Hi RMA! I hope things are going well. I'm doing OK. As I predicted, my W file a petition against me. She said that was the only way she was going to get this divorce finalized. As you know, I have done everything in my power to reconcile. On the positive side, I don't know what else I can do.Things that I was holding back on legally, I guess I will have to follow through on since I am now defending myself.<p>I don't know what else to say.<p>Thanks.

Petvet,

Sorry that she has filed. But, as you know from reading other posts here, that may or may not mean a thing. Yes, you do need to get your own legal affairs in order, so do meet with your attorney. The most important thing is to protect your son's interests. <p>You are in my thoughts and prayers, Desiree

Thank you RMA. Please read this in your spare time. I do not want you losing your job over this.<p>I'm going to schedule another appointment with Steve, but I do not know if there is anything I can do at this point. I know you have said twice that her filing may or not mean anything. Granted I am going to read more through posts, but I do not understand what you mean by that. My W appears to be really serious. She wants out of this as soon as possible. At this point, I do not know how I can implement Plan A under the circumstances. Yes, my son is the #1 priority. Believe it or not, things are going well for me outside of the marriage. My son has had a good week at school so far but of course he misses his mom.<p>Thanks for sharing yourself(time and prayers). May God bless you.

Petvetr,<p>No, I will not jeopardize my job, which is why I am limited as to time on-line. <p>What I mean, and you will find out by reading others' posts is this: sometimes a person files and then changes their mind. After all - didn't you do this? Look, for some WS - not all - the idea of freedome is most important. Once you step back and leave the path open to her freedom, she may find she no longer craves it as much. <p>Petvet, your W may pursue this divorce to the end. You defintely need to act as if that is the case, in terms of your legal and financial rights and the custody of your son. But, you don't have to be the "driver". <p>No matter how things end up, your W will have to look at this current period and see that she is driving this entire situation to whatever conclusion it ends up with. You have not mentioned in awhile - is her A still active? Is she planning on asking for custody of your son? I am suspecting the affair is still active, as it is the best explanation about why a WS wants "freedom" in these scenarios. <p>Again, you are doing a super job at being a good H to your W. Yes, I agree - call Steve. He is surely no miracle worker, but he can help you to see and do the right things to put you in the best position for recovery possible. That, my friend, is ALL you can do.<p>I am so very happy that you are doing well in other aspects of your life. And that your son is adjusting better. I guess this is obvious, but are you really a vet?<p>Take care, friend. We are all here for you. Yes, and please do call Steve.
Later, Desiree

No RMA, I am not a vet;however, I do exhibit in dogs shows (Westminister as an example).It's not my living but a hobby.In response to whether my W is still involve in an A, I personally think there is still some contact of some sort. I think the other person is waiting on the sidelines because my W is in a big hurry to in this marriage.In her interrogatory response to my attorney, she says that her relationship is no more than just a co-worker friendship. She says that she has not had any contact with him since 2001, and that she does not know his home address nor phone number. I know for a fact that she knows phone numbers and address, so that the reason why I know that something must still be there because she is still trying to hide him. She has stated that she wants joint legal custody. Check this out, she states that the reason why this marriage is irretrievably broken is that we have grown apart. I like how she used the word "we" instead of "I". <p>Before I dropped my legal action, I could slow my attorney down, now, I have to go full speed ahead to protect me and my son. You are right my W has driven this and she will have to endure the consequences that can last thirteen to seventeen years. <p>I'm dealing with it.Son is having trouble sleeping at night. I am going to have him see a counselor next week. He is doing his best.

I've stumbled across MB in the past, and now I'm back here again, and have found this thread extremely helpful in my own plight.<p>I've been married for almost 5 years(11-22-97), married when my wife was pregnant, had another child in 1999, and since have been through many struggles with my younger wife(she's now 23). From her wanting a paternity test for our oldest daughter, to her having a one-night stand then wanting a divorce(about 1 1/2 ago), separating for a bit, to currently telling me she does not love me, doesn't show any emotions toward me, and leaving me. She left 3 weeks ago from tomorrow(Sunday). Our daughters(4 and 2) are staying with me nightly since she has not worked in 2-3 years and is staying with a friend down the street. She has been completely nasty to me, and will not even look me in the face, nor even say 'I want a divorce'. She will only say that she's not happy, and wants nothing to do with me. She is being so selfish now to the point that she wants our girls to stay with her, solely because she wants them too, not taking into consideration that they have no beds to sleep in. Currently, they are with me nightly, sleep in their own beds/rooms, then my W watches them during the day while I am at work(she also watches her friends son during this time), then I pick them up after work, and we go home.
In the past three weeks, I have seen and heard quite some bad things, from going to drop the girls off in the morning, knocking, got no answer, then walking in(the guy that owns the house is my friend for years, as well as the girl my W is staying with that rents i've known for 15 years, before my wife met her), and seeing my friend(guy that owns the house), and her waking from the same bed. I think that is just atrocious, especially as I had both our daughters standing in front of me.
I have also seen chat logs of her chatting from the few days before she left with the guy that lives in the basement of the house shes in now, with numerous things said that I couldn't even read all of.
Needless to say, I am in a position not unlike petvet, and am also dealing with the selfishness and pure hurt as a result. One the hardest things for me is trying to understand how she can not care.<p>We have been through a lot together, but throughout it all, we have both always told each other how much we loved each other and how much we would try before even coming close to discussing a divorce. We have tried many things, but it seems we have gotten comfortable too fast and reverted back to the 'old way'. I am just flabberghasted at how she can walk away. I love and care for her so much and it hurts for her to say dead to my face that 'our marriage was a joke', and 'i don't love you'.<p>[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: furrymitn ]</p>

Furrymitn, I know how you feel. I was told the same thing that the marriage was a mistake, etc. When these like this occur, your W is very self centered. I'm like you; I cannot understand how someone could put someone else ahead of their spouse and children. Have you read any of the Harley's books? If not, I would recommend reading "Surviving An Affair" and "His and Her Needs". The hurt that a BS experiences is tremendous. I would be concerned whether their is anything going on with your wife and other people while your children are there during the day.<p>Stay strong and pray for God's intervention into your marriage. May God be with you.

furrymitn,<p>Glad that this post is helping you. Of course, I am really sorry that we have to have anybody else join this site. At least you have a place to come and get the support you will need to gfo through this most difficult to times. <p>I do NOT like the idea of your kids seeing your W get out of bed with another guy. Please do approach her and perhaps say something like: Please make sure that you are out of bed by the time the kids get here. I think this might be confusing for them to see. <p>The point would be to get your request across in a non-judgemental way, and this would hopefully get her to comply. Perhaps she just hasn't thought about what the kids might think. Well, at least I will give her the benefit of the doubt and hope that she just hasn't thought about it. Please ask her to join you in counselling. I think if you can get the WS involved in counselling as early as possible, it is very, very helpful. Please do ask her.<p>As for what she wants in terms of the kids - YOU do the right thing for your kids, and all will come out as best is possible in these types of situations. Try to keep them upmost in your mind. I have found that trying to do the right thing is something you never regret, even if things don't work out like you had hoped or planned. Keep your chin up, furrymitn.<p>Petvet,
What kind of dogs do you show? Do you raise and show them or show only?<p>I really liked your reply to furrymitn. You are already showing strength and growth. It takes from your own inner reserves to be able to reach out and help another in need. You have definitely grown in spirit and in strength.<p>Yes, I imagine now there will be no holding back on the part of the attorney. It is amazing how your W lied about the OM's address and telephone number. Oh well, I wonder if she fools herself with the lies she's told? No matter. Keep focused on how to best handle your son and protect him and yourself finacially. A counseling session will likely do him good, poor little guy. I know this is hard on you both, but at least you know that you are there each day and can be the stabilizing force in your son's life each and every day. The bond between you is strengthening ever more, Petvet.<p>Wishing you both a peaceful Sunday. Desiree

Forgive me for butting in, but I couldn't help but notice how after you started your plan B, your W started acting nicely towards you. But now, she's back to her belligerent self prior to leaving your home.<p>I suspect that OM is back in her life and she's once again deep in 'the fog'.<p>Since she has filed for divorce, you should consider going for full custody of your son. I say this because your W is very immature and her erratic behavior and selfishness does not inspire confidence that she will put your son's interests first.<p>My xW was(she may be still) a compulsive liar and sexual addict that cared nothing about leaving me and our daughters for the weekends to have her flings with other men. I pleaded with her to think of what her behavior was doing not only to me but to our daughters, and she just sadistically laughed in my face. I could handle the fact that she cheated on me but to care nothing about what she was doing to our daughters wellbeign?, no sir that to me was the last straw. I contacted an attorney thru a fathers rights organization that had a great track record in obtaining full child custody for BH's like me. She contacted my city's social services department and filed a complaint of neglect against my wife. A case worker was assigned to my case and after investigating our situation, filed a report to the court that my then W, was not fulfilling her parental obligations. The report was used by my attorney to illustrate what an unfit parent my then W was. Thank God the judge read the report because she agreed that the best interests of our daughters lay with me. My xW was shocked to say the least, she did not beleive that her behavior had been documented by the social services department and filed. She thought that she was going to take me to the cleaners and in turn it was she that got taken (although that was never my intention).<p>Call me cynical but I beleive that MB principles work best if the marriage has not been subject to an A. After an A, they seem to have mixed results. But one thing I do beleive is that as long as you do not have any expectations from your WW, and you keep in mind that plan A is more for your benefit in a future relationship, then you can become a stronger person from the present hellish situation.<p>Best of luck and God bless you and your son.<p>Joe

Joe,<p>Thanks for adding your two cents - you certainly are welcome to comment. I definitely agree with you. Ultimatley, it takes TWO to make a successful relationship - whether it is a new relationship or rebuilding a marriage after an affair. One can change the dynamics to bring the impetus to change to the other person, but both have to desire to make the relationship a "go."<p>You were smart about the tack you took concerning the legal advice and then ending up with custody. Yes, your ex certainly wasn't thinking clearly in that she didn't even realize child protection would document her errant and neglectful behavior.
Petvet and furrymitn both need to be aware of how your circumstances were handled, since they both have young kids involved. Thanks for chiming in with good, solid advice.<p>Take care, Desiree

Sorry this post is so jumpy(subject to subject), but that's where my mind is currently, I don't really have a clear mind when it comes to her.<p>Following this thread, especially being able to see the "story" as it goes, and has come to for petvet. My head is in a better place somewhat now. and petvet know that you are not alone. I too have been through the thoughts of self-hurt and disappearing, but have the smiling faces of my daughters to give me all the reasons i need to continue no matter the outcome.<p>My struggles with my W are on a day to day basis, yesterday she and I had a very decent talk on the phone, I basically laid out all my feelings, and what I thought about the possible divorce(noone has filed yet). Basically that I love and care for her, and don't see any reasons that we can't reconcile and mend our relationship. That I understand the things that she was unhappy with, and those things also were on my mind, and they can be changed - it really boils down to communication. But she says she feels like she's doing the right thing, and she may regret it later, but will continue to do what she needs to do to be able to get a car, apartment, job. In our 4+ years, I was always the main provider, and she wanted to stay at home. She's looking at getting a minimum wage job, and hasn't even thought about how she can get by on that. <p>We have really been butting heads on our girls. She watches them daily while I work at her friends house, which is ok, but it's not an ideal environment, but she wants the girls to stay the night sometimes, and without any real place for them to sleep - my oldest would sleep in a borrowed bed with my W, my youngest on a mattress on the floor. I don't think this is appropriate, they have their own rooms, their own beds, their own stuff at their _home_. If my W decides to go off to her own thing, I don't think the girls should suffer. She disagrees and basically says, I want them with me. To me this is completely selfish.
I am having a harder and harder time dealing with her without being condecending to her. She just doesn't seem to get it. I feel she needs to grow up. And I don't think our girls should be dragged through the lessons she needs to learn. That being said, I also have a extremely hard time with saying no to her when it comes to the girls, I would NEVER deny the girls to their mother, nor their mother to the girls, but should I if I feel it's better for the girls in the long run?<p>Then today she calls, asks if the girls could spend the night, I just asked her what she would tell me if the situation was reversed. I did my best to be sincere and not judgemental. She told me to f off and hung up. I waited about 5 minutes and called back to see why she was mad at me for something she agreed with. She just told me she didn't want to talk to me, and hung up again. I felt ok with it, since I think I handled it well.
later on, W called, to say that the girls were yelling to come home, I said ok. I thought this was kind of wierd. Her tone of voice was odd, almost like she wanted to talk. I didn't say anything, just asked if she was bringing them home early, she said no, I said ok, see you then. It was like she wanted to talk or something, but I wasn't ready for that, just let it go. Should I have waited to see if she'd open up? I still trying to figure out exactly how to handle myself. I want this to work, but I know it will be some time before anything is possible. I want to give her space to realize what she's giving up(me, family, home, etc), and be kind to her to show her the things I've realized are important for us to be together(attention, housework, etc), but it's very difficult to not react to her nastiness. I feel like if I don't react, then I'm letting my emotions go away.

Oh Furrymitn, reading your tale makes me feel like I am looking into a mirror.What's so odd about all our situations is our WS are acting in similar ways. Now, I see why the Harley's and other marriage support people have been able to make a living off of these types of situations. The human dynamics are the same regardless of what body contains it. RMA, remember a couple of months ago, you told me that a defining moment for you was you looked at your ex-H and realized the sorry state that he had become; as a result, you said the enough is enough. What brought your statement to mine was recently someone said to me, "you do not need all that negativity in your life". Yesterday was a case in point, I was speaking to W about something I thought was a rather simple subject matter about our child but she took my concern about my child and turn it into a negative attack on me. I was dumbfounded. After we hung up, I had the feeling that this woman hates my guts. I really mean it. I get the impression that she feels I am Mr. Goodytwoshoes and she can't stand it. What brings this into focus even more is yesterday morning I was listening to Dr. Federick K.C. Price (Pastor from LA) and he was talking about the choice to have a pleasant life and a difficult life. He says contrary to popular belief, we have a choice. If we follow the bible and rules and regulations and from the mistakes of others, our life will be less stressful. This comment he made hits home,"The way of the transgressor is hard". I have been doing a lot of examination as to whether I overlooked signs while dating that could have save me from this mess. There were two things that came to mine but I thought they were adressed by me and her. The maturity issue is very important. I think that was my downfall in her. Maturity and fantasy were the knives in my back. I would have never had a child with this woman if I thought my marriage was going this route. Yes Furrymitn, it takes two who are committed. I have learned a lot. A stress free life (As much as humanly possible)is my goal. I hope my wife comes around but I doubt it. It is the web of the devil.<p>PS RMA, think "Snow Dogs". <p>Thanks guys.

furrymitn,<p>As for your W's changing emotions - comes with the territory. As hard as it is to remember, do know that your W is going through her own angst. You need to take care of yourself, because she is not offering any care or protection to you or your feelings right now. So, if you didn't feel like being there when you talked, you didn't feel like it. So, don't beat yourself up over one incident. you did great to try to explain your feelings about not wanting to disrupt your girls' lives by having them sleep here and there. It is important for you two to get along, even when you disagree. Sounds like you are doing a great Plan A. I hope your W will see the care you are offering her and your children. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.<p>Petvet, snow dogs - Malamutes or Huskies, perhaps? Did you get that appointment for your son with the counselor? Is he sleeping any better?<p>Desiree

Thank you for the prayers.
I have a grim outlook for a good outcome, but I'm doing what I can to try until I can't try anymore. Feel so much like just giving up, but i know I'd regret it if I don't pull my all into this. Now it seems when I tell her my feelings it falls on deaf ears, so I probably will not do that anymore, except in little bits. Two weeks, until after my oldest daughters b-day is what I give it until I don't think I'll be able to be the lost puppy. Then I think i'll have to go to plan b, and possibly sit down with her to draw some lines. She currently has a key to our house, and has made it known that she will come and go as she pleases. I would like my privacy.
This is now my home, no longer hers by her own choice. Hopefully she'll see that.<p>I have an appointment with a counselour tomorrow, hopefully that will give me a little more strength. As well as attending church for the first times in my life.

RMA: Are you a dog person? You seem to know the breeds. You lefted out the samoyeds. I have mals. Son is hanging in there, and I have an appointment for him on Thursday. How would you deal with the negativity from my W? I think she hates my guts or at least has it in for me. I am trying to stay away from her at all cost which includes speaking as little to her as possible. I don't need the negativity from her. Is this common behavior from a WS based on your experience?<p>Furrymitn: Church will certainly help you spiritually. Reading the bible will reinforce your church experience.

Talk about a heart wrencher. W calls me a bit ago, asked me to go out to dinner, myself, her, and our girls. But then retracts it and says, 'no, i don't want you to get the wrong idea'. That just tears me up. I think it's important for the girls to see some type of togetherness, but i'm having a tough time telling myself to keep the best of intentions in mind, while expecting the least. man oh man.<p>
I've got a counseling appt. tomorrow, I invited her to go 2 days ago, still waiting to see if she will attend. I haven't pressured her or anything, but I'm trying to tell myself that if she goes, not to expect it to be for the best of intentions on her part..<p>What should I do? Should I be hoping hoping hoping, only to be continually let down by her lack of caring?

Petvet, <p>I love dogs - have a mutt, but have always loved the huskies, etc. Also I am particularly fond of German Shepherds.<p>Aas for the negativity, just stay away from it as much as you can.<p>BOTH PETVET AND FURRYMITN: I think both of your W's are projecting on you. That means they are trying to find some "bad" things about you to transfer their own guilt and anger onto. <p>Petvet, certainly your W is angry at you, which makes no sense. You are trying desperately to give her the room she needs and yet, also you have been exceedingly loving towards her. I think her anger to you is just an outlet of her anger at HERSELF. <p>Furrymitn, all you can do is what you have done - invite her to join you in saving the marriage that belongs to you BOTH. It belongs to two people and it will eventually take two people to save it. As for your hoping, I can only share my own perspective. Hope as long as you have love for your W and a desire to reconcile, but try not to expect it to happen. Only you can read the signs and only you know your W the best to interpret her words, feelings and actions. At first, it is true that you can not trust anything they say, as the WS is usually in such a tizzy themselves. But after a period of time, watch your W's ACTIONS. To me they mean more than all the words in the world. In your heart, in time, you will begin to know what is real and what is not real.<p>I am so glad you are going to counseling, furrymitn, and to church. Truly, my faith is what carried me through the worst of times, and helped me to recover as well as I have done.<p>Wishing you both a peaceful evening, Desiree

Furymitn:Hoping has been my biggest problem during this ordeal. I've tried to pin hopes on every word spoken, every facial expression, etc. Through all the hoping, I still have nothing to hold onto. My hope has faded. It hurts me to say this but it is the truth. What really brought my realization on was the fact that she lied on some court papers about some simple questions I think in order to protect the OP. I think she is too far gone now and the fact that after I dropped my legal case she turned right around and filed against me. Thise two things have dash any of my hopes.It is a horrible feeling.To make things even worst, she is still treating me nasty and my son is having many problems with the situation. As my mom said, you can only take things at face value. I would not try to put sugar on something that's really hot sauce. I have been beaten up so much I just cannot take the beating anymore. I am so love drained I'm not sure whether I will be able to love and trust anyone again. She has really kicked my butt for four years. To have a woman tell you that she no longer wants your cards and flowers is a stab right in the heart. I have done everything in my power except put a bullet through my head. I'm serious. Everything from A to Z I have done to no avail. You are going to have to decide how much of a beating you are going to take from your W. From the way you are talking, I'm not sure your threshold is very deep. Do your best but it takes two. You cannot do it by yourself. You know I even looked at horoscope the other day and it said that my wife and I could make a relationship go but it will take flexibilty and work and a lot of give and take.It also said that she would have trouble settling down. WHAT CAN I SAY?

Well, W and I took the kids to dinner last night. things were ok, except for the little bit of tenseness in the air. I told her I was getting out of work early, and asked if she would mind if I picked up the girls early. She told me no way, that it was her time(even though it's my day with the girls). I just said, hey look, i'm asking you. I'm not telling you. She seemed a little better after that, but things weren't well.
I have my counseling appt today, I had invited her to attend with me, but waited until she told me yes, instead of pressuring her. I emailed her last night late night, just said <p>"hey i feel bad that things didn't go well tonight, im not apologizing, but hopefully we can try again and just agree not to talk about anything thats bothering us. I'm also wondering if you're going to go to my couseling appt, i'd really like it if you did, and I have to let the babysitter know."<p>She responded back "NO THANKS, i know after tonight i know that it will never work between us".<p>How is that fair? That is extremely depressing. I didn't go into the dinner expecting anything. MAybe she's using it as an excuse.

ugh. Just spoke with her, trying to make her understand how hard this is on our girls. she just doesn't get it. In the beginning, I didn't mind so much the girls going back and forth everyday, but now it's a month later and nothings changing. W hasn't got a job, car, or even beds for them to sleep in. She showing no promise as a provider. I don't want the girls there, I want them in a stable environment where they can prosper. I don't think I'll be able to take much more of W's 'oh, too bad you messed that all up, it just means we cant be together'.
I'm steadily losing hope, but on the upside, some things don't tend to be so heartwrenching anymore, still feel it, but not as hard, no anxiety attacks anymore.<p>She must be deep in the fog not even to be able to step up and take the responsibility of leaving. I try telling her the girls shouldn't have to suffer because she left, she gets very immature and taunts back.<p>I'm starting to feel a little more in control. Lawyers I've talked with in the last weeks have advised me to hold out a little, make efforts, that I won't have much trouble getting the best for the girls. Which I think is at their home(no matter if it was me there or not).<p>I definately feel its time to move on to plan bish.. no contact unless neccessary. Anyone have a plan bish letter example? I want to sit down with her and draw some lines that I think should be followed, etc(like her not barging into the house unannounced anymore), but I want to give her a letter before that so she can at least think about some of those things.