This is my first post here and I really could use some advice. I will try to make this as short as possible. My H and I have been married for 5 1/2 years and together for 8 years and have 3 beautiful children. We are 33 and 32 and the kids are 11, 6 & 2. We have two children together and I have one from a previous marriage who he has always treated like his own. For the past 3 months now we have really been doing a lot of fighting. I would say we have been building up to these big problems for about 1 year now and it was when I realized that my husband was slipping away from me physically and emotionally. That is when I started asking him to include me more in things he was doing. You see, we haven’t gone out and done anything alone for about a year. It is very hard with 3 children and limited finances. Well when I expressed to him that I wanted to be included more and that I have realized the mistakes I have made over the years and want to be there for him more, that is when everything really triggered for the bad. It has brought up pent up emotions from him for the past 20 years of his life. Things he never discussed with me in our marriage that has bothered him. He is angry with me for now all of a sudden wanting to be there for him and why couldn’t I have been there for him earlier. Things like my lack of sex drive for a period of time after our second child and me being so negative all the time and always pointing out what he is doing wrong and not the good things he has done. He is also now feeling regrets for things he did as a teenager into young adulthood and is also bringing up things from his childhood that are really affecting him. I guess his parents used to fight in front of him all the time and only stayed married because of him. Now he is feeling that we are doing this to our kids and doesn’t want them to go through what he went through as a child.<BR>With that little bit of background, we are now going through some really serious problems, financially, emotionally and physically. He says he is still “in love” with me and still very attracted to me but he is very mad at me for the past 8 years and he does not know if and when he will ever be able to forgive me. He says he wants to stay and work things out and give 100% but he wants to take it one day at a time, which is really frustrating for me, because that means I basically have to sit back and wait for him to come around and I don't see his efforts. You see, he gets really mad and frustrated when I bring up our problems because I want to talk about them and he wants to just work them out in his head. Unfortunately, I am a person that needs answers and he can’t give them to me right now. He says part of him wants to stay and part of him wants to go. He is definitely a different person than the one I fell in love with and married. He was always the prankster and the center of everybody’s attention and now he never really talks or jokes around anymore. This was a man who used to tell me he loved me everytime he called me or just left to run a quick errand and now I am just thankful for the twice a week "I love you" and occasional peck on the cheek.<P>In one breath he will tell me he thinks it could be good again and in the next breath, he will tell me he wants to leave. Several times, I have asked him why hasn't he left yet and he says because he wants to work it out but just one day at a time and right now he feels that know matter what he does, it will never be enough for me. He gets mad when I point out the little things he does for the positive as progress and says I should just accept them for what they are and not bring them up to him because he knows what he is doing. Last night, we had another one of my weekly talks and it was the same thing where he told me the good and bad of leaving and he feels the kids would be better off if he left. I completely disagree. So I asked him if he wanted a divorce and he said no. HELP! These confusing signals are killing me emotionally. I try to be strong and happy every day because he gets mad when I look depressed. Any piece of advice would be great. By the way, I am in counseling and he is completely against it. Thanks for listening.<P><BR>

Could it be your husband is depressed and could use professional help? <P>He sounds like he is carrying around a lot of guilt, anger and frustation and is blaming himself for things that were out of his control.<P>Maybe see if you can get him to a medical doctor to run some tests and see if everything is ok physically. Speak to the doctor on your own beforehand, and tell him what is going on. Perhaps, your husband will open up to him or take his advice to speak to a professional counselor.<P>I know how tough it is when someone you love says these things. Stay strong for yourself and for your kids. Keep coming back here for advice or just to vent. <P>I wish you all the luck,<BR>Kathy

I have expressed to him several times that he needs to see a MD. He hates them because they always find something wrong with you. I know that something is wrong because for the last six weeks he ocassionally gets blurred vision in one eye. He does have high blood pressure which he won't take care of. I asked him again the other day to let me make an appointment for him to see a doctor and he said no. I told him that I would really like to see if something is medically wrong with him because of the blurred vision and that I would not want him to have a stroke or anything if it is something that we could have diagnosed before hand and his response was "Well if I have a stroke, at least I will know what is wrong with me".<P>It is so hard for me to see him in so much emotional pain. I am however only taking responsibility for the things I know I could have done differently. When we first started having our real problems a couple of months ago, I was the one conviced our marriage was over but I kept looking at the positive things that were happening (communication and the fact that he is still in the house) and started realizing that this could work. Now he seems to be the one that thinks it is over. I have tried everything to make this work and he keeps shooting me down saying that I am trying all these different ways to make him better and it is not going to work. He feels the only solution is for him to solve everything on his own and then let me know the decision. This is so hard because a part of me wishes he would just leave already so me and the kids can start our healing process but then the other part of me wants to make this really work out and be great again.<P>Thanks for your kind words and I hope things are going well for you. I am going to still try to get him to go to the doctor.<P>Michele

Dear MIchele,<BR>OK, I'll be the first one to break the ice and mention this to you. Hon, do yourself a big favor and start reading Dr Harley's Basic Concepts, and keep on going from there. I hate to say this to you, but when a spouse suddenly changes from open/warm/loving to closed-off/distant/cold/justplain quarrelsome, there is usually an underlying reason that most of us would rather not have to think about. It's called infidelity. Now, I am NOT accusing your H of this because I don't know the two of you from Adam, but I can give you the benefit of my own experience (as most of us here can do, too). <P>When my H suddenly changed from a warm, loving, kind and even funny guy to a non-communicative (except to carp, complain and criticize me), cold fish, I thought I was going crazy. Nothing made sense anymore. Suddenly he was bringing up the past (yes, even way back into childhood) and OUR past, too, except he sure wasn't remembering it the way I was! Suddenly, I was the culprit and the cause of all of his present misery. Most of what he said was pure bull****, but he said it so vehemently that I could tell he was trying to convince himself more than to convince me. I have leanred that this is called justification, that is, dealing with a guilty conscience by making the facts of reality "fit", so to speak.<P>For two months or so, I thought I was living in the twilight zone. He was becoming more and more distant from me and very secretive. I found out he had his own PO Box, and of course, a company cellphone and vehicle, which I knew. But...it was his actions that were so suspect. How could anyone change so much and so fast, I wondered. Oh...and he refused to touch me or make love to me, something brand new in our relationship. Everytime I would ask him or approach the topic, he suddenly had a back ache, or was too tired, or....etc. Then, I realized he wouldn't even look at me if I was naked. ???? Whatwas up with that, I wondered!<P>Then, one day while going through a suitcase, I found something that rocked my world. It was a recent letter from a woman that we both know, and it was very suggestive of a love letter. VERY, complete with computer-drawn hearts all along the bottom. Whether or not it was truly a love letter, it did prove that he had contact with another woman who was NOT his wife. Also, the letter revealed that they talked on the phone, and more than once. It showed me that they had some sort of a relationship in the works, so I approached him about it. He was furious! He denied even seeing the letter before! Can you imagine??! To this day, he still denies any affair or attachment of any type with this woman, but her letter said it all. Around here, this event is known as "D-Day", for discovery day. I will never forget it.<P>Since then, I've gone on to find all sorts of other evidence, all of which he denies. Let me tell you, this website has saved my sanity, Michelle. Without the articles here, and the wonderful message board system, I think I'd be in the loony bin by now. I have learned so much, and I'm not sure but I think my marriage can be saved. At least, this place offers me some solutions and really practical things I can and should do. <P>Please keep coming back here, Michelle, and start reading all that you can. I pray to God that I am wrong about your H, but sweetie, his behavior has all the earmarks of something going on without your knowledge. Of course, it also has all the earmarks of clinical depression, too, but you'll find out that depression doesn't ususally cause one person to suddenly hate or dislike another. Note the key word here is "suddenly". <P>Just read and keep your eyes opened and pray. <P>Praying for you,<BR>Winny<P><p>[This message has been edited by Winnytoo (edited June 08, 2001).]

My husband and I have gone over that topic several times too and he swears there is nobody else and I have to believe him. That is not to say it isn't always in the back of my mind. When he and I met over 8 years ago, I was still married but separated from my then spouse and he would not have anything to do with me until I was legally divorced. <P>He does have one comment he uses over and over when I question anything about him and that is "I am so tired of being judged and made out to be the bad guy when I have done nothing wrong". The new him has now decided to be the bad person that everyone makes him out to be. He gets mad at me because I have learned not to dwell on our arguments and just use them as a learning experience. He makes comments like "How can you just turn your emotions on and off". I just tell him is not a matter of turning my emotions on an off its just that I don't dwell on the little things anymore. When we do argue and I leave the room for several hours, he starts following me around like a puppy wondering where I am. These are the little things that give me hope that he really doesn't want to leave but that maybe he feels like he has "crossed that line" and doesn't know how to come back over. We stopped fighting for about two weeks but that was because he was so withdrawn, he wasn't talking to anybody. Now that he is fighting again it makes me feel like maybe I am getting him back into the Conflict stage of our marriage.<P>I have told him time and time again that he is making this bigger than it really is or should be and that it is completely fixable if he wants to to be. At this time I believe that he is suffering from depression. We have not made love in 4 weeks which has been the length of his deepened depression. He shows complete lack of insterest in sex period and not just with me. He doesn't even "read" his Playboy magazines anymore.<P>Just recently, for the 3rd time, his mother was diagnosed with cancer. That was when he really kind of started slipping into this distant person. He also recently started a new job in January of this year and it involves a lot more stress than he has ever had. Though he has never been diagnosed, my husband is borderline OCD and in his new job, it is impossible for him to get his work completed everday which I know drives him crazy. He has never had a job where work was left over until the next morning.<P>I have been doing a lot of reading and it is helping. I am also finding that I am doing a lot more praying than I have ever done. I am just hanging in here trying to be supportive of his needs right now and making sure that my children are as unaffected as possible.<P>Thanks for your words of advice.<P><p>[This message has been edited by sballplyr (edited June 08, 2001).]

Michelle,<BR>I'm glad to hear that you seem to be reading a lot of the material here (your use of "conflict stage" told me you are reading Dr Harley's info). You are very wise to want to keep the lines of communication open with your H and yet, you are smart enough to believe that he might, or could, find interest in someone else. (You said it is always in the back of your mind.) I think you are approaching your problems in a healthy way.<P>When I first met my H, I was legally separated from my ex. He, too, said that he wouldn't start a serious relationship with me until my previous one was over. I always admired that, and up until recently, banked on it. <P>My H started a new job, too, just last year and his life was filled with all kinds of stress, including he was starting to go thru mid-life crisis. Until I could join him in our new home/city, he lived here alone for 3 months. During that time he claims he had a nervous breakdown, and he decided that he really liked living alone, without the burdens of a marriage. He claims he went through a horrible drepression with all of the classic symptoms including loss of weight, appetite, loss of outside interests, sleep disturbances, low to no sex drive, and all the rest. All of this is perfectly believable and plausible.I believe this really happened to him.<P>I also believe the letter I found and other things that he should not have in his possession, things with the OW's name on them. I believe that his sudden lack of sex drive isn't real, either, since he masturbates every time we are in bed together. But he won't touch me.<P>If I could have looked into a crystal ball last year and seen what this year would be like, I wouldn't have believed it. Not him! As straight as an arrow, with qualities that any woman would love in a man, my H was the most loyal and true-blue person I've ever known. Except for a temper that can get pretty awesome if he is pushed hard enough, I would have said he was the perfect guy. <P>But, he is not in love with me at this time. He loves another, of this I am sure, but he will go to his grave denying it. THAT I know for sure, too. I only saw things as they truly are when I was ready to see them that way. Until then, I was blinded by my love for him and by my own fear of losing him.<P>Stay smart...keep on keeping on and follow your gut hunches, ok? I wish to GOD I had followed mine a whole lot sooner...<P>Hugs,<BR>Winny

I forgot to ask you something: I am just curious as to why your first post was here in this forum (Divorce/Divorced), and not in one of the others such as General Questions, or Emotional Needs, etc.?<P>I'm just nosy, I guess! I didn't even look at Divorce/Divorced for about the first 2 months or so. To me, it seemed too scary.<P>Winny

SBP(softballplayer??)<P>I'm literally your H's age and I have to admit I've experienced many of the same reactions and emotions as your H (I too, 3 kids, limited finances, never went out with W). I know the frustration he's feeling.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...very mad at me for the past 8 years<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This I don't understand...why has he been mad for 8 years and forgive you for what?? I don't necessarily think affair...depression is more likely especially since you mention OCD...those two co-mingle quite a bit. And it seems to me that this hasn't been an overnight deal you've alluded to a period of build up time (about 1+ y).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have expressed to him several times that he needs to see a MD. He hates them because they always find something wrong with you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Duh...only if you have something wrong!!! You have 3 kids, his health is important. When was the last time he had a physical?? 5-10 years?? He would be due for one anyway. Try not to be terribly pushy about it but get him to one.<P>dd

Hi dumbdumb<P>Hopefully a mans point of view may help me understand a little bit more. Why were you feeling the frustrations in your marriage and were you able to reconcile with your wife?<P>The reasons he says his is mad at me for the past 8 years is because he says I was never there for him emotionally when he needed me but he also says it that he never told me anything that was really bothering him. For example, at holidays, we would spend a couple of hours at his mom and dads house and then the rest of the day at my family's house. This really hurt him but never said anything to me but now, after 8 years, he is making it one of our problems. Also, we had our daughter before we got married and on our wedding day, his parents both told me that now she won't be illegitimate anymore. Well, of course words like that hurt and it was 2 years before I could completely forgive his mom and dad for saying those words about my daughter. He is also mad at me for now wanting to try and fix the things that I know I have done wrong and my certain behaviors that bother him (negativity, I always look at the glass half empty). He keeps telling "why now" do you want to fix this and "where were you when I really needed you". I expressed to him that I realized some of the things I was doing that could have led to our problems like pointing out his bad traits instead of the good and also needing to make love to him more and trying to become more positive, especially since he has now become the negative person in the relationship and I have become the positive person. We have really had our share of bad luck for the past three months. We started having severe marital problems, we found out his mom has kidney cancer and on our first real family vacation away (Memorial Day Weekend), the transmission in our Explorer went out to the tune of $3700.00. That topped with all of our other financial problems seems to be his breaking point because we were making progress before the car broke down. Now I know things could be a lot worse but it seems like every week there is some new added stress that combined with our marriage problems, my husband is now willing to throw it all away. He can't even look at the positive things that are/have been happening. He says he is just waiting for the next bad thing to happen. He did tell me today that when he sees things are going good between us, part of him gets angry at me for not being there the times when he needed me and once that happens, the day is usually shot from there because then we fall into the "Whats wrong questioning". I tried to tell him that if he keeps thinking that way, we will never get passed this hurdle. I understand it is going to take him time to heel and I don't expect him to forget everything right away but if he can't start forgiving first, how do we move passed this stage. He says he is afraid things will go back to being good again for a while and then we will start back into the same routines that got us into trouble in the first place. HELP!<P>As far as him seeing a doctor, he has not had a physical since I have known him and that is 8 years. We do know he has high blood pressure and I know right now he is experiencing a lot of stress. I am going to try to get him into the doctor without pushing the issue.<P>I have one more question I hope someone can give me some insight on and that is: What can I do about the fact that he thinks I am mad when I don't talk when we are around each other in the house but if I do try to talk to him he gets mad because I am talking too much. Last night for example, I was asking him questions about the Laker game, during the game, and as soon as I left the room, he asked one of his friends, "What's with all the questions?" HELP!<P>Thanks.<P>Michele<P>[This message has been edited by sballplyr (edited June 11, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by sballplyr (edited June 11, 2001).]