Wallace, glad to hear your got your court date, it will be here before you know it, I also liked your phrase.. that is a classic... glad the see you are still doing well... your MIL is right about one thing, your STBXW will have to answer to GOD and it is a shame for all that she has done...

Petvet, I stongly agree with Wallace regarding getting involved with other people right now, although it may ease some of your pain, it could potentially make things worse, especially if your WS comes back, now you are involved with someone else and someone is going to get hurt. Not saying that you don't have the right to do this but you have made it so long, hang in there until the end, it will be better that way all around.. Stay stong...

Avondale25, sorry to see your story...are you having any contact with your STBXH? You said he moved out of state, how far way? what do you know about he OW?

Take care,
Dave

Dave

Guys you misunderstood what I meant concerning filling the gap; I must did not make myself clear. I'm not getting involve with anyone anytime soon. I need a clear head and to get back on track. I would be making a bad mistake. No No No No, I am not getting involve with anyone.

Wallace: I wonder why your MIL changed her mind about your W. hhhhhhhhmmm! Interesting. You may be hearing from your W soon.

Dave: How are things going?

Later.

Petvet...
O.K., I was just checking... didn't want you to go out and do something you might later regret.
Why do you think my STBXW is going to call soon?
My MIL only confirmed what I've already known. I don't think she could believe it. I think she does now. It's a lot to swallow, make no mistake about it. The "A" is one thing, then you add everything else and "WOW".
Dave... It was good to hear from you. Hope everything is going well.
I've seen three "M" turnaround in the last 3-1/2 months, and for that I'm glad.
Keep up the good work, and stay the course.
RMA... I always look forward to hearing from you. I have much respect for the advice you give everyone.
Avondale... If you read this, there are a lot of wise people on these boards. Feel free to share, I'm sure you will find that it helps.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Wallace: Also, I am still married. I still respect the institution. I am still wearing my ring. I still have hope though very minimum. I think your wife will contact you because her buddy(mommy) has figured things out. Her only chum now is the OM; she has a lot to loose. My guess is she will probably start getting very nervous because her lifeline is being pulled away. October is a long time when it comes to changing minds.

Later.

Petvet,
I'm with you as well... I'm still married too.
I took my vows very seriuosly, and I walk the walk as well.
My STBXW took my wedding band and sold it, so I don't have to worry about wearing it ever again.
I still have my original wedding band (the one I had placed on my finger by my wife during our wedding vows), but I can't place that back on my finger (the pain would be to much to bear).
I keep it in a special place though.
October is a long time and many things can happen. However, I don't see the plans that are in the works changing.
I do see a glimmer of light for you on the horizon... it's a gut feel.
Maybe I can be around for a fourth "M" being turned around. I sure hope so!
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Petvet,

Hey, I'll need to get you a dictionary and a thesaurus, teehee! Really, that is probably the problem with your melons. Could also be the drought/water ban. I do sneak and water my garden and flowers. But, my grass is in terrible shape.

Well, I sure could relate to the loneliness you are feeling. I no longer feel that way, but BOY OH BOY, did I ever feel awfully lonesome during my exH's affair. It's like you are SOOOOOO ready to give your love and your newly improved self to your spouse, yet they turn away from all that you have to offer. But, eeverything has a time and a place, and you aren't ready yet, Petvet. Just keep being the wonderful person you are. Chat here. It isn't the same, but try to fill your lonely times with friends and family. One day all of this awful mess will be sorted and you will be emotionally ready to be a great companion and mate to either your W or to another woman, if that is your choice. Trust me, when all is said and done, if you desire it, God will bring love into your life again. It just takes the dreaded time and patience.

Wallace, gosh why the long wait for the court date? I would have thought they could move this thing along sooner. But, it may give your W more time to reconcile herself with the "new reality". You are so kind to help the MIL. Try as best you can not to react or say anything to her comments, as she may also repeat things to your W and they may come back differently than originally said by you, if you know what I mean.

davepr, How was the family vacation? Hoe are YOU managing things??

avondale, feel free to join in.

Take care all, RMA

RMA: My area is getting a fairly good amount of rain. The grass is going well. I am going to call the extension service to see whether they may be able to recommend something for the melons.

Wallace: I just have a feeling that your W will make contact. She will get her real reality when she is hit with a child support order,etc. As far as I am concern, she is still living in a dream world. By the way, how does she support herself? It was really low for her to sell your wedding ring.

Later.

Hey all
Here's a synopsis of my story....I live in NC and work for a church -where my husband USED to be an upstanding member. Three yrs ago he was accepted into a prestigious doctoral studies program from an ivy league college (in NY). The crux of the program is that they live there for the summer and then do online courses during the school year. Last summer (2001) he had an "epiphany" and realized that he doesn't want to be married to me. (I realize things were rough but had never thought that could happen TO ME.) When he came back at the end of summer, I figured out he was having an EA with another student (she's older!) and confronted him, he admitted it, and we began marriage counseling.

September 2001 was our 25th anniversary. We belatedly celebrated this event in January by going to the Caribbean. He quit going to counseling in early spring, 2002, and told me in May that he no longer wanted to be married to me. At that time he also re-contacted the OW and began the EA again while he lived in our house and I did Plan A for all I was worth. Since our daughter was getting married at the end of June, we agreed to not tackle the separation issue until after her wedding so she would have happy memories of the wedding day and so it would not be awkward for our families.

The night after her wedding (didn't waste any time, did he?!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , he told me he had already contacted a lawyer and rented an apt. here in town. He left the next week for classes in New York where the OW is and I'm sure by now their EA has turned into a PA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . We're working through the technicalities of separation this month, with finances and other legal work. I also need to confront him when he returns for good in mid-August to get the rest of his personal stuff out of the house - his clothes, books, etc. are a constant reminder of him and that's hurting me. (He flies back to town almost every weekend to work but so far has not "had time" to get more stuff.) He still wants to be "my friend" but I can't transition from a wife of 25 yrs to a friend like he seems to be able to do. I have a great group of solid friends from church who are supporting me, but to be honest, I'm the first person we know personally who's had to go through this. Guess that makes me a pioneer, huh?

I'm glad your posts are public. I'm learning a lot through them, and its always GOOD to know I'm not the only one going through this!

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

HI everyone, the vaction was good, the W and I had a great time at my 20 year class reunion, we also went horseback riding and took the kids to the zoo. We spent alot of time visiting family and friends. Things are still going well for us, no contact from OM since my little e-mail to him. I think things are starting to get easier, I am thinking less about them two being together, hopefully those thoughts continue to fade in time.

Wallace/Petvet, I still have some hope for your Ms, although your Ws will have to demonstrate alot to you in order for you to even consider it... I pray for you and for your WS. I know it will all work out one way or the other, as RMA stated, when you are ready, God will send someone into your life... I truely belive that, that one one of the principle in Divorce Care.

Avondale25, sorry to hear your story, you are pratically my neighvbor, I am in Raleigh NC. Have you tried plan B with your WH? I know it is hard to think that they may be having a PA... when I was in that situation, instead of thinking about them to being together and getting myself upset, I tried to take a more positive approach... Most A will die, about 90-95%, so everytime they were together I viewed it as a step closer to their A ending, when I found out that they were going away for the weekend, instead of being upset, I was encouraged, I knew it was just another step in the process. Hang in there, sounds like you have a good suppport system.
Take care,
Dave

Hi All,
RMA... I'm not sure why the Court date is pushed so far back. It was designed to be on a fast track program that the Courts had initiated... called "Divorce with Dignity". I live in Colorado and according to the State, we have a 65% divorce rate... so they must really be backed up.
Petvet... My STBXW has always had a hard time holding a job. To tell you the truth I'm not sure she is working now, but I believe she is.
I agree with you about her selling my wedding band... she is a real piece of work.
Have you talked with your "W" since your last post?
Dave... Sounds like you had a good vacation, I could sure use one right about now.
I believe that time will heal your pain as far as thinking about the "A" and what visions of it you are probably having. When I would think about my STBXW being with the OM, I would ask God to please take it away, and he did.
Time will ease the pain of it all, and it will get better for both of you.
Stay the course.
Avondale... I'm sorry to hear of your situation.
Your "H" still wanting to be friends with you is not uncommon.
IMHO, I believe there is two lines of reasoning for this.
1. It helps lessen the guilt they have for what they have done if you agree to be their friend. It helps validate their position, that things will be O.K. in spite of what they have done... and you have accepted it by agreeing to still be their friend.
2. It keeps the door open for them in case things don't work out. So long as the lines of communication are still open as friends, it gives them in their minds a fall back position (safety net).
Since you have been working a hard Plan A, I would consider going into Plan B at this point in time and see what transpires.
I have all of you in my prayers.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
For some reason I can't put in any new paragraphs in any of my posts, so please excuse what appears to be a run on process.

<small>[ July 31, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Wallace,

You wrote:"Avondale... I'm sorry to hear of your situation.
Your "H" still wanting to be friends with you is not uncommon.
IMHO, I believe there is two lines of reasoning for this.
1. It helps lessen the guilt they have for what they have done if you agree to be their friend. It helps validate their position, that things will be O.K. in spite of what they have done... and you have accepted it by agreeing to still be their friend.
2. It keeps the door open for them in case things don't work out. So long as the lines of communication are still open as friends, it gives them in their minds a fall back position (safety net).
Since you have been working a hard Plan A, I would consider going into Plan B at this point in time and see what transpires."

I agree with all that you have written here. You are getting good at understanding alot of the psyche of the WS. I also think you have given avondale good advice.

Avondale, sad to say this, but Welcome to the thread. As Wallace said, your H's attitude of wanting to be friends is very common. I do think that Wallace pegged it right on the head of the nail as to why they want to be friends, too.

As to yor situation, if you have done a truly good Plan A, then, perhaps Plan B is in order. It will help to minimize the contact with your H as well as give him the best idea of what life without you is like. Even with sporadic contact, you are likely still meeting some of his needs. It is important at some point to eliminate meeting any needs at all. At some point, it is time for consequences, and Plan B can allow your H to see and feel the absence of you in his life.
Please give this some consideration.

davepr, I am really happy ya'll had such a great vacation! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Gosh, I am just so extra happy that your family is getting another chance, period!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care, all, RMA

Hi guys!

Avondale: Like RMA, I'm sorry you have to be part of this thread. Your situation mirrors ours. It's interesting that you mentioned your husband's stuff still at your house. My lovely, wonderful, considerate, and committed wife (slap-slap on the face, sorry that was an illusion) has alot of her belongings at the house. You name it; clothes(many clothes), hair products, shoes(many many shoes), records (junk junk junk). Now, she manages to take a dress here and a dress there, but for the most part, I still have to look at her stuff everyday. It makes me feel as though she intends on coming back. I agree with RMA that you need to implement Plan B. The sooner you can put the consequences on his shoulders the better. My attorney advised me against a separation because it was a waste of money. What's the point of being separated if you are not working on the relationship. It creates a safety net for the WS.It's like putting the relationship on hold (freeze frame) for a period of time while he experiments with his desires and fantasies. My W tried pulling that separating mess on me. Not! It is really hard when your WS is in another state doing his ugly mess. I'm happy you opened up; we will help you as best we can. When I started on this thread, I could not have imagine the wonderful people who I have shared so much with. It helps when people understand what you are going through. Stay strong. You have a long way to go and some important decisions to make.

Wallace: Boy, if your W cannot hold a job, she is going to have a couple of babies when she realize that she is going to have to help take care of the kids. Sixty-five percent D rate! What's going on in the mountain state? I am very close to putting down money that your W will show up before the court date. As far as wifey is concern, she came over the other day to get kid. She spoke cautiously to me because she knew I did not want to speak to her. When she showed up the following morning, she tried to be very conversational. Even though I have exclusive use of the house, she is still letting herself into the house. She still is not meeting her financial obligations that she agreed to. I am meeting with my attorney today to map out the final nails to my w's coffin. Her ______ is getting ready to hit the fan. She might want to load up on her medication because she will need it.

Dave: Glad to hear everything is still going well.

Later.

Hi All,
My MIL called last night. I didn't answer the phone. I figured she could leave a message on the answering machine when I saw her telephone number come up on the Caller I.D. She didn't leave a message so I guess it couldn't of been very important.
65% divorce rate in this State is what the Parenting Program people had said during our class. We are one of the highest in the Nation, if not the highest.
So if you want to keep your "M", I wouldn't suggest a move here.
Petvet... I still think your "W" is still trying to sort all of this out. She still has her personal effects at your house? IMHO, she has not fully committed to letting your "M" go just quite yet. With her coming over to the house to get this and that, tells me she may want her "M" still. I still hold out hope for your "M"... it's far from over IMHO.
Concerning my STBXW having to pay CS. It is going to hit her hard. When the final hearing comes, and they find out she has not paid one dime to date. I don't think the Judge is going to be very happy with her. Of course we do not expect to see her at the final hearing, so I guess we will just have to start garnishing her checks if she is working after this is all over.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

ooops, sent twice so i'm trying to erase one...will it work? LOL

<small>[ August 01, 2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

OK y'all (southern-speak)
Thanks for the warm welcome. We are still hashing out the separation agreement (which I obviously don't want but must participate in). I am seeing our marriage counselor (alone) this afternoon. He was the one who suggested "Love Must be Tough" book and train of thought. I intend to write a letter to hubby, not exactly a formal Plan B as I've seen here at MB but it fits our situation better for right now. While we're still working out legal separation it seems just a LITTLE too soon for a full Plan B. Please tell me what you think. I plagarized some of it from this site, LOL...

Dear H,

I want to respond to a couple of your recent e-mails. You are so amiable, both in person and through email. It seems you want to still be "friends", but I just can't do that. I cannot immediately transition from being a wife for 25 years to being only a friend. It just isn't normal. Perhaps in the future that might be possible, but for right now, it isn't. That is why I need some space. That is why I haven't replied. I hope you understand.

Another thing I wanted to respond to was something you had written: "as others have said, even though I (H) brought this situation on, both of us were responsible for the unhappy parts of the marriage". I don't know who the "others" are.... but I can't and won't be responsible for that which I am unaware. I still feel very uninformed as to what it was that brought us to this point after 25 years of marriage. All I know are 3 reasons which you've said, none of which seem to be serious enough for action of this nature, and all of which seem to have come about after you began traveling to NYC and working on your PhD.

Your personal notes to me about school are nice but at this point I do not want to know about it. You know I supported you 110% but to continue to be interested in that facet of your life which will no longer be shared with me and will no longer be a part of my future is hurtful. I'm sure there are others around you who are able to be interested in your career.

If you truly want to separate, you need to do just that. Your personal things need to be removed from the house. I feel you have had opportunities over several weekends to get belongings from the house, Sunday mornings for example, but haven't. I would like them to be gone immediately upon your return to Greensboro. They are constant reminders to me of the love that we've shared and continue to pour salt in the wound of my heart.

I hope that you will understand that I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you but to protect my feelings for you and any chance of reconciliation in the future. You must know the pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW, especially while living in our home and sleeping with me. Our relationship has become more distant as you've become more self-centered with your music. (I know this is a LB but it's true!) I feel my love for you slipping away. This total and complete separation needs to be done in order to protect my feelings for you so they don't turn to resentment, and for our future, regardless of whether or not it is together.

I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I am totally open at any time for communication that would pertain to that coming about. Until that time, as you wanted per the separation agreement, you are "free from the interference, authority, and control of me as if you were single".

I loved you when we met, I love you today, and my love for you will last forever. That's a paraphrase of Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever." Please remember that.
Love,

Me
Oops, just hit enter key; hope it didn't send this twice, if so, i am sooooo sorry!

Avondale,
I believe your letter is to the point and well done.
Everybody's situation is different, and if you feel this is this best approach to take at this time... then I would follow through with what you believe is best.
IMHO, you were direct, but you didn't slam the door shut... and that is a wise move on your part.
Always try to keep your options open.
Forward the letter to him, and see what type of a response you get.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Petvet and avondale,

While separated, my thenH also had his "stuff" still at the home. He also continued to use the house office to conduct his job several times each week. While in Plan B, we would run into each other all the time, so it was not effective at first. Eventually, I did do a good Plan B and when I did, I felt great! Not about being separated, but it did help not to have to deal with it all daily. Eventually, I asked him to move his stuff out. This was after we were divorced and he was still using me to store his stuff and using my home as his office, because he and the OW were living together on a 2 room houseboat. He didn't have the space and was using me to supply that.

See how similar so many of the stories are? Point in all of this is that the WS will in many cases, not be the one to sever the cord to the BS. Maybe it is only convenience, as in my case and maybe even the same for avondale, but, Petvet, I think differently in your case. I still do think your W has not totally given up on you and your marriage. That is why she keeps coming around so much.

avondale, the letter is good, but don't expect it to accomplish much of anything. Your H is not open and receptive enough right now to deal with your hurts. Also, he is likely to misunderstand your reasons for asking him to move his stuff. Although you say it isn't punitive, and I do believe that, he will likely be mad and angry because he is going to be inconvenienced. And, you are somewhat upsetting his timetable and his plan. That is how my exH felt. He could never quite get it that I did it for me, not to hurt him. But, then again, at that time, it was ALL about him. Just want you to feel prepared in case he reacts negatively.

Hi, Wallace and davepr!

RMA

Hi all!

Avondale: For the most part, your letter is fine; HOWEVER, I think you are being toooooo nice. Please understand I am just voicing my opinion ,and you have to do what is comfortable for you. While reading your letter, I continued thinking to myself how it appears that you are walking the line rather than being tough and giving your H the impression that he has to make a choice. Right now, I think he may misconstrue your letter in a way that may make him think that he can play with your feelings. He must undertstand that if he does not come back to the marriage and give up the stuff in NY that things are not going to be OK between you and him. You kept the door opened for a friendship, but my opinion is that you need to close the door to that as well because he may think that he can return to you on the rebound in the future. Do you understand what I mean? Tough love is just that, TOUGH. My point is that he must be under the impression that you have cut the cord even though you are feeling the pain inside. It is tough stuff. Outside of that, I think the letter is fine. Once again, please do what is comfortable with you. Your letter is a one time deal in order for it to have any effect, so you have to make sure that you can follow though with it. I still don't like the legal separation idea. He needs to feel the consequences, NOW. You know something, you WS sounds like things are business as usual.

Me: I met with attorney yesterday and she told me that I have everything I need to get what I want.
After I clarify some things with the Tribunal, I may be able to get a court date next month if not late this month. She told me that I may be wasting money to get a deposition because we can get the same thing in court. My attorney pulled off her attorney's hat and asked me whether my W has some psychological issues especially a sexual addiction. She is the fourth or fifth person to ask me that question. She also told me that she has seen an increase in the number of woman leaving their families. She told me that my wife is going to get hit very hard by the judge. My attorney called W's attorney to tell him that if W does not produce the support in full that we will take her to court for contempt plus she has not signed the temp agreement plus her attorney was not aware that she had not met her obligations. Even though I have exclusive use of house, W came by the house again w/o my knowledge including checking my caller ID and mail.

Wallace: I'm telling you something is up. My hand is heading into my pocket.

Later.

Oh PS, has anyone been to Dollywood? Is it worth $34?

Thanks to all for your feedback....

The MC said he thought it was a very good letter for our situation, except to maybe change "If you truly want to separate" to "Since you want to separate" to be more definitive. He also suggested adding "get your mailing address changed" too.

RMA, I am not pinning all my hopes on this letter, but I do think even this will be an eye opener to him because I haven't been very demonstrative or hyper-upset throughout the ordeal...Somehow I just am not worried about this whole situation (maybe God's grace?). I know that no matter what, I will make it through this and be OK.

Petvet, I see your point and I am going to think on the level of toughness today before I send it this evening. You're right, this letter should have maximum impact by itself.
Sounds like you have a perceptive lawyer and that fact should help. I've heard horror stories about lawyers making things more difficult in these cases. I've never been to Dollywood.

Wallace,
My W did the same thing, even after we changed the deed on the house to me. I changed the locks and change the security code on the alarm, told her I did that and if she came in the alarm would go off and she would not be able to turn it off. She even went so far as to hop the fence in the backyard, with the children, so they could play on the swing set. The house was no longer hers, she had no right to it or the yard, Tough Love, she wanted out of the marriage then she doesn't get use of the house, yard, or anything attached. Do what you have to, do it in a friendly way, but do it, keep her out of the house, force more reality for her, she may be at the point where it forces her to start reconsidering if she is not already there.

Also, there is a interesting thread going on on the GQII board, the subject is I am the OM..
you may want to check it out, there is some interesting feedback....

Take care,
Dave