Hi All,
Dave... I think you were posting that info for Petvet. I haven't heard from my STBXW in almost 4 months and counting. I already did what you stated a long time ago, but thanks for the info on it.
I'll check out that post on GQII.
Hope things are still going well for you and your family.
Petvet... I think you need to do what Dave had stated to really let her feel the effects of the whole "Tough Love" approach.
I think it will really set her back into reality if she is completely cut off.
Let her feel the full effect of it all.
If she is going through your house like that... you need to put a stop to it.
With what she is doing, there is no doubt in my mind that she does not want to end the "M" at this point. There is still an emotional attachment there. You don't go through someones personal effects like that... she is checking up on you!
You keep doing whatever you are doing... because she is starting to come around. I feel another "M" being turned around here.
Avondale... Did you send the letter or did you make changes to it?
In a way I have to agree with what Petvet had to say ("Tough Love"), but you know what will work best for you regarding the letter.
RMA... I think you gave Petvet and Avondale some good advice. How are those yummy veggies doing?
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Child Support does bring a wake up call and you do feel the impact immediately. I payed it on my own at first then WW wanted it to be handled by the court and its a sting to the pocket and paycheck.

My now xw has a great thirst for the Love of Money, she tried to gold dig me using the courts.

Since my OD is 18 and out of HS, she will be dropped, will still pay it for YD. I sent modification papers to xw this week to fill out so she should have them Sat or Mon.

Problem now is because of the caseload it will be 6 months before they make modification which will be early next year and because of that this will cause an overpayment to xw and they will either stop CS altogether until it all balances out or make her pay it all back when YD turns 18. Therefore things are starting to backfire on her.

She should have let me continue to pay as I was and agreed because this would have avoided the mess she's about to face now. The amount she's going to get after the modification is the same amount I was paying in the first place.

Paying CS does give you a constant reminder, so good luck with this in getting her attention, she needs some responsibility. Working hard and then having to dish out a big chunk for a motive you're not in agreement with is no fun at all.

I'm curious to see how xw is going to respond now that she's getting over payments, if she was smart she would send it back to CS office or save it which probably won't happen.

Good Luck

Petvet, do what Dave did and change the locks on your house. Your stbxw has a much right to enter the house as a thief does. In fact the thief will only take things of monetary value, while your wife will take things, like information, to use it to hurt you beyond your finances. SO CHANGE THOSE LOCKS ASAP.

<small>[ August 02, 2002, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Hi all! Thanks TooMuchCoffee and Everlasting Compassion for your comments. The reason why I had not change the locks yet is that my attorney told me that I could not do that until I had a temp order in place for exclusive use; however, since W has not signed the agreement yet, I cannot do anything.

Dave: I think Wallace is correct. It sounds like your advice concerning changing the locks was meant for me. I will take a look at the spread about the OM.

Wallace: How are things going? I still have hope for your marriage.

Later.

Petvet/Wallace,Yes,it was meant for Petvet, not Wallace, sorry. I agree with Wallace, she would not be snooping around if she did not care. You need to find a way to cut off the remaining emotional support she is getting, hopefully you and you lawyer can find a way to keep her out of the house. Ask your lawyer what would happen if you changed the locks without the agreement.. she is not paying her A and nothing has happened to her,yet anyway. I feel if you can find a way of breaking these lasts strings, she may come around.

Today would of been 1 year for our legal seperation offical move outdate,meaning tomorow we would of been divorced if things stayed on the same path. I am gland they turned around, feels kida of strange knowing that I could of been divorsed tomorrow....

Take care all,
Dave

Petvet,

I also waited until the house was in my name before I changed the locks. You would be prudent to do as your attorney advises, even though it stinks that she can come and go at free-will. Too bad, because maybe if she showed up one day and the locks were changed, she would get some IMMEDIATE negative feedback. But, anyway, listen to the lawyer on this.

I have not been to Dollywood, but do recommend the Opryland Hotle. It is awesome - especially once the Christmas decorations are up!!

Wallace, I am busy, but the bulk of the garden is in. Still making tomato juice and salsa. Today I cooked some fresh lima beans and made a jambalaya to take to friends for dinner at their house. You sound good, friend.

davepr, EC and Too much coffee,Hello.

avondale, yes, the grace of God does give us the strength we need to face the things we do not want to face. You sound like you have enough faith in God and yourself to weather this storm, no matter how things play out. Keep that great attitude, as you will need it in months to come.

Going swimming soon. Ya'll enjoy your Sunday, RMA

Petvet:

I stand corrected on the changing of the locks, but it is still imperative that you do not leave valuables, especially private information, where she can have access to it. For example you might consider downloading any sensitive information on your hard drive onto a floppy or cd and then deleting it from your computer.

RMA:

I'm glad that you had a wonderful time and just hope that you did not come back more physically exhausted than when you left <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi all,

Yes, I am going to follow the instructions of my attorney. Heck, I just as well since I am paying her a fortune.

RMA: My garden has taken a turn for the worst. The heat is killing my garden plus insects are feisting on my plants. What do you use to keep the multi-legged creatures out of your garden? Does lime work?

TooMuchCoffeMan: Yes, you bet I am on top of things when it comes to my wife snooping around. All important papers especially the ones that relate to the divorce are under lock and key. I also check the house regularly for listening and photographic devices. I am not taking anything for granted. That's one reason I avoid speaking with her on the telephone as much as possible because my attorney has warned me that she may be taping our conversations.I also delete all email and web history from computer memory.

I have a question for all of you. Since my wedding anniversary is coming up within two weeks, would you acknowledge it to my wife or would you just let it go without a mention?

Wallace: Have you taken a vacation or days off lately? You need time away if possible. Getting out of the house can really help clear the head.

Dave: How are you feeling about things? Is you trust coming back? Is she still on track without wavering?

Later.

Hello also RMA and Petvet, hang in there....

Petvet - You mentioned should you acknowledge your anniversary and send a card? Well I wrestled with that question back in Nov 2001 when mine came. I end up sending her a card even though I was 1,200 miles away, why? was she still in the fog, yes and still in it.

I did it because I came across an interesting discovery one day. In May 2001 4 months after she moved I had to go get both YD and OD at W's house, she was out of town. As I was in the house and daughters we're not in the room, I saw a stack of bills banded together with a rubberband, old bills and current bills setting on the table outside a tote bag she carried everyday.

Nosey me I picked it up flip through them [oh bad me] and behold in this stack of bills she was carrying, apology letters from me, love cards, hurtful D-day letters from me, I love you letters, etc, they were worn a little like she read them daily.. when I saw it I was stunned and tears came in my eyes, I couldn't believe it, I said to myself but this is the woman that betrayed me, cheated on me, wanted nothing to do with me, has 5 OM, but yet she's carrying around all this stuff everyday looking at it.

Since I knew now she was doing this, I took a chance on sending her an Anniv. card in Nov because I knew she would tote it around. Since she had filed for divorce in Oct 2001 I feared she would send it back but she didn't. She stalled dv for 1 month after.

I feel I could send her a card today and she'll tote it around and cherish it even though we're Dv'ed, but I wouldn't do that yet because she hasn't hit bottom yet, she'll think I'm validating her actions, OM hasn't done his dirty work enough yet, she's getting their, when she's send me her financial affidavit, it will tell how she's doing financially, her previous job was her god and her car also, it caused her to puff up, she recently changed jobs, but I don't know if she got fired or not. If she's making more, then I'll know she wasn't fired, she would not take less in the financial state she's in.

So sending a card won't get you any short term results but it will be a lasting reminder to her, it'll touch something going on within her that you'll never see, she'll still appear cold as ice, if you send it don't expect anything in return.

I did it also because we weren't dv'ed yet and I didn't want to give her more reason's to use against me through manipulation such as "you ignored our anniv.day".

Everybody has a diff circumstance I planned B her at that point but I also had some inside info too she was carrying info around everyday..

One thing my counselor told me in private after he spoke to both of us, he said despite what she does, she see's me as one that can point her out of the way of darkness, he said her life was though if she was walking in total darkness in a dark room and she saw me as a flash light in a dark place [because of the Lord] he said just let her keep walking until she's lost her way, until then work on you.


..........Good Luck

Hi Y'all
I haven't posted anything because I had thought H was coming home last weekend and I would give him my letter then and maybe have something to report. But he didn't, he stayed in NY. (I guess getting the last few hours he could with OW.) Anyway, he indicated he'd come by tomorrow (I hope) to get mail and my letter will be in there with all this others.

I did modify it a little, but all in all it's the same. I wasn't looking to be totally tough because this may be a little too early in the game. I understood what you meant, Petvet. But I applied it to my personal situation, as everyone does with their own letters and stuff.

I am also curious about the anniversary card issue, our # 26 is mid-September. I'm thinking I might send one, just to be safe and keep that olive branch (and marriage-related communication channels) open.

Thanks again to everyone for your feedback!

Hi everyone..

Petvet, things are still on track for us....the trust is just starting to come back, I think it will take a long time to get most of it back, it will never all come back, atleast not for me... Anyway, thanks for checking, today has been a strange day for me, strange knowing that if I didn't find MB, if the A didn't end, if I wasn't open to taking her back for a 3ed time, I would of been divorced today.

Regarding the card, that is a tough one, if you were doing a strict Plan B or Tough Love I would say no, but again every situation is different. Personally, I would not, I don't know what it would accomplish but you will have to decide what is best for you. This situation is not what you wanted, this was her decision, she knows that you want your marriage to work out. At this point I would try to break all emotional support that you can with her, she needs to hit bottom, if she is still getting some ENs met by you, then this situation is just going to continue. She wants to be divorced, then show her what life is going to be like being divorced. My 2cents anyway, again, every situation is different but I know from my experience the more I cut off support, the more she came around. I remember all the great adivse RMA, and many others gave me here, RMA would get on me for talking to her on the phone, etc.. well it worked in my case and I firmly believe that cutting off the emotional support forced her into reality.

Good luck,
Dave

First off, Hello to Petvet, Wallace, davepr, avondale, EC and TMCM! Nice to have some other folks offering support and opinions, here.

davepr, sounds like things are really starting to click for you and your W. You know what they say....third times a charm!!! I am really happy for you and your family. Just a little reminder - if you need to vent, come here.

avondale, it will be interesting to see if and how your H reacts to your letter. I'll wager that he acts like he never got it.

Petvet, I had beetles eating my bean plants, and used a beetle bag (got it at Home Depot). That helped. Also, had soemthing else on the tomatoes and I unfortunately had to use some sevin dust on the leaves, but it got rid of the bugs. My beans are almost gone but still getting peppers and tomatoes like crazy.

I am conflicted on the idea of the anniversary card. Normally, I would agree 100% with what davepr wrote and said that I would say. Yet, somehow, in your case, I waver. Your W hasn't really been super nasty to you, Petvet.Maybe a simple card that states that you are open to discussion on reconciliation and nothing more. If she isn't open to reconciliation, then what do you really have to celebrate in terms of your wedding anniversary?? But, definitely no gift this time. You have been too thoughtful and too generous and it is time for all that to end unless she can step up to the plate.

EC and TMCM, how are things going with you two?

RMA

Hi RMA.

Everything couldn't be better. I'm doing fine, my girls are doing great, and so is my lady and future mrs TMCM. Sometimes I worry that fate is setting me up for a fall but thankfully those times are few and in-between. Even my xWW has continued with her counseling and treatment for drug and sexual addictions, and is behaving in a much more responsable way towards our daughters.

I guess you might say that there is definetely life after divorce. I just can't beleive it took so long for yours truly to wake up and realize this. Oh well, we live and learn don't we?

Hi all:

RMA: Thanks for the advice on the garden. I have sevin dust and will try it on the plants. I am still frustrated about the melons, but I will live. I have decided to not send W a card for the anniversary next week, what's the point? I need to continue distancing myself from her. My plan has worked so far, so why mess around with something that is working? My mindset is focused on the future and eliminating her from my life. Something funny happened over the weekend. W is away on vacation with the kid. Even before they left town, she had the kid to call me to say goodbye, then on Sunday, she called me and left a message to tell me that they were doing OK and what they were doing. I'm like, what in the heck are you calling me for (that's what I said to myself as I listened to the message). I am looking forward to the future without her.

TooMuchCoffeeMan: Do you have custody of your kids?

Dave: I am getting this weird feeling that my W is going to pull a 11th hour return on me? I cannot take her back without change and PROOF that she has taken a turn for the better.

Avondale: Let us know how hubby reacts to your letter. He may not react at all. If he does not respond to your letter, please do not ask for his response. That's my four cents.

Later.

Hi All,
I'm back... took a day off to get my YD16 registered for school.
Petvet... I think your "W" is going to do a turnaround as well. I've had that feeling for quite some time now. The question is... are you ready for it and how are you going to deal with it?
IMHO, I would not send the card. You have been doing everything right so far. It could be a major "LB" though, by not sending her one but that is a chance you must be willing to take.
Only you can can make that determination as to what is best for you and your situation as it stands at this moment.
If you send her the card it may validate that you still want her back in her mind... hence, she will know where you stand as far as reconciling. It could work against you possibly.
Dave... it's good to hear that you are not getting "D", and your "M" is going well.
You will in time be able to forgive, but don't ever forget. Keep up the good work.
RMA... Sorry to here that your veggies are under a bug attack. I remember fighting that all of last year.
With the watering restrictions we have here, we can barely keep are lawns green, I'm kind of glad i didn't start a garden this year... If I had planted a garden this year it wouldn't have made it.
Tomuchcoffeeman... You give us hope that there is life after "D". I'm glad to hear that you have found another to share with.
That helps a great deal in the healing process.
EC... I wrote my STBXW a letter some time ago. I never heard a word back from her. I didn't expect to hear anything, but it makes you wonder what if anything they may be doing with it.
I wonder why she has it with her all the time. She must still have feelings for you.
When the fog lifts on her, who knows... you may be hearing from her again. I just hope she doesn't drift around in the fog for long.
Avondale... Let us know how your "H" responds to the letter. If he is like most, you probably will not get much of a response, but you never know... it may snap him out of it.
Concerning my situation...my MIL has been calling my house every other day. I have not been answering the phone. I didn't have the answering machine on either, so I don't know what she wants.
Somethings up, not sure what though.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Petvet, it would not surprise me if she does.. the calls, the snooping around,etc, all tell me that she still cares, but she is still probably in the fog. I think the key is that until she comes out of the fog, there can be no recovery. I know now that the first two times my W came back she was clearly in the fog, the withdraws became too great, and she went running back to OM.
I think there are some clear indicators that when the WS comes back if she is ready to start recovery or not, you will know and others will help you look for signs IF you get to this point and decide it is something that you want to consider. Keep up you good work, Dave

Hi Y'all
I got off work early today 'cuz all I could think about was H reading my letter. And he responded by leaving one of his own...here are some excerpts:

I understand you needing space. I will give you the space. I hope when we do need to talk about household, the kids, etc. We can both be civil and "sort of friends". But of course I'm aware of your feelings, and will respect them.

I do intend to remove my personal items as soon as I'm back from NY for good, which will be Aug. 12. But I think we need to talk about what is what so I won't take anything that is not really mine. I will make up a list and email it to you and we can go from there, ok?

And yes, I do understand you are not trying to hurt or punish me. You deserve a full explanation, and I'm trying my hardest to come up with words that will explain my inexplicable actions (at least in your eyes). For the present, just know that I only rejected those other people's [i.e.,counselor, pastor, family members] advice after I found it wasn't working (note from me: he only tried for 6 months). I did not make this decision lightly; there were (and are) risks in it for me. I have alienated practically everyone who cares for me; they all think I am crazy and just having a mid-life crisis. And yet, I still made the decision I did, and I still think it was right.

I realize that my situation isn't quite as "dire" as others I've read about here on MB. No abuse, no financial shenanigans (yet), no young children, just a husband who is self-centered and somewhat lost in his own world for the time being. Anyway, this letter from him gives me hope, somehow.

To all, just have a sec this morning.

avondale,

Your H wrote: "And yes, I do understand you are not trying to hurt or punish me. You deserve a full explanation, and I'm trying my hardest to come up with words that will explain my inexplicable actions (at least in your eyes). For the present, just know that I only rejected those other people's [i.e.,counselor, pastor, family members] advice after I found it wasn't working (note from me: he only tried for 6 months). I did not make this decision lightly; there were (and are) risks in it for me. I have alienated practically everyone who cares for me; they all think I am crazy and just having a mid-life crisis. And yet, I still made the decision I did, and I still think it was right."

RMA reply: This really sums it all up for him. I think he is re-iterating something I feel is common in many of our cases: he has reached a point in his life and he is unhappy and desperately trying to find this happiness. Unfortunately, he is still seeking external, and not internal peace, happiness and validation.

Reminds me of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz.......

RMA

Hi all!

Dave: I don't know what I am going to do if she tries to come back. In the meantime, I forge ahead with the D as quickly as possible. I want this mess over.

Avondale: I had to read your H's letter twice to let the words sink in. Some of the things he said reminds me of the excuses my W made throughout this thing. Counselors (off & on: never committed to finishing a program), pastor (she would not listen), and her family (she would not listen) all of these intermediaries could the crack her way of thinking. He wants to be buddies and friends with you. How nice! Real cute!Does that make you feel wonderful? I guess he is doing you a favor by having you associating with him. He has a good "SHOW" going on. My W wants to be friends, but I am not having any part of it. With me, it is plain and simple: you are either FOR me or you are AGAINST me. It is as clear and black and white as that. Since I have a kid with W, our relationship is strictly BUSINESS; No more no less. He seems to want to stradle the line and have his cake and eat it too. He used the term that he is taking a risk too. Well, that's his problem and choice. Yes, he accepted some of the biiter pill, but he is in crybaby mode as well. Excuse the tone of my response, but I take committment very seriously. I have no respect for those I cannot trust.

Later.

Avondale,
I agree with all of the above responses from RMA and Petvet.
This letter is all about him. It's a typical self centered, "I'm going to find my happiness no matter what the costs are" response.
I'm surprised that you did get a reply as soon as you did.
If he does move out, I would go into Plan B and let him make the next move.
IMHO, I don't think you will need to wait very long for him to do that.
Stay Strong!
Wallace