Hi everyone,
I am back after a week offf work and a family vacation to the beach. Glad to see eveyone is dong well given the situations.... Hope everyone had a good fourth....

Wallace, I am not surprised to hear about your stbxw's family... that does explain somethings...
I think if your stbxw is calling and asking about you then there are still some feelings there but unless she ever gets to the point that she deals with her issues then there is no hope. I pray that your pending D snaps her out of this mess she has created for everyone..

Petvet, sorry things are not changing for you.... there was something I read in your post from last week about your WW coming over to do laundry, etc, is there anyway that your lawyer can prevent her from doing this? I know the house is still hers but given the situation can you do
a propertly settlement or anything? Your WW has not yet seen reality, maybe it will take a D for her to see it, not sure but she still has it too good right now. Hang in there..

Things are still going well on my end, we had MC this AM, the session went well. My biggest issue is trying to let go of the past and move forward, I am struggling to do this but I know that if our marriage is to work I need to forgive and move forward but it is a very difficult thing to do.

Take care,
Dave

Dave,
It's good to hear that things are moving forward with your "M".
I can relate to what you are saying, "not being able to put things in the past".
I know that would be my major stumbling block. With all that you know, and I know with our W's I'm sure it is very hard to block that out.
For me, I don't think I could get past it... but that's just me... to much damage done.
Keep up the good work Dave.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

davepr,

You wrote:My biggest issue is trying to let go of the past and move forward, I am struggling to do this but I know that if our marriage is to work I need to forgive and move forward but it is a very difficult thing to do.

RMA response: Dave, it will likely take a long time to work through this issue, but it can be done. Your feelings of resentment might even get worse before they get better, so now that your W is home, you might relax a bit and "allow" yourself to really feel what is deep inside of you. It takes a long time to get over these feelings, dave. Just keep trying. If your heart is true about wanting to forgivr, the forgiveness will come in due time. I admire you and your W very much. I never expected perfection in my own marriage - just persistance and caring. Both of your efforts for your marriage will not be wasted, no matter what the outcome of your reconciation attempts.

Wishing ytou both much love and success, RMA

Hi guys and gals! I'm back! Kid and I had a blast in Florida over the holidays. I had to literally drag kid off the beach to get home. Wifey wanted to go on the trip as well but could not get off work. She complained again that I was taking her time away from kid this past weekend. Dave, the anwser to your question as to whether I could keep wifey from the house is no. She is part owner and she can come and go as many times as she wants anytime she wants and there is not a d--- thing I can do about it until an agreement in signed-sealed-and delivered. She has it made. We have a child support hearing next week and I cannot wait. As I have said before, she has yet to feel the consequences. You know, I'm like Wallace, I'm not to sure I want her back. The only way I will accept her back is unless she makes a decision to be marriage to me regardless of my imperfections. Once someone decides that they want to be marriage, then problems can be resolved and the marriage can be saved; otherwise, it's a waste of time. Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person. Like Wallace's W, my wonderous beauty has many issues that I am not going to deal with unless she is committed to doing what's best for the marriage and will STOP doing things that hurt the marriage. I don't mean to come off as though I don't have issues, but I try to acknowledge my problems and resolve them so that they don't hurt the marriage. I am willing to forgive my wife, but she has to repent and acknowledge what she has done.

Dave, keep up the hard work. As long as she is willing to work with you, stay with it.You will never forget, but she will never forget what she did to you and the kids either. Once you and her have fill up your love banks, you will think less and less about the other guy and what he did. Love is much more than a physical thing. You have all of her; the OM(the loser) just had his three minutes. Maybe this will make you and your W bond stronger than ever before.

RMA, how is LOVEVILLE for you? Did you cook over the holiday's? Tell me a little of the menu. I know had a large array of tasty meats, vegetables, etc. Oh! my okra is growing nicely. My melons have yet to show any promise. As I was driving down I-75 last week in south Georgia, I past farms that had melons so large you could see them from the interstate.

Wallace, you are going to be OK. RMA was right. You can proceed with your D even though WW is trying to throw you a curve. You and I seem to be in the same boat.

Thanks everyone.... RMA, you are totally correct, my resentment is getting worse... I think that I fought for so long to get my marriage back, and now that I have it back my focus has shifted from fighting for the marriage to dealing with what has happened. I know that time will make things better, we are doing well, establishing some good communications lines, and accepting that neither of us are perfect, the marriage will never be perfect, but we will work on the issues instead of running from them, learn from our mistakes, and try to make things better.

Petvet/Wallace, I agree that you should not even consider working on your marriage, given the opportunity, unless your WS does a 180 and commits to working on her issues and working on and accepting the marriage as per your vows. I am still in shock at how quickly my W did a 180, I am not sure if this is typical or not for a WS but once she started coming out of the fog she came out as fast as she went in. Yesterday in MC, she talked about how the entire A seems like a nightmare,that it wasn't her, that her mental state was so bad, that she can not believe she did what she did, how the OM brain washed her into thinking this was the right thing to do, etc. RMA, do you know if this is typcial for a WS after she comes out of the fog? Is the Fog really an alterned mental state? My W is on 10mg of Paxil, this seems to be helping her alot, she started taking the Paxil about 1 month prior to ending the A... I wonder how much this drug helped her? Our MC stated the the Paxil gave her enough mental stability for her to think clearly and determine what she needed to do, the MC suggested that she stay on the Paxil for atleast 1 year to give us time to work out our issues and her issues.

Take care,
Dave

Hi All,
Just a little update on my "D".
Talked with attorneys yesterday. They said they are just going to have the courts send her notice of the next trial date to her last known legal address. It's legal and it's binding... since it is her responsibilty to inform the courts of her whereabouts at all times.
If she doesn't show... the attorneys say I could possibly win big... even though there really isn't any real winners when it comes to a "D".
We are moving forward with or without her.
Petvet, It's unfortunate that are WW's have so many issues to deal with. I like you am not perfect. Had my WW stopped the nonesense and truly was remorseful... then there might have been a chance to save the "M". That is not the case, and I'm sure someday it is all going to come to a head... and when it does it will be ugly... at least for her.
Dave... If you can stay committed to your "M", you will be one of the success stories on these boards... stay the course.
RMA... As always, your advice is so very valuable, and I thank you for your input.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Petvet,

You wrote: Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person.

RMA response: WOW!!!!! This is the TRUTH!!!!!! Petvet, you continue to amaze me! The clarity of your thoughts is definitely there. I concur with this sstatement. You seem to have condensed it all into one little, poignant sentence. Just....WOW!

Glad you had such a good time in FL with your son. As for me and my man - all is well, and thanks for asking. We had a quiet 4th. We were supposed to go to FL and it got cancelled at the last minute due to his job. We ate with friends, but I brought the hamburgers to BBQ, the appetizers (chips and dips) and a delicious shrimp remoulade as a salad. I also made and brought a homemade carrot cake, which is my one of my favs. I'm baking a banana cake right now - another one of my favs!

dave, it all sounds just normal reaction to me. Yes, you have focused so long on winning her back and now she is there. The good news is that you can "see" so much right now and you both are in counselling, so you get the added beenefit of an unbiased person to guide you along. Keep up the good work!

Wallace, I did think you could likely go through with the D even withoput knowing your W's whereabouts. I can tell you are somewhat conflicted about it....heck, I really think that is normal. You spend years trying to become "one" and learning to live together in harmony. It is hard to give up and uncleave. Your best efforts for your W are prayers for her and for you to go on as best you can to be the stable influence in the lives of your children. You never know....some WS's do "come around" even after divorce. All the more important to get your own life together, because it is needed by you and your loved ones, no matter what happens in the future. Just know that you ARE worthy of much love and respect.

My best to all of you, RMA

Hi All,
Gald to hear that everyone had a good 4th of July.
RMA,
That was an excellent statement that Petvet had made as far as Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person.
In my support group they state that Love is a gift that we can choose to give to the person we so choose, or we can take the gift of love away as well. I have chose to take my gift away.
As this "D" was moving forward, I was reluctant during the process, but that has changed. I do want to get this "D" rolling asap. I do not have any reservations left at this stage. I am committed to move forward and not turn back under any condition... that is my resolve, with the full backing of my children.
I'll keep you updated as things progress.
May God Bless you All!
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Wallace, your statement about withholding your goft of love from your W really struck a chord with me. You know lately I have been wanting to share my love with someone who will appreciate what I have to offer. You are right. Why give love to someone who does not either appreciate it nor wants it? I have some hope left for my marriage, but only a small hope. I really feel sorry for you and your kids Wallace. You have been devastated. As a single parent, it is hard as hell going through all this stuff. I have one kid, so I can imagine what you are going through with all your kids. It gets exhausting thinking about this stuff; even when you try to get it out of your mind, it stays with you. You know Wallace, I am glad you and I are not our wives because it must be a miserable existence. Wallace, I ask that you pray and hug your kids and maintain your support system. I also recommend that you take time each day to just sit by yourself and gather your thoughts. It really helps me. Take care of yourself.

Later.

Petvet,
With what is happeneing in our lives, it is very difficult to stop and take time for yourself. I find a little time right before I go to bed for the evening.
I thank God for the blessings that he has bestowed on myself and my children, as well as say prayers for all of us who have had our lives turned upside down due to the actions of our spouses. Make no mistake about it, my family had been devastated by the actions of my WW... but we are slowly putting our lives back in order. It's a long and hard road to recover from all that has happened... but with the help of the Lord... we will make it.
Petvet, I know that you are holding on to your "M" with the hope that your "W" will snap out of it, and come to her senses. I pray for you that she will. Put it in God's hands, and let him lead your way.
In my case there comes a time that you know in your heart it is time to take your gift of love back, and move forward.
My STBXW does not deserve the gift that I had given her for so many years.
Someday I will find someone that will truly appreciate the gift of Love that I have to offer.
I am not going to give my gift of Love to someone who does not want it, nor appreciates it.
About assuming the role of both father and mother with 3 kids... you bet it's hard as hell, as you well know. But the Love my children have for me, knowing that I am there for them... makes it all worth it. Under the circumstances I wouldn't have it any other way.
With God's blessings to all of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Wallace, Dave, and RMA: Late Wednesday night, I received a call from my attorney telling me that I had a mediation hearing to discuss child support case I brought against my W on Thursday afternoon. She sure gave me a lot of advance notice. Anyway, to make a long story short, we have come to a temporary agreement on support, visitation, and medical bills. W was furious about having to pay 17% of her gross salary to me. Keep in mind that she has given me nothing since she lefted even after I asked her for help. In my state, the law says that child support for one kid is 17%-23% of gross income. Most judges will give 20%. W is angry at the prospect of having to pay 20%. She says that she may have to get a part time job; the mediator said told W that she may have to find part time work to meet her obligations. My big question is visitation which I finally got everyother weekend, but the mediator threw in a overnight stay for the kid at the W's place. I am concern about that because I do not want kid going from one place to the other like a yo-yo.What do you guys think? I think W is possibly looking for a way to discredit me so that she can get custody of the kid. She was very angry after leaving the meeting.I am very leery of her. She complains that I do not put the kid to bed early enough. She thinks that he should always be in bed by nine o'clock. She does not think I am feeding him correctly. She says that I do not listen to her. How do you think I should handle this? I think she may try something to discredit me because she does not want to pay that money.

Let me know what you think.

Petvet,

PLEEEEEZZZ! I could almost gag when I wrote your W's concerns about your parenting skills. If she was THAT concerned for how her child was going to be raised, she would not have abandonded him by moving out without him. What a farce!!!

Look, in reality, I know she loves and cares about her child. Truly, I do. Yet, this entire thing is still about HER. She wants to call the shots even if she is the one who left.

Listen to her concerns, Petvet, and then ask yourself HONESTLY if they have an merit. Get a few opinions from trusted family members and friends or even your son's counselor, if you have any doubts. If you can improve yourself in any way as a parent, by all means do try to do so. If the feedback you get from your own gut and from others is that you are doing a fine job with your son and his meals and bedtime are age-appropriate, then just IGNORE her.

I go back to something I believe is almost universally true about affairs: they occur in most cases because the WS is feeling out of control of their own lives. The affair is a situation in which the WS gets to CONTROL things. Look at most of the folks on this board. They divorce and yet the power struggles continue on, and oftentimes at an even greater or frenzied pace than before the divorce. Your role will be, as much as possible, to NOT PLAY THE GAME. Hard, hard to do.

Just keep doing the best you can for your child.
No parent is perfect. What your child will reflect upon later is that you were there and you did do the best you could. Isn't that how most people feel about their own parents????

Just keep being YOU. You come across as a loving and dedicated parent. If your W wanted to raise her child a certain way, then she should never have left. Period.

RMA

<small>[ July 12, 2002, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</small>

Petvet, sorry for your situation... I have been there and can hopefully help. Since we were legally seperated in NC, we went through the propertly settlement, alimony, child support, child custody, etc. RMA advise is right on the money!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">W was furious about having to pay 17% of her gross salary to me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, about time she got some reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She says that
she may have to get a part time job; the mediator said told W that she may have to find part time work to meet her
obligations. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even better, more reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am concern about that because I do not want kid going from one place to the other
like a yo-yo.What do you guys think? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We ended up with joint custody, 50% overnight for me and 50% to her. For the fist 7-8 months I had the kids for 11 out of 14 overnights, for the last 2-3 months she lived up to her obligation for 50%. My kids are 1.5 and almost 4. I was also very concerned about my children and going back and forth, I even spoke with a IC that deals with children, my IC put me in touch with her. Overall, my children did very well with the situation, they were alot more resiliant that I thought. My D would ask for me when she was with the W and visa versus but that was too be expected.
I think the situation is harder on the adults than the children, I missed mine so much when she had them but then I learn to appreciate them even more when I got them back. The nights without them gave me some free time to focus on myself, reading, going to divorce care, etc.
Overall, I would not be too concerned about the children as long as they have to parents that love them and take good care of them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> think W is possibly looking for a way to discredit me so that she can get
custody of the kid. She was very angry after leaving the meeting.I am very leery of her. She complains that I do not
put the kid to bed early enough. She thinks that he should always be in bed by nine o'clock. She does not think I am
feeding him correctly. She says that I do not listen to her. How do you think I should handle this? I think she may try
something to discredit me because she does not want to pay that money. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think that she would really want the kids 100%? I know my W could not handle them when she was in this state of mind. She was just lashing out at me, I was also told that I did not listen and didn't do things right. Just because you do not do things exactly as the WS would do does not make them wrong. I would just reply to her either of two way:
" I am sorry that you feel that way" or "I am doing the best I can". Other than that, don't get into it with her, it will do no good. Just keep repeating these lines to her if she wants to debate it, she is trying to get a reaction from you, don't give it to her.

Hang in there, this is the really tough part, it will get better.
Take care,
Dave

Petvet,
I agree whole heartedly with RMA.
Your wife is very angry right now because she is starting to feel some of the repercussions from her actions. I guess they should look past the moment before they go off on their tangents.
She is indeed upset, especially if she has to get a second job to meet her "CS" obligations... that may cut into her play time... they don't like their play time taken away at any cost.
Your wife does appear to be wanting to take control of the situation based on the custody issue... I would walk a very straight line.
She will be looking for anything at all to trip you up in order to relieve herself of her present situation.
My STBXW is going to flip when she gets hit with all the past due payments regarding CS payments. I'm moving to have her wages garnished.
Our STBXW's should of taken a deep breath, and thought about what they were getting ready to do. When they walked out that door, and abandoned their children.
As long as we look after our children and take their best interest into consideration, IMHO they gave up their right to dictate anything concerning the raising of our children when they walked out that door.
Your going to have your hands full on this one, with probably more to follow in the not too distant future.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ July 12, 2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Well guys and gals, it has gotten even weirder. Wifey called me at work to tell me that she would not be able to pick kid up this weekend because she needs to get herself together.

Hmmmmm?

Wallace, Take it to her. I feel like a load has been lifted from my shoulders. These WS are something else.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I have really gotten a real charge from her anger. THERE IS A GOD.

Later.

Petvet,

OK< she needs to get herself together. What a telling statement. Only people who feel like things are spinning "out of control" make statements that they need time to get themselves together. I think my suspicion has just been confirmed.

I loved Dave's and Wallace's observations. Yes, she just hit the ole reality wall - rather smashing her going 90 mph!

Consequences don't always feel too good, and she is starting to feel some negative consequences. I would definitely say she is mightily uncomfortable with her current position and she needs the time to think things through. I'll wager that you will be receiving more calls soon -really soon.

The other side of the fence ain't as green as she thought!

Have a lovely evening, RMA

RMA, you are probably right the one hand, but I think she also wants the time to console with the other guy. I still believe that he is in the picture in some way,fashion or form. I believe he is her soulmate as far as planning and strategy and of course love. She wanted to have Friday and Saturday nights to be with him. That's my guess or she is getting feedback from somewhere else. I knew that she had been having it too good. I knew that once the consequences started to hit home and her actions were judged by impartial people that she would start to really feel the heat. I knew it would start with money. She loves money. She loves to spend. She does not like working part time because she has tried it before during our marriage. If her parents help her financially, she will probably continue in her fog. My in laws helping financially, especially the father in law, is a definite possibility. It would not surprise me if she tries to go to other guy to rack on his sympathies to see whether he will help her financially.THAT'S THE BIG ISSUE NOW, "MONEY". She knows that she will probably get hit for more money by my attorney and the courts; and you know something, SHE'S RIGHT. Check this out: she has this male friend who she has known for years even before she met me.This knucklehead would call the house, page her, and call her on her cell phone to talk to my wife on a regular basis. I never like it that much
because I thought it was inapropriate. Well, she recently told me that "El Stupid" got a girl pregnant and was working three jobs. If my memory serves me correct, this guy has no car. I think she also told me that this guy is thirty five years old. Now this is one of her confidants. This will be one of the people she will be talking to this weekend and probably getting advice. I think she told me a while back that this guy (or some long lost buddy) came back on the scene and wanted to pile on her; She told me this in one of her glorified moments while discussing her adultery.

You know something, I still am thinking about my kid. He is caught in the middle of this mess. He wanted to know why mom did not pick him up. I just try to make him as happy as possible without spoiling him. It's a tough balance.

Thanks for your comments, RMA.

Petvet,Keep up the good work,especially with your son. It sounds like she is spinning out of control right now and she may have to do that in order to want to start to dig herself out of this mess. Sounds like she is not going to get any good advise from this other OM. If the OM is still in the picture,and my guess is yes, this
will now start to strain their relationship, reality will set in for her and for their relationship, hopefully she starts to figure
some things out and finds out that the grass is not greener on the other side. It is not to hard to have a relationship with anyone when you are living in fantasy land. Hang in there.
Dave

Petvet,

I hope your FIL does not financially bail out your W for the long haul. If so, he would be doing her a disservice.

Yes, the OM may still be in the picture. You know, it doesn't matter what kind of guy he is to one extent - she has to stand up and stand for your marriage all by herself. His bad counsel should be revealing to her - that he is a person who makes bad choices. I am still praying for you, friend.

davepr,

How is the reconciliation going? In particular - any bad withdrawal for your W??

RMA