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HI Again,
I'm sorry for your desision. It's always sad when a Marriage ends and Satan wins. I will pray for you, your H and Children. GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

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desperate
"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??"
"Wisdom and PRAYER is why!!"


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OmegaLove, I'm not going to pretend that I understand much of what you're trying to say, but I get the impression that you are essentially defining the marriage relationship as a state of psychological fusion. While fusion is an important dynamic in many if not most marriage relationships, it is not the only dynamic.

Although one spouse's behavior can increase the other's vulnerability to an affair, no one can make their spouse have an affair. And it is quite possible for someone to have an affair entirely of their own accord.

You raise an interesting point about self-love. I'm not sure what to think of it. But whether or not one should love oneself unconditionally, I think it is safe to say that self-respect is not unconditional. And if one chooses to act in a manner worthy of self-respect, I don't know whether the question of unconditional self-love can ever really be put to the test.

For me at least, it is enough to know that God loves me unconditionally, and to live with integrity.


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I'm not sure how this plays into the self-love self-respect thing- but here are my two cents and how i have felt these past ten years!!

I married, I'm sure, for the wrong reasons- I was 19, I had a son (first and only time of sex and I was pregnant at age of 17 1/2)- I was outgoing, sure of myself, smart and pretty- seeds of unsurity were planted in me after I had my son that "no one will want to date a girl with a child"- and I think that despite the red flags, I married the first "christain-"(or so I thought) young man that came along and loved both my son and me..

As the months turned into years, i felt myself becoming less and less of a functioning, happy, outgoing person- about 98% due to the fact that within one year of marriage- my husband COMPLETELY changed into a hateful, sour jerk (and he readily admits to that!)

He wasn't interested in attending church, he wasn't interested in me- i kept trying everything i could think of- everything i knew to do and nothing worked- the more I tried- and the more he pushed me away- the more beaten down I became- that is perhaps, what makes me the angriest, is that he beat me down so badly- and then went out looking for funloving carefree women to have sex with!!! He virtually destroyed my self esteem and had no respect for me- then went on to do the same thing to all of his other women as well!! He knows this, and cries today to me because he knows this... He also took the ONE thing, because of my family history and the painful things I experienced in the realm of infidelity- he took the ONE thing that would destroy me and used it- did it- and ENJOYED IT!!! Now as I look at him I can't help but think "him? Him of ALL people- when he KNEW my past and my pain?" It shows me that he had no love for me at all for all of these years..

I didn't know about his affairs until March- I had gut feelings, but he lied to me so convincingly that I also was losing self esteem and self respect because it seemed like maybe I was just a psycho that didn't know what I was talking about- when actually- I DID!!! I really wasn't an idiot- I was DEAD ON! But the more he denied it, the more I thought maybe I was just stupid!!

Now- I look at myself and know that I really do have a lot of work to do!! I have to pick up the pieces of myself that were so ingrained with him, and try to put it back together and be a better person than what I have been these past few years especially!! I am so sickened because I feel like, he married me, wasted my time, used me up, and then left me standing here a completely broken person with a bunch of baggage!!!- It took a lot to break me- but boy he sure WON!!! All the while he got to have his fun- and now he is trying to step back into the picture as a "saved" man and living for the Lord...

He has lost nothing- and I have lost everything...

I can not reconcile with him- I can forgive him- but the years of having him have no respect for me are NEVER going to repeat themselves...If I reconcile with him- I'm planting the seed in his head that "hey- it's ok- i had my fun and lied and she never knew- and I get to have my happy life back- so why not do it again??" To me I question his faith, I question his sincerity and motivation, I question whether or not his relationship with God will last and be strong- i thought he had one when i married him, ya know???

In order for me to get back my self respect and self love, I need to stand up as an independant woman- I want to be SURE of myself- I want to be confident in God again- I want to focus on myself and my kids- and I AM VOWING THAT I WILL NEVER USE ANOTHER PERSON to try and validate my own self worth- it has to come from God and nowhere else...people let you down, and in my case- destroy you- and if I ever have a relationship with someone else again- I want it to be that I enhance them, and they enhance me- but that we aren't trying touse eachother TO COMPLETE one another..

I became an enabler because of my low self worth-

I guess if that is what you meant by it being my fault- then you are right- but my low self worth was a direct result of his actions, words and attitudes- personally- if I can be childish- "he started it"- yet I did nothing to stop it...

Until now

Does this make sense? There are so many people out there that struggle with esteem and respect issues- and personally, I think there are aLOT of people that latch right on to people who do, because they can manipulate and hurt and be selfish.... As I look around at nearly all the relationships amoung my family and friends, I see this to be true- there is one person with esteem issues that is trying- and one person that is selfish and manipulative that is using....(I guess if you really look hard- the manipulator has esteem issues too- like the playground bully scenario)- but regardless- there is always one strong and one weak person- and I'm not going to be disrespected any more- not by him- not by my children (who learned it from him)- not by friends and family- I'm not going to turn into an idiot- but I'm going to be strong and loving and firm!!

Well- that is my two cents, and a little more history about why I have chosen to divorce him- godliness or not- I'm going to reclaim what is mine- SELF RESPECT AND SELF LOVE!!
NO WILL TAKE THAT AWAY AGAIN!!!

Thanks!
TLFM

I have to be able to look people in the eye once again- and to feel comfortable and confident..

Omega- you asked if I hate him as the adulterer- and I do-

You can only be rejected emotionally, spiritually, physically and mentally so many times before it starts to take a HUGE toll on your self esteem!! (I can remember saying to him "what is wrong with me that you don't even want to talk to me or take me on a date?")- but of course- he would never say....


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quote:
Originally posted by Too Late For Me?:
i kept trying everything i could think of- everything i knew to do and nothing worked- the more I tried- and the more he pushed me away- the more beaten down I became- that is perhaps, what makes me the angriest, is that he beat me down so badly- and then went out looking for funloving carefree women to have sex with!!! He virtually destroyed my self esteem and had no respect for me-

I can relate to this. My wife's neglect of me and my inability to penetrate her growing barriers against intimacy were primary triggers for the depression I struggled with for years. It seemed like anything I did or didn't do might upset her, and nothing hurt me more than hurting her. I felt like I had failed in our relationship, which was the one thing that mattered the most to me. Because I understood what was happening to me, and was able to fulfill my responsibilities, my self-respect remained pretty intact. But my self-esteem dropped very low.

And yet, my wife's behavior did not cause my depression. I cannot accuse her of beating me down. I beat myself down by thinking I could fix our relationship and thus taking responsibility for it. I was not able to get my depression under control until I realized that I was responsible only for doing what was right, and that my wife's attitudes and feelings were her problem.

The flip side of this is that, just as I had to give up responsibility for my wife's feelings, I had to own my feelings. My depression was my responsibility, not my wife's.

quote:
Now as I look at him I can't help but think "him? Him of ALL people- when he KNEW my past and my pain?" It shows me that he had no love for me at all for all of these years..

I'm afraid I have to agree with your assessment. Perhaps, though, he loved you as well as he was able (i.e. not very well). One cannot love another better than one loves oneself. Chances are, your husband was acting out some problem of his own, and you were merely "collateral damage".

I too had a "her of all people" reaction to my wife's desertion. My wife is as sensitive and compassionate as they come, and for her to betray and use me as she did, when I had been nothing but good to her for all those years...well, I doubt my ability to trust will ever recover from such a blow.

On the other hand, I now know that I can survive the ultimate betrayal by the one person in a position to hurt me the most. Therefore, opening my heart to that risk again is not as scary as it once was...

quote:
All the while he got to have his fun- and now he is trying to step back into the picture as a "saved" man and living for the Lord...

He has lost nothing- and I have lost everything...


He lost you. Perhaps that means something to him now.

quote:
I can not reconcile with him- I can forgive him- but the years of having him have no respect for me are NEVER going to repeat themselves...If I reconcile with him- I'm planting the seed in his head that "hey- it's ok- i had my fun and lied and she never knew- and I get to have my happy life back- so why not do it again??" To me I question his faith, I question his sincerity and motivation, I question whether or not his relationship with God will last and be strong- i thought he had one when i married him, ya know???

It would be foolish for you not to question these things, and I doubt your husband could ever fully earn your trust. But then, I doubt you could ever trust any man after what you went through.

I'm not advising you to give your husband another chance, but do not underestimate God's power to heal both you and your husband, whether separately or together. Perhaps despite my own skepticism, even trust could be restored.

quote:
In order for me to get back my self respect and self love, I need to stand up as an independant woman- I want to be SURE of myself- I want to be confident in God again- I want to focus on myself and my kids- and I AM VOWING THAT I WILL NEVER USE ANOTHER PERSON to try and validate my own self worth- it has to come from God and nowhere else...people let you down, and in my case- destroy you- and if I ever have a relationship with someone else again- I want it to be that I enhance them, and they enhance me- but that we aren't trying touse eachother TO COMPLETE one another..

I think this is exactly what you should be doing right now. Very laudable goals.

Personally, I believe that it is only after you get to this point of self-love, self-respect, and independence that you will really be able to judge whether a reconciliation with your husband is good, bad, or impossible.

That's why I suggested that you not rush into any decisions. Just work on your own growth, and draw those boundaries.

quote:
There are so many people out there that struggle with esteem and respect issues- and personally, I think there are aLOT of people that latch right on to people who do, because they can manipulate and hurt and be selfish.... As I look around at nearly all the relationships amoung my family and friends, I see this to be true- there is one person with esteem issues that is trying- and one person that is selfish and manipulative that is using....(I guess if you really look hard- the manipulator has esteem issues too- like the playground bully scenario)- but regardless- there is always one strong and one weak person-

Hmm. I don't think it's so cut and dried. In my own situation, my wife always had esteem issues, whereas I did not have much of a problem with self-esteem until I fell into depression. I wouldn't characterize either of us as selfish or manipulative, and I think both of us were trying in our own ways. I guess I wilted under the pressure, whereas my wife snapped.

quote:
Well- that is my two cents, and a little more history about why I have chosen to divorce him- godliness or not- I'm going to reclaim what is mine- SELF RESPECT AND SELF LOVE!!

Heh. I really wouldn't worry about whether divorcing your husband is a "godly" action. It's easily defensible by any Biblical standard I've ever heard of. The big question is, what happens next?

Fortunately, you won't have to answer that for a while...

quote:
Omega- you asked if I hate him as the adulterer- and I do-

You can only be rejected emotionally, spiritually, physically and mentally so many times before it starts to take a HUGE toll on your self esteem!!


Hatred is not the same thing as low self-esteem. And hatred of a person is not the same thing as hatred of a deed.

quote:
(I can remember saying to him "what is wrong with me that you don't even want to talk to me or take me on a date?")- but of course- he would never say....

How could your husband answer that, when the problem was not what was wrong with you, but what was wrong with him?


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Gnome-
Will you marry me?
LOL
Thanks for your replies and support! I hope that everything turns out great for you!!! I know I have a long way to go- but guess what??? I went back to church yesterday!!! Are you proud!!!??
Maybe my 30's WILL be better than my 20's ever were!

TLFM


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quote:
Originally posted by Too Late For Me?:
Gnome-
Will you marry me?

Er...well...um...uh...I'm flattered, but...

Whether my wife likes it or not, I'm still very thoroughly married.

quote:
I know I have a long way to go- but guess what??? I went back to church yesterday!!! Are you proud!!!??

It's a great idea, but in my opinion it is even more important to cultivate good Christian friendships with people who can serve as mentors. I have found that going to Bible studies is a good way of meeting such people.


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Jesus' hold up a standard for his followers to use in response to adultery and it is forgiveness. Jesus hold up a standard for forgivness, it includes forgetting.

You may beleive that you cannot forget...and you are right! Thankfully, Jesus is here to help. With Him all things are possible.

Your husband is repentent, forgive him and stop the divorce.

No one wins in a divorce, no one that is except our enemy satan.

Mrs. A.


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Mrs. A
I'm sorry- I know what Jesus held up to us as an example- I try daily- but am failing badly. I have forgiven him- but also daily question his faith and changes- he grew up learning how to talk the talk- and he is a manipulator.

My STBX's repentence is not enough for me to welcome him right back in with open arms- I have too many questions- and I think if you knew more of my story and the history and his hatred for me these ten years, you wouldn't advise me to stop this divorce. Just because you love and forgive someone, doesn't mean that you should travel the same path twice!! I strongly believe that! It's called learning your lesson and applying it the next go round.

No one has been winning in my family for a long time- and by divorcing him, I will atleast be able to move on in my life with my children with some shred of dignity and self respect.

I appreciate your view, but have to respectfull disagree...if you knew of my circumstances, you might re-think your advice to me....

Thank you
TLFM


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TLFM,
I admire your views and strengths through this difficult time in your life, and most importantly, I admire how you articulate the views and opinions of your situation. As I stated in my previous msg to you, the decision of whether or not you proceed with divorcing your husband is strictly your decision. It's good to welcome opinion, but when it comes right down to the reality in making decisions final, you have to live with any choices you make in life. Some of us can only relate to your situation if we have been in your shoes, and others are only going by what you tell them. Although you have explained your situation as must as possible, we will never know what you really went through.

The decision you make is between you and your God. HE is the only one besides yourself that knows what you felt, feel, and what you are going through. Stay strong, and may God be with you and your children during these difficult times.

Who knows what the future holds for you and your husband, and how God will work things out for you and him. At least if you go through w/the divorce, your husband will know the damage he caused by his decisions. There's no law that states you can't get back together someday. From reading your msgs, he is going to lose a good wife.

OPINIONATORS: Being betrayed by someone you love is VERY hard to deal with. Yes, forgive in your heart! If many of you read your Bibles, many times in the Bible God compared the sins of people to that of adultery and being drunk......so that maybe we can comprehend the damage of our sins.....


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TLFM,
I understand your distrust of your H. I am not going to give you an opinion because it is meaningless. I have endured 9 affairs in the last 8 years of our marriage by my count. There probably have been more because I only know about those because I was snooping to get the details to confront her with them.

Am I going to divorce her? No, because whatever I show her Jesus is going to show me when I see Him on judgement day. Besides I want to show her the love He has shown me. I would not be a Christian if I sought only what made me feel good. I know this is sounding a little strong but bear with me. I maried my W at God's request. From your post you entered your marriage for reasons other than God asking you to do so. Your H is working on getting his relationship right with Jesus just as you are. He is not perfect just like you. Yet, what you are doing is what some would call the holier than thou approach.

You have children to consider. You have to consider how this is going to affect them. From researchers who have been on Focus on the Family the effect is one of the worst things parents can do to children. I can attest to that because my W is the product of a broken home. Though my parents aren't divorced, they both committed adultery. It was devastating to me to find that my mother had committed adultery. I knew about my father as a child which is why I am faithful to my W and mostly because God has been directing my path.

Your marriage like mine began with a sin: fornication. My W and I had sex before we were married before man and God. I did so out of ignorance. But ignorance does not dismiss the act as being wrong. Sin only causes pain as you are well aware. Will your pain go away by divorcing you H? No, because the damage has been done. Only time, lots of prayer, and discussing with your H is going to heal those wounds.

I'm not telling not to divorce. But God wants you to reconcile with your H because he is asking for your forgiveness. If you truly love the LOrd, you will do His will. DOn't do it out of oigation. Do it because you truly love God. I see us all doing a lot of things because we want to feel good. We need to start doing things because we love God. When Jesus died on the cross for our sins, I am willing to bet it felt many times more painful than all of our pain combined here because what He felt included what we feel. That's love. What we refer to love pales in comparison. We are to follow His example.

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God Bless,
Rob

regilmor@swbell.net


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