so? Acceptance.<P>If you can muster the fortitude, tell him that whatever happened is a <I>setback</I>, nothing more or less unless he keeps his secrets, in which case it will be far worse. Tell him that he may not know <I>why</I> he did what he did--that is a question that you two will have to answer after both of you know <I>what</I> he did. But you <I>need</I> to know <I>what</I> he did, and where he did it, and who was there. <P>It may be that he spent much of the night in the hotel's lounge drinking and being nostalgic for the affair. That's the most innocent explanation I can think of. But whatever it is, he <I>must</I> be convinced that yours is a safe ear to whisper the truth into. That is now your task ... once you <I>know</I>, then you can determine what the other tasks will be. <P>I hope it's not as bad as it looks.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I feel your pain CJ. Believe me I know. It will take a while for that wound to heal again. Trustworthy, that’s the word I want to feel confident with, but so far it is still hard for me to have that word in my head.<P>I don’t know what else to say.<P>((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((CJ)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>Take care,<BR>OOOO<BR>

CJ,<P>he is in withdrawal right now, and alcohol does dull the ache of the loss. Also, separateness does help, he does need some space, although i understand your fears and concerns. remember, one day at a time, and practice, practice, practice makes recovery!<P>OK so the roller coaster peaked, and is now heading down. hold on to yourself so you don't get thrown off! patience, be a leader because he needs one right now. make it safe for him to still discuss feelings with you, even if he screws up. also, you are earning his trust points for your new behavior of not holding on to stuff over his head.<P>it works both ways. hang in there, you just started and keep talking.<P>tom<p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited March 01, 2001).]

Woooooooo....sloooowwww down. First off, you don't know if "anything" happened. True, your trust is something that he has to earn back, but you can't set the bar so high that he can't get there. I am not saying he wasn't wrong - If he agreed to call and have his phone on, then he messed up. BUT, I am not so sure having that kind of agreement was such a good idea in the first place.<P>I am trying to put myself in his shoes. Sure it probably sounded like an OK idea when you both talked about it, but once he left and was on his own, if it were me I may (may) start thinking "what, am I a little child? I have to check in every hour?". Now don't misunderstand me, those thoughts would definitely not be good ones to have, I am only saying that we are human, and sometimes selfish thinking catches us off guard.<P>I am in no way sticking up for your husband. What I am suggesting is to not over-react. By attaching so much stress and pressure to the situation BEFORE it even happened, I fear that you may have been building it up to fail from the outset. Make any sense?<P>My suggestion? Write him a little letter - In it tell him how much last night bothered you. Write that you know you are being a little emotional about the whole thing. Ask him to try and understand. Write that you don't really think anything bad happened last night, but next time you guys make an arrangement like that, it would mean a lot to you if he followed through on it. Don't blame and point fingers - for when you speak like that, a person can always stop and defend themselves - and that is when an agrument ensues. But, if you talk ONLY about your feelings, it is hard for someone to argue - because they are YOUR feelings. And by saying that they are feelings, you are indirectly agreeing that feelings are sometimes irrational.<P>Remember, baby steps! Pray for patience - I am for you every morning! And trust is a two way street - sure he has to earn it, but you also have to begin to give it as well [and believe me, I know that is not an easy thing to do]. Just keep trying to look at the goal, the outcome of all this. By doing that, small things like last night may not upset you so much when you have the big picture in mind.<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Okay, <P>I hear what you all are saying, that I need to respond/react in a way that let's him know that he's "safe" telling me the truth no matter what it might be. I get that. I even think I can DO that. Last night, while we were talking, I didn't have a fit or yell and scream--as you know, that can happen so easily. But we talked rather calmly and a little factually, and I told him that being unaccountable for three hours was upsetting to me, was harming my trust, and was really contributing to me feeling insecure about things. So, in the face of adversity, I felt pretty good that we didn't fight or break down into unfair fighting, and I also don't think I did any LBs--I just stated how I was feeling without "blaming" it on him.<P>The trouble is, today I feel like the most I can offer is to reserve judgement. To me, "reserve judgement" means that I won't jump to conclusions or start something, I'll just wait and see as the facts roll in. He says he's sorry and that he made a BIG mistake, but I want to sit back and see a little. Plus, I still don't know what his BIG mistake was! <P>I especially appreciated two statements: <BR>Sisyphus, I'm glad that you so clearly reinforced for me the idea that I need to make sure he knows that WHATEVER he did, if he tells me the truth, he's "safe" in telling me and we can deal with it from there. Even if the truth is painful, there is A TON of value in getting the truth and being able to deal with it. You are so right on, if he keeps his secrets, it's so much worse. I can deal with almost anything (with a few tears, maybe) as long as its the truth!!<P>I also really appreciated your reminder, Tom, that I can earn major trust points in his eyes by reacting in a way that's not "punishing" him. Even if he made a MAJOR mistake (which could very well be the case), if I overreact, I lose brownie points--but if I react reasonably, I have the chance to earn brownie points. Also, thanks for reminding me not to hold this over his head. First, I think I better find out what exactly did happen. BUT...when I do find out, you are so right--give him a way to save face, work it out, and then don't hold it over him forever. You know me so well! <P>Can I hold it over him for a couple of days, though? Just kidding. You know me...if I can't cry, I laugh.<P>Thanks for all your thoughts and advice, guys. I have a funny feeling I'm going to need it!<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>My advice is not to hold this over his head.... a large cast iron skillet works much better! I still have my "Fryin' Pan" if you need to borrow it. <P>I agree with Tom about the withdrawal... and it is a nasty business. You just have to love him through it... Patience is going to be your best friend right now.<P>Good luck..... and come here when you need to vent.... we can take it!<P>Dawnetta

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I can totally feel what you went through last night. I am so, so, very sorry for what he put you through. I totally agree with Sisyphus. I hope that this is just a setback. Your husband needs to be totally truthful with you and like Sis said, then go from there.<P>Love and prayers,<BR>Petrie<BR>(((((CJ))))))))<BR>

CJ - I have my 5 pound rolling pin that doofus gave me for my birthday a few months after we married and I have the 9 inch cast iron skillet his mother gave me. Neither of them have been used as cranium crushers yet. Want to give it a try?<P>By the way, do you want to know my answer to what we should do to men when they really screw up like this? <BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<BR>?<P>TOTAL BODY TWEEZING <P>Without anesthesia <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cinderella:<BR><B>TOTAL BODY TWEEZING <P>Without anesthesia </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Less deterrent than you might think. I can make <I>any</I> woman <I>cringe</I> by letting her see me tweeze the insides of my nostrils (yuck, but it's definitely better when I <I>do</I> this than when I neglect it).<P>