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Hey Sheryl,

For what ever reasons [doesn't pertain to the fact of the matter] Valerie and I are now D. I loved this woman enough to M her back in 1994. I truly wish her no harm to this day. I was simply stating facts that since she made the choice [Life is full of choices] to have an A her life has not improved, but has decreased in quality.

She calls me for help. I am not the one she should be looking at for assistance. She has Brian now. That's his job. I am out of the picture. She knows that I can pull a rabbit out of a hat and it kills me that I can not with good conscience offer a hand to help her at this point.

I feel if I help her I am back in the triangle, things that Brian should be providing. I have moved on as she has wanted.

Maybe I am a selfish pr!ck as I could do things for her but...this is the life she wanted.

I still care what happens to her. She wanted me out, so I am. I still think about it but I've moved on.

That's only me...and I fell down the cellar steps as a kid... so......

Zippy


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Haven't been around much lately. I can relate to each and every one of these posts a little in each way. Sheryl, I am sorry for what you are going through, but I certainly understand that no smiley/no sad face thing. It is like "eh." Confusing since I spent the entire summer and much of the fall last year consumed by thoughts of him, reconcilation etc.

My ex got married two weeks ago. We haven't been divorced a year yet (almost). Only mere months ago he was calling me telling me how much he hated himself etc. He still does the same. The last conversation, three weeks ago, he read me a portion of his new novel (which was just accepted for publication--go figure). The characters were obviously me and him, and our divorce and his feelings about it were reflected there. His feelings of inadquacy as a man/husband, his guilt about leaving, his admiration for me. All of it. He has often said he still writes with my face reflected in his pc. Why? Each time we talk, it is highly charged and emotional. He apologizes and tells me how much he respects me and will always love me. He wants absolution at my emotional expense. Forget it.

Funny, he also said (exact words): "Well, it's not that I am uncomfortable getting married..." :O He just wanted to wait and she pressured him. Hmmm, he used that line with me to excuse his leaving and we dated for three years prior to marriage!

I don't hate him, and like Sheryl, don't want to be friends, but also still have the "you asked for it" attitude. I shouldn't care; I am not remarried, not involved with anyone right now, but I still shouldn't care. Maybe it is all the guilt that the WS feels. Isn't it amazing how much guilt there is with all of them! Paul, your wife WILL feel it one day. Too bad she will be married when it all hits her. That will make it more difficult for her.


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Hey Zip and gsd,

Thanks for the dialogue, Zippy, and for explaining your feelings -- I share them.

And gsd, thanks for the commisseration and understanding... I'm right with ya!!

Well, we are off for the weekend (dare I tell you it's for our belated honeymoon? ) but my H is still sleeping, so I'm here, and there (making coffee, packing) and here again...

So, a quickie reply is in order...

Then again, I type really fast, 90 wpm, so maybe it will be a quickie for me to type, but a longie for you to read!

I talked to David (my ex) last night about our son. He didn't want to talk, and made that known. He is very angry with me about my involvement. It's a long story, full of history (ours - his and mine) and by the time we were finished I was in tears, he was gloating and pissed, and we had accomplished NOTHING.

I am still trying to Plan A, in that, we have to get along, dredging up the past does nobody any good, and is revisionist anyway, so I work very hard to be kind.

He is still saying things like, "You're the one who gave up" and I immediately feel like crap -- because I did give up. He had his girlfriend of the moment (actually she last two years!) and yes, I did give up. I gave up, met someone else, and got married. I gave up. There goes the guilt again.

But... my life is no longer lived to please him, and the tears I cried last night dried soon enough. I called my H, told him about the conversation, we both called my ex some choice words, I chatted with some girlfriends, and we also called David some choice words, and by the time my H got home, I was pretty much over it.

And today we leave for the honeymoon capital of the world (said in my best bullhorn voice)...

And my son is being cared for in school (which is all any of us should want, no matter who made sure he is getting the care), and he's HAPPY and feels like his back is being watched. It's a blessing, to be sure.

It's a lovely day out there...

I have much to be thankful for...

Everyone have a nice one!! I know I will!!


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The issue for me is not whether he "gets what he deserves," but rather that it feels like the kids and I are "getting what he deserves." We came home from an outing last week and there was a bill waiting in the mailbox from my lawyer - for nearly half again as much as she had estimated - and we only went to court twice.

It does feel very very wrong that the kids and I do not have enough money to live on, and my H can potentially never work another day. I'm sure his difficulty finding a job does nothing for his self-esteem, but at least he never has to worry about having a roof over his head or food in his stomach.


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Hey girl,

where's the honeymoon capital of the world for you??

Hope it was absolutely fantastic for you and hubby.

Shame about the conversation with David - why can they not ***get it***.........

love and hugs

Jo


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Hi everyone,

I haven't been on much lately, lot's of travel, and to be honest I've pretty much gotten over most of all this. The divorce papers should be filed in a couple of weeks, and from there it shouldn't take to long, unless she pulls some wild stunt.

I'm still upset with her for doing this, but I realize that it was completely about her and her choices. I still believe that one day she'll regret this decision, but that die has been cast...

I've met someone very special and we are slowly getting to know one another. I will take all that I have learned here and apply it to my new relationship and build the kind of commitment to another person that will last forever. I know now that relationships take work, and that both partners have to make that commitment to each other, forever.

I only communicate with the VSTBX about my son, and I'm hopeful that as time goes by, that requirement will diminish. I don't actually hate her, but my life would be so much better if she & her boy scout were completely absent from it.

I've hurt and I've healed and now I'm moved on.

take care...

------------------
nick

it's only time that heals the pain
and makes the sun come out again


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quote:
Originally posted by Nyneve:
I know about the vacilation too... and WHAT A PAIN. That's why David was able to move in and out three times in a year... I couldn't decide if the pain was worth it, he couldn't decide if he wanted me or church lady (church lady *won* for awhile anyhow -- they broke up -- not really sad, just thought it was the thing to do! )... back and forth we went... until we were SPINNING, baby!!

So why is it I seem to be getting the hard time?

GSD: I think her being married will make it rough, I think it already is.

------------------
1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.


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Hi Nellie,

I agree that the kids and you should get what you deserve -- however, coming fresh from an argument with David about him getting what he deserves (which in his mind is his girlfriends and to be left alone by me, including talking about our son) I have to say that I hope David gets what he deserves. BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST, my son needs what he deserves, and I wish he could get it from his father, but he can't. SOOOOO... I'm looking at how long it will take to bring him to me, and what kind of stress will it put on an already stressful situation.

I agree that it is wrong that you and the kids do not have enough money to live on, and that your H is unemployed, seeminly to never work again. There MUST be some laws about that... call me naive, but doesn't your divorce agreement account for some distribution of assets somewhere?

Hi bonnet,

Well, my dear girl, it's Niagara Falls!!! Isn't it the Honeymoon Capital of the world??? Maybe it's the Honeymoon Capital of North America, eh??? LOL

Yes, it was fantastic and sooooooo relaxing and just... blissful.

P.S. I know, about David... I am still very angry with him.

c00ker!! Hi!!

You sound like I want to sound in regard to ex... I'm still fuming about the argument the other night. I want to "not care"... but when it's about your kid, ya know?

Nice seeing you, and thanks for the uplifting post!!

Now, Mr.Paul Moyers,

quote:
So why is it I seem to be getting the hard time?

You, my dear man, are getting the hard time because Amanda is MARRIED to someone else!

That makes it a WHOLE OTHER KETTLE O' SOUP, ya know???

But, I will say, stranger things have happened than you two getting back together... you just must guard your heart, because she is doing to her new H what she was doing to you. You need to know it is SAFE to be close to her again... that's all...

Take care, Paul.


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quote:
Originally posted by Nyneve:
Now, Mr.Paul Moyers,

Sassy!???

quote:

... you just must guard your heart, because she is doing to her new H what she was doing to you.

I know and I will. I'm actually feeling better, not talking to myself near as much.

Thanks Sheryl, gotta love ya huh?

------------------
1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.


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Hi Nyneve - Well, I'm having my revenge, too, even though I have not met anyone else yet. I got the house, the pets, Spousal Support for 7 years (plus 2 temporary until D was final), the friends, etc., etc. I am enjoying my friends and my newfound freedom to live my life as I choose, free from emotional blackmail and abuse. He married OW four months after our divorce was final. We had been married for 17 years at the point when he walked out on me. The OW (I call her his next ex-wife!!!) was married twice before and is apparently emotionally unstable. They deserve each other!!!!!

He made my life miserable for a long time and I forgave him his cruelty towards me, repeatedly. I loved him unconditionally and without reservation, but none of that meant anything to him. He threw me and our marriage away like some trash he no longer had use for.

If he had been honest with me about his unhappiness, acted with some compassion towards me, and gotten help, instead of going out and having an affair and trashing our marriage, I would feel a little more charitable towards him. But his so-called happiness with OW was taken at another's expense (mine) and with no regard for the pain caused to me, my family, his family or our friends. If he would have ended our marriage cleanly, after honestly giving it a chance, it would be different.

I, too, wish no harm towards my ex or his next ex-wife. But I do not wish to see their marriage succeed either. And yes, if and when it all falls apart, I will feel that they both deserve whatever they get. Actually, I feel little more than pity for him now. He messed up, and will have to pay the price somewhere down the line. (I just hope to be around to hear about it!!!)

Marsha

P.S. Congratulations on your marriage, and my best wishes for much happiness!!!!


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Hi Marsha,

Yes, I feel as you do that the abusive cycle had to stop... you know though, it's still a bit of a roller-coaster for me, which surprises me to this day. Today, David called and apologized for his attitude the other night, when we argued. That's practically unheard of for him, and my first reaction was, "ah, shucks, Dave, I know you're sorry... " You know, the old, "everything'll be okay, I'm dancing as fast as I can" response. In reality, he very often treated me like he did the other night, and gave similiar excuses ("I was out of my head" - that was his reason this time too)...

<sigh>

Thanks for the congrats on the marriage, and I wish you a peaceful and loving rest of your life too -- whether with someone or by yourself, whichever you choose. (Because we never knew we had a choice, eh? )


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Sheryl,

Not all of us do have a choice.

In answer to your question, our assets (and debts) were divided by the separation agreement.

The real issue is that, once the non-custodial parent leaves the house, he or she only has very limited financial responsibility toward his children - usually a percentage of his income.

If he finds someone who is willing to support him, he does not need much, if any, income anymore, and consequently he can live well while his kids live in poverty. If my H had lost his job while living at home, he would have taken any job(s) if it put food on the table - I know that for a fact because he did when he was briefly unemployed. Or he could have stayed home and raised the kids while I worked. As a non-custodial parent he is not responsible for doing anything beyond paying an amount of child support that is far less than he would have been contributing while at home. Plus I am responsible for all the child care costs. I don't know how any single parent can afford to work full-time when child care for two school age children runs about $8000 a year.

I am beginning to think I don't fit in here because the vast majority of posters (with a few exceptions, like Jill), do not have to worry about financial issues.


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Nellie,

I just wanted to share something with you.

I have one child in daycare and it could be expensive. Where I live, there is a company that provides financial assistance for daycare. What you pay is based on what your income is and how many people are in your household. And their guidelines are much different than the guidelines for public assistance. Do you have any services like that in your area? Just an idea!

Mitzi


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quote:
Originally posted by Nellie1:
Not all of us do have a choice.

Here's the deal, Nellie. Most of what I write (and it seems, as you have noticed, many others) does not fit into your situation.

You didn't ask for the divorce, you didn't want it, you will fight it till your death. To you, you will always be married to your H despite the piece of paper, and you will be waiting for your H, hoping (and I won't say praying, since you're an atheist )that he comes out of his depression and realizes the reality and magnitude of what he's done -- ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE YOUR RIGHT.

So, you can pretty much take whatever I write and throw it in the toilet...

EXCEPT -- hear this:

You do have choices in your life. No, you didn't ask for this, but you DO have a CHOICE how to react to it.

You are so highly intelligent (completely sincere) that I know for a fact that you realize this.

I am sorry for you continued pain. I DO know what it's like to be poor. While David was cattin' around in the 80's, I was digging change out of the couch to buy milk. I was walking to the store because I had no car. Buying all our clothes at the Thrift Shop. I KNOW -- and it SUCKS.

Hi Mitzi, and good ideas!!


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Hey Sheryl!!

Ya know, I've been extremely poor too! (I'm not rich now either! LOL). I had an H that refused to work. I, too, have scraped up change to buy milk, diapers, etc. I lived in a house with no heat cause we couldn't afford to get the furnace fixed (and we had an infant!), the house also had broken windows! I've had all of my utilities turned off at least once!

And ya know what? I don't make that much money now, and I'm doing so much better! I don't have to support anyone's alcohol and drug habit! I can buy my kids' shoes and coats and not have to ask my parents to do it!

Nellie, I hope that one day, you will look back on your life and see what you've accomplished. It may not be exactly what you want but it's yours!

Mitzi


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Mitzi and Sheryl,

I didn't mean to imply that there was no one else who knew what it was like to be poor, but there do seem to be a number of people who don't have a clue what it is like - just as I, thank goodness, don't know what it is like to be starving.

There is a program that subsidizes daycare for preschoolers, but not after-school or summer care for school-aged kids.

Sometimes I just feel it is hopeless, especially when I run the numbers and discover that if I earned an extra 20K, I would still come out only 3 or 4K ahead of where I am now.

We were never anywhere near rich, but what we had went almost entirely to support the children. My H did not drink, do drugs, gamble or even shop for clothes anywhere much more expensive than Walmart - and neither did I. In many ways I think it would be a lot easier if my H had not been a good, conscientious man.


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Hi Mitzi Yep, we **know** toooooo much, don't we?

See, Nellie, I know you probably hate when people say things like, "If you get lemons, make lemonaide" but it's true. I will tell you something about myself that you may not realize (or care about, but bear with me)... I don't know how to be truly happy. I was chatting with an MB friend tonight, and she was telling me how to say no, how to stop caring soooo damn much, how to find some peace... and it suddenly occured to me -- I DON'T KNOW HOW.

Nellie, I can hear the whistfulness (is that a word?) the almost dreamy quality that your life WAS, before the day your H went away... the chores, the not too rich but happy family that once was. I HEAR YOU.

I know you want your life back. God, I said that so many times in 1998, and 1999... and heck, part of 2000 too. There's a song by Neil Sedaka that I've quoted to friends quite a bit lately, and the words of one verse get me every time I hear it (which is why I don't listen to it - LOL):

I miss the Hungry Years
The once upon a time
The lovely long ago
We didn't have a dime
Those days of me and you
I miss the hungry years

David and I used to listen to that song and hang on for dear life, because all we had was each other. Bottom line, aside from his antics, we loved each other and always believed it would get us through.

Is that what you believed too?

I didn't think you were implying anything by what you said, I was merely agreeing that it sucks to be poor. I've been there, and could tell STORIES.... believe you me.


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Sheryl,

I don't think our life was idyllic or dreamy - just normal. After we wallpapered a bunch of rooms together, we used to joke that if our marriage could survive that, it could survive anything. I did think the fact that we loved each other and shared many common goals was sufficient. I had no idea how much devastation depression could cause.


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No, we did not have a choice! But I DO have a choice now - and I intend to make the most of it. I still miss the man my ex-H used to be - kind, caring, gentle - all the things that I fell in love with about him. He is no longer that person, and nothing I do will change it. It is impossible to go back - I can only go forward. Yes, my household income is less than half of what it was while I was married. But I re-financed the house, and have made a concerted effort to cut expenses. This is easier for me than most, because I do not have children. I also do not have a spouse that spends large amounts of money (without my OK or knowledge) on things (some rather expensive) on himself any more. I don't know how those of you with children (especially in daycare) do it. My hat is off to you, and my heart goes out to you, especially Nellie.

I am healthier and happier now than I have been in a long time. Life is still a struggle, but I have so much to be thankful for.

But there are times when I still long for things to be as there were before my H turned into the Selfish Jerk. Giving up the dream of a lifelong marriage with the person I loved most in the world is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. I still resent sometimes that I had no say in the matter, that I had my marriage and husband ripped away.
But, I still have my dignity, my integrity and my honesty intact. I know I did nothing wrong, except stay with a man who no longer loved me, hoping against hope that things would improve. I have everything I need, and nothing I need to be ashamed of. Too bad Ex-H cannot say the same!


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Hi, Nellie,

quote:
I don't think our life was idyllic or dreamy - just normal.

It sounds pretty dreamy to someone who once believed we (as in David and I) would buy a farm somewhere and live out the rest of our lives among horses and fields and stuff...

David always had a "Waltons" mentality, in a way. He loved ""Family"" and what it represented. There was just this ugly perverted side of him that could never be reconciled, I think.

quote:
After we wallpapered a bunch of rooms together, we used to joke that if our marriage could survive that, it could survive anything.

Ah, these were your "Hungry Years"... I knew you must have had some... those days that made you think, "as long as we're together, everything will be okay"... yes, I remember...

Hi again, Lady Marsha,

quote:
I DO have a choice now

That was my point, exactly.

I once took a Psych class which used a book called, "I never knew I had a choice".

EVERYTHING in life... you have a choice... a choice HOW TO RESPOND TO IT... maybe not a choice about its happening... but what you will do with what has happened.

My point, exactly.


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