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Nellie1 Offline OP
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Is there anyone else here who is NOT relieved to be "rid of" their spouse? Anyone whose spouse was basically a good person (before their affair, if the spouse was the WS)? Anyone who remains convinced that their spouse is still a good person, at least deep down?

Anyone who still loves their spouse or ex-spouse? Anyone who is standing for their marriage?

I know there have been people here who could answer affirmitively to those questions in the past - I have to wonder if they have all left because of the overwhelmingly negative attitudes here.


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I thought my ex was a good person and I loved her very much, I thought that the way things were was the way marriage was I didn't know that I deserved to be treated different and after the A and seperation I began to see all the little things she did over the years and how she blamed me for everything the ways she tried to always change me, My ex didn't appreciate me. I wasn't perfect but I feel I tried, I can see now no matter what I did it was going to be wrong, She was never satisied and I quess she is having same trroubles with OM , she still wants to blame me for her problems.


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I still think my x spouse is a decent and good person. I think we both made mistakes in our marriage. It is unfortunate that he wanted to stop trying to work things out but I understand why he finally gave up. It was a very frustrating marriage and we both were not able to meet each other's needs and didn't know how at the time. I wish I had found this site before my divorce instead of afterwards.

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My h was a wonderful person, fun to be with, caring, terrific father, very popular, very moral and I liked him as well as loved him. He was my best friend.

The problem is when he had difficulties in our marriage, he didn't talk to me and let it build. He said this in counselling. So now there's a wall, and I still don't know all the reasons why.


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Nellie,

Just one thing for you to consider --

You use the words "negative attitude" to describe, I think, my attitude about my ex-H.

If negative attitude is what you call facing the truth about abuse, then yes, I have it. If negative attitude is being brave enough to admit the problems of my ex, then yes, I have it.

But Nellie, did you read the posts where I told you that I loved him, that I knew there was a better man "deep down," that our marriage **could have** been saved with some work? He chose not to work at it. He chose to continue the cycle of abuse, and therefore, for my protection (physical, emotional, mental, call it what you will) I left.

I know "standers". I respect them completely. I used to wish I had the strength to wait it out, but I don't any longer. I left David because I had to. It doesn't mean I hate him.

And Nellie, sometimes the truth hurts, as you very well know. You aren't what you call positive, because there has been no positive in your story. You talk about it "never" getting better. If people have left because you said it didn't get better, or because I said, in retrospect, David wasn't really a "good guy" then that isn't our problem, is it? We are just telling our truth.


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Nyneve,
This is your quote to Nellie:

"And Nellie, sometimes the truth hurts, as you very well know. You aren't what you call positive, because there has been no positive in your story. You talk about it "never" getting better".

Nellie you seem to be an intelligent, caring person, but I almost have to side with Nyneve. I have not seen very much positive feedback from you. Life does get better, I'm living proof, but I have to work 2 jobs to have anything.

To answer the topic question, my X was a good person only if he could gain something out of it for him, only if it fit his agenda, only if everyone revolved around his schedule to make his little world perfect. That is how abusers/controlling people think "what can you do for me?"

My X was a cop and worked many side jobs to provide us with a nice home. However, I felt he was very selfish when he bought 33 acreas of land, that we could not afford, just so he would have a hunting place, then bought a hunting trailer, again that we could not afford, just so he could have a place to stay.

As far as a father, he loves my girls, but has a very hard time showing it and I know that comes from his upbringing as a child, but as an adult ---knowing that--- he can break that cycle and change it. He has missed out on a lot of the girls activities and they don't have much respect for him, but they know he still loves them.

As a policeman, he has a good side, I have seen him help people. I once saw him turn on his police lights, turn on his siren, stop traffic and pick up a kitten laying on the pavement in 100% weather on the seawall in Galveston. I have heard him tell me stories of what he did to people that ran from him, shot at him or lied to him - very disturbing and sickening, but I won't go into that.

He does have good qualities: hard worker, leadership ability, good memory, book smart and stuck on himself (sorry just had to put that in) what would you think if your X used to say, "if we ever divorced you would have sex with me every once in a while because I'm so good", I just looked at him and rolled my eyes.

Nellie, you have said some things that have made me think about my situation and to a certain extent some of that is probably true and you made me see another side I had never really thought about. Your comments have helped me to understand and heel the abuse I suffered.


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...and Nellie... to show you that I don't hate David, and although I don't think about his attributes often, I will tell you what I remember as the good things about him (before the infidelities):


  • He had a wicked sense of humor
  • He worked/works hard
  • He loved/loves children
  • He had a sense of "family" and "morality" that he adhered to...
  • He helped around the house
  • He did whatever he could to see that we had food on the table, no matter how menial
  • He took care of me when I was sick
  • He took us to church
  • He tried to be a spiritual leader of the home
  • He went without to see that his family had things first

Now, that was by no means a comprensive list... but you must see that there was much to love about my (then)H.

I loved him Nellie. I will never say I didn't, nor will discount 20 years of marriage.

Take from this what you will. Just know that I believe that inside, deep, deep inside, of my ex, lives a good man -- a tortured man who didn't know how to treat me sometimes, and really got worse and worse through the years. But that doesn't mean he didn't have moments of clarity and completely loving actions at times.

[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited August 17, 2001).]


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Nellie1 Offline OP
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Sheryl,

I was not referring to pessimism when I used the term "negative attitudes" - I was referring to poster's attitudes toward their spouses or former spouses, or the quality or value of their marriage. I was not referring just to your situation, or even primarily your situation. I know you and some others, for example Jill, put a lot of effort into trying to restore your marriages.

I am not comfortable with the term "our truth." I don't believe truth is relative - that is one reason I no longer attend the UU church, where people are encouraged to seek their "own truth." It is not that our beliefs or opinions are invalid - but they are beliefs. My experience has been that it did NOT get better, but only much, much worse. I do not believe that it will get better. That is my opinion, my belief. I think anyone would be hard pressed to come up with any evidence that I am in any way better off, but I suppose another person in my position might be of the opinion that they were better off because they now had first dibs on the bathroom every morning.

Nina,

My H also admitted that I would have had to have been able to read his mind, that he tried to hide his feelings about things. Frank Pittman says that affairs are not about the relationship between a man and his wife, but between a man and his father. I do not think my H was ever allowed to express anger as a child, especially toward his parents, and I don't think he felt that he was loved unconditionally by his father.

jabber,

I think the WS have a similar shift in perception - where they once thought the BS was a good person, after the OP comes into the picture they remember all the negative things about them, and forget the positive.

711,

I was kind of wondering if you'd post. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other regular posters who say that about their ex-spouses.

elliott,

When I said that life has not gotten better and I no longer have any expectation that it will, I was not only speaking of the financial aspects, though that is obviously critically important as well. Maybe the only way that life can get better is if you decide you don't love your spouse/ex-spouse, and I neither can nor want to do that.


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Hi Nellie,

I hope you noticed that we were posting at about the same time and I did think about, and post, some good things about David.

About "our truth"... oh yes, I hear you about the UU church... but listen... when you share "your truth" that things do not get better, it is YOUR TRUTH. It isn't MY truth, or anyone else's truth -- it's YOURS, and YOURS alone.

You don't agree with me?


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Nellie1 Offline OP
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Sheryl,

We must have been posting simultaneously. I didn't think you hated David. From everything you have said about him, he seemed like a good man, struggling with something terribly wrong - depression or whatever it was.

I guess I found it confusing that it seemed like only a few weeks ago you seemed much less negative about him. Have I just imagined this, or did something happen to precipitate a shift in your feelings about him?


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Nellie1 Offline OP
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Sheryl,

We did it again - posting at the same time .

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics - I just wouldn't call it "truth."


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Hey Nellie,

Thanks for asking, Nellie. I know you are trying to understand... although I'm not sure anyone can without having been in my head as I went through this whole thing.

[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited August 17, 2001).]


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Nellie1

My STBX was the best. I wanted my sons to grow up to be almost just like their dad. I encouraged my OS to look up to his dad, & because of that I almost destoried my OS.

Is my STBX still a good person? To most people yes, but he will always been an adulter in his sons eyes as long as he is with the OW.

Do I hate him, no. I hate what he did to our family. Do I love him, I hope not, after the last yr I be crazy to do so. He treat a dog on the st better than he did me the last yr. If he was the man he used to be, he would think he needed to be horsewhipped.

I believe you can stand for a marriage, but sometimes there comes a time to say good bye & move on to the rest of your life no matter what the WS does or doesn't do.

Hey Sheryl, sorry that things are sad for you now. Can I help? You helped me so much in the spring. lots of hugs & thoughts going your way.

Also Nellie1, I wish you could find some peace.


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I have and will always say that my ex was a good and decent person. He struggled with deeply buried family issues, alcoholism, a fragile ego, and a very confused soul. I know that he tried in his heart to do the right thing, and I see the struggle that he is going through in his own conscience right now over choices that he made. He is struggling to find peace. I can't say that I respect his choices, but I also have always had the patience to recognize and accept his shortcomings. I made plenty of mistakes in my marriage for which I will be eternally sorry. I just can't question if changing those things could have helped him, but they certainly would have changed me. I still love him dearly, though he breaks my heart everytime I talk to him. I have lost respect for him, but I will always love him and care about him, and that will never ever change.

Sometimes it is easier for BS to focus on the betrayal and the negative qualities of his/her spouse. It is easier to let go when you believe in your heart that you are better off without the person.

[This message has been edited by gsd (edited August 17, 2001).]


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At one time I felt the sun rose and set on my ex but now the only thing he inspires in me is fear and sadness. I do feel I'm better off now than I was in the midst of the situation with him lying to me, cheating on me and being rather violent and angry towards me on a regular basis. But in terms of the practical, financial, living situation and the emotional scars left, no, I'm not better off. I have new baggage that I'll be lugging around for a long time to come and there will always be part of me that feels "not good enough" because of the way he discarded our nine year relationship and never looked back.
When he was my best friend and lover he was a beautiful man, but when he turned the corner and began his affair something very special in him died in my eyes.

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Nellie,

Yes, I do still love my Ex very much. I have spent almost my whole adult life with him. Having him no longer apart of my life has been very difficult.

I can't hide the fact that he is a very, very hard person to deal with and that I am relieved most of the time that I know longer have to live with him.

I wish I had time to really write down my whole story than you would understand where I am coming from.

Jill

PS My negative attitude towards my EX has not come from anyone but me. I have spent alot of time looking back trying to find answers and I have been surprised at what I have found.

If my EX came to the door right now and said he loved me and wanted me back I would say "no". To much has happened the last 17 years. I forgave to much and was treated to badly to ever live like that again.


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I at one time thought my ex wife was a good person. We seemed to have the same morals and beliefs. Then it all changed. She became so vain and self centered. Her body became the only important thing to her. She even went as far as to say that she didnt know if she wanted kids, cause it would mess her body up.
When i confronted her about the emotional affair that she was having with the married man at the gym. And i asked her how she felt about herself taking away the husband of another woman. She said that she saw nothing wrong with it, cause her and the OM were soul mates. And he and his current wife were not meant for each other.
I have Never in the entire 6 yrs i have known her, heard her talk like that. She was seriously against that.
So now i dont consider her a good person. Actually i pity her. She wanted to say friends. and i told her i dont like friends like her, so i dont think so.

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Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.


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Hmm - you know....

Nellie, some of us lived for years with spouses who mistreated us, and who weren't "decent" people.

But we made promises and vows and had children.

When our spouses walked out, we were devastated. But then life DID get better, because we found what we had been missing all those years...ourselves. And in the absence of mistreatment, and with the focus on living our own lives, it did get better.

Nellie, you may already know, that my H and I have reconciled and we are now in recovery.

But you know what?

I grieved, really really grieved, for almost a month after making my decision to stop my divorce.

I grieved for my still-born dreams and hopes that had been slowly forming as I began to realize what a fog I had been living under in my marriage.

I found ME, and I liked her alot. I'd lost her in my marriage under years of emotional abuse - both given and received on both of our parts.

I had been moving forward with my life - angry that it had to be that way, but accepting that it was what it was. And I had a sense of profound relief that maybe one day I'd find someone else better suited to me.

But when my H came back to me again, and this time put actions unhesitatingly behind his words, I found that I had to go back to my marriage. My vows and the sacrament of matrimony meant something important to me. My children needed their Dad.

It's been several weeks since I have felt depressed over my return to my marriage. In fact, in some ways, I'm really encouraged. My H so far, has been a changed man - one that I will be content to be married to, if he stays this way. But Nellie, he was NEVER like this in our almost 11 years of marriage. Some days I find myself looking at him and asking mentally: Who are you and what did you do with H?

So, for today, I'm content with our progress and my recovering marriage.

Divorce was becoming, in my mind, the beginning of learning to live again.

Did I want to be divorced? No.

BUT, divorce would NOT have been the end of my happiness.

MISERY IS OPTIONAL.

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Pain is a given, misery is optional.


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I do think my VSTBXH is a decent person.

With the right woman, who obeys and agrees and lets him be the master of the house like he feels he should be, I'm sure there wouldn't be the fighting and abuse I went through with him. And I know there are women out there like that. Hope he finds one and is happy.

He has a lot of traditional values that are good - opening doors, helping stranded old ladies, wanting to provide 100% of the income so the wife can stay home to cook and clean and keep house. However, his failure to be that provider made him resent me for working (for NEEDING to work so we could survive) and not taking adequate care of the home and his needs like his homemaker mother did.

I'm sure he is capable of being a good husband. I am just not the wife to complete that couple.


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Yes, I believe my ex was and continues to be a good man. I think he got stuck in the "fog", and is slowly working his way out of it, although not back in my direction. We are able to communicate about our children, and even talk about some personal issues. I think some day, we might actually be friends again.

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