<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>

HI All,

For some reason, my computer at work keeps posting the same post over and over again, when I click my mouse on certain items. Don't know why, but sorry for the double and triple posts.

Wallace<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>

What is Plan B?

Tatchina,

I'm not good at giving directions, so here goes.

At the top of the page there is a thread that says something to the effect "General Welcome to Marriage Builders, click on that, and then look for Plan A and Plan B. It will give you the details of what Plan B is.

Wallace

Dave: How were you able to avoid talking to W when your kids were home? Maybe your kids are older than mine and they could answer phone themselves.<p>
Wallace: Be careful with using the web at work. I would hate you getting in trouble. Some employers can monitor your activities. BE CAREFUL. Have you heard from W? What's going on?<p>RMA: Are you still with us? Just let me know that you are still alive.

Petvet,

Well it is officially 7 weeks to the day and have not heard anything from WS.

I'm trying to get my attorney off of his rear end and start moving on this D. It seems that he wants to take a vacation about every other week. I just want to get this over with at this point and move on.

We are packing up her various collections that she has at our home. Music boxes, Barbies, etc. I don't want to look at them anymore.
Looks like she was selling some of her Barbies, she had some real rare ones. She either has a drug habit that I'm not aware of, or she is trying to support the OM, but who knows.

So basically we are packing all her belongings that she left behind, which was many, and putting them in a storage garage that I rented.

How is your situation going? Hopefully better than mine.

Good question Petvet, where is RMA?


Dave,

Hope everything is still working for you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone, i was out of town for the day yesterday so I could not post. W if moving back home this weekend!!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I am scared but anxious to get going on our future together. I wish you guys were having the same good luck.. I feel bad that my situation has improved but you guys are still where you are at, I know you are doing fine, I can see it your e-mails...<p>Petvet, my kids are 1.5 and 3.5 years old... if W wanted to talk with my 3.5 year old daughter, she would leave a voice mail stating that she just called to check on Emily.. as I stated, when she called I would let it go into voicemail, then immediately check it, if she called to check on Daughter I would call her back and hand the phone to Emily, when she was done speaking I would simply hang up the phone, seemed to work for us.
When she had the kids I simply would not call, that was not easy but sometimes they would call me, again I would let it go into voice mail, if it was my daughter I would immediately call back, most of the times W knew it was me calling back and D would answer, when W would answer I would simply ask to speak to D and would not make any conversation with W. Hope this helps you.
Dave

Dave: How did W initiate conversation with you to start the road back to recovery?<p>Wallace: Once again, I cannot believe your W is willing to give up so much for the unknown. Boy, she is in for it. Man! she is going to hit the wall hard. Do you know anything about this OM?Can you assume that your MI still has contact with her daughter? I really feel bad about your situation Wallace. I really do. My eyes get watery after reading your post. You are a better man than I am. If you like sports, why don't you take in the fight tonight? You need a diversion. This D thing will drive you crazy.

Petvet,<p>I am still here. Been busy, but have tried to keep up with at least reading and checking on ya'll this week. My garden is begining to come in, so I am busy with the vegetables. I have a lot of green beans to snap and put up this weekend. I have tons of green tomatoes and I check everyday for the first ripe one, but not yet. I may have other veggies ready - need to check today.<p>What happened with your W?????? If you two haven't already talked, my suggestion is this: LISTEN to her, even if she starts off with stuff you don't agree with. Listening shows love, respect and care for another. However, you also need to stand by what you think is right and then get your points across, if they are opposing, in a respectful manner. If you can, do your best to use POJA. Even if you two end up divorced, you will have to be able to co-parent, and POJA is necessary to be successful in deciding together what is best for your son.<p>What I would hate is that no matter what, she comes away with the impression that you are trying to punish her or hurt her in some way. It is hard, I think, for the WS to understand that the "negatives" out of this entire mess are NOT necessarily ramifications of the BS becoming vindictive or "not being able to let go", but oftentimes the negatives are just ramifications of the WS's own choices.<p>The point is (and I am a wordy one, huh??), I hope that she can see that you aren't necessarily "going hard" on her to get back at her - she is just going to lose alot of the benefits - financial, physical and emotion benefits of being in a relationship with you. It's all about the consequences on her own choosing.<p>Your job is to leave the door open for reconciliation; make it clear what the terms would include for you to consider reconciliation; and also stand firm that you will protect your child and yourself legally and financially, to the fullest extent of the law, if the divorce becomes final.<p>The rest is up to her.<p>Big-time prayers for your family this weekend!!<p>RMA

Petvet,<p>What I know about the OM is this.<p>He is a Pro., he has done this before with another woman. Once she got her D settlement, he took her money and wasted it away. She pressed charges on him, and he was facing an 8 year prison term.
This woman dropped charges on him, because she didn't want him to go to jail... she wanted to be with him. Once the charges were dropped, he dumped her and started pursuing my W through a friend of my W. <p>He has done this many times before, so he is not new at this game. This info came from friends of mine at the Police Dept.
OM has one problem though, and so does my W. It appears that my Attorney's are going to plead to the court that all the money she has stolen during our separation as well as cash withdrawls from my credit cards, should be her 50% of the settlement.<p>If the courts agree, then she will get very little, except her personal effects. <p>If that happens, OM and STBXW will have a feeding frenzy off of each other. They will be stealing and cheating on each other in very short time. On the other hand the OM will probably look for his next victim... leaving my stbx to fend for herself. Only time will tell though.<p>Do I think she realizes what she is giving up? I can't answer that, only she knows what is running through her head.<p>She is leaving a beautiful family that loved her dearly. A nice home (OM house looks like an old garbage dump) and stability.<p>His occupation? he is a garbage collector, that races cars at a local speedway here parttime. OM is D, and has 2 children that his X has.<p>My stbx met this OM through one her drunken girlfriends, who I never approved of.<p>Will she hit the wall at high speed? Probably, but when? I don't know.<p>Nothing has touched her so far, so maybe it will all go the way she wants. Only time will tell.<p>Do I think the MI is in touch with her? You bet I do, Mother's Day came and went, and W, would always make it a point to do something nice for her mother on Mother's Day, I don't see any reason why she would not at least call her to wish her a Happy Mother's Day.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace<p>[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]<p>[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>

Wallace, RollMeAway, and Petvet:<p>Why is it that WS's almost always chose such pieces of work as their lovers? It's almost like there is a part of them that wants them to self destruct, their inner Satan you might say. <p>If it wasn't for the pain they have inflicted on us, they would have to be pitied for their choice of travelling 100mph on their highway to hell. Talk about the crash and burn at the end of the highway.<p>Maybe another acronym for WS should be HH for hellbound heart.

Toomuchcoffeman,<p>I wish I could answer your question. But now that you mention it, I've all of a sudden taken notice of this self destruct method myself.<p>It does appear that the WS's pick some real winners. It's liike an epidemic, which Petvet eluded to in an earlier post.<p>Most of them are going to do a crash and burn, and most of them including mine, will need someone to be there to pick-up the pieces. <p>I don't know about anybody else, but there is one problem my WS has... I am not going to be there for her to pick those pieces up for her, and I doubt anyone else in my family is going to be there for her either, she just doesn't realize it yet. In fact, I believe (I could be wrong), that when this is all said and done with, it is going to hit her like a ton of bricks, (At 100 mph).<p>Stay strong!<p>Wallace

RMA: No we have not talked yet. On Friday when she came to get kid, she told me that she was going to call me later that night, she never did (that was the third time she has said that to me this week). I don't know what is going on. I attended a church picnic that my inlaws invited me to and she was there with the kid but she did not discuss anything with me of importance. My thing is if she has something to say, say it and be done with it. She has not had any problem in the past expressing herself. She is a very talkative person. I have not been mean to her, but I have been all business. Now! this garden of yours. You must have acres of land for your garden. I have a small parcel that has not produced any eatable specimens so far. How can you have eatable specimens so soon? Mr. Garden expert (my next door neighbor) does not even have any eatable specimens yet. You must live in Napa Valley, California. PLEASE PLEASE tell me your secret, so that my little parcel can be the envy of Mr. Garden expert. I have some melons (got to have melons), cucumbers, greens (gotta have them too), and to be honest with you I have forgotton the rest.<p>SORRY EVERYONE FOR THE GARDEN OUTBURST! I HAVE TO FIND OUT HER SECRET. IT'S ONLY JUNE.<p>Wallace: You know Mr. Harvey said in his book that the WS will generally chose someone with the same human failings as themselves. Your W has really chosen a piece of work. I'm sorry that I asked because it makes your W look even worst.<p>Toomuchcoffee (I hope I'm saying it right): You are correct. Creps hand out together.

Hi All,<p>RMA,<p>Even though I didn't plant a garden this year (started to, then all hell broke loose), I would also like to get some good gardening tips.<p>Petvet<p>One good thing that is in your favor... you are still able to have a point of communication with your W, even if it's not up to snuff right at the moment.
Then next time you talk to your W, I would try to strike up a conversation with her that you both can find some common ground to communicate with each other on. It might be a good starting point. <p>IMO, it sounds like your "business as usual" may be annoying your W. Hence, she says she will call, and then doesn't. It may be her way of getting under your skin for the way she feels she is being treated at the moment. I could be way off base with that one though... just a thought.<p>I have to agree with you about WS's seeking out people with similiar shortcomings... how sad it all is.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace

Wallace: I have absolutely no idea what W is up to. If she has something to say, she needs to say it. She has had plenty of opportunities. I don't think she is playing games. Since she lefted home, this is the third or fourth time she has done this but this is the first time she has indicated her desire to speak to me about something. You know something just came to me; in the past, sometimes when she would have something really important to say to me she would write me a letter. Due to the D, she probably does not want to write a letter. That was one of her problems was that she would not communicate with me face to face but by letter on some really important issues especially if it was about something she had done wrong. If she wants to talk to me, she will figure out a way. <p>Come on RMA, we need those secrets. My garden is waiting. Please don't tell me you have one of those million dollar irrigation systems. If that's the case,then back to the garden hose.

Petvet,

I understand about the communiction problem. My STBXW and I had a similiar problem.

Only problem with communicating with my STBXW, when she did say something... it was all lies. Maybe if she wrote it down, she would of thought a little harder about what she was doing.

Don't know what to make of your situation though.

Your situation is similiar to mine, with her coming and going all the time. I couldn't see the writing on the wall, until it was all said and done with.
After she left this last time... it all became very clear what in fact was really going on.

Something will break, It's just a matter of when, and what.

Wish I had more to offer you on this one.

Maybe RMA, or Dave can help out... by the way... Dave must be doing pretty good... we haven't heard from him in a while. Hope things are going well for him.

Wallace

Dave: How did W initiate conversation with you to start the road back to recovery?<p>Answer:
Well, first I could tell things were starting to change by her actions, she was becoming more friendly and going out of her way to see me, she would also tell me things like - I will be home ALONE tonight if you need to reach me. The WS will find a way to have contact with you when they are done with the A and considering recovery, don't worry, she will find a way in and you will know that something is up. It will be a dramatic change from the Fog that they are in. My plan was to avoid as much contact as possible, but when you must have contact, and you will especially with children, be friendly, polite, etc, but limit the contact to what is necessary. I wanted to show her the person that I had become yet show her that she was giving this up, if that makes sense. Try not to do any LB or be revenageful, even if you have to suck it up once in a while.. ( I basically did the opposite of what I wanted to do alot of the times). For example, if subject of OM came up, instead of getting mad, I would just try to be as understanding as possible. I tried to think of her as having a mental condition(fog)and she couldn't help what she was doing, I loved her unconditionaly so even though I disapprove of her behavior I still loved her...
Hope this helps..<p>Wife moved back in this weekend, been very busy with the move ,etc... things are still going well.<p>Take care,
Dave

Petvet,<p>So, you guys haven't talked??? No surprise, really. Your W is a classic conflict-avoider. Just stick to what has been working so far. It really is all you can do and all you need to do, too.<p>About my garden. Well, I really don't get any credit for this one. My boyfriend did it all. In less than 60 days, we have picked about a bushel and a half of green beans (off of one short row), some pole beans and had loads of radishes. The tomato bushes are laden, truly laden with tomatoes. Have cucumbers and squash on the vine, too. Only laggard is the lima beans. They have flowered but nothing on them and they are my favorite veggie (next to tomatoes), so I have been hoping and hoping, but nary a thing yet. <p>I have always been a gardener and done it myself. This guy I am now with also has this as an interest, and I asked him to put one in for me and it is incredible. His secrets are this: one large load of good topsoil and small load of mushroom compost from the nursery. Add to that the compost from composting since I moved into this house a year ago. Water, fertilizer and using a hoe everyday to keep the soil around the plants from compacting is it, guys. Those are all the secrets.<p>Davepr,<p>Glad your W is finally home. Keep your expectations as low as you can. Don't be surprised if her attemps are half-hearted. I hope not, but you have to be sorta prepared for that. You and your W are in my prayers!<p>Wallace, <p>Maybe your W didn't leave you as much as she just decided to leave behind all of her responsibilities. What do you think of that?? Could that be the case??

Too Much Coffee Man (hope I got that right!),<p>Welcome onto this thread. I am not sure about the attraction to the WS's weaknesses, but I would definitely say that the WS is attracted to someone who can provide him/her with whatever they felt was missing from the marriage. Of course, if makes no difference HOW these needs were missing, only that they were.<p>My experience is that it matters little what you have done for the WS in the past. That all seems to be forgotten - it is what are you doing for me right now?<p>All, I have picked more beans tonight, so need to get off line to get these snapped and canned. I am gonna be enjoying myself all winter long with these beans!<p>Take care, RMA

RMA,<p>I think you hit the nail right on the head. She is running away from all of her (I'll call them troubles), that are, and have, manifested themselves to a point of no return.<p>I have a question for everyone!<p>My BI called me tonight on my cell, and started to ask me questions about what I was doing.<p>During the conversation, he brought up to me that my STBXW had called him. He didn't say why or what they talked about, he just told me that he stated to her during the course of their conversation, "that she needed to give me an explanation of why she did the things she did, and that she should at least let everyone know her intentions". He stated that her reply to him was, "it's none of your business what I do", and then hung up on him. Does this get any stranger?<p>I asked him, "that is all she said", and he said it was.<p>He then asked me if I was going to continue with the D, and if so, was I going to move out of State after it was all said and done with? I told him that the D was going to go to the Courts.<p>I'm not real sure what I'm going to do as far as moving. I had been talking about moving for quite sometime, even before my life went in the dumper. He wanted to know where I was going to move, so like an idiot, I told him "Tampa Bay, Florida". Which I have been thinking about moving to, but probably not right away.
I don't know why I blurped that out... it just kind of caught me off guard, and I really didn't know what to say when he asked me... it sounded good at that moment. I should of not said anything in retrospect.<p>I also told him that in my heart I had forgiven WS for what she has done, but she needs to seek God's forgiveness, not mine.<p>My question (sorry it took so long to get to this part), is do you think I should not say anything to him about what might, or might not be going on in my life concerning my affairs and the D?
keep in mind, this is the same BI, that lives with my MI. I still believe that STBXW is in contact with her Mother. <p>I'm still good friends with my BI, but so is my STBXW.<p>Your input, and any other additional words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated.<p>Dave,<p>Glad to hear that things are woking out for you so far... keep up the good work... but stay on your toes.
I have been in this situation your in right now, and you see where I am.
So please stay on top of it all, I would like to see you both have the type of marriage that I know you truly want.
I hope it really works for you this time.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace

RMA: Thanks for the garden tips. Watch out next door neighbor.I need to work order in my garden. Next door neighbor was tooling away in his garden yesterday when I arrived home from work.<p>Wallace: It seems to me that you are being scoped for information by your BI. Apparently, your BI is giving your W a hard time about what she is doing. Once again, you should not have told them your future plans. I would tell BI that if W wants to talk to you, she knows how to contact you. I think your MI may be afraid that you will move away with her grandkids and she will not be able to see them on a regular basis. If that's the case, your W may file a court petition trying to keep you from moving too far from her. Your W is still fighting this thing. She knows she is knee deep in _______ ,so she is trying to just survive and keep these together in her odd way. She knows she is in a mess. It seems that the inlaws are really giving your W the business. This may work to your advantage as far as getting her pointed toward your way. Don't give inlaws too much information. Think before you reply. That's my opinion. <p>Dave: I am still praying for you, man. Like RMA said, please keep your expectations low. Be cautious with your eyes and ears wide open.<p>Garden, here I come.