Hi Everyone,
I hope everyone had a good weekend, and I hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving this week as well.
Short week for me at work this week (Mon.- Wed.) so I'll be in and out at best during the Thanksgiving Holiday.
In conjunction with the question... Can we go through new relationships or reconcile with former WS without psycho analyzing the situation.
I believe that is up to the individual and his/hers circumstances. I believe that I would make a concentrated effort not to psycho analyze the situation... but I'm not sure I would be entirely successful... especially with a WS. I have found myself second guessing certain things in the relationship I'm in now. Not because I want to, but certain triggers come up that give you cause for pause... and you find yourself psycho analyzing certain things that were either said or done.
Hopefully that decreases... accept the good things, and work on the problem areas when they arise.
In time, for the moment... I find myself comparing what was... with what is. I believe it's just normal human nature to do just that... considering what we have all been through it's not hard to. Granted it's not good to do this, but it's almost impossible for me not to. I need a lot of work in this area.
So far I have been successful to date by not allowing my past experiences affect my current relationship. It isn't easy... in fact it would be very easy to allow my past experiences affect my current relationship. I have to make a concerted effort not to let it happen.
I just keep reminding myself to not live in the past, but to live in the present. That this is a new relationship, and deal with whatever presents itself and deal with it to the best of your ability and to not allow yourself to make the same mistakes as you did in your past relationships.
How do I think others perceive my status. People who knew my situation are wondering why I didn't get rid of her a long time ago... so it's all positive. Others... don't really give it a second thought... it's so common place (which is sad) it's just like another day as far as they are concerned.
I think it's more of a matter of how we perceive our situation more than what others think.
avondale...
I'm curious to see how your daughter's conversation goes with her Dad... it should be interesting.
Hope everyone has a great day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Little update here...
I will be talking to H on Wednesday evening. This will be our second "talk" since he left. Unfortunately a little bit late since he's already decided to proceed towards divorce. (Why is he NOW able to give reasons? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> LOL)

But it's my opportunity to point out how the reasons he shared with me 3 wks ago are illogical and irrational. Hopefully food for thought . I definitely do NOT want to use it for reconciliation purposes because at this point he's so far from what he was that I don't want him as he is. So pray for me to be able to articulate my thoughts. One of his reasons was our (new) incompatability since he is almost finished with his PhD and I have only a high school eduation. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Hello Everyone, GOOD MORNING!!

A New Day and New Things to discover!!!

Avondale

When you meet with your H just remember he's in the fog and will say some stupid stuff. Just because you finished Highschool is not a bad thing...I don't know personally but from what I've read you are a very beautiful person inside and if the inside is so powerful, rich and beautiful what a treasure you are.

I brought out some points from your last conversation with your H, I posted comments after your quotes:

&#8226; He did admit he probably was having a MLC but didn't think that was necessarily a bad thing because the end result might bring him happiness

[As you see he's confused, he said "it might" bring him happiness? If he's not trying to correct his actions he'll be worse off. My exw was like that, she said " if I'm taking the wrong road then let me take it " if anything bad happened she would recover...she said pitch wisdom.

&#8226; He suggested that instead of trying to cram a life's worth of honest talk into one session tonight, to try to get together in a few weeks to talk a little bit more (Not to talk of reconciliation, but for him to explain why he wants separation, and why he was unhappy, probably to help relieve his guilt.)

[The typical WS talk, yep they need you to validate and approve there decision so they can later use it against you and say "You Agreed". My exw used that when I signed the DV papers at her cunning and manipulation. Honest talk? They constantly lie.

&#8226; He also admitted that he was VERY depressed until the last month or so. I basically just listened, and kept wondering "who IS this man?" (I know y'all know what I mean!)

[It will interesting to see what he has to say different than last time. What helped him from his depression? If it was OW then it's only a Temp fix......Affair's are only a short temporary fix to a longterm internal problem, thats why during the affair they crash and burn..

Anyway don't let him intimidate you with his education, he's human just like everyone else, his pride and sinful actions will bring him low...those degrees without proper character and integrity don't make you happy, it becomes just a peice of paper of accomplishment.

Just rememeber only what he says about you can make you better and push you into your destiny, I learned that the WS's tell what they are unhappy with you about but at the same time if you listen they say what they like and love about you too. Take notes and listen, he'll spill it out. He'll use the incompatible card a lot but don't worry they all do. My exw said same thing after 21 years, it don't take that long to find that out, come on.

You said you don't want to reconcile with who is at this time, but just remember he's going to tell you about you, eat the meat spit out the bones, if you improve on those things its going to put him in a fit of jealousy in time, he'll be afraid another man will have those things. Don't improve for him though improve for you.

Wallace - To look at past issues and compare it to the present is natural because you try not to fall into the same traps. I look at both sides, what WW did to me, but also what I failed to do as a Mate. Its funny but when I get around my married friends and I see things I did, I'll pull the guy off to the side later say and something , meaning, example...IF his wife bought him a shirt and he says " I'm not wearing that crazy looking shirt "...I cringe....I tell him your wife bought you that shirt because she thought her man would be good looking in that and that excites her and turns her on....Then they say Oh I never saw it that way, I say neither did I until I learned that I hurt her feelings by not adjusting to her taste also, don't do what I did, just wear the shirt and be proud, its not like you're wearing it for a lifetime. If her buying you shirt keeps her eyes on you what a bless man you are, keep letting her dress you even if look like donald duck, at least she thinks your the best duck in town, I'm not talking about control, its called give and take, compromise a little from your personal taste, of course I know now.

When a woman says something now about fashion I listen, I listen even to my sisters, women know what looks good. One of my female friends talks about where she insist her boyfriend to shop and she goes along......I listen to these stores she's naming, my sisters and other friends, guess what I do?, yep, trail to those stores when I shop.....My exw don't dress me now but what fashion looks good in the eye of a woman does, makes life a little easier.

Take Care

Well Sherriff went to deliver CS modification papers to exw, they said she moved, where? they don't know have no trace.....The people who live there now said they've been there since March or May, go figure, I was there in May?....

So as you see this is what I mean, exw has my kids brainwashed to keep silence and talk in code, they do not say anything about they moved, last time I spoke with them nor has called or emailed me they moved....I email OD, I get no response, I mailed them autograph pictures I get no response or thank you....The only thing I've is YD called and said she got the TV and said Thanks...

At this point since the court is backlogged and the court date will be scheduled 6 months before any adjustment about May 2003, I may just drop ALL this and pay CS until Oct 2003 when she's 18 as the current court order reads and be done with it all otherwise a CS modification will cause me to pay until June 2004 a lesser amount but until she's 18 and out of HS. I don't know but it's frustrating, ALL this mess because a WS wants to sleep around.

Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a wonderful weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This was my first weekend going to a concert without my H. I didn't look at couples holding hands or hugging and envy them, because now I really know looks are deceiving! Now, that's growth for me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

That was great advice you gave avondale <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If Ws's are so comfortable in their decision, why should they need validation. DUH? They all say the same thing, that continues to amaze me. LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When a woman says something now about fashion I listen, I listen even to my sisters, women know what looks good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good for you, I used to choose my H clothes, I wonder how he looks now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But it's my opportunity to point out how the reasons he shared with me 3 wks ago are illogical and irrational. Hopefully food for thought . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll be praying for the right words for you to at least penetrate the 'fog'.

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>

Hi Relady,

Thats good about how does he look now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm sure you did a good job.

One thing I learned is when you hear a woman say " I just can't please you" that is a frustrated woman, she's not being allowed to flow in what she feels is pleasing to you, from her and her input and being is hindered as a woman....

I never got a chance to tell my exw this kinda a stuff I learned later after she seperated, she didn't want to hear it, but I guess the next woman will know and be happy.

Hi everyone.... My work is closed this entire week, mandatory shutdown to save money...
enjoying the time with the family...

I was able to get a new position within my company so that was a big relief..

Just wanted to with everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
Take care,
Dave

Hi All,
avondale...
You are absolutely correct... a degree, diploma, certificate of completion, etc., doesn't make you a better person. It's a nice accomplishment, but it doesn't qualify anyone for being a good spouse.
People who think like this have their prioritys all screwed up. A WS will use just about any excuse they can to justify their behavior... and it appears your "H" is doing just that.
Your going to walk into your next meeting with your "H" with the right attitude... I'll say a prayer for you to let the Lord have you communicate with your "H" in a positive manner.
EC...
I'm not sure if this is mandated by every State. But I know in my "D" decree, a part of the court order states that the custodial parent is required to notify the other parent of any change of address. If they don't, then they could be held in violation of the Court order... you are probably already are aware of this... but a little food for thought.
It's amazing how much we have learned since our WSs left.
Knowing what I know now might not have changed anything concerning my situation, but I'll tell you... I have given vey similiar advice as you did to some of my friends concerning how they were acting in certain situations in their marriage. They listened and heeded the advice, and their marriages seem to be doing a lot better. Quite amazing isn't it?
It sounds like your doing much better though in spite of what your exW is doing... and for that I'm thankful.
relady...
You past a significant hurdle at the concert... I'm glad to hear that your growing and healing... praise God!
Keep up the good work, your on the right track.
Petvet, RMA, and Dave...
I hope all of you are having a good week and things are going well for all of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi all!

First of all, I want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Even though this can be a tough time of year with all our personal issues, we can take a moment to think about what we really have to say "Thanks".

Avondale: Don't let your H use his arrogant psycho babble to degrade in reference to this degrees. As some one said earler, it's not about the alphabets behind your name that counts at final judgements, it's one's character. I find you to be intelligent and one who puts great effort in your thoughts. You have more patience than I do. I would just tell him to bottom line what he has to say. He either wants to stay married or he does not. I would not let him use you to enrich his ego. What he has done is crummy, PERIOD. His efforts to put a good spin on his actions I find to be dispicable(dictionary not handy). Stay strong. I will have you in my thoughts.

Wallace: Friend, I am so proud of you. You will make someone a good partner. God bless you!

EC: Same a above; however, you must find some way to keep your ex from keeping you in her web. She is playing games with you and your kids. Spend the hour worth of money to counsel with an attorney. You must bring her mess to an end. I hate to see you go through this with her.

Relady: I hope things are going well for you.

Dave: I'm happy you have found another position. You really have a lot to be thankful for.

RMA: I can see you in the kitchen now. What's on the menu? By the way, how good are you with desserts like pies, cakes, etc.

Later.

Hi Petvet,

Thanks for the Happy Thanksgiving Wish, The same to you....We do have a lot to be thankful for despite whats happened....

I was posting on other threads this week trying to help other people, it's amazing when you try to talk about some issues you went through you have to go back so far now in my case, all mine started in 2000, now its going on 2003, what a way to start a decade....Exw will still have to deal with getting over me, then after her boytoy jumps ship she'll have to deal with that also, she could spend rest of her life dealing with all this....

I think I'll try to stick to this thread with you guys for a while, I tried to jump in traffic and help others with there post for the first time in a long time and I see there are some Crocodiles out there now that will snap you up like a duck sittin in water, its like there eyes are peering just above water <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> waiting. So maybe I'll change my name to Crocodile Hunter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway everybody in MB is unique regardless.

When I lived in FL I saw Aligators like I saw cats and dogs they're everywhere. I held a baby one and I thought man you'd make a nice pair of boots of course he didn't think so.. I think he was ready to snap me up after that.

You guys are right I should know where YD/OD are at all times as our agreement states...When I tried to hire an Attorney to do the CS modification, he said "Oh you don't need me' its so easy I would feel bad taking your money $1,000 just file this form such and such and boom its done..Well he said one form, I end up filing 10, as soon as I can serve exw, I'm done with all filing, all other papers have been processed by the clerk of court.

If I would have had the money I would have fought for my kids and made her pay me CS rather than see her drag them through all the mess and heartache she has done to them....I respect a woman highly and it's not a pleasant thing to see a woman pay CS, but when they refuse to fulfil there role as a mother and want to destroy lives, then I'm all for it. My heart breaks when I see women in prison, that is so below who they are....

Anyway Happy Thanksgiving!! Petvet,Davepr,Relady Wallace,Avondale, RMA and anybody out there that thinks you're alone for the Holidays or feels nobody cares that watches this thread.

Hello Everyone,
As EC would say, "Good Morning"!
"A new day and new things to discover".
I'm going to try to keep it light today everyone... if I can.
I just want to wish one and all a very "Happy Thanksgiving", first and foremost.
I hope everyone has something planned for this "Holiday". We could all use the break, I'm sure.
Prayers and blessings during this time to all.. Petvet, RMA, Dave, EC, avondale, relady, and all the other people here on "MBers".
May the Lord bless you always.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Hi All,

I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving as well.

I'm off to San Diego for the weekend, I hope the sun is shining. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I'll try to stick to this thread with you guys for a while, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As I've said before, this is the best thread on this forum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've tryed posting other places and it's not the same. And when newcomers come here to post, they don't hear much whining and crying, so they leave because they really don't want good, solid advice, go figure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

For me, although I'm not an experienced MBer like some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have gotten life changing advice from everyone here. Not only is it important to hear, it is also important to do and many people don't want to do the hard stuff, like changing their lives!

rma, davepr, petvet, wallace, avondale, Have a Blessed Day tomorrow, I am thankful for all of you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady

Hell to all my BEST FRIENDS!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Here is a brief note to each of you below, but know that I care about each of you.

EC,

I still suspect your exW may have been evicted, or she may be moving around to either avoid rent or to avoid being found to be served those CS modification papers! Either way, this woman does not play straight or fair in any aspect of her life. Keep emailing your duaghters until you can found out what is going on and where they are. They may be keeping you out of the loop thinking they are "protecting" their Mom, somehow. You can only know that you are doing the right things by your girls by trying to contact them, whether they respond or not.

avondale,

Canm I say "load of cr@p"!?!?!? I have myt masters and have done all the course work for a PhD, but have never finished the dissertation. I have several national certifications, in addition. By contrast, my guy friend has taken college courses (2 - 3 years worth) but never did finish any degree. What attracts one to another person - is it the "ststus" afforded by a degree (MD, PhD, JD, etc)? That is pretty shallow. I am attracted to a person who is articulate and interesting, loyal and faithful, loving and family-oriented. I have found these endearing qualities in a person without a degree. I have known many men who have much more education, who do not possess one quality that is important to me. That is just an EXCUSE. He must feel really low self-esteem, if he feels he needs a highly degreed wife to make him feel happy. Prayers for your meeting tonight!

Petvet,

Ah, you are beginning to know me quite well, my friend. I would be embarrased to write out all the food I am cooking for tomorrow. I will have many, many dishes, but will try to cook smaller quantities so as to minimize the copious leftovers. I decided not to make pies - will have 2 desserts (I always have 2) - a chocolate delight (sorta like a cross between a chocate pie and a cheesecake) and either frosted brownies of a cinnamon spice cake. I am having 10 and all of them young but me and the guy, so I am leaning toward the brownies for the young-uns. Can't be on here too much as I am trying to put together everything that can be done ahead, today, including cleaning the silver and setting the table - china, crystal, silver and fresh flowers - nothing is too good for my family! I treat them like the best company I could possibly have, because they are!

davepr,

Glad you were able to secure another job within your company. That surely must take the load off you! Best of luck with the new job. When do you start?

relady,

You go, girl! Gosh, I am so proud of you! I could not imagine going to a concert at the same stage aas where you are now. I* am so happy you have such a good attitude! Of course, if I had known then what I know now, I may have been able to save myself at least some of the emotional torment I went through. Who was playing?

Hope I haven't missed anyone. Lord, I give Thee thanks for each person here and pray for the restoration of "self". Amen.

God bless you and your families, RMA

Hey Y'all
I realize as I write this that you're probably all gone for Thanksgiving. Please accept my belated "Thanksgiving Wishes" too. I read all your notes and appreciate ALL the feedback and encouragement!

Much to my surprise, my daughter met her dad for lunch today, last minute arrangement. She called me afterwards and -drum roll please - TA DA! ! She now realizes for herself that he is under the influence of some "evil force". I think she thought that she could just tell him how she feels (hurt, angry, upset, embarrassed, etc..) and he'd somehow understand and want to change. She saw first-hand, for herself how much deception he is under about his current choices and situation.

Fast forward to tonight...he comes over, we make small talk for a few minutes. I think from my perspective it went very well. I was able to rebut everything he said, point out a few fallacies, and poke a few holes in his excuses. The only thing we totally agreed on was our "spiritual differences" which basically means he no longer holds to any belief in God, Bible, etc... The fog is confirmed and still very thick - he felt his lunch with daughter went "great" and that "things will be fine between them" and "his parents support him more than he expected they would" (both of which aren't true).

So all in all, I think things went well because I had clarity when I spoke, didn't cry, and made good points. The chat with daughter produced good results in that she saw for herself what we're up against; only God can change his heart. I'm so thankful she is mature for her age!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and thanks for being here to support me . Y'all are the greatest! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dave , congrats on the job, glad it worked out for you so easily!

Thanks Avondale... I am glad meeting with WS went as well as expected, although I am sorry he is still deep in the fog.. I pray that God helps him come out of it soon.

I did alot of reflecting today... mostly on being thankful for all our health.... but last year I had Thanksgiving by myself, my FWS had Thanksgiving with the kids and OM.. wow, how things can change in a year..... I remember last year that I treated Thanksgiving as just another day... I kept busy, did some work around the house, and then had a sandwich and a
bowel of soup for dinner.. Today, we spent Thanksgiving as a family, with my sister and brother-in-law from NY, and some neighbors...
it was a good time... Last year I went the entire day without speaking to anyone.... I probably did some posting here but that was it, no phone calls, no conversation,etc.. I wish that all marriages could be worked out but I know that is not the case but I do know that in the end we will all find happiness. I wish that there did not have to be some much pain in this world...
I know that going through this is the worst pain ... until you have experienced it no one else has any idea.. The one that we all share here is that we all know how much pain an A and seperation and/or divorce can cause.
You guys and gals have been here for me through the bad time and the good times, I just wanted to thank you for that, God bless you, I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving. Please take care yourselves.
Dave

Hello Everyone Its Me, Fudderfickle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ,

Hope your Thanksgiving went great and ate as much as you could.

I spent my day at my Aunts house with about 40 people there so things were busy. I go over there every holiday since I've been back and on my own now. They began flipping through old photo albums she had pictures of my wedding 1983 I never knew existed, they were shots and scenes I never saw before of the wedding and reception, I was taken back in surprize, so that stirred up some tears of emotions <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , then I had to remember "Let go" its dead.

OD/YD never called on Thanksgiving, I find this odd and strange. At this point I don't know if should file a missings person report or not? If something has happened and I don't file something I'll look like the irresponsible father that had no concern. At the same time I don't want to blow it up bigger than what it is either, OD/YD could just be having fun as teenagers not aware of what a Holiday call means.....but I haven't heard from them in weeks?

One concern is that if I spoke to them I was going to ask where are they? If exw is in hiding I'm sure she would keep them away from me. Maybe her car is in repo status again? Maybe she did get evicted? At this point regardless she is in violation of our dissolution agreement about the kids, I should know where they are [address] at all times. Hard to know whats happening when you're 1,200 miles apart.

Hope eveyone can learn from this of what I'm going through that not all fathers who have lost contact with there kids, is there fault, never tried and did it on purpose. As you see I tried to keep communication, visit, buy gifts, etc only to almost be taken to jail falsely over child support issues that had nothing to do with my faithfulness of paying. So there are some honest guys of Integrity trying to do the right thing and pay but who are also dealing with women who lost there marbles, when I hear the term [deadbeat father] I see now you have to know the whole story before you judge, many fathers are innocent and tried hard.

Take Care....

EC
I'm glad you had a relative to be with yesterday, but sorry you had the pictures dredge up memories for you on Thanksgiving.

Your daughters should definitely have called you and your exwife should have made sure they did. I would file a report of whatever kind is appropriate. You need to do it for several reasons: 1) to cover yourself just in case something happens, or it is used to prove you don't have an interest in their welfare, and 2) to hopefully find out where they are, and 3) it's a matter of principle, since it's part of your dissolution agreement. Will this cost you anything?

And as for your last paragraph, you have NEVER seemed like one of those deadbeat dads, so don't worry about anyone thinking you are. It is obvious you have integrity and are trying to do the right thing. You have more patience than most people in your situation.

Avondale - It wouldn't cost me anything to file a report I'm going to do that today here shortly...If I don't they could twist it around on me...Yes, she should have made sure they called, even today if possible, just to let me know they're ok. They didn't call me on fathers day this year either but as least I knew where they were, maybe I shouldn't be so surprized but I thought we all OD/YD grew and progressed into a new restored relationship since then, so I don't know whats happening...When YD left me a message a few weeks ago the she got the TV, at the end of the message she said, Love you dad, I'll try to call you later..

Davepr - Thats some great progress and growth, keep up the good work...

Hi all!

I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

EC: Idea! Why don't you file a missing persons report for your kids? I mean you don't know where they are. Your exw needs to be held accountable. Let law enforcement get involve and do the dirty work for you. How about child protection services?
Just an idea. You are a good father. I wish you would have gone for custody.

Me: I spent most of Thanksgiving by myself. I spent a hour or two with mom, cousin, and aunts. Kid was with his mom until late afternoon. For the past four or five years, I have hated the
holidays.

Later.

Hello, all.

My Thanksgiving was great - had 10 0ver and we had a wonderful time. Lots of good food, if I must say so.

EC,

I really feel your exW is having some major financial problems. It explains all the moving, and goes along with her history of having the car repossed. Look, maybe your daughters never called due to lack of a telephone and/or acess to long distance? Could be that the phone is shut off. I have no idea about the missing persons filing, but it wouldn't hurt to discuss with your local authorities. When you do get a chance to speak to your girls, offer them the chance to live with you. The 19 yo doesn't need her Mom's permission, and maybe not even the YD. You can provide them with a stable home and if they are being constantly evicted/juggled around, this might seem like the "life preserver" it really is.

Many prayers and hugs for you, EC.

To all, including Petvet - use the holiday time to focus on what blessing you DO have - your son is a major part of your life. See that others here don't have that and would love to have that. Try to focus on your blessings and more joy will come into your heart and your life!

God bless all, RMA