I called my attorney today to find out that he requested an adjornment on my hearing!! My attorney said that we didn't have enough information on my H (of course not, he's provided nothing to me). <P>So my H got what he wanted - postponement - NOT by my request or desire.<P>I was ready to go to court and move forward and NOW I'm back in limbo again!!!!<P>My attorney said that if the adjornment wasn't granted, that he'd let the case be dismissed, and we'd refile and start over.<P><SCREAM><P>In the meantime, after once again refusing to go to AA and insisting that all I wanted was vengence, I sent my H an email that basically once again he'd chosen booze over his family - which IS the definition of an alcoholic. And I said that I was too exhausted and sad to want vengence, that my dreams had been destroyed and I simply wanted peace.<P>His response:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And after several opportunities you have chosen pain over understanding. I would gladly come home, wear my wedding ring, give you full access to my phone, bank and email, go to confession and mass. Your fetish with your world crumbling into dust is too much. You would rather have that than me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bumper please help!! I'm totally losing my grip on reality after holding on so well for so long!!<P>I need a swift kick or something. I really don't know if I have the strength to hold out.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

No swift kicks from this corner....<P><B>((((((((((BR))))))))))</B><BR>

{{{BR}}}, Your H's response sounds so much like something I'd get from my H. My H also accuses me of being motivated by vengeance and playing the victim. I think alcoholics are driven to blame and demean others as much as they are driven to drink. I am supposed to go to court next Tuesday for a permanent restraining order and now my H is trying to get a restraining order against me (don't have any idea on what grounds).

BR,<P>Slow down, If the attorney thinks he doesn't have enough information on your STBX, the next question : "Counselor,why don't you have enough information on my STBX?" followed by: "What steps did you take to gather this information in time for the hearing?"<P>I'm not sure about rules of civil procedure, but I have a hunch your lawyer was way out of line in requesting a delay without first consulting you. He is supposed to be representing your interests.<P>What I'm suggesting here is that you not allow him to put the responsibility on you for his failure to perform the service he is being paid to do. If your ex didn't volunteer the information, it is the lawyer's responsibility to get it by whatever lawful means necessary. <P>BR, all of this is bull****, both from your STBX and from your lawyer. All these delays serve to keep the fees going up. Your lawyer had a responsibility to let you know all the information he needed. Then if you STBX doesn't cooperate and provide you with the information, your lawyer has the option to subpoena him to a deposition where he can be compelled to provide the information.<P>I don't know what your relationship is with your lawyer, but if you aren't satisfied with the service over the phone, send him a letter asking these questions, and send it by certified mail, return reciept requested. And in addition to asking the questions, put in a line that you hope this matter can be resolved without involving the Bar Association.<P>As for that email from you STBX, what a crock! You didn't hold him down and pour the alcohol down his throat. You didn't lead him by the crotch to another woman's bed. And the other woman didn't trick him into it either. He made some real bad choices, and he made them by himself, aided only by the delusion afforded him by the alcohol he chose to consume. Once again, he is trying to play lets make a deal, trying to avoid the normal, natural consequences of his actions. Very, very consistant with alcoholic behavior.<P>Would he be as willing to sacrifice his family, children and home over his "right" to eat green beans, hot dogs, or muffins?<P>Your frustration is normal. There isn't a whole lot you can do about it, except chalk it up to experience. Life has some cruel lessons for us, and you've just learned one of them. Now you know to put your lawyer on the spot, and don't let him pull that on you again. Keep this in mind:<P>"No one ever takes advantage of you without your permission."<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BR}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<P>

BrambleRose, I can't imagine my lawyer doing something like that without consulting me first. Mindboggling. If I were in your shoes, I think I'd be looking for another lawyer.<P>As far as your husband's email goes, it's interesting that he thinks you've "chosen pain over understanding". He's actually got it half right! You've chosen pain, sure enough, but you've chosen it over living in a fantasy world (his, specifically).<P>Your husband has a very odd idea about what "understanding" is...<BR>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BrambleRose}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>No swift kicks from me either, but I will bonk you on the head with a fry pan. <P><BR>BONK!!!<P>Come on, BR! You are not losing your grip on reality. You know darn well what is real and what is not. You know darn well what is right for you to do and what is not. (This is in big letters) YOU KNOW DARN WELL WHO IS FACING REALITY HERE AND WHO IS NOT! <P>I learned something really important from my counselor tonight, and I want to share it with you. I told her that I felt as if I could not trust my own senses sometimes, because my perceptions were so out-of-tune. Well, she asked me these questions: Can you trust your perceptions at work? Are your instincts okay at work? Are you able to tell what is and is not happening at work? How about with your friends? Are your perceptions of your friends accurate? Does your intuition seem to be "out of whack" with your friends? What about with your children? Do your perceptions about your children seem trustworthy? Are your intuitions pretty on target with your children?\<P>If your perceptions are right on target in every OTHER area of your life, then they are probably right on target in this area too. Chances are more likely that you don't like what you are perceiving, or you are trying to deny what you are perceiving, (and this was the one that fit for me) or YOU ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU ARE PERCEIVING. Trust your instincts. <P>So, BR, do you have a grip on reality in every OTHER area of your life? Then you have a good grasp of reality here too. He is just playing with your head--messing with your mind. Don't you let him. You KNOW what is right here; just stand by your guns and do what is right. <P><BR>CJ<P><BR>P.S. Do you need some Tylenol?<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<<quote:<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>And after several opportunities you have chosen pain over understanding. I would gladly come home, wear my wedding ring, give you full access to my phone, bank and email, go to confession and mass. Your fetish with your world crumbling into dust is too much. You would rather have that than me.>><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>Spoken like a true alcoholic! Isn't it amazing how deft they are at taking our own words, distorting them, then leveling them right back at us? This character's a bright one alright. Very smart and manipulative. I feel for ya, BR. At times I think I've been intellectualized and rationalized to death by my alcoholic stb-axed. But you are right on the money with the statement, they have chosen alcohol and an incompatible lifestyle over their families. It's sad, but true. My husband is well enmeshed in his tawdry exit affair, but he doesn't know I know about it yet. Had it verified through a P.I. The main entertainment? Consuming alcohol, like every night. I guess that's his definition of "moderately" drinking an "occasional" glass of wine. Pffffffftt!<P>Here's to ya toots,<BR>Nell<BR>

Thanks everyone for the replies!! <P><B>Bumper</B> ~ My favorite BS detector! <P>Ok, I have called my attorney and requested an appointment. I'll be asking some of these questions, that's for sure.<P>I do know that the court date did happen pretty quickly ~ we had to wait the 35 days after I served him for his response, and when there was none we got 10 days notice for a default hearing. My husband of course isn't responding, just ignoring the whole thing. I was told that we have to get some motions prepared to subpoena the whole mess, because the hearing would have been a waste of time, without the financial information for a settlement.<P>Regardless, I do think you are right, something's not right in this picture. I'll have a list of questions with me when I go into see him next week.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Would he be as willing to sacrifice his family, children and home over his "right" to eat green beans, hot dogs, or muffins?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Heehee, I thought this was such a good question, that I asked him myself! I said, "H, if I asked, would you give up forever eating prime rib for me and the kids?"<P>And his response was no. He wouldn't stop doing anything of the sort, because he doesn't want me to "control" him.<P>I can now see why it is so easy to become screwed up in our thinking while living with an active alcoholic.<P>Instead of understanding that I can make requests, that he can choose to grant or choose to ignore, and that I in return have choices of reaction to his choices as a consequence...<P>He sees it all as my "controlling" him. He wants to avoid a consequence, and feels that I am blackmailing him into doing what I want.<P>Such a difference in approach, but achieved with only a slight twist!<P>And of course, he uses this to manipulate me - by accusing me of trying to control him, in the past, I would have instantly backed off into enabling behavior, not allowing a consequence to happen!<P><B>Gnome</B> ~<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As far as your husband's email goes, it's interesting that he thinks you've "chosen pain over understanding". He's actually got it half right! You've chosen pain, sure enough, but you've chosen it over living in a fantasy world (his, specifically).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly. Painful reality is my preference, over fantasy that will hurt even worse in the end. I was reading over some other responses that he wrote to me about AA and the 12 steps, and he described EXACTLY the reason why an alcoholic drinks - and yet - it was his defense!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My H wrote: Not all people drink to avoid reality or the world, just like enjoying loud music, a fast car, laughing too loud, a few drinks help us embrace the emotions that daily life suppresses. The challenge, which some seek to avoid, is to keep aspects of our life from overwhelming the rest of life. Alcohol can do this, as well as TV or potato chips.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He has it exactly backward, just like an alcoholic <P><B>CJ</B> ~<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If your perceptions are right on target in every OTHER area of your life, then they are probably right on target in this area too. Chances are more likely that you don't like what you are perceiving, or you are trying to deny what you are perceiving, (and this was the one that fit for me) or YOU ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU ARE PERCEIVING. Trust your instincts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Aaaaaaaaaaah - THANK YOU. This was one of the FIRST lessons I learned in counseling too, and I have forgotten it!! My H can so easily make me doubt myself - it is a horrible, cunning, powerful, and baffling disease!<P>And acceptance, oh dear. You know, I've really been at peace with my decision to divorce. I know it is what I really need: To be very far away from his raging uncontrolled disease. But I don't LIKE that he's an alcoholic and I don't LIKE the life that I'm facing as a single mom of 3. And I'm still dealing with some anger, which indicates that I am definitely not there with acceptance yet.<P>I *want* him to get better and make this right. I want it so badly, for him to go into recovery and to heal our family, not destroy it. <P>It would be so easy to listen to his: "Lets make a deal" and slip into fantasy.<P>It's not under my control though, and I guess I've been mentally fighting it.<P>I prayed all the last 2 weeks for willingness to accept God's will. I made it to frequent daily mass, and I really tried to stay focused on what was important.<P><BR>So WHY, WHY, WHY do I have to keep divorcing this man???<P>At least, thats what it feels like. I filed last fall, only to put it on hold while I was having medical complications, and then my H wanted to reconcile.<P>Then this spring, I had to get it all restarted again.<P>And NOW - I may have to start ALL OVER AGAIN - and NOW - I probably have to go find a new attorney!!!!<P>The third time may be the charm?<P>Sometimes I think to myself: It's a sign from God, he doesn't want me to divorce my H!!!<P>I wish God really spoke like that. So what IS going on here???<P><B>Nell</B> ~<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Spoken like a true alcoholic! Isn't it amazing how deft they are at taking our own words, distorting them, then leveling them right back at us? This character's a bright one alright. Very smart and manipulative. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, mine has heard enough "recovery" out of me to be very very dangerous. I have to call my sponsor when he starts using recovery language back at me - just to keep my head on straight. Yes, he's very bright - he's got an IQ of 185. Positively brilliant, and therefore incredibly difficult to stay steady around. His own mother complains about it, she trys to talk to him, and can never gain the upper hand - the conversations always end with him sounding completely reasonable with everything he's doing and saying!<P>Bleah.<P>Thanks everyone. I guess I'll be starting divorce #3 here shortly!!!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

BR, I really feel for you. I have to remind myself all the time that there is no possibility of restoring my marriage until my H is clean and sober. Having a restraining order, an enforced Plan B if you will, helps because even hearing about what he's doing sends me into a spin. It's so much easier not seeing or hearing him directly. <P>My H has done all the manipulative tricks that your H has. He got sober after we were together 8 years and was a different person for almost 10 years. Now everything he doesn't like about himself is suddenly something he doesn't like about me. He remembers sobriety as a time of feeling like he was putting on an act to impress everyone else, especially me. I think he blamed sobriety for his discontent rather than facing his issues. We both thought we were okay and no longer needed the program. Wrong for both of us. <P>Remember what Steve H. recommended. That speaks mouthfuls. I have to keep reminding myself of that, too. If you and your H are supposed to be together, you will be. Just keep doing what you know is right. Be the best person you can be. Acceptance is a process and accepting something doesn't necessarily mean liking it, just not denying it or fighting against it anymore. <P>Being a single mother of 3 is hard. My H left me with 6 teens: stepson, niece, and nephew and several friends. I was unable to have kids but ended up with a houseful. They're all gone now, driven away by the chaos. From my point of view, your kids are a blessing. I have to run a business by myself that we've run for 6 years together. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to do it until I realized I've really been doing it pretty much for the past 10 months. <P>My H knows all the recovery language because he was clean and sober in AA for years. His strategy now is to deny any excessive use of either drugs or alcohol and tell his family and his lawyer I'm making up vengeful lies. That's wonderful that you have a sponsor you can call. No one can live with an alcoholic and maintain their serenity without a program, it's not because we're weak or defective. <P>Reading your posts is a great support to me. I hear so much from you and from the advice of others that I need to hear.