Wallace,<p>You remind me of me! I give away too much info, too. But, I am trying to work on that. A truthful answer would have been that you really haven't decided to move at all, and have considered several places. My concern would be her popping up on you later down the road. I would be thrilled if she would work on both her issues and your marriage. But, with her history with the forged checks, etc, I would be somewhat leary of her popping up unexpectedly.<p>Noone knows her heart for sure, and probably your W least of all. She is sorta drifting right now. She sure doesn't seem to have a spot picked out on the horizon that she is definitely heading for. No, she seems rather aimless. Your best hopes are to keep doing what you are doing. She has to decide to come back to port. All you can do is be there. Hang in there!<p>Petvet,<p>Teehee...I sense a contest with your neighbor coming on. Gardening is good for the body, soul, taste buds and for the budget, too! This will be good "therapy" for you. Get out there and whack the ground all you want! Take care.<p>RMA

Thanks for the advice all,

Petvet:

I think you are right about me being scoped for information. I think my BI has good intentions, but I'm not so sure that he may not be giving that information to my STBXW, or MI. I'm not real sure what to make of it.

I've decided to not give out anymore info to anyone on my STBXW's side of the family. In fact I'm not initiating any contact with them at all at this point.

Sticking with a hard Plan B and Plan D.

RMA:

Again, I think you are right on the numbers concerning my STBXW.
Regarding if she has any real plan, I'm not sure. We got a change of address notice from the Post Office yesterday, changing her home address to who knows where. So she is on the move to some where that is for sure.

IMHO, I think she is so ashamed and guilt ridden with what has been exposed since she has left. That she can't face anyone at this point, if ever.

I read, that WS's who go through this type of A, tend to move a distance away from family and friends, and have no contact with anyone for a very long period of time, while their A is ongoing.

So I'm sticking to my my Plan B and Plan D. I'm not changing directions on it, unless some miracle by chance happens, and I'm not looking for that to happen anytime soon.

In the end, It will be her loss, not mine, nor my childrens.

I'll be glad when this is all over.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Wallace, I agree with your conclusion, I would avoid any conversation with MI or BI regarding STBXW. If MI and BI still want to be friends then fine, but the ground rules should be no discussion regarding the D, STBXW, etc. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> RMA, I think you hit the nail right on the head. She is running away from all of her (I'll call them troubles), that are, and have, manifested themselves to a point of no return.
<hr></blockquote>
I am learning alot about why my W has her A now that we are communicating fairly well. She has told me that she was not thinking clearly and was running away from her responsibilities as a parent, as a mother, and as a person. The OM was her ticket out. She said that she got to the point where she just could not take the kids all day (being a stay home mother), it was just too much stress. So, I think my W was doing the same thing as Wallace STBXW, running away from responsibilites/troubles. As we all know,you can run but you cannot hide, eventually it will catch up with them. My W has stated that she has learned alot from this, that instead of running she needs to face the problems, communicate them to me, and work out a solution to them. As an example, now she (we) are planning to put our youngest into day care for 2 days a week starting in Sept when our D goes back to school so that she does have a break durning the day.<p>Take care,
Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the insight of the thoughts of your W, and why she did the things she did. It puts things a little more into perspective.

In my case, I don't respect it, nor can I condone it. I think communicating to the other S, is a much better form of resolving the issues at hand. I guess that is why I am in the shape I'm in. STBXW chose the opposite way of communicating... it got my attention though, but not in a positive way. In fact it was the most destructive things she could of done concerning our M.

In the last couple of years, STBXW's communication skills dropped to about zero regarding much of anything. It was not that I had cut off talking with her. On the contrary, I begged her to open up and let me know if there was anything that I could do for her.
She was probably withdrawn from the marriage at that point and I didn't realize it.

Anyway, I get the feeling from you Dave, that maybe I should pull back from proceeding with the D, that maybe I should give this some time, or am I reading that wrong?

It is a definite plus that you and your W are communicating with each other. I believe that communication in a M is critical, without it, there will be problems for sure.
keep up the good work!

Sorry, I had to vent a litle on this one. It gets so frustrating sometimes.

Stay Strong!

Wallace<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>

davepr,<p>Sounds like things are starting off on the right foot! Gosh, I am so encouraged for you and your W. You are both in my prayers. I think a break for her is going to be a definite plus.<p>Wallace,<p>My best advice to you and anyone else regarding getting a divorce is this: do NOT file unless you want to be divorced. If you can see no end to her affairs, if you see no hope that she has any interest in wanting to come home and wanting to change, if you have lost desire to have her as a partner, if you have begun to feel that your life will be better off without her and her drama in it, then.....really begin to consider what your life will be like without her in it. Consider divorce and be honest about the plusses and the minuses to you and the kids. Then, once you make up your mind - sit on your decision awhile; pray on that decision before doing anything.<p>When you get a certain peace in your heart - that you are incredibly sad but know it will all work out OK somehow, then you file for divorce. <p>If you feel all these things, then keep the course - you are likely doing what needs to be done now. If you have any doubts about yourself, your own feelings or whether or not your W might want to reconcile in the near future, then stop the proceedings for a bit. They can always be re-initiated in the future, if need be. You need to listen to your inner voice - that is God answering your prayers and leading you.<p>Petvet,<p>Hope you are having a good day.<p>RMA

Hi RMA,<p>I have stared at this whole D situation that I have in front of me and thought and prayed about it for hours.<p>There will always be doubts in my mind concerning this issue. So much damage has been done in this marriage, only the Lord can save it I believe.<p>My W, in the past 2 yrs. has done the following, (most of which has happened in the last 4 months)<p>Left our home and children (4 times) not counting now, which will be 2 months to the day and counting this Friday, and she has still not attempted to make contact with any of her children.<p>Has had multiple A with OM, which I believe is still ongoing.<p>Got pregnant by OM.<p>Got an abortion. (This is suppose to be a Christian woman - Pro-Life).<p>Stole money, forged checks (one was to pay for the abortion)on my personal checking accounts, not hers. <p>Maxed out my personal credit cards for cash only advances (Thousands of dollars).<p>Took household items from our home and took them to pawn shops and sold them.<p>This is suppose to be my W, who I took vows to love and to cherish, till death do us part. If I remember correctly she took the same vows as I did.<p>Excuse me, if i am getting a little excited, but just writing this list makes me ill.<p>Reconciliation, remorse, I don't even think she knows what those words mean anymore. She is not feeling any of what those words mean.<p>So RMA, I think you can see what I'm left with. It's pretty much a no brainer I think.<p>I wish it wasn't so, but it is. Unless God creates some miracle, then I am left with no choice but to continue with the D, as sad as it all is.<p>You speak words of wisdom, if only I could of found this site, before all this transpired... things may not of turned out the way they did.<p>May God Bless you!<p>Wallace

Wallace: I went through the same inner turmoil concerning the D case. I finally listened to the inner voice and dropped my case only to have wifey to refile against me three days later. I am forging ahead with the business at hand. I have no other choice. Now, she is fighting against paying child support. After listening to what Dave's W told him, that goes along with my thoughts that my W left to avoid full time responsibilities as wife and mother. Now, she is the proud distinction of being a visitor and visitied by kid. She wanted the single life, so that she could do whatever she wanted when she wanted. She wanted no accountability whatsoever. She still has not had the DISCUSSION with me. There was a time when this woman could tell me anything. Now, she cannot hold a serious discussion with me but only small talk. This is a very STUPID breakup that what makes me so angry about this thing. If she treated me like she did when she was trying to get me in the first place, she could turn this marriage around but that would take some effort from her. Dr. Laura tells people this all the time when they say that they have fallen OUT OF LOVE. If these folks continue with their OUT OF LOVE views, they will be in and out of relationships every two to three years if not sooner.<p>RMA: I'm not in a competition with neighbor per say but I just want my garden to look like his spread. He deserves the accolades because he really works hard.<p>Dave: Keep up the good work.

Petvet,

Unfortunarely, I believe that my W and your W both have the same distinction of wanting to live the single life again , and dispose of any responsibilities that they have had.

I agree with you when you quoted Dr.Laura.

I know that if I did decide to drop or put the D on hold, my STBXW, would indeed turn around and and file within a short period of time such as yours did.

I never really had any intentions of holding back. I do believe that if we had a clear line of communication between each other, we may in fact be able to work past all the issues, and work through this.

My BI called me again last night, and told me that in fact my stbxw and my MI are in contact. He said that MI bought a used living room chair from the people that live across the street. He said he believes it's for STBXW's new residence. because the chair is still at neighbors... MI didn't bring it home.
Probably STBXW and the Om will pick it up this weekend and tek it to her new home.

Also stated that W is denying A, as well as everything else. She is stating that I was physically abusing her, so that is why she left. When I heard this, It hurt. I could not believe what I was hearing. At first I didn't understand why she would make a statement such as this.
My STBXW knows I have never physically abused her. My children would never stand by me if in fact that was the case. In fact, the day she left our home I was at work. We had not been in any type of an arguement for quite some time. I though we were doing pretty good.

My only explanation for her statement (and I'm still brain crunching this one) is she may be using this excuse to try to mask the horrible acts she has committed in our marriage, to validate her actions in her own mind as well as others so It looks like I'm the bad guy in everybodys eyes.

I never wanted a good guy versus bad guy situation. I just wanted to have a good M.

I am guilty of one thing though... I did a horrible Plan A. I was not meeting her EN's. I was not aware of it at the time, because I didn't realize the amount of time I needed to expend to meet W's EN's until I found this site.

Anyway, it seems like my STBXW has stooped to a new level by making these physical abuse statements. I'm still trying to figure out why this physical abuse statement was made. It really hurts me to hear these type of statments made about me. I have always tried to be the best H I could be. Never, would I ever try to hurt her physically . My STBXW knows in her heart these statements are not true. Our situation just seems to get worse as each day passes. As I stated in an earlier post, I believe only God could save this marriage.

I would appreciate any ideas as to why you might think she would make a statement like this. This hurts just as bad as all the rest of things that has happened here lately.

Wallace

Wallace, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It is a definite plus that you and your W are communicating with each other. I believe that communication in a M
is critical, without it, there will be problems for sure.<hr></blockquote> Yes, I totally agree. I think the running away from issues/responsibilites has alot to do with how the person was brought up. I know from my W experience that she came from a broken home, that her father left their mother and 3 children when she was only 3 years old, her mother was a non influence in her life, my W learned no responsibilty and the only lesson she did learn was how to run away when things got tough. When things went wrong for her with our mariage, the stress of the children, etc, she did the only things she knew how to do - run.
I don't have alot of sympthy for people that run away from life but it was the only thing she knew how to do... but she finally "crashed and burned". She could not longer run away and the things that she ran from were the things that she missed, ie the children/me. She was then faced with two choices, run futher to get away from the pain or face reality, she choice to face reality and work on the issue, that I can respect. So in one hand while I don't respect what she did and she is accountable as she is an adult, it was the only thing she knew how to do, and I do respect that for once in her life she is going to work things out instead of running away from them.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Anyway, I get the feeling from you Dave, that maybe I should pull back from proceeding with the D, that maybe I
should give this some time, or am I reading that wrong?<hr></blockquote>
RMA can a great reply to this, I cannot add much more. Only you can decide this.. from your postings I know that deep down inside you want your marriage and your family back but the pain from what she did is so great and she would really have to make a committment to work on her issues as she obviously has many. I can only believe that there must be some kind of childhood issues to make her do the things she is doing? She seems to have done a 180 from the person that you knew and loved. All I can say is that it is possible for the WS to face reality and make a committment to work out their issues. I believe this is the first time in 33 years that my W is going to finish what she started, face reality, and make this work. Of course some people will make the choice that they will continue to run and not face reality, I think you need to decide how long you are willing to wait for something that may or may not ever happen, only you can answer that. Of course if you decide to wait and it does happen,there are alot more bridges you will need to decide to cross or not. Either way, you are going to be a better, stonger person for the experience.<p>Petvet, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> After listening to what Dave's W
told him, that goes along with my thoughts that my W left to avoid full time responsibilities as wife and mother.
Now, she is the proud distinction of being a visitor and visitied by kid. She wanted the single life, so that she
could do whatever she wanted when she wanted. She wanted no accountability whatsoever. She still has not had
the DISCUSSION with me. There was a time when this woman could tell me anything. Now, she cannot hold a
serious discussion with me but only small talk.<hr></blockquote> You know the old saying "be careful of what you wish for" You WS wanted the single life, no responsibility, etc, so now she got it. Sit back, be patient, and wait and see, my bet is that she will find out that this is NOT what she really wanted.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>This is a very STUPID breakup that what makes me so angry about
this thing. If she treated me like she did when she was trying to get me in the first place, she could turn this
marriage around but that would take some effort from her. Dr. Laura tells people this all the time when they say
that they have fallen OUT OF LOVE. If these folks continue with their OUT OF LOVE views, they will be in and out
of relationships every two to three years if not sooner. <hr></blockquote>
I think most of the breakups are STUPID.. I am not so sure she has fallen out of love although my guess is that she tells you this, mine did too, I think it is more confusion, they think they have fallen out of love, they think the grass is greener on the other side, etc, it is all part of the fog... when reality comes back, and I believe it will, my hope is that she will realize that she still loves you. I think the best advise is to give her what she wants, if she wants to be single, to not be a full time parent, etc, let her go, I believe that it will come back to bite her.
Hang in there..<p>Wallace, Petvet, RMA - thanks for your prayers and kind words... each day seems to get better, I believe we are truely on the road to recovery this time... we went to chuch on Sunday as a family, first time in almost a year, what a great feeling.
The kids are so happy to have both of us there in the morning when they get up, our littlest one doesn't know who to hug in the morning, he has not seen both of us there in the morning since he was 6 months old so this is like brand new to him.
Take care and God Bless,
Dave

You all seem so strong, how do you do it. My H had an affair for 14 months with a coworker. She has moved to another state but they still communicate through email and by phone. He tells her that he wants to move there with her and he tells me that he wants to stay with me. He said he wants to keep his options open with her in case I throw him out. I would like to throw him out but I am afraid to lose him. I am about to try some tough love.

Dear Wallace:<p>Sorry to interrupt this thread and I know this is MB, however you have significant issues that most of us do not face.<p>a) Theft of family assets. Forgery etc<p>b) Abandonment<p>c) Lies to third parties of crimes on your part.<p>d) The potential for further crimes (because of drugs or whatever) that could effect your own credit standing or family assets.<p>It is important for your kids and yourself that you finalize complete financial and custodial separation now. Get CS as required by law from W.<p>You are in protect the family mode right now.<p>If W comes to her senses and you so desire you can both rebuild. You must protect your family now<p>Just my two cents<p>My prayers go out to you and your kids.<p>Jack

Willmakeitwork,

Thank you for your input concerning my situation.

You are right about what I am facing and have been involved with... it is quite significant.

To answer your question bout CS, and the like.

Temp.orders have already been put in place by the Courts. Of course collecting CS is a whole other matter. I am waiting to hear from attorneys as far as the next court date as of this moment for the final hearing.

There are safeguards in place as we speak, to protect my family. They are my #1 priority as far as their well being is concerned.

Still working on the Credit card and forgery issues... those are not as easy to clear up unfotunately as most of the other items were.

Thank you for your 2 cents worth, it is appreciated.

Wallace

elainernt,

I can only speak for myself on being so strong while going through my situation.

In my case, I have no choice but to Stay Strong!

I have my children to take care of. I have no choice but to gather up everything I have in order to maintain.

I give my thanks to the God for that. Without his guidance, I'm not so sure I would or could make it through all of this.

In regards to your situation, I would work on Plan A with your H, before I would even think of going to a "Tough Love" approach.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Dave,

Thank you for the response.

I'm in agreement with what you, Petvet, and RMA had stated about the continuing with the D.

It seems all of our S's, have some of the very same characteristics, mine just took her way of dealing with problems to the farthest extreme.

Keep up the good work Dave, glad things are still working.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

RMA: Well well well, I finally found out what W wanted to talk about. She called me this morning and wanted to schedule a meeting. BINGO! Do I know my W or what? She wants me to meet with her to finalize an agreement. She says I am dragging things out. She wants this thing finish, now.I told her with some reservation that I would listen to what she had to say, but I could not guarantee her that I would agree to anything until I heard what she had to say. She got angry and said that it would be a waste of her time to meet with me and not obtain an agreement. I said that's your decision. Listen everyone, SHE WANTS ME TO AGREE TO SOMETHING WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT'S ON THE TABLE. I was sooooooo insulted. OK, I have cooled down.<p>Elainenrt: Think things though, set your boundaries (what you will and will not accept), give WS a choice, and based on his choice you act accordingly. Be firm. Let him know you are all business.<p>When you are involve in this stuff, you have to be strong to survive. <p>Willmakeitwork: Good advice to Wallace. I agree 100%.<p>Dave: Thanks.

Wallace: Get ready. She may try to use this against you in court. I hope you have alot of evidence against her. She wants sympathy from her family amd friends. She is trying to hide her stuff, and MI has brought her story, apparently. I would not have any contact with MI, period.<p>GET READY. Money, money, money, she intends to come in through the back door. Watch you back. Protect yourself, buddy.

Petvet,

Keep dragging your feet... and don't agree to anything your W wants until you read it first... and then foot drag your feet some more, until you are absolutley sure it's something you can live with and want to do.

I agree with you on my stbxw trying to come in through the backdoor on me. How could Iexpect anything less at this stage.

I have plenty of evidence against WS concerning the things she has done, and I think that is why she is trying to bring this lie of hers to life.
If I did half the things she is contending I did, I would be sitting in jail as I speak right now.

It's a very low blow, and she won't get away with it in Court.

She is so use to lying all the time, you would think that at some point in her life she would grow up, and start telling the truth for a change and start living in reality.

My children know that I have never physically harmed my wife ever. They volunteered to testify in Court on my behalf that it is a lie she has created, that it has never ever happened. My children know, they live in the same house and have for a very long time. They know what has gone on in our home.

It's my opinion, that she is going to use that lie, to try to minimize the evidence we have against her. I unfortunately have plenty.

Petvet, don't you just hate being right sometimes. You knew that your W had something to talk to you about that you probably were not going to like. I'm sorry that your situation didn't take a turn for the better.

You need to watch yourself as well, it looks like things are going to start to heat up.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Petvet, I agree with Wallace that things may heat up with your situation, protect yourself but try to keep your temper with WS. When she asks for things that are unreasonable, sounds like this is already starting, simply keep your cool and calmy state that you cannot agree to this... remember my
W (WS at the time) asked me to pay for her to get her tubes ties, obviously so she could have unprotected sex with OM. How insulating to me! It is hard to keep your cool when you get these outragious requests but do it anyway, you will be better in the long run and you can probably expect some outragious things when they are in the fog.
Take care Dave

Petvet,<p>Gosh - what a revolving door your W is going through. She just runs around in circles!!! I agree with everyone on this one - don't agree to squat unless it runs through your lawyer and you know what you are commiting to. I am sorry - but if things don't turn out to your W's advantage....well, that is just a consequence of her bad choices, so too bad for her! You are a good man and a great father. To copy Wallace, stay the course, friend!<p>Wallace, you have your head screwed on straight about this entire mess. God bless you - you see all of your W's issues and you still care so much even though you hurt so much. To me the true test of love is that your mate does not have to be perfect....truly, none of us is....but that she would feel remorse for hurting you, the children and most of all HERSELF. I pray for your W as she is in dire need of many, many prayers. You are doing great despite all of your hurts and disappointments.<p>davepr, So happy to hear things are continuing to go well! I am really, really pulling for you guys to be one of MB's best success stories!!!!<p>elaine and will make it thru this, welcome to this humble thread. \<p>Elaine, all I can say is that you will make it through this. Do your best Plan A and also do your best to be respectful and tryt o meet all of yout H's most important EN's. This is what you can impact - your own actions and nothing more. <p>willmakeitthroughthis, you gave Wallace some sound legal advice - thanks! It isa hard to fight the urge to want to help the one you love and have loved for so long. But at some point, one must learn to be responsible for themselves and no amount of "assistance" for another will really help at all. Hope that things are going well for you,<p>RMA

Hello All,<p>RMA,<p>I just want to thank you for your kind words and Prayers for my W. You know my heart concerning my situation.
I had to finish signing the final disclosure papers today at my attorneys today. I had to laugh to myself while siging them, I'm the only one disclosing anything concerning this D. It just doesn't seem fair, but what are you going to do.
While signing the papers today, I finally decided to let go... of my marriage as sad as I am to say.
So we are going to be rolling here for the final hearing in the not to distant future.<p>Dave,<p>Whatever your doing, keep doing it. I have to agree with RMA, I think you are going to be one of the happy ending stories on these boards. I'm truly happy for your success on having your W back with you. It's like a whole new beginning, and for that I'm pleased for both you and your W.<p>Petvet,<p>I have you in my prayers as well, I know you will fight for your M like I did. I can only pray that your outcome will turn out better than mine. Let God lead your path.<p>Elaine,<p>You can stay strong as well, it's a tough fight that we all face. But if you have the resolve to put the MB practices in place you can salvage your M.<p>WillMakeItWork,<p>Thank you for the sound legal advice, your advice was heeded.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>