Hi All,

Petvet - I see you're ready to move on with W still having OM, I understand.

Relady - Sending a card? that's a tough choice sometimes, the advice you got is one source from a BS org and the other a WS. Erin being a guy knows what tore him up the most I would go with his advice and not meet the emotional need. I remember I was sending my WW letters and cards in the first 5 months thinking she was pitching them because she was showing so much hate only to discover in secret she was carrying around every letter and card I ever sent her, daily. My heart just melted and tears came to my eyes because they looked so worn, yet she still gives me the impresion this day Dv was the best thing ever.

If I sent her a letter today I know she would carry it around...

Me: This weekend I stepped back looked in the past back to yr 2000, I prayed this weekend and asked the Lord to remove ALL bitterness and unforgivess I have toward my exw and bring me to a place of forgiveness and praise. My exw owes me a debt she could never repay and on top of that she knows she has committed a great sin against herself, i'm sure she wrestles with daily yet she chooses to live in it.

I want forgivness for myself, I'm at the point of letting go of the accusation despite what she did was real and hurt. Each time I've gotten to this point in the past she would afflict me all over again with OM now it don't matter. In the past months my hurt and jealousy got the best of me, I'm now on my way up and out of the pit. I want restored to full measure.

Joel 2
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. 26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Thanks to all for the welcome!

I do have one question though: It has been torturous enduring this period of time, my divorce will not be final until Jan at the earliest & I was just wondering how each of you have coped with the feelings & pain that come with knowing your WW has betrayed you & is living with the OM before the divorce is even final.

I know ultimately they no longer should have any meaning in our lives or control over how we feel, but it is very hard just trying to cope with everyday obligations sometimes. Any thoughts would be appreciated!!!

Hi Everyone,

Hope your week is going great and making some progress. Hard to to believe in almost 2 weeks we'll be in 2003.

I had an interesting thing occur. This guy and his wife I've known for almost 1 year now that interact with weekly are having serious marriage problems and I don't know what to say or even how to encourage them. The problem that they are having is a major "Trust" issue. The marriage was birth from an affair, they seduced each other, the guy was the WS his now wife was the OW. I was told he came from a perfectly striving marriage of 15 years. His wife [OW] is highly suspicious now and is chasing everyone away, they've been married for about 2-3 years and just had a baby recently, she took his cellphone from him and started answering and returning calls he was recieving from people, if only a number appeared she called them back herself. They are doing much arguing and fighting, it's really falling apart.

I don't know what to say to him, he knows I'm a BS and is currently trying to recover from betrayal and DV....He's overheard me before talking about the deception I went through with my WW, so he somewhat keeps me at a distant but we speak. They are both hurting but I find it difficult to give any advice because it was all built on deception and the whole foundation was wrong from the start. I told my exw her relationship would fail because how it was started with OM invading my home. So this is tough...Any thoughts?
***************

Lostsoul - How well and how long your marriage was prior to D-day or DV determines how much a person sufffers, each case is different. Mine has been tough because we were together for 21 years married for 17-18. The Lord has helped me to deal with a lot, I have lots of friends, family and MB partners. The pain eases as time goes by, I find myself going in stages of walking out of it, sometimes set backs. My biggest mistake has been putting myself in a position to be afflicted all over again before she was ready acknowledge her part of the failure of the relationship. I was trying to reach out to her when she still wasn't sorry. I got stung many times. So here one response I'm sure you'll get others.

Take Care

EC
That's sad about your friends. You are going to be coming from a totally opposite standpoint than where they are at. They probably realize that too, if you've shared anything about your situation. I would guess they don't know what to say around you, either. Trust is one of the BIG issues, in my book.

However, if you want to reach out to them, you could always just say something along the lines of "If you ever want to talk...." and let it go at that. I am sure that would be a sincere offer on your part, without you having to "water down" your opinion at all. Or let them know you're praying for them (as I'm sure you are). And it would show them that you do care about them, as people, regardless of their circumstances. Sometimes the simplest statements can carry a lot of power.

Hi Everyone,

avondale...

In regards to your daughter and "H" exchanging gifts during this Sunday, and you feeling kind of depressed. I think it's only normal to feel what you are feeling.

For all intense and purposes... your being left out of a family tradition that you most probably have been involved since day one (exchanging of gifts for Christmas with family) and now, it has changed to what it is today.

I had a similiar feeling, when I learned that my OD was communicating with her mother, she wouldn't call home until recently to talk with her brother and sister, but she would talk to her mother after all that her mother did to the family... that one hurt.

It's unfortunately one of the many changes that we are going to have to adapt to as time goes on.

Sometimes it is hard accepting these changes that we are not familiar with. I believe that as we progress through these changes, in time... we will learn to accept them and deal with them on a point by point basis.

It's not easy, but unfortunately it's something we will have to deal with.

I think after you and I and many of us on this board get through this holiday, it will get better over time.

EC...

In my Divorce group at Church... it has been said many times that in order for us to truly heal and move forward, we have to forgive our spouses for what they have done.

Pray for them... that the Lord will fill their spirit, and they themselves will seek the salvation of God. Only then can we truly heal and move forward with our lives.

It appears your doing just that... stay the course, and keep up the good work!

Lostsoul...

I can only give you my perspective on the question that you asked, as I'm sure each persons answer will be somewhat different... but here goes.

For me... my exW will always have a place in my heart. I was married to her for almost 24 yrs.

It was one of the most painful things I have ever gone through in my life. To this day, there has not been a single day that has passed, that I have not had at least a brief thought of her.

For me... feelings for my exW just don't go away over night, if ever.

Thoughts of her will dwindle over time, but I cannot erase all of the history that me and my exW had completely.

Some days are better than others... it is a rollercoaster ride of emotions, make no mistake about it. Even when the "D" was final, the emotions still kept going, they didn't go away.

I coped with it all, and to this day still do... bY giving it over to the Lord.

By doing this, it didn't mean that all of my pain went away, or you will never have another bad day. What it does mean... IMHO, is that it's comforting to know that he is with you and you are not alone... and he will lead you to a better place if you give him the opportunity.

Put your faith in the Lord, and let his blessings come upon you. It won't be easy, but you will get through it.

Petvet, relady, Dave, and RMA...

Hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi All,

Ok, so which one of you were jealous of my 80 degree weather and sent a hale storm my way? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It's been raining so hard, I was stuck in my car watching the hale hit my window. That's the last time I'll do any bragging about my weather. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

It was probably you since you think I should let the tears fall without my sunglasses <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There probably will be a great amount of difficulty in talking to your friends without telling them how you really feel Like how can they expect to be happy when their relationship is based on lies and deception, and that they are only 'reaping what they sowed'.

IMHO, I wouldn't offer them any advice except to share scripture about their situation and probably wouldn't care to associate with them. My view is, if it was so easy to lie, deceive their spouses, what would they do to me? I am very careful in my selection of associates.

Maybe that's a little harsh, but real.

Avondale

I know it feels wierd to be left out of the gift exchange. You never know how the Lord may use your daughter to get through to your H. Pray with her before she goes and allow the Holy Spirit to choose her words. God is in the middle of all our situations working them out for our good. We've got to hold on to that, otherwise; we become defeated. Not easy but 'doable'. I think that's a word. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

LS,

Welcome to 'our humble thread' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I can't answer your question, because I have not experienced it that I know of. But someone here can. Collectively we are a powerhouse of information and experience, so you're in good hands <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Davepr

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It will be exciting to see where we are in our lives at this same time next year.

Wallace

I won't be able to wear my sunglasses now that 'El Nino' is on the way. Do you want to borrow them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet, RMA, WGTT, Hope you're all well.

relady

Hi all:

Relady: As far as the card is concern, it one of those case by case issues. Last year, I gave a card and present mostly because I was still after reconciliation. This year I will give a gift with my son. If I was in your shoes, I would not send anything. I was listening to a tape by the Rev. Frederick K.C. Price from your neck of the woods. The tape is on Wife/Husband/Sex/etc. He spoke about trust and said that if one is truely yolked in his/her faith. One would want to know whether they had a keeper or not, in other words, you would want to know whether you had a good mate or not. If you don't have a good mate, they will either shapeup or shipout because they know that you are a person of faith. You cannot be married to someone you cannot trust. You need to take care of business, so that you can be completely yolked with someone else who wants you. It has been said to me several times and I have heard this from several pastors, many WS's cheating is part of their character. You are lucky that you don't have any kids with your guy.

Avondale: Part of my message to Relady was meant for you as well. You are upset because you want people to feel your pain from what your WH has done to you. I know your hurt. At some point Avondale, you must start to get empowered. You will get there. You have to get to that point at your own pace. You need to start making plans for the holidays.I'M SERIOUS. This way you won't be seating around feeling sorry for yourself. I am making plans to not be a home by myself during the holidays, so I am planing some short trips away just to get away from the house and having the holiday blues. THAT'S EMPOWERMENT.

P.S.- Relady, Stop crying about your wet weather. We on the east coast are freezing our buns off while you guys on the west coast are still walking around in shorts. What's worst is that your wet weather will probably become our ice and snow in a couple of days.

Next, I am on a roll.

EC: With due respect to your friends, give me a f----- break (please forgive my Portugese). These guys' relationship was started under false pretense in the first place, now they wonder why they are having trust issues. PLEASE!

Wallace: Yes, four months later for a birthday gift is beyond belated especially when you are trying to kiss up. Your exw and mil are so sneaky, but so obvious. I am convince that you will handle your relationship with lady buddy well. Lord knows we on this thread have beat you up enough on this issue. What are you getting her for Christmas? No metals or precious commodities
please.

Me: Well, so much for settling my divorce before the end of the year. w's attorney will not even respond to my attorney's request to talk. I guess w does not want to cooperate. To court it will be.

Later.

Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing well today.

EC...

I wouldn't concern yourself with your friends "M" problem. As Petvet eluded... "it was conceived under lies and deceit. A relationship buiLt on a foundation of sand (lies, deception), most likely will not stand for very long.

Tell them about MBers and tell them to seek out the Lord. Maybe they can get some insight from some posters here on MBers that have been in the same situation as they are.

I would concentrate on you for now and not concern yourself with their problem.

relady...

You can come over here to Colorado... the "Vacation Capital" of the U.S..

It doesn't do much of anything where we are. No snow, no rain, nothing... that's why were in a drought... just pure sunshine for the most part, day in and day out.

The ski resorts are getting pretty good snow, but that is about it.

I might need those sunglasses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You never know when one of those triggers are going to hit... but I'm holding up pretty good so far. I owe it all to the Lord, for without him... I would be in pretty bad shape right about now.

Go ahead and hang onto them... I have soup though if you need any of that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

I bounce back pretty good. I've been beat up a lot worse by my exW with all her antics... all the advice that has been given to me here was all good advice. I never considered that I was being picked on.

Now... on to the good stuff. You can start beating on me now.

What did I get my "lady friend" for Christmas?

"Drum roll please".

I got her in no paticular order the following.

A very petite gold cross necklace. (Go ahead and start beating on me... LOL.)

A brown leather coat and a very warm sweater to go with it, and that is it.

I'm glad to hear that you are marching forward with your Christmas plans. It's good to hear that your taking the steps to insure yourself a nice time.

Don't worry about your marital situation during the holidays. Give yourself a break away from it during the holiday... I'm sure you can use it.

The bad part is, it will probably still be there waiting for you when the New Year starts.

avondale, Dave, RMA...

Hope everything is going well for you today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi All,

Whoa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Somebody get Petvet some heat in his office, he's on brain freeze! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

Jealously is a terrible thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I spent most of my life on the East coast so now.. " "I can cry if I want to, cry if I want to.....LOL

Thank you for the great advice though, I am very familiar with Dr. Price's ministry. He is an awesome man of God. And my husband and I were definitely unequally yoked. I didn't realize it until after we were married or I overlooked it because I gave in to my emotions.

Since he hasn't actually given me his address, even though I know it. I've decided not to send a card. I don't want to appear to be a 'stalker'!

Wallace,

I don't need soup but I could use a petite cross, and a brown leather coat, forget the sweater though. WOW That's some Christmas present. Know her size already, do ya?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And to all others

Stay away from this thread until Petvet gets heat in his office or it's summertime, whichever comes first!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God bless,
relady

Petvet ,
"Ouch" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I didn't realize (or mean to) sound whiney. Actually, I feel at least a 50% empowerment level, LOL. And I HAVE done stuff for the holidays - I decorated outside and inside and have done some shopping, wrapped a few things last night, and will finish (hopefully) tomorrow. Don't worry, I won't be sitting around by myself. I'll be with my family (which now consists of my dad), but that will be enough. Thanks for the advice, though!

I'm sorry your D is dragging on and you'll have to carry it into 2003. I know that's not what you wanted at all!

I will ask Santa to stop by Lowes and get you a ceramic heater, item # 3198, which sells for $44.95. I have one; they work well and heat up a room quickly.

Wallace, why do you think we'd want to beat you?!? Unless....oh well, never mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If that's what you get someone who is your FRIEND then you're setting yourself up for spending thousands if she becomes Mrs. Wallace!

Relady , I had forgotten you didn't "know" his address, so I think you're doing the right thing by not sending the card.

Hope everyone else is doing well!

And all the places y'all have described (west coast, Colorado) sound like wonderful places to visit....I'll be planning a vacation soon, so keep the light on for me!

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

There is so much to do before I leave Fri AM. I am trying to stay calm and just keep working at stuff. My customers have been slow getting me what needed to move their projects along ...... car has to go into the shop so at 6:30 will leave so I am first in line ...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I haven't posted much or read a whole lot on this board & it feels strange. It's likely to be next week when I get settled at my Moms. It's been 70 here & 20's and 30's where I am headed.

Just wanted to throw this out & get input.
I have been looking for good safe used car for D (16) to drive. I have SUV so would drive car as well. For the price range I had in mind, a 96 BMW, IMMACULATE condition, all service done ( I know the owners) brand new top of the line Michelin's just put on. I would love to drive this car & have said before it would be great to have SUV & BMW. BUT, I don't feel entirely comfortable have 16 YO D drive it. It 's a very safe car, but....it has a lot of power .....plus even tho it's the same price (it's a bargain) as much lesser cars I don't want my D thinking she is hot sh** cuz it's a nice car. Any thoughts????

God Bless,

D.

WGTT
Just a few things came to my mind about your D's car which you might want to consider. Of course, you may have already thought of them, too, but just in case...

1) You have other children, so would they expect same scenario for them?
2) What did you do for your oldest child when he/she turned 16? Is this car comparable to that?
3) Isn't the maintance on a BMW somewhat costly? Who would be responsible for that, her or you (or H)?
4) What about the personality of your 16 YO ? Is she pretty grounded? Does she have questionable friends? Are her choices (both in driving and otherwise) good? How mature is she? The answers to these may reflect if she can emotionally "handle" being a hotshot Beamer owner.

On the other hand, maybe it would boost her self-esteem (we know how these family problems we're having affect our kids). And I think it's been documented that as teens, girls are better drivers than guys. (Can't wait to catch the flack from THAT statement, LOL)

Hope you have a great trip to visit your mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi all:

Avondale & Relady: Ouch, ouch, ouch! Boy that hurts. Please no more, I submit. I wave the white flag. Okay, I will invest in a heater. Relady: Yes, I am jealous of your hot weather. Envy is the greatest compliment.Boy, Relady & Avondale, you guys are brutal.

Wallace: Real nice gifts.Can I be your girlfriend? (OK, Avondale & Relady: DON'T GO THERE!!!) Just kidding. Wallace, I'm really kidding. I hope she likes the gifts. I wish I had someone to share holidays. There is only one way
to go: first class. Due to my current unresolved situation, I am doing flowers.

Later.

Hi Everyone,

relady...

With all that nice warm weather that you are probably having there, you probably don't need a sweater... LOL.

You paid your dues by living on the "East Coast" like I did... so you are entitled to all the nice weather you can get. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Your probably wondering how I knew my "lady friend's" clothing size. It was real simple... I asked her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'm not sure if the things I bought her will fit her, but we are going to find out... LOL.

Like avondale, I had forgotten that you didn't know his address. I agree with avondale and I think you made the wise decision by not sending anything (card or otherwise) to him. it will definitely send the wrong message. You don't want him to think that you are pursuing him at all.

WGTT...

avondale had a great set of questions that you should consider before making the plunge to buy your daughter a "beamer".

One thing to consider is the cost of maintaining the car. BMWs are well built cars, but when things start going wrong with them, it can get very expensive. Would you pay for the maintenance?

I have to agree with avondale again... girls are better drivers than boys... when they are in their teens they are better drivers.

But something happens to the girls as time goes on. they get sloppy... they become preoccupied while driving with other things... like their hair, make-up, lipstick etc., and they feel the need to take care of these things while they are driving down the road at... let's say 80mph.

While all these items are being attended to... wham!!! you have an accident then another accident, and the cycle just keeps repeating itself, over and over and over again.

So... in the long run... guys are much better drivers than girls... even though we pay much higher insurance premiums than the girls do... LOL j/k.

Don't flame me now... I was just kidding... I was just trying to throw a little humor in on the day and throw everyone a curve... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

avondale...

I don't think that you want to beat me. From time to time... I do need a good thump on the head though. Just to straighten me back out... LOL.

Mrs. Wallace?

I shudder to even think of such a thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know... I'm starting to like being single again. I didn't think I would... but I am very slowly starting to get back into it again. I have my moments when I wish that I was still married and I think that is only natural... but I know I could never go back to what I just came out of.

If your planning a vacation... we will keep the candles burning for you. It snowed here for about a half hour after saying it hasn't done anything here... the weather is very strange in Colorado... it always been that way since I have been in this town.

Petvet...

You need some bandages? I have soup too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Are you getting into the holiday spirit yet? I know you got the cold winter part of it down... but are you ready to go for Christmas?

I still haven't put up my tree yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As far as sharing your holidays with someone. In time you will. It can be a double edged sword at times. One moment you pine for what was, and in the next moment you are moving forward with your new life. It's a day to day process that takes some getting use to.

Dave, EC, RMA, and Lostsoul...

I hope you are all having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Hi All,

I hope you're all making this a wonderful day.

Petvet

I'm all through crying, my sunglasses are back on, even opened my sunroof. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Today, I'm lovin' life. I'm praying I'll get through the holidays in this mindset.

Wallace,

I didn't think you did something obvious such as asking your 'ladyfriend' her size, duh! We all want to be your friend with those gifts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just remember you have to continue in the way you start <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT,

I think a BMW may be a bit much for a 16 YO. She may be mature, but can she make the insurance payments and handle the maintenance? Insurance will be quite expensive for her. Nissans are safe cars and the maintenance is very low. When my son was 16 I got a used one for him and it lasted through college. Just a thought.

Avondale,

I think we've been very 'kind' to the guys lately, don't you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That proves we have the Holiday spirit. LOL

Rma, davepr, ls

Hope all is well.

God bless,
relady

To all,

I am leaving in the morn and won't be back until late Christmas Eve. Wishing you all a wonderful holiday!!!

A couple quick thoughts....Petvet, I'm gonna fight you to be Wallace's girlfriend, haha!! Wallace, you call this SLOWING DOWN???????? Gosh, I'd shudder to think of you going all out!! WGTT, a 16 yo will be a 16 yo, so the BMW or the SUV is a toss-up. Most important to make sure your teen is a safe and cautious driver, no matter what kind of vehicle!

To all travelling, be safe. To those at home, be comfortable. To each of you...'tis the season of love and caring. Know that many, many wonderful people love and care about YOU!

Blessings to all, RMA

RMA...

I don't know if your still on the boards, but you have a safe trip and have a very "Happy Holiday".

Yes I know, I'm not doing a very good job of slowing down. I'm going to have to have my brakes checked... I think I might need new brake shoes.

Have a Happy Holiday RMA.

God's blessings to you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a good day.

relady...

OK... gifts for everyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're right though... once you start it, you have to continue it. Where's that darn brake pedal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm glad you and avondale are in the holiday spirit... no beatings for this week... LOL.

Well I'm taking off early from work today and I'm going to put up my Christmas tree... YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi everyone, we are leaving for my W families house tomorrow, will not be back until Friday.
I wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and
happy holidays. Thanks for all the support you have given to me over the last year.
God Bless,
Dave

Hey Y'all,
I know some have already gone out of town...guess I'm behind in my Merry Christmas greetings! Just imagine this post is in red & green font with holiday lights all around the edge. Maybe some snow in the background... Too bad we can't do fancy URL things here, I have great graphics.

Petvet , I'm sorry you got "ouchies" from my post, because that is the opposite of what I intended. I was trying to build a bridge but I guess it didn't work. Anyway, totally aside from that, you've been on my mind all day. You doing OK ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />