Hi Wallace thanks for the advice, I am a christian......

On the date issue? I know your final dv date is less than 30 days away and I think you said you and your WW have been apart for 3 years now?

There's nothing wrong with having a female friend, but for starters, I would go to lunch for now, keep it daylight stuff for now and keep the conversations generic just like if you took a female co-worker to lunch its innocent stuff, night time stuff can produce a romantic thing and if its somebody you wouldn't want to befriend longterm at least you can walk away without feeling any emotional obligation or anything.

Ok funny story:

Two months ago my sister introduced me to a friend of hers I never meet, we spoke on the phone for short time and went to lunch a few days later, I wouldn't take her to dinner, my preference, I'm trying to stay free. I told her upfront I'm not interested in any relationship, I said a woman would get in my way right now and it would be a emotional weight, she said she wasn't ready for any relationship as well, I said great!.

Well I saw her for about 1 hour on my lunch break and after that I never heard from her again.

I left her a message and said thanks for the lunch time thinking I did or said something wrong.

Well 3 weeks after that she tells my sister, she cut contact with me because, she said she could easily fall in love me and jump my bones and cause me the pain of sex before marriage issue.

I was shocked?!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> After what WW did to me, I thought I looked like the Grinch or some hunchback man with one eye in the center of his head walking with a stick for a cane, feet turned outward.

So as you see women can't always trust themselves sometimes it's not always the man doing the chasing or provoking, I said nothing, but more than anything just keep conversations generic for now. The biggest mistake you can make is jumping at the first thing that comes your way, we're not as ugly as the WS's make us feel.

Before we meet I told her a little of what happen in my DV over the phone but didn't open the door for any sympathy, my preference is to cry unto the Lord and not to some woman. I wanted her to know I wasn't some woman beater, playboy or something and why I was Dv'd. After she listen she said oh!, you still need to heal, you have a lot of hurt and anger still, I said yep, thats right I'm still healing and its a process, dropped the subject done deal, talked about other generic stuff, went to first lunch days later, nothing gained nothing lost.

Take care

Hi EC...
Your story had me laughing all the way through... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
That was good.
I know what you are talking about as far as feeling like some Frankenstein, or some freak of nature, when the WW starts giving you the business for the "OM".
It is nice to know that even though you may feel like you look like the "Grinch", someone is there to remind you, that you don't look or act like him... it helps.
I have known this person for quite some time, and I only have viewed her as a good friend.
She knows what I have been through, and she knows the pain and hurt that it has brought to myself and my children.
I am not ready to get into another relationship... not right now.
I think she knows that, at least I hope she knows that.
I may just wait until after the "D" is final... because I think she wants to go out for dinner, and I know what you are saying as far as keeping it innocent.
Thanks for the advice EC.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Wow Wallace,
We all know that you're a great guy. I'm sure it made you feel so validated just to be asked about going out! She is seeing all the great things your XW was too deaf/dumb/blind to see. Three years is a long time - you've got a lot of patience. Are you ready for a "friendly date" now? My opinion is to go with EC's suggestion - daytime lunch thing would be fine for all the reasons he gave against nighttime. And keep things generic. But only if you're comfortable with that idea. You're the only one who really knows.

EC - that is a great story! And you're right, I admit it as a female, we think and feel the same things about members of the opposite sex that guys do. Divorces and separations can really take a toll on self-esteem. We all need to remember that what our WS have said is not always the truth. Especially things said in the heat of arguments or during foggy times.

So now I'll look forward to reading all about the "first date" stories from the Tough Love Crew, LOL. Ya'll are awesome!

Petvet,

Well, that is quite significant for you - taking off your ring. I know how much your heart hurts and how lonely you feel right now. For that, I am truly sorry. Just know that I care about you and your son's feelings.

You asked about "him". I am not sure which him, but my "boyfriend" (I hate using that term, at my ripe old age!) is doing fine.

davepr,

Well, you have alot of fun stuff to look forward to with the upcoming BD's. Sorry about the behavioral issues, but, hey, the kids get hurt, too. There has been alot they probably haven't understood, and I am sure fear of her leaving again is just underneath the surface.

avondale,

Any "new" news with you and your H? How are you doing in the depre4ssion department? You seem to be coping pretty well, all things considered.

Wallace,

You will be out on dates and enjoying yourself soon. It will really perk you up to get some well-deserved female attention. Just keep your guartd, too, as you are at your most vulnerable for falling "too quick-toofast", if you know what I mean. MY personal opinion is that lunch at this point would be fine. After all, you are just getting to know this person, right? But, you also need to do what makes YOU feel best about yourself and your circumstances.

EC,

Wow! That lady thinks alot of YOU! Hey, that is no surprise. Listen, I think alot of us here. There is something admirable and remarkable about a person overcoming what we have. You art smart to only slightly open the door to your exW. I worry she could emotionally drag you in to provide emotional support for her new life, and its' ensuing consequences.

To all, keep the faith! There are so many people praying and pulloing for you!

RMA

Hi all!

Wow! EC & Wallace, go on with your bad selves. Just kidding. Seriously though, Wallace, I would start out with just phone conversation first. We need to be careful not to use these folks as rebound material. I know there is nothing like the attention of the opposite sex, but we especially need to be careful. I was told by a women the other day that men like us are hot property because we are good men especially to to be hea of households for our kids. Keep in mind that you need to be very picky, and remember that our kids must stay our top priority. Telephone, telephone, telephone for now. That's my recommendation. EC, WATCH OUT! Go slow too.

Dave: Glad to hear evrything is still going well.

RMA: I meant your male friend. Sorry for not not being clear.

Avondale: What's up with H?

Me: I have been asked several times recently whether I am still married or married. I just want good conversation with good people right now. No more no less.

Later.

Hi All,
Petvet...
I wanted to hopefully add to what RMA brought up as far as you taking off your wedding band and putting it away in a safe place.
When I took mine off, I knew it was for the last time. It was one of the most gut wrenching feelings I had ever experienced... it felt like I had lost a part of my body.
I know the pain and sorrow had to have been there for you as well, as it is one of the most difficult parts of beginning to detach there is... at least it was for me.
I still feel somewhat naked without it.
It is a very emotional step to take, and we are here for you as you move foward.
Thank you all... RMA, Petvet, EC, and Avondale for all of your insight and advice as to this dating thing.
I'm not sure if I want to become involved with any type of a relationship right now... I still have quite a bit on my plate to deal with.
It's kind of hard to avoid her and not see her in person, as she is in one of my classes that I attend on the weekend that is associated with the Church I attend.
So if I do anything, it will be just a lunch as friends type of thing (I didn't want to use the word affair... it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I do).
I also wanted to add a little time line clarification.
My STBXW and I have been legally separated off and on for almost 3 yrs. with numerous attempts to reconcile... which would put things on hold of course during those attempts to reconcile.
In October of last year, I finally filed for "D", after she walked out in October.
She came back about 10 days before Christmas, with one last attempt to try put our marriage back together again (the "D" was still rolling).
On April 19th of this year... she walked out the door and have not heard from her since.
Hopefully that puts the timeline into perspective.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ September 24, 2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Hi, I posted this on the GQII board,any comments?
Thanks Dave

We have been in recovery for several months now, things have been going very well...
Yesteday I found out that something happened between my FWS and a good friend of ours
about the same time her A with OM started.
We went out to dinner with some friends, this is well over a year ago now, after dinner and a few drinks, our friend, Steve, whom is married and has kids, his W is best friends with my FWS,
asked Lynn if she wanted to go for a motercycle ride, she accepted againist my judgement and left with him. I didn't think it was a good idea to go for a motercycle ride after they had both
been drinking. Turns out they went for a ride and pulled over somewhere, they were gone
about 45 minutes, and I was not happy at all.
Well, yesterday I find out that something happened when they pulled over, the person that told me only said that Steve tried to kiss her, didn't know what else happened.
Well Steve and his W are still very good friends of ours, atleast until yestday. I asked W about this last night without LB or getting angry,etc. She first denied anything happened, then I told her that I had already found out, finally she confessed that he tried to kiss her but it or anything else never happened. Personally, i don't beleive it but maybe I am just pestimistic after everything that has happened.
I have ALOT of anger with this, although I have not shown her this. I thanked her for finally
telling me the truth and for making the right decision that night.

Now for the problems: I obviously do not want to be friends with Steve any more, FWS understand this but doesn't want me to say anything to Steve or his W.

I feel betrayed again, even though nothing may not of happened, don't know if I will ever
get to the bottom or if I should even want to, the past is the past right? She obviously had
alot of problems back then so even if something happened I shouldn't be surprise. So why am
I filled with anger, I couldn't even sleep last night.

Comments?

Hi All,

For the past 3 weeks since I discovered MB, I have read every last post of this thread. Therefore, I could not continue without thanking you all for the great information.

My story is quite weird actually! 6 months ago my H became very emotionally detached. There was no evidence of an A at the time. No Working Late, no unexpected trips to the store, no unexplained absences from work. No visible signs at all! Then 3 months later, he was asking for a divorce. I knew things weren't right and without knowing about Plan A or B at the time, I was doing A on my own! To no avail! I felt in reading the MB basic concepts, it was a good plan A. Apparently not good enough! During the middle of July, while I was at work, he was moving out without so much as a goodby! Oh, Except for a letter telling me not to get in touch with him!

I cried myself to sleep for a week, I am a Christian so I prayed with My Pastor and Friends. On the 7th Day, I was a new person! Through Prayer I discovered the 34th Psalm. What a wonderful Prayer especially Verse 18. Through that I am learning that no matter who comes or who goes, the Lord is always there!

Since I was forced into Plan B, I had no choice but to be strong in the Lord.

It's been almost three months now and there has been no contact with H, and it becomes easier everyday.

During that time, I have seen evidence of an A, but because it was 3 months later and I'm stronger, it's not as painful. Oh I still cry, and sometimes even hope for reconcilation but not as often.

We were only married three years. Am I shock or is it possible I didn't love him as much as I thought I did?

And through it all I just took my ring off today thanks to you Petvet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady

davepr,

Your post was MOST distressing to me. While no one can expect any form of perfection in a relationship, I find it extremely disheartening that your W continues to pursue BAD choices, without regard to how YOU will feel. This violates the principles of care and POJA. I can surely understand how this is upsetting to you.

I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd ask myself what sort of PLAN do you and your W have for recovery? It is not enought o just physically get back together. It is not enough to go on vacation and have a good time together. Your relationship must be able to go throiugh the bad times, as well as the good. She needs to protect herself against her weaknesses and vulnerabilities, especially as they relate to OM. Besides that, she should be acting with the UTMOST concern to not give you any angst or worry in the infidelity department.

What is her plan to earn your trust again????

relady,

Your prayers are giving you strength to face you pain and that is such a good thing. Although it may be hards tyo believe this,. 6 months is too early to know "for sure" whether your marriage is 100% dead. Keep praying. You may just get a chance to do some Plan A'ing befrore all is said and done. Oftentimes, the WS walks out but is not quite "done" with the relationship all in one feel swoop like that.

RMA

Hi RMA, I plan to discuss most of this though our MC, remember this event happened over 1 year ago so it is nothing that she has done recently but the fact that he has not told the truth
about it upsets me, plus the fact that this guy (not OM) is still part of our lives....
Take care,
Dave

RMA,

Thank you for your reply. I will continue to pray, but sometimes I'm not sure how or what to pray, so I'm just praying that the Lord's will be done. Sometimes it feels like it's 100% dead with no contact for 3 months.

I was sure H would serve me papers by now! So maybe there is hope that he's not quite finished yet.

relady

Hi All,
Dave...
"Ditto" to what RMA has stated.
I see "red flags" all over the place.
She should be very much concerned as to what your feelings are on these type of issues... especially this early into your recovery.
Her apparent lack of concern and/or consideration is the part that is most troubling.
I understand your position... I would be very upset over it as well... and I'm glad that you approached it without any "LB".
I'm sure your guard is up and your walls are starting to go back up at this point in time as well.
I would have a heart to heart talk with her about this.
Get it all out on the table... and express your true feelings as far as how it has affected you and go back over your "POJA".
I would go along with your "W's" wishes for the time being and not say anything to your "X" friend's wife... it will only further confound the problem that already exists... but I would keep a watch on it.
If it continues in anyway, I would then inform your X friend's wife of the situation and circumstance... and brace yourself for the ramifications that I'm sure will soon follow.
Hopefully it is and will continue to be a one time situation.
Hi relady...
First of all, I would like to welcome you to Marriage Builders.
I'm sorry that your here, but it's a good place to be with all that you have going on.
Your situation isn't all that weird... I have been going through a very similiar situation as you have in regards to the way your spouse just up and left with no contact.
As a believer myself... I have had the Lord walk with me through this whole nightmare.
The Lord will get you through this no matter what the outcome.
Put God first in your life and the rest will come.
I can't answer your question as far as if you were in shock or your just not in love with your husband as much as you thought you were.
In my situation... as the time passes, so does the pain.
You will find that you will have good days and bad days as things progress.
It sounds like you are handling it well... and I'm pleased to hear that.
Give it to the Lord, and let him lead your path.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Thanks Wallace.... I plan to discuss with my MC (one on One) this week, and then together next week. Nothing may of happened, but once you break trust it is a very difficult thing to rebuild, especially when the other person is caught in a new lie. I understand her position of
not wanting to hurt me, although she claims nothing happend, he tried to kiss her but she
said no, but it makes we wonder and brings back alot of bad memories..

Take care,
Dave

Wallace,

Thank you for your insight, and for your welcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When I say my situation is wierd, I mean: How do you go from being married and being with each other for 3 years everyday and walk away with no contact?

I read in your some of your post that your WS did at least try to reconcile at times.

Right now I feel very in control and strong, but is that to say I won't fall apart or regress once I see him or hear from him. I'm not sure! Because during his emotional withdrawal I became a clingy whiner! (Oh, boy) Now I know through MB, that was definitely not the thing to do!

relady

Dave,
Once trust has been broken, it is by far a very difficult thing to rebuild.
Unforutnately she made a very bad decision in regards to going on the bike ride... knowing full well, that it was against your wishes that she go.
Your guard is up, and it's going to take some work on your end and especially your wife's end to ease your concern.
One on One with your "MC" is good, but I think the most productive thing at this stage is for your "W" to show you by her actions that she will be more considerate of your feelings.
Without that... IMHO, I think this incident will stick with you, and it will always be there in the back of your mind... until you see some positve moves on her end.
I wouldn't dwell on it though, you have worked through a lot tougher stuff than this.
Hi again relady...
I think I know where you might be going with this... and correct me if I'm wrong.
How does a spouse walk away from a marriage with no contact whatsoever without at least one attempt at reconciling?
IMHO, in most marriages, not all marriages, they don't just walk away for good, unless there was some form of abuse going on in the marriage.
Your "H" most likely will eventually make contact with you.
Now, I can't say they he may want to reconcile, but, you more than likely will hear from your "H" somewhere down the road.
If and when you do see your "H", I'm sure your emotions will run the full spectrum... no matter how strong you are on any given day.
When I saw my STBXW drive past me on the highway about 2 maybe 3 months ago... my emotions were all over the place.
One thing I can say for certain... when you do meet with him eventually... project yourself not as the "Clingy Whiner", but as a person that is confident, independent and happy.
Show him what he is missing out on... even if you decide that you don't want to reconcile with him.
My STBXW and I reconciled many times... so many, I lost count.
I didn't find MBers until it was too late
Would it have made a difference in my marriage had I found this site before it all came crashing down around me?
I think it would of.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Wallace,

I understand what you're saying. No there was no abuse. Maybe he won't just walk away for good. One thing that I am sure of is that I am by no means perfect, so why do most men instead of communicating let things go to a point of no return?

By the time he pointed what had been wrong from day one 'according to him', and made him feel better he was two weeks from leaving.

Thanks for the advice on how to act when I eventually see him. I hope I can pull it off.

relady

Wallace,you are right,the past is the past and
actions speak louder than words...I spoke with
the mutual friend and atleast what my W told her
is consistant with what she told me... ie he tried
but W said no... Take Care Dave

davepr,

Sorry, I did miss the fact that this happened one year ago. My reply was given thinking this was a new incident.

Your hurt and anger are going to continue to well up, Dave, until you get to the point that you have processed all thos feelings. It is natural for you now to be able to focus on ho hurt and mad you are about all those incidents. Indeed, they were hurtful incidents.

Just be careful - you have to grieve those things and feel the anger and hurt, but you also have to be able to be loving and forgiving. You have so much to do when working on repairing the marriage, but you can't forget about you in the process, either. Use this place, trusted confidants and your personal counselling to vent all those bad feelings, dave. You can't stuff them - you've already done that for a long time and look - they don't go away - they just simmer beneath the surface. Just try not to vent to your W, as I think this would be hurtful to your recovery. She likely isn't quite up to facing 100% of the reality of the hurt and anger she has caused you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{davepr}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

relady,

Wallace has given good counsel about how to act. Yes, most often, you will get some interaction with your H when you least expect it. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Work on yourself during this time alone. You need to be confident and secure in yourself as a person before you can be good mate "material". You are much more stable than I was 6 months after discovering my H's affair. Keep praying for God's will. That way you leave your expectations open - not pre-determined. You can only control you and your expectations - nothing else.

God bless, RMA

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</small>

RMA,

That's is why I asked if I'm still in shock or not in love. It has been 3 months and I feel as though I've moved along too rapidly!

Just today I found out that he was having A with OW-25 H-55. All I could do was laugh histerically.

Now I ask you, is that normal?

But, on a serious note, My strong belief in the Lord and Wonderful friends and family have gotten me through this. And especially praying God's will. While being alone, I realize that I don't want what God doesn't want for me. Because what He gives, He adds no sorrow to it. And my M included alot of sorrow.

When and if he contacts me again, I will be calling on MB for advice, so that I don't make a complete idiot of myself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,

relady

Hi Y'all
Wow, a lot of posts in 24 hours!
Dave...I also ditto what RMA said. I'm sorry you're having to re-live some forms of deception (I guess the "guilt of omission" type of thing). I'll be praying you can work through this without much backtracking during recovery.

Relady...welcome to MB. I wonder what state you live in? Each state's requirements for divorce are different - is that the outcome you want? (I know it's hard to think of reconciliation when you haven't heard from him in so long.) I understand what you mean when you say you don't know how to pray! My prayers basically are for the Lord to take the blinders off my husband's eyes to be open to the deception he is operating under (a.k.a."the fog" here at MB). Also for myself, to be open to hear His voice and purposes for me during this time. And you are correct, it is easy to be strong when you haven't seen or heard from him, but that may change when you are in contact. So use this time to continue improving yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Once you're separated, not seeing your spouse at all, it's easy to start thinking of yourself as single, independent, and not allowing for the possibility of the marriage working out. That in itself isn't totally a bad thing, part of our natural self-protection mechanism. It's something that, early in separation, we might still need to guard our hearts about, lest we become too hardened to our situation and not allow room for anything else other than what WE assume/predict our futures to be occur. Something along the lines of "emotions predict our future based on how we feel today (single?)". That may not make good sense, but it's just my opinion.

Update on me....I spoke with Steve Harley this week, 3rd counseling session. He feels that maybe I jumped too soon into Tough Love/Plan B scenario and wants me to initiate some types of contact with H in order to have opportunities to demonstrate change and also to have positive types of interaction. So I called H today about taxes (yes, we file late!) and he agreed to meet for dinner. Now, I didn't get my hopes up that this one thing means anything (remember, H had wanted us to be friends throughout his affair). But I admit that since he had not finalized the separation agreement he initiated, and still has belongings here, I felt somewhat hopeful for our future. Dinner went fine, lots of small talk but good conversation too about our jobs, worries about son, etc... However, I checked the mail after I got home from dinner, and what do I see but the finalized separation agreement, which he signed the day before our anniversary <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He didn't bring it up at all during dinner. He agreed to everything we rebutted the original one with, but I don't consider it a victory. And why he waited 3 months from writing it originally to making the changes I asked for and then signing it, I don't begin to understand. I'm a little bummed about it but it's in God's hands! Anyway, that's my little vent, time for bed.