I am STILL getting calls from people who "mean well"<BR>Mainly these people are innocent people caught up in my STBX manipulative ways. <BR>He tends to get the whole world involved. People tell me how he "breaks down and crys"<P>We have been separated since 6/1. I have not waivered in my decision. <P>Somehow each phone call I get I manage to affirm over and over again - nothing will make me change my mind <BR>I really want to do the right thing and I think I have made the right decision from my expereince. <P>I really don't want to keep posting my situation over and over again. <P>I am caught in a cat/mouse game. My STBX wants what he can't have. <BR>When he has me, he doesn't want me. <BR>When he has OW he doesn't want her/them. <BR>numerous affairs on his part... we've been in this pattern for 11 years. <P>He won't let go of me. Its just so hard. I don't think a piece of paper saying we are divorced will bring either<BR>one of us closure. I just want him to leave me alone! He is dragging out the divorce but it could be final any day now.<P>My kids and I seem to be fine on the most part.<P>sorry this is so choppy but I really don't want to deal with all this. I feel like I am repeating myself... repeating my posts... it is a pattern, cycle, I have lost friendships over this. Why am I being made out to be the bad guy? Why does he have so much support. He says he wants to work on the marriage but his actions say something different. I don't want to work on the marriage. o.k.?!

Then why are you at Marriage Builders?

(((((((NOT HEARD)))))))<P>I truly hope and pray that the kids are doing well, afterall they have nothing to do with what's between your husband and you.<P>As to him, you provide consistancy, comfort, and reliability so why would he want to give that up??? He's obviously torn and confused about the whole situation. You've taken the he made his bed and now he needs to lie in it approach and I totally respect that. And dear, honestly, any friends who know the story that you've lost over this deal were probably not real friends to begin with.<P>Hang in there and take care of those kids.<P>Some here are very anti-divorce (I'm not throwing rocks at anyone here) but please keep posting. If you'd like you can e-mail me 8-5 cst bill@salinaplaningmill.com <P>Hugs, Thoughts, and Prayers<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Nellie1<BR>I am here because the Forum is called Divorcing/Divorced and it is a Christian site. Divorce is a difficult thing. Please, if you could recommend another site for Divorcing/Divorced Christians I would greatly appreciate it. I don't want to bring anyone here down. My apologies.<P>LostHusband,<BR>I consider myself very anti-divorce too which is why I have stuck it out 11 years. Which is why I have always taken him back after every affair. Which is probably why it is so hard for him to accept. Anyway... I really appreciate your post. I mostly appreciated the fact that you acknowledged it is my life and my decision. I may email you sometime. <BR>

I totally respect your decision. Anti divorce is only good up to a point. If you have any advise on how to know when you have reached that point and how you manage to stay firm when he is pushing so hard to try againI'd love for you to share.

1) Lots of Prayer<P>2) I would say if you have to ask "how to know when you have reached that point" of enough is enough then you are not ready. <P>3) when the idea of being alone until death is more comforting than staying in the marriage. I do not believe the "grass is always greener". I do not think the attitude should be "I can do better with someone else". I am not against another relationship but not now, not for a long time, and maybe not ever. <P>4) when someone can suggest a course of action to take that you haven't already tried. Insanity is doing the same the over and over again and expecting a different result.<P>5) you can not trust your feelings totally. But God has given you those feelings as warning signs something is wrong. For me there is NOTHING in me that wants my marriage. I pray "Lord, if it is your will, change my heart, give me a desire to make my marriage work". I know He is able. When I starting to believe that I might have a drinking problem, there was NOTHING in me that wanted to quit. So I prayed "Lord, if it is your will, change my heart, give me a desire to want to quit drinking" and He did. I have been clean and sober for 5 years. <P>6) Lots of time. I was in this for 11 years - once separated for 2 years with a period of 6 months where there was NO communication. but for some lots of time might be 25 years or 8 years. I've planned A'd and planned B'd on at least three occasions.<P>7) make sure you are working on you and not just wanting this to change in him. For me, I had to accept my responsibility in this. I am not a victim because "poor me" my husband has been unfaithful a gazillion times. I allowed him to do this - I had the choice to walk away each time. I chose to stick with it because I had to know when I look back that I have tried EVERYTHING.<P>8) it is your decision. I am losing friendships over this. It is just amazing how forgiveness and unconditional love are misused to mean "crap on me". I love my STBX unconditionally, and I forgive him but I want to limit the effects that evil has in my household. God is with me and my decision - that is what gives me the strength to stay firm. I am open to God if I am totally wrong to change my heart. <P>I've got scripture that backs up what I am doing. I don't want to get into a big debate with people. But if you like I will make a list of scripture without my opinion and you can seek His Word and decide for yourself.<P>Keep in mind...I am anti-divorce...I am not pro-divorce... but I do believe there are instances when it is necessary. I do not think people should try and tell you what God is telling you. Only you know what God is telling you. I feel like some people think they have some special access to God that you don't have. That is not true. If you seek Him with all your heart - you will find Him. He can speak directly to you and you can hear Him.

Notheard,<BR>I sympathize with you in this situation. You see, my wife is right where you are. So you are going to kind of get the otherside so to speak. My wife put up with my "stuff" and I put up with hers. There was never and resolution. I was thought to have been bi-polar plus childhood molestation. I was very self-destructive. Since my wife left in June, I have dealt with that childhood pain, but one, finally telling my folks after 20 years, forgiving that individual, and turning that pain over to the Lord. I have been sober and off of anti-d's for 3 months. I am at peace with my past and am doing better than I ever have in the last 15 years. My wife never knew about any of it. She just thought that I was a boozer. We both were. She became tired of it and moved out. We separated two years ago and moved back together after only three months and no counseling - huge mistake. Only the symptons were dealt with not the underlying problems....Does your husband have past hurts that might be spurring his behavior? I guess what I am trying to say is that I understand your point and why you may have given up, just as I understand my wife's reason. She has no trust in me and I DO understand it. As for divorcing, I too believe in the Bible and Gods word is clear. If what God is telling you contradicts the scriptures then God aint telling it to ya. That is my rule of thumb. As an example my wife told me God told her to divorce me. Hummmmmmmmmm. Let me see, the bible says God HATES divorce, Jesus said only in cases of adultery (and adulterous lifestyle, sounds like your husband btw). Otherwise, if both are Christians and one leaves (divorces) the marriage, then that spouse is to remain unmarried OR be reconciled. I admire your courage and the fact that you are considering sticking it out single, possibly. That is what I am struggling with. What should I do, should my wife civilly divorce me (wont be divorce in Gods eyes). That is going to be hard, but then again who ever said it was supposed to be. I will be praying for you AND your husband. But, an adulterous lifestyle IS grounds for divorce. The key word is lifestyle. I didnt cheat on my wife. Could have but just couldnt do it. <P>

The chapter you are referring to where the Bible says God HATES divorce is in Malachi 2<BR>If you read the verses before the statement God HATES divorce you will see that God is instructing husbands to be faithful to their wives and not deal treacherously<BR>for God hates divorce. So your right when you say an adulterous lifestyle which my husband does have. But keep in mind God does not hate divorced people. <P>I admire your openess to share and go deeper in who you are. I know God can speak to us through circumstances also. I am keeping my mind open for God to change my<BR>heart. If my husband sought counseling for himself and could go deeper with me I know that would be one huge sign for me to stop the divorce proceeding. If he would come to me and volunteer information about himself - I would be open to listen and forgive. But see, he doesn't volunteer any information. I have to PROVE his lies THEN he confesses and is sorry. He wants marriage counseling. And us to attend church studies together. We have done that for years. The problem is his underlying issues. He will tell you he had a happy childhood but when you look at it he had 4 different guardians in 4 different homes in his upbringing. I am not saying I am perfect. I have been through years of counseling. I acknowledge my faults. It seems as though he is afraid of going deeper with himself. I pray for him. But it is not my responsibility to (nor am I able to) fix him or save him. That is something he will have to work out himself with God. <P>Meanwhile, he is hanging out with his highschool drinking buddies and he is seeking out my female friends for compassion. Which he is getting and I am losing them along the way. But see here are more symptoms, more signs, that I am doing the right thing.

Notheard, I do agree with you. I am at a point where I think that my wife has feelings for me, she has said so, and so has her father. He says she just doesnt know that you will STAY changed. I understand that after the last separation. However, she knew I was crying out for help. I emailed her on the days I couldnt get out of bed because of depression/hangover. I started to see a shrink regularily and was making progress. As a matter of fact, I came home on Friday June 8th and broke down and told her what was wrong with me, the secret. She yelled at me and said "Why didnt you tell me! I am so sorry!" She started to cry a flood. I love her so much, but I believe I have worn her out. She opened a little to me last Tuesday, but has been cold as ice. I even emailed her a happy birthday wish, she did not respond at all. Could she be withdrawling again? It hurts, but I believe God is at work. She has been irregular in her church attendance. I beleive she is afraid that God will tell her to do something she nor her father wants her to do. He said she must move out of his home if she has any idea that she wants to work things out with me. I am trying to leave her alone, because she doesnt need anymore pressure. Dont mean to unload on you, but I understand both you and my wife and I am sorry for being a louse for the things I have done. I just hope she can see past the hurt. She wont get any individual counseling. She just takes her paxil and her occasional drinks and goes on miserably. I have been doing better and I think that she is angry that I do well when she leaves. I understand the confusion. As some one in similar shoes, is there any advice you could give me to try and break the wall down. I am planning a'ing when I can, but she seems set on leaving me. I will make it, but my kids really lose dont they. Praying for your family.<BR>Rob

I can really relate. I know for me for a long time, I was not open to God. I felt like God had let me down. I have a strong walk with the Lord but I was afraid to pray because I didnt' want to hear "reconciliation". I had to fight the battle of the mind and continually remind myself that God was FOR me and not against me. That He has my best interest at heart. That with Him I have nothing to fear. That is when I opened up and starting praying "Lord, if it is your will, change my heart" His word says for us to guard our hearts. I will just take all the time I need. I am in no hurry either way. I don't feel like my life is in limbo - because I am working on me and living. I am finding happiness with or without him... o.k. I'm getting off topic here. <P>I can relate too to your wife. It is easier to leave someone when their a jerk. Really, for me the nicer my husband is the madder I get, I wish he was a total jerk. It would be so easy then.<P>I think you are doing great! You have no control over her but you are changing you. The fact that you shared that "secret" with her must have been more intimate emotionally and conversationally than yall have ever been before. I will pray for yall. Space, time and consitancy is good right now. Pray for her. Pray for you and the kids. Oh, and pray for her father. Don't let bitterness, resentment or blame take root in your heart. I wish I had some magic formula for you to work it out...<P>I know the power of God but He has also given people free will to make their own choices (and the consequences that comes with those choices). You know how the Bible says God is a jealous God. Sometimes I think people treat their spouses and their marriage as an idol and put a higher value on their spouse or marriage than on God. Your wife may not chose you. Hold on loosely. There is a scripture that says Seek first the Kingdom of God and all His righteousness, then these things shall be added unto you. I think, especially when your wife is where she is, if you seek God first and not seek your wife. Then God will bring about restoration. Not by your power or might but by His spirit. The Bible also says in order to gain your life you must lose it. Your there, your losing your life... you will gain...

Amen, Amen, Amen. You know, that is exactly how I have perceived things and I believe that God is revealing this through his DISCIPLINE. I love Christ with all of my heart. I thought that I could never live without my wife, but I honestly, must say that I could. I dont want to, but if it will impact my relationship with God, then she must go. Each day, I sense the Lord is telling me to wait, and count on Him. It is hard, but the narrow way is. That is why so few who find it. I miss my wife and am afraid she is stumbling along. I pray for HER daily. This is no longer about me, but God, my wife and my children. I was caught up in my past and my pain for too many years. Each day I am more and more content to allow GOD to mend us as individuals. I dont believe God directly heals marriages. I believe he heals individuals first and THEN the marriage. We are more important. I will not leave her. She putup and waited for me for nine years, the least I could do is the same for her. Thank you notheard...It is nice to talk with Gods people and I will remember you specificially in my prayers from here on. Thank you for sharing? How are you holding up? I feel so worn out.<BR>Rob

I have on my calendar to call the attorney today. <BR>I talked to him last week and he said to call today because <BR>it has been the amount of time for (husband) to<BR>respond to the divorce papers and he hasn't so basically I can get the divorce if I chose but the attorney said I would have to act quickly because if he responds after the date... but before it is final...that could prolong it. <P>I am really holding up fine but mostly because of our conversations today I have been thinking why not be separated and let time tell. I am not naive, I am<BR>not taking him back today but... .... I chose not to call the attorney today - thats all I can do right now.<P>I am still attending the Divorce Recovery at church.<P>I don't plan on telling him about my plans to put a hold on it. Once the attorney said it could be spring of next year before it is final depending on (husbands) actions.<P>I am not an expert. I do not have all the answers. No one does. Only God knows how it will turn out. But for today... I will wait.<P>Thanks for your help today RobC!

This is not a "Christian" site. People of any (or no) religion are welcome here. It is, however, a pro-marriage site. <P>