HoplessinAZ , RWD, waiting_for_her, lifeismessy and Nina too, Thank you for the honest and thoughtful feedback on article I posted Where to now, I really appreciate it, it is nice to know that there are people out there that care .<BR>RWD: Just to let you know that in My country the W will always get custody of the kids. The only way that a man can get custody is if the W is a substance abuser or physically abuses the kids. Other than that a M never gets custody.<P>To add to my FRUSTRATIONS<P>My wife phoned me and started to shout at me ,saying if I try and phone her work or try and turn the kids against her, as my oldest son will not speak with her, she would put an straining order against me.I don’t understand this , cant she see that my son is hurting because of what he saw.<P>This weekend Saturday afternoon I tried to phone my kids, My W picked up the phone and told me that the kids had gone to the shops and she would get them to phone me back. Sunday afternoon I had still not heard from my kids , eventually I phoned my Brother-in-law who lives 100 metres from were my kids stay .My eldest son had slept over at his house and has been spending most of his time there over the past week. Also my W and the other two kids did not sleep at home , I WONDER WHERE THEY SLEPT ::::::. It seems to me that my wife does not even care about my eldest son as he is against what she is doing. I have stated to my attorneys that there must be a clause in the Divorce agreement that states that my Children must go for Child counselling as I cannot and will not see my children been torn apart from my W BEHAVIOR. <P>The only thing I feel that will help me at this moment in time is if I turn my back on my W and start a new life for my Kids and myself even if I just see them every alternative weekend. I just feel that its not fair that through her decision I will miss out so many days with my children. She has lost a husband , I have lost my life.<P><BR>

First of all, you have not lost your life. It has been seriously <B>redefined</B> against your wishes, but it is <B>still there, still yours</B>.<P>Quit being surprised by her behavior, this is not the woman you married, how obvious is that? Sorry, I had the same thing happen to me...its a b!tc#, no doubt.<P>People seek the counsel, and company of those that agree with them, or have no apparent opinion one way, or the other. No small wonder that she accepts the distance that your oldest son is seeking, she is hurt by his lack of support, too. Watch yourself in your speech to him. Do not use him to vent your opinions of her to, she is, after all his Mother, and your Wife. Tell that stuff to the wall, or here...and do not utter it to another living soul.<P>You will never have to 'turn your back' on her, just let her go. That's actually easier than turning your back. You may think that by doing that, you will lessen your pain, but face it...you have to go through this dark place, and you have to grieve. There is no automatic answer, time is your ally here, not your enemy. Pass through with your eyes, and heart wide open, and you will arrive on the other side a very rich man. Keep your dignity, and integrity, and you will be blessed in ways which neither of us can imagine now.<P>Also, quit wondering what she is doing...most likely you will never like the answer, so be a mushroom, and wonder what you should be doing instead...what is your goal in this? -Mike

Hi NWTCO, <P>I agree with Mike, there is a big difference between letting go and turning your back.<P>I have very recently let go...not of my love for my H, but I have learned that there is nothing I can do to MAKE him come home to me, I can't MAKE him see the kids, I can't MAKE him stop seeing his OW, I can't MAKE him get out of the fog. Letting go means you stop trying to MAKE them do what you want. It's therefore the hardest thing you will ever have to do, because you are denying the needs of your own self.<P>It's a huge struggle for me, as I'm finding out more lies, more lack of concern for his family and being treated like a stranger. There are many nights I just sit and cry, other nights, I want to call him and tell him what a low-down dirt-bag he is, and call the OW and do the same.<P>The unhappy reality is that we BS's have no power in what once was our relationship. What is going on now is so alien to us, and we have to learn how to manage it, and come out a winner in the end WHETHER OR NOT YOUR SPOUSE IS WITH YOU.<P>I haven't been here that long either, but I am learning many things that I am sure are helping. And it's always good to have a shoulder to cry on. <P>As I said in your other thread, read all you can here, and when it gets too hard...come here for a cyber hug!<P>Nina.

Mike,<BR>In all my conversations with my children I have never ever once said anything bad about my wife (only good). Also I have never tried to extract things from my kids, What she doing, who with. <P>The first three weeks after the bomb was dropped was so devastating I even contemplated suicide, which I know, was selfish. The only thing that stopped me was my lovely sons. I then got professional help and was put on medication, which helped. Since then, I have been reading all the reading material I could get my hands on. <P>I am trying so hard to let go, I Have stopped communication with my W and Im trying to look after my self.<BR>Also just to get my body physically exhausted IM training out in the Gym for about 3 hours a day, its the only way I find that I can get about 4 hours sleep a night.<BR>I just can’t understand why she is making it so difficult for me to contact my children.<BR>

You know, I am sorry for that. In attempting to be more direct, and less wordy, I have miscommunicated...my bad. I never meant to imply that you had done any of those things, just to avoid them. Personally, I wish I could say the same thing...I've said a few things that were not appropriate, and its not as helpful to have your children agree with your assessment, either!<P>It never did me any good to try to put reason to her actions when my XW did those things...the most consistent answer I got was because I flopped like a fish every time. I quit doing that, and that helps me a great deal.<P>You do need more sleep, I guess that you knew that already. Have you tried typical things? If you are working out, then physical readiness shouldn't be a problem. Of course ruminating about your situation being the dominant things you do, it seems likely that you are simply to agitated to rest. The phrase 'let it go' is one that you might try chanting softly to yourself as you lay down. Take an inordinate interest in your breathing: rhythmically, deeply, completely. You know the drill, right? You have to do a lot <B>on purpose</B> now, because much of your <B>purpose</B> seems lost to you. -Mike

NWTCO,<P>You are without a doubt going through the worst right now. I remember many nights getting only 3-4 hours sleep. I continued to go to the gym to release. It helps. But only time will allow you to regain any measure of peace.<P>Your wife is making it hard for you to contact the children because she can. She wants them on her side.....but what she doesn't realize or care about due to her fogged condition is that she is only hurting the kids. Your kids are being used as pawns in this game your W is choosing to play. Like I said before be the better person and your kids will come around. Are they old enough to have their own cell phones or pagers? Then you could contact them directly and if you give them these devices and your W takes them away she will lose big points with them. It would also reinforce to them that you care and want to be in touch. If they are too young for this maybe discussing with them a good time to call each day. Make every effort to call at that time. If W says kids are out then ask them about this, what did they do, did they have a good time etc. Then say I called at our time but you guys were out could we think of a better time? I don't know how good these suggestions are I'm just thinking on the fly. I'm sure there are repercussions to be considered.<P>There are just no easy answers to any of this. It plain old just sucks big time! <P>Take Care.

HopelessinAZ,<P>I pay for two cell phones, one for the maid and one that I can contact them on.I have a schedulle when I phone my children 14:00 when the kids get home and 17:30 in the afternoon.The problem is that I think my wife has told my maid that she should turn the phones off at these time intervals. So now I phone untill I get a reply.<P>I also agree with you that My children will see the truth in all of this.<P><BR>Cheers for Now