Petvet,<p>I don't think all WS learn from their mistakes, and really many people in general don't learn from their mistakes.<p>Here is the crux - a person has to want to learn and has to want to change. It is not for us to be able to educate the WS that they need to change and start to shape up and do the right things by their families. If only we could say the right things, then our WS would "see"...right???? WRONG!<p>Best lesson I learned from counselling with Steve: Our WS has a lot to learn about relationships, but they can not learn those lessons from us. It just can't happen, because it would cost our relationship too much emotionally.<p>Don't focus so much on the "meaning" of her forgetting your BD. Please do try to remember that your W is still self-focused right now. This entire incident is a not a measure of how little she is thinking of you, but how MUCH she is thinking of herself!!<p>Desiree<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>

A quote from my WS
"This is all about me"
It sure is.
Dave

RMA and Dave, ME,ME,ME.

RMA and Dave, It's ME,ME,ME! Plain and simple..

Petvet,
Just noticed something, you said it is plain and simple, me, me, me, you also did this on your
101 post, Kinda of strange. You got it, it is as simple (101) as that.
Hang in there buddy,
Dave

Petvet and davepr,<p>OK, this is not new news for you (davepr, this is so similar to your story, I just included you, too). The entire affair is about HER going through HER angst and HER unhappiness and trying to find HER happiness.<p>This is the classic affair story. For some folks, just substitute HIM for HER. The WS is unhappy and their "solution" is to run out and try to find "their" happiness.<p>Look, right now it really is all about HER. All either of you can do is just sit tight and let your Plan B's force your wives' hands. They will either begin to miss you terribly and turn around to give you a "second look" or they will walk away and won't look back. Both of your W's are still too connected to you for the latter to happen, I think. They still come to bothof you because you are still meeting some of their emotional needs by taking care of the family and the financial. <p>Just do as good a Plan B as you can, and try to focus on yourself, because it is the only investment right now, other than on your kids, that is likely to give you a positive return.<p>Desiree

Thanks Desiree, I hope you are right. I am starting to feel much better, I am much more optimistic about things since finding out about the OM and her 2 best friends telling her point blank that OM is a loser and is not for her. No she has lost them as friends and she won't speak to them. She is getting no support from me, I did a very good Plan B today and will do a better one tomorrow. STBXW invited me to a dance recital for D, I told her I was sorry but I couldn't attend, found out that she did NOT invite OM, just me.
I am pulling back and she is now wondering what is happening, seems like everything around her is falling apart. I do realize that even if she ends it with OM, she may not come back, but for some reason I know that I will be fine either way. I am much less dependent on having my future with her.
Hopefully I can maintain this feeling.
Good night,
Dave

Thanks also, RMA. I hope you are right as well, but I am not optimistic. I have pretty much written her off. I am looking to the future. I know the future will be bright for me with or without her. My only sad point right now is my son. He is having a tough time in school and everything. I have to get him pointed in the right direction. That's my main worry right now. I am trying to distance myself from my wife even more now.<p>I have sad this several times, but I will repeat it. RMA, you have been very helpful. I don't know what I would have done without your incouragement back last Fall. I was in BAD shape. Dave, I hate that you share my misery, but you and I will come out smelling like roses in the eyes of our children and others. People will know that we are good men who care about their families.

Petvet, you are totally right, I know this is not a game but short term they are winning and having all the fun (no responsibility) while although we are morning their loss but working on ourselves and becoming better people. In the long run we will be happier, stronger people and will someday find love again, while they will be dealing with the same issues but worse because when reality does finally hit them, It is going to be painful and they are not going to be able to fix what they broke, ie the family unit.
Hang in there. I have gone all day with no contact, once I get through today, she has the kids for the weekend : ( but I will not have to inferface with her again until Monday so that will be atleast 5 days with ZERO contact with her. My goal is to go the Month of May without ANY contact, they may not be possible because of the kids but I am going to try.<p>I have a new issue, since now I know what a scumbag loser this guy is, If we ever did get back together I don't think I can handle the fact that she has been having unprotected sex with him for 10 months now. YUCK!! That image bothers the heck out of me, that would be a major issue for me if there ever was a reconciliation but we will cross that bridge if we ever get there.<p>Take care,
Dave

Petvet/Desiree/and others,
Here is what I posted on Frank1001 post.<p>Check out the Tough Love Post: Petvet, you, and I and probably AANAS-2 are in almost identical situations, I was thinking of starting a new thread so that we can share our daily events with each other and learn from them. What do you think?<p>Desiree, it would be great if you could stick with us, it seems we are all now into a modified Plan A/Plan B (limited contact Plan B, but Plan A when we have contact) You advise is sooo helpful.<p>Take care,
Dave

davepr and Petvetr,<p>If you guys want to post on another thread, I will do so. I will look for whichever it is - new one or another existing one, just let me know where it is if I don't "find" ya'll.<p>Desiree

Dave, if you want to open another thread that's fine with me, but I am keeping mine open. Just let me know what the new thread is.<p>You are correct about the long term consequences our WS will experience. You know the thought that our wives may have had sex with someoneelse is what is so demoralizing. They are comtaminated as far as I am concern. If they ever came back, it will take a long time before trust is rebuilt. This mess can consume you if you let it. My W has kid on weekend as well but I am in the process of getting a temporary custody order, etc. to lay down ground rules. She does not want to obid by rules because whenever I try to set ground rules she tries to start an argument and accuse me of trying to keep kid from her. She does not understand that one parent will probably end up getting the short end of the stick. She was the one who lefted, so she has given up alot of her rights. I am going to tighten things up legally because there are too many loose ends that leave me expose. <p>Later.

Petvet,<p>As much as I hope and pray that you and your W won't end up divorced, I do agree 100% that you must protect yourself and your child legally in case things do end up that way.<p>Desiree

Hi RMA, how are you doing? Have you heard from Dave or know whether he starting new post? <p>Have question for you? As you know, Sunday is Mother's Day. My good side wants to take W out to dinner with son. My bad side wants to implement Plan B. I spoke with Father in law over the weekend, and he thinks I should continue going after her. Of course, he does not know the entire story. He only knows her side. What do you think? You know I tried to go through several Divorce posts; boy, it can get time consuming.<p>What are your plans for this Sunday? Are things still going well with your friend? By the way, did you ever read Dr. Laura's book?<p>See ya!

Petvet,<p>It might not hurt to do Mother's Day with your W. She is surely dragging her feet about the divroce. She seems so eager to spend time with you, too. Go ahead - your son would likely enjoy the day with both his parents, too. <p>Things are going well for me and my fella. I am having a really good time with this guy. He is going to BBQ for me and all the kids on Sunday, as I would rather do that than go out - too many people rushing around. He did take me out for steaks this past weekend, as a pre Mother's Day dinner out.<p>davepr has started another thread on this forum. Look for it. He, Frank1000 and aanast can all use your help and encouragement, because they have a similar story to you.<p>Desiree

I'm glad things are going well with your new relationship. You are not going to believe this. W asked me last week whether she could keep kid this week (pick him up the entire nine yards). Well, so far, she has call me at work to request that I do her a favor to pick kid up from GP's because of her job. Absolutely amazing! When was the last time she did me a favor? Oh! by the way, my A was able to get our court hearing delayed so a hearing can take place to discuss why the hearing should be delayed. To be honest with you, I don't think she is trying to hang around with me.<p>I'm going to search for Dave's new post again.

Petvet,<p>I saw your post on the other thread. You guys are all going to be great supposrt for each other over there.<p>Maybe they are trying to rush things because during the discovery process, it will be obvious that your W will not come out looking too good. By attempting to skip this, they hope she will look more "favorable". I am betting she is asking for full custody and the financial support that goes with that.<p>Stick with your plan, Petvet. You can not prevent her from making decisions that will ultimately out her in some seriously bad spots. You can be the great guy that you are, and nothing more.<p>Desiree

Petvet, my posted is titled:
WS Wants a Divorce - Plan B - Tough Love<p>I agree with RMA, stick to your plan, the legal could be nasty.. mine was... It is going to be tough time, WS will probably think you are trying to "screw" her, mine did. Stick to you plan through out this process and protect yourself.
My personal experience the legal stuff set us backward but once it was over, we could move forward, I think it helped reality set in for my
WS so it can be a positive thing in the end.
Take care,
Dave

RMA: I think you may be right; however, she has not requested full custody and my A says that she will not get it, but i think she will change her mine concerning custody if she thinks she can avoid child support. <p>Dave: I know things are going to get dirty eventually that's why I am sticking to business.I know I am going to receive pressure from inlaws and the like to take it easy on her. NOT! When she filed for divorce she knew what the consequences were. I'm going to take care of business. I'm going to do it right the first time.I hope you are right Dave about going through this will have a postive affect on W.We will see.

Petvet, you need to show her reality, show her what it is going to be like being divorced, that is not being mean, just reality. The more reality she sees, the more she hits bottom, the tougher life becomes without you and the kids (ie the grass is not greener) the higher the probabilty is that she will hit bottom and start to pull herself out of the fog. Only she can do this, you can help by NOT supporting her and letting her (not making her) see reality, you can make anyone do anything but you can sure open up some of the doors.
Your relationship with her may take a few steps backwards but you are laying the ground work for a good Plan B/Tough Love
Dave