davepr,

The trip to VA sounds wonderful! You have been given another chance and it sounds as if both you and your W are really trying to do things right this time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

I am sorry about your friend passing away. Death does give us the impetus to re-evaluate our own lives and situations. Just know that in due time, your situation will be all sorted out. You have been a real trooper here. Prayers for you, your friend and all that he touched.

EC,

Yes, I agree that your W is headed for a big crash. Reality will hit here sooner or later. It doesn't even have to be that she will miss you and want you back. But. I'd bet money that she realizes one day, and perhaps even one day real soon, that she walked out on an awful lot and perhaps her life with you wasn't so bad after all.

Petvet,

All is great here. I really have no complaints. Things are going along swimmingly well for me and just writing that makes me nervous as if I am going to jinx myself somehow. Let us know when you get your court date. Oh, by the wway, any response from her lawyer about your W being so much in arrears on the CS?

Too Much Coffee,

How goes it for you this week????

RMA

Hi Y'all
Wallace - sorry about your friend. I had same thoughts about life's uncertainties after 9/11. Which was only a few weeks after D day at my house, so it was made more poignant.

Update on me: hubby came back to town from school in NYC last week. As per my request, he came to get his stuff out of the house 2 days ago. We had heretofore (how's THAT for a word?!) interacted via e-mail. But he called me at work to tell me he had gotten most of the "visible" stuff and would need a couple more trips to get the rest of it. It was SOOO hard to talk to him on the phone about inconsequential things (compared to our lives right now) and remain unmoved (but I did). However I broke down in tears after we hung up. I am so thankful I have a private office with a locked door!

Hello all,

Well xw decided to email me today, it was in response to I told her I wasn't in favor of her adultery and won't endorse it. Well her response was what does this have to do with filling out CS modification papers. She says, "now I apologized for being late on payments that affected your credit", I tried to be positive and tell you I'll fill out the papers and whatever else you want, why are so negative towards me? Do you want me to be a friend or enemy?, I can be an enemy you know (of course I already thought she was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) ooops!

Then she says ok what do you need me to do? Tell me what to fill out and lets do this right, do you need me to do this or that? See I'm trying to help you just tell me what you need. See didn't I tell you need to do this and that?

Ok guys, this is just a peice of things today...Now she has me wondering, I know her. She gave me this odd feeling I remember when we were married how she would participate and be nice and do business stuff, she knew to help me was a way to my heart back then and get in good after a spat. Even though she got mad at me today at one point she didn't turn me away and say I had enough of him don't talk to me, etc...this time its like she's trying to keep the door open and not have me shut it on her, she was being extra nice, before she wanted nothing to do with me.

Ok, I tried something I shouldn't have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , don't try this at home. Have you ever had your curiosity eat you up? well mine did. So I decided to test mine. I've been strong all this time and resisted her and here I go.In three different emails at the end I said diff things, in one I said, you must want me to hold you in my arms, no response on that, another you must still be deeply in Love with me? no response, another, you must want me to kiss you, no response.

She always corresponded on the other issues in each email but always skipped the tail end personal message....I was surprized though, she used to say, I'm not attracted you that way, or I'm not interested in you, or please keep that to yourself, those things will never happen between us, I don't feel that way about you, go find someone else, etc....

So I tested the waters, I'd still be scared at this point to take her back because she is still arrogant and unrepentant, but it's interesting she's not knocking down my words like before.

I don't recommend anyone doing what I did, my circumstance is different than others. Breaking communication, Plan B does work., she's careful now not to have me cut her off again.

Hi all:

Wallace: "They will get to lead the lives that they evidently seemed so hell bent on living. I don't plan on watching them live their lives.. I hope you don't either." Well said. I'm ready to be happy without dealing with someone who is against me.

EC: Be careful, don't get yourself hurt again. Are you and your W legally divorce? You had mentioned that you got on her about her adultery, but if you guys are divorce, she can have as many relationships as she wants. I can tell that you still have feelings for her.

RMA: I know what you mean when you say that things are going so well that you know that the grimweeper is around the corner. I found out that wifey is in the market for another apartment. As far as the CS is concern, payment is due today. My attorney informed me that she sent a letter to her attorney to inform him that if they do not return the Mediation Agreement to her office by this Friday that she will file a Motion to Enforce the Stipulation Agreement. Wifey owes me over $600.

Avondale: I have cried as well. In such cases as ours, we are only human. There is only so much pain that we can take without letting it out. It's that pain that will make us stronger. At some point, you will build enough armour around you that no matter what you WS does to you, it does not hurt as much. Stay strong.

Later.

Petvet - While I was running this morning you came to my mind; just wanted you to know you were in my prayers today.

Hi Avondale, yes, we are dv'ed was final in May. I made mention to her of that because in one aspect she's looking for my approval on the issue and she's not getting it. To be friends in her eyes I'm sure is to ease her guilt.

Many people have warned me about keeping away from her for the fear of getting sucked back into her mess and manipulation and getting used.

One thing I did see though was even though I have feelings it wasn't like what it once was, I saw that I moved on somewhat, 21 years don't dissolve quickly, its was like she would have to come up to where I am, I'm no longer back there anymore.

I felt a heavy weight thinking of the possibility of being with her later, going right back to all the games and sneaking snapped me back into reality. I said to myself, you better keep moving on and leave that door shut, you're asking for trouble.

Hi All,
I'm doing better today than yesterday.
Thank you all for all responses, it helps... make no mistake about it.
RMA... If your life is anything likemine... just when you think things are going good... it isn't.
Lets hope that's not the case for you.
I'm glad to hear your doing well.
PETVET... Have you heard from your "W" in the last couple of days?
I noticed that you haven't mentioned talking to her... is it because of the CS issues?
When is your next court date?
I don't know about you, but I will sure be glad to have this end so I know where and how we are going to land on this one.
It really works on you at times.
DAVE... I hope you have a good vacation this weekend.
I know I could sure use one.
Keep up the good work.
AVONDALE... There will be many times that your emotions will run so high that you will swear that you are losing your mind.
Our "WS's" will hit every nerve they can before it's all said and done with.
Over time, you will be surprised, just how much of their garbage you will be able to handle.
You will become a much stronger person after it all concludes.
So there is a positive side to it all.
EC... I think it would be wise to listen to what your friends are telling you for now.
For your own well being... I think I would stay clear of her for awhile until she decides to come back down to earth.
I too can sense that you still have strong feelings for her still... even though you are "D".
But for your own good... you need to start taking care of yourself and not think about her for now (as hard as that may be).
She has a lot of issues she needs to work through.
Give it some time, maybe she will get past her issues in time and then you might want to try to renew the relationship again.
I think I know what you mean about the adultry issue.
Even though your "D".
From a Biblical standpoint and in the eyes of God, it's still adultry no matter how many relationships she has... if it involves any form of sexual contact.
TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN... Whats going on, anything worhtwhile?
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orinal post by Wallace:<strong>TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN... Whats going on, anything worhtwhile?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Wallace. I've been terrorizing the other boards with my caffeinated comments and just wish I haven't screwed up anybody else's life more than they already are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not much is happening here on the home front and I kind of like it that way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My daughters are finishing up their last days of summer vacation and are of course bummed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .My lady has had a cold for the last two weeks and yours truly has been babying her and thus have made big time deposits in her love bank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .As far as my xWW is concerned, she is still going to therapy and seems to be making good progress in the responsable parent department. She still sends me the occasional 'I'm sorry I hurt you, I know now that you are my true love, yada, yada, yada' e-mail <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , which ,after I show it to my lady, gets promptly deleted.

I've been following the thread on a daily basis and by your posts, you sure look like Ahnold or Hercules twin bro (emotionally speaking of course) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

So how are you?

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Hi all!

Avondale: Thanks for thinking of me in your prayers. Jogging is very good for the body and soul. I run on a couple of times a week. I am in the process of resuming working out in the boxing gym. I need more physical workouts to obtain muscle tone because at my age just running the two or three days a week just does not get me where I want my weight to be. Don't get me wrong, when I was a kid I boxed but I do not get inside of the ring now because I value my facial features. I just work on the heavy and speed bags
along with rope work.

Wallace: What's the point in communicating with W unless I absolutely have to. I am quickly getting beyond her and her ______. I am approaching forty; I cannot and will not involve myself in this mess. It takes up too much unnecessary resources. She is either for me or against me. Since it appears that she is against me, I must move on. I don't need that kind of baggage. I need to prepare my resources to care for my kid and my retirement and a better life. As long as I am invlove in this mess, I am going to continue threading water and running in place rather than moving forward and making progress. Negative and positive do not mix. All the mess I am going through with CS only highlight the messy world that my W lives. Nothing has changed. I have to have order in my life. That's just the way I am.

EC: I agree with your statement about WS having to come up to your level rather than you going back down to her. Who have time to deal with this negative stuff? All their(WS) junk just rolls right of you after a certain point. I believe Avondale will get to this point sooner than later.

Later.

Hi Petvet, yep going back to where she is would be a major step backwards, she's been in the same mentality for about 2 years now when she first started drifting. From what I can tell just knowing her, even though she puts on a front as if things are going ok, there's been a major change In her I can't describe yet, I think her eyes are coming open now, she was still arrogant but it was a whole lot weaker voice behind it.

Her speech is different now, she's trying to be level headed somewhat, ...Whatever took place in the past 2 months did something, no car and major job and income loss and whatever else happened shook her world. She was having trouble making it before, I can't imagine what it's like now.

On the CS issue. She knew OD had to be dropped from CS but she also thought I had back child support to pay for a number of years for my OD/YD but thats paid, that was a blow to her financial outlook also and she was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> she counted on that I guess to make up some of the diff of her job income loss too. Therefore I'll just be paying for YD. All the money I paid before the court date in May and now all the overpayments for OD added up.

CS gets your attention I'm sure you're going to see the effect of that very soon with your WW.

Thanks Petvet and everyone for all the advice

Take Care

Petvet,

You wrote:"What's the point in communicating with W unless I absolutely have to. I am quickly getting beyond her and her ______. I am approaching forty; I cannot and will not involve myself in this mess. It takes up too much unnecessary resources. She is either for me or against me. Since it appears that she is against me, I must move on. I don't need that kind of baggage. I need to prepare my resources to care for my kid and my retirement and a better life. As long as I am invlove in this mess, I am going to continue threading water and running in place rather than moving forward and making progress. Negative and positive do not mix. All the mess I am going through with CS only highlight the messy world that my W lives. Nothing has changed. I have to have order in my life. That's just the way I am."

RMA reply: This is how I feel about it all: The BS owes the WS a period of time for the WS to sort things out. I have stated many times that I believe the WS in an affair is in a turmoil and angst of their own. Things get complicated and the WS must have the time and space to sort these issues out. I believe that you owe your spouse some time and space to try to figure it all out. In the meantime, the BS should be doing everything they can to remove LBs, identify and try to meet ENs (to the extent they are allowed by the WS), and to focus on being a better person in general.

Yet, in my opinion, there does come a time when the BS must draw a line in the sand. The WS must make a decision to come back, or the BS must make the decision to move on as best as he/she can.

Petvet, in my book, you have done so many right things. You have Plan A'd your wife and done such a super job of it right from the start. You have given her every indication that you have desired to have her return to the marriage and be your wife. I agree with your thinking 100%. If she isn't going to come back and start doing anything to try to at least EXPLORE if the marriage can be saved, then there is nothing there to wait for. You are TRYING to move forward with your life to make it more meaningful for yourself, even though y ou do still care about her.

I definitely believe the WS deserves a life full of happiness. But, I also believe the BS is JUST as deserving of a life full of peace and happiness. If the WS chooses to leave, after a decent period of continuing to try and be receptive and open to forgiveness and reconciliation, if you as the BS choose to move yourself forward and try to reforge a new and hopefully happier life than the current hell you are living, then my opinion is that you should.

If at some point down the road your W (or maybe she will be an exW by then) decides maybe she made a big mistake, then you can decide at that point in your life, if you are open to giving her another chance or not. I feel it is healthier for you emotionally to try to move on at some point, and each person must decide when that point is. As can be seen from posts on these boards, that point is definitely different for each person.

To avondale, Wallace, EC, davepr and Too Much Coffee, hello to each of you and hope your Sunday is pleasant.

RMA

Hi All,
B]RMA[/B]...
I had a pretty decent weekend.
My "OD" had her 19th birthday yesterday.
We had a BBQ with the immediate family and I think it went rather well... all things considered.
My "STBXW" stuck with tradition and didn't acknowledge my "OD"birthday.
She did not send a card, telephone call, or anything, to wish her a Happy Birthday.
She did the samething to my other two kids as well.
She is a real piece of work... I know the kids just love her to death.
It will take years for her to ever reestablish any kind of a relationship with my children, if that.
Petvet...
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying you should establish any kind of communication with your "WW".
In fact, you keep doing just exactly what you are doing... don't change a thing.
I was just wondering... she had been in contact with you quite a bit, and we hadn't heard anything more about her.
So I assume that she hasn't been around lately?
TooMuchCoffeeMan...
Glad to hear that nothing new is really going on... sometimes that is a very good thing.
I'm also glad to hear that your out there on the other boards.
I've read some of your posts on the other boards, you've got a lot of good advice... keep up the good work.
EC... It sounds like your "XW" is starting to do a crash and burn.
I wonder if she is regretting the decisions that she has made?
Reality has a way of bringing you back down to earth.
It appears she is going to hit hard real soon.
Avondale... How are you doing?
Is your "H" coming back to get more of his personal effects, or did he get it all when he came back this last time?
Dave... I hope you had a good weekend getaway and everything is still going well for you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hello Wallace and everyone,

I can't imagine what kind of repair your WW will have to do, talking about total abandonment on her part.

You know more and more I'm starting to see as time goes on, its best to keep moving forward, its amazing as time goes on how when D-day first occured you feel like you're in a mist of a forest on fire trying find your way out then after a while you're walking out alive and you begin to look back as you get further away and think what a mess, everything is chared, you look at the forest fire and think, all that because the fire that belongs in a marriage the WS took outside the home and set other houses on fire from burning lust. The fire between a couple will always destroy if taken outside the bedroom of the home, it burns down everything in site,you, friends and family. The deception the WS has is, they think there is no fire in marriage but there is, its like a natural gas line, the pilot may go out, but the Gas is still on.

Then they go find OP and they say oh he/she really turns me on, he/she lights my fire....Problem with all that is, the WS left claiming they were no longer on fire in the marriage and didn't realize they had a leak and they get lite by OM/OW only to explode into tragedy later, they were leaking the whole time in the marriage but never fixed there problem, its always the BS that has the problem.

This is where my xww is now, she has a leak and she's turned on by OM who's lighting her fire, the things that caused that fire to burn at the start is dwindling down, now vapors are coming into to play, that thing is about to explode into a mess.

Will I know when it happens? probably not, the only thing I know is she'll be a broken woman when it does. The Gas was on in the marriage all along, and at some point they realize that.

Take Care

Wallace,

How sad for your daughter to not be recognized by her Mother on her BD. You can not control these sad events, but only feel good that your child is secure in the love YOU have for her. May God continue to bless your most loving of hearts!

EC,

What a good analogy! Yes, I agree the WS oftens takes their leaks and baggage on to the new relationship. Your exW's problems are stating to get to her, huh? You can only pray that the mother of your children will learn and grow one day soon.

Hope you are all having a good Monday evening!

RMA

Hi all! Wallace, I think your W is at the point of no return. As you said, it will take years if ever for her to reestablish relationship with the kids. She is a total mess. Be happy in the fact that you will soon be no longer tied to her legally and emotionally.

EC: Your analogy hits the nail right on the head. From the WS view, it's all smoke and mirrors.

Later.

Hi All,
Well I am on the count down to the final "D" hearing... only 63 more days to go.
STBXW is expected to be a no-show for the hearing... why break tradition.
It would of been easier had she communicated with me so we could of drawn up an agreement. That would of been to easy though.
I think one of our main problems in our "M" was she never was able to communicate... and as you can see, she is still having trouble in that area.
As we all know, communication is one of the cornerstones to a happy "M".
RMA...
Thank you again for your prayers... they are always appreciated and needed as well.
Is you garden still going well? It's starting to get late in the season, at least over here it is.
Petvet...
It appears that both you and I picked some real winners to get married to.
You are absolutely correct... my STBXW is at the point of no return... with me as well as my children.
How are things going on your end?
I know you are pretty much heading in the same direction as I am.
You can only take so much, and then it's time to call it a day.
EC...
It sounds like your XW is going to explode all over the place.
Just make sure... when it happens... you don't get hit with any of the debris.
That was a good analogy you posted... keep your head down and your back against the wall on this one.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Yep Wallace, I guess we did marry a couple of winners. I imagine I should be counting down as well. I received some wonderful news from the Tribunal. Check this out: I cannot file for an annulment until at least one year after the divorce is final. Great! This means that I will have to continue dealing this mess for a couple years yet. Wow, I have something to look forward to. Oh! It only gets better. Wifey failed to make her CS payment. What is she thinking?

RMA: My garden is OUT OF CONTROL.

Avondale: Update, Update.

EC: Keep your protective armour on.

Later.

Petvet,
Sorry to hear the news from the Tribrunal.
It just seems like it never ends... but hopefully it will someday.
I didn't think your "W" would make her "CS" paymant.
I thought your attorney was filing a motion for contempt as far as the "CS" issue was concerned.
Where are you at on that?
I go to court today to try to get my money back.
If you recall my STBXW forged my signature on my bank account and left with a good chunck of money.
Seems the bank (that I filed suit against) thinks it's easier to fight me in court, than to just credit me my money back.
Well I'll know later on today how this one plays out.
I'll let you know the outcome.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi Y'all
I was thinking of posting today even though I haven't had much to say, just trying to follow along since you're farther down the road than I am at this point. I had intended to get everyone's feedback on the role in-laws play (good or bad) in tough love concepts...

BUT I had an unexpected appt with Steve Harley today (was set for next week but time slot opened up). The main reason I made the appt. was to get a different perspective from local counselor who had recommended Tough Love (but not much else) to me after H left. In talking to SH I realized our prior marriage counseling wasn't very focused on either us as individuals or our marriage (no homework, no goals, etc). Guess I was in a fog myself to not recognize it, but what do I know, I've never been through this before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Or maybe I did but it was after H had left. Anyway, I feel encouraged after talking to him that no matter what happens, I will have another stone unturned and can hopefully rest with whatever outcome may be.

PETVET - sorry to hear about the CS but I know you weren't surprised. Now, is an out of control garden a good thing? LOL Hope it's the veggies that are growing and not the weeds!

WALLACE - Are you having to actually pay an attorney to go to court against the bank? How does that work? I hope the outcome is in your favor!

Well, it's back to work for me...I can smell the weekend ahead. Will see H when he comes by to do some yard work and can try my skills at communicating via Steve Harley's suggestion!

Hi All,
Well I went to Court yesterday and won... YAY!!!
So the Bank now has to credit my account for all the money my "STBXW" stole from my account by forging my signature on my personal checks.
If they don't credit the account by Monday, the Sherriffs Dept. is ready to come in with a garnishment... they ought to love that.
Well that was one small victory, now on to the rest of it.
Avondale...
I didn't have an attorney, I represented myself.
I felt the case was so open and shut, that I could handle it myself.
I started out in college wanting to be an attorney, but changed majors to business... so I had a little bit of background behind me.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Stay Strong!
Wallace