I feel like I need to explain my last question further. In stating that I need to work out my definition of unfaithfulness, I'm trying to more accurately establish boundaries. It's obvious that affairs are unacceptable. So is repeated personal contact with another lady but where exactly do you draw the line?? If it's supposedly a few phone calls or e-mails to an old friend, is that enough to divorce over? This was the scenario last year. They both said it wasn't any more involved than that. But, within the context of our situation, with the given history, it was enough to greatly damage the trust factor and to make it all the more challenging to continue. That is why I'm trying to be mentally prepared if something like that should occur again. Do I make any sense?? It seems things with my husband are often cloudy. He can often seem so innocent so I find myself confused in my response.

Avondale, you asked if I am seeing a counselor. I've seen counselors off and on the past five years. I've counseled with my pastor and other "professionals". I also have a good friend who is a therapist. So I've received a good amount of help. Most of the counsel I've received has been from Christian counselors. They seem to generally have the take that it really could go either way. They feel I've Biblical grounds for a divorce, but I could certainly choose to continue to remain married and wait for God to do a miracle. They all concur that this is an unusual and difficult situation.

Thanks to all of you. I hope you are all doing well. God bless.

Hi All &#8211; It's a dreary day here, hope you have sunshine where you're at! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Leah - I understood that what you meant had to do with boundaries. And all I can respond is my personal opinion, and I'll probably ramble, lol... Does your H know that the "repeated personal contact / email with an old friend makes you feel uncomfortable"? (It would make me feel uncomfortable, too.) I mean, have you told him that in no uncertain terms? If so, and he continues, then you have a boundary issue, and a counselor may help. Has he seen a counselor with you? Or is it just you, going alone? Or does he deny there is a problem of trust in your marriage, or say it's all YOUR problem? And I can't recall, but did you actually read Dobson's Tough Love book?

Ultimately, no one can tell you what kind of boundaries to have; that's something you must do yourself. And they need to be boundaries that you can live with, because when they're broken, that provokes another action on your part. Hence we have Tough Love. Otherwise, why have boundaries? But then you get into the "greasy grace" kind of situation...if the boundary is broken, doesn't grace cover a multitude of infractions? Should you have mercy? How much? I think that's probably where you are at right now. If I were you, rely on the people who love you and know you best, and pray about whatever they tell you before you act.

BTW, have you gotten any legal advice since all this happened five years ago? And I'm guessing you're under 40 yrs old; how old are your kids? Those answers will play into my next rambling message, LOL...

Hi all! I am finally back in one peace. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Leah2be: A belated welcome from me. I am sorry to hear about your WH issues. I would have to agree with Wallace that I would do Plan A while he is in recuperation, but I would recommend Plan B when he participates in his other wandering activites. It's hard to determine what to do when the person is still living with you. It is very stressful because you are always wondering whether your spouse is being truthful or just lying. Hopefully, he will come around, but if he continues his negative activites, then you will have to make a decision what you want to do. 1. Take the punishment, do nothing, and stay stagnant, or 2. become proactive and work for the positive whether it's with him or not. Most importantly is, can I withstand this going forward? Also, Talk to us as much as you need to. I am not going anywhere.

EC: Your ex is getting what she deserves. She is back where she started.

Avondale: I am busy, busy, busy. My computer issues have thrown me so far behind. That ---- BUG! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> How are you doing?

Wallace: What's up bud! 2005, hmmmmmmmm? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WGWH: Sorry, I got the lettering wrong. You have gone on a tear. I will have to read your thread later.

Me: Now, time to go jogging.

And I'm gone.

Happy Wednesday Everyone!!


PETVET,

It was good to hear from you. So sorry for your computer difficulties. That can be so frustrating. Hope you can get caught up soon. Hope everything else in your life is going well.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, it is most difficult to not know whether you have truth or lies in a marriage. The reason I'm not currently in Plan B is because as far as I now know he is currently being faithful. BUT, I feel like I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm trying to get my ducks in a row and be ready should that happen. One of the ways I'm trying to be prepared is by having a good handle on the boundaries issues. So... we shall see.

AVONDALE,

Hi there! I don't think you ramble at all. My husband tells me I talk in circles, so maybe we speak the same language. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Let's see if I can answer some of your questions.Yes, I've read Tough Love, twice. Maybe I need to read it again and memorize it this time. lol.

My husband has seen a counselor with me but it was only when he was in the throes of being in love with another. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> So, we weren't concentrating on our relationship but dealing with other issues at the time.

As far as communicating my feelings about contact with other women, I've let him know this is totally unacceptable to me. So the problem is with boundaries. My issues seem to primarily be with "So what do I do now???" He will admit guilt(as in,"I wouldn't like it either" not like "I was more involved than I should have been". He will say it was just calls or e-mails meant in friendship) tell me he's so sorry, he didn't mean to hurt me, he loves me and wants the marriage to work...

Then I'm left with the "greasy grace" scenario. I love that term. I never heard it before. lol. Then I'm left wondering how I'm suppose to respond. The last time was nine months ago. I guess thats why I'm "gearing up" again for something. I'm seriously considering going to see a counselor to address the whole boundary thing. I need help knowing how to respond to my husband. Not only with this issue but many others. He can be very unkind at times. Not physically but emotionally.

Let's see... age question. I'm 42 and our girls are 8,10 and 12. Next, legal question, Yes, I've been to see an attorney four or five times now. Financially, husband has had plenty of time to manipulate money situation. He could have it stashed just about anywhere. He has total control of the funds. I work part time but he just gives me less money than the usuall given amount for any money I make. I'm not so sure I've worded that very good. Hope you can decipher my greek. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Talk about rambling... I win hands down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How are you doing Avondale? Any news from your husband? Are you holding up okay? My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope you have a good day!

EC and WALLACE, I hope you both are doing well.

I wonder how many of those reading this thread have read " Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley? If so, at what point in your affair/recovery cycle did you read it; and did you apply it (and just as importantly, did your WS apply it) wholeheartedly if you were in recovery?

Leah's postings brought that book to my mind, and so I found my copy (haven't needed it that much since after hubby moved out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ). Leah, have you read it? I would strongly recommend it, and also would ask you to consider making an appointment with one of the Harleys. I have talked to Steve Harley several times, and the insight and direction I got in 50 minutes with him far outweighed the counseling sessions received from our local counselor (both individually and with hubby).

In particular, there are chapters in Surviving an Affair that deal with Preparing for Marital Recovery, and The Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery. Here's a link for them, they're in the middle of the page, so you may need to scroll down to find it: Four Rules

I know there is so much info at the MB site that sometimes the articles and stuff get lost. But this is what I would recommend for consideration if your H is agreeable to working on the marriage.

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Hi All,

WGTT...

I was wondering how you were doing. It seems like the circus ride you have been on, is slowly coming to a halt. I'm so happy to hear that your "H" is coming out of the fog. Has he moved back home yet, and if not, what are his plans for the long term?

Keep up the good work, and keep us informed as things progress. it's always good to hear good news.

Let's see... that would make three people from this thread who managed to get back with their spouses. WGTT, Free, and Dave.

I'll say prayers for you WGTT, and hope everything goes into a positive direction for you.

Leah...

As far as setting boundaries with your "H", and considering what has happened in the past in your "M", and is he still being faithful now... my take on it is like this.

Once you have trusted someone, and they have turned around and violated that trust... it takes a long time for that trust to be rebuilt.

"Trust is not given... it is earned". Especially after a continued violation of your trust.

My G/F had a "H", and I had a wife, and I know many people unfortunately that have been with a spouse that just when you would begin to trust them again... they would go out and jerk it all up and bring you right back to square one with everything, again, and again and again. Then they would say, "well how come you don't trust me"?

Well why do you think? Because your a sneak and a liar, and that has never changed.

My point being... your "H" should in fact be considering your feelings in regards to his communication with this other woman, no matter what they contend their relationship is. It makes it very difficult if not almost nearly impossible to build a happy and healthy "M" back up again when there is sideline type activity like this going on.

I may be cynical when it comes to things like this. But I have seen this and have lived this type of arrangement with my own marriage as well as seeing and hearing about it in other peoples marriages as well... and most of the time it does not have a happy ending. IMHO, I have found that most of the unfaithful spouses all have this special something... they lie continuously... about just about darn near everything. They have lied so often and for so long... they don't know how to tell the truth.

In short... LOL, I know I'm rambling, no question about it. I agree with what avondale has stated.

I'm glad to hear that your standing for your "M". One thing I would suggest... is sit down with your "H", and tell him your feelings. Once you have done this... I would sit back and watch. His actions and the Lord will tell you what direction your "M" may be heading.

Petvet...

Glad to hear you got your computer back to where you need it... it's good to have you back.

Yep... it looks like it's going to be 2005 for the big day. Only one problem... she isn't sure what month or day to do it. She wants to get "M" right now... but the timing is not right for me at the moment.

How is everything going on your end.

avondale...

Anything new coming from your "H" at this point?

Keep doing what your doing... only time and the Lord will be able to put it into perspective.

EC...

After reading your last post again and after what Petvet stated... it struck me... that in fact, she is back to square one again.

How are you holding up?

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Leah:In the end, it is up to you to decide what direction to go. I would have to agree with Wallace. Once the WS gets going down the lying road, they may mask what they are doing but in the end they still lie. The stress on the faithful party is unbearable.

Avondale: How are you handling things?

Wallace: Slow things down Big Guy (or Little Guy or In Between Guy). Take your time.

Me: I am taking my time. I am in no hurry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Later.

Hi All,

TGIF... it's been a very long week for me.

Petvet...

I was listening to Dr. Laura the other day. On this particular day it sounded like she said to a number of people with a similiar situation such as mine... that if you have been divorced and you have older kids... To not get "M" until all of your children are out of the house and on their own.

Anybody else hear this type of statement from any of the respected people in the field?

Well back to work... hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace
You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anybody else hear this type of statement from any of the respected people in the field? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I have definitely heard this, from someone who is in the field and very much respected. I heard it from a guy named Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and if I had the time, I'd look back at all the posts where you stated that was a requirement during the initial stage (and later, too) of "courtship" with your g/f. Stick to your guns, otherwise I think you're asking for trouble!

Petvet - I'm doing fine. I'm thinking of emailing hubby and asking him if he wants to get together again (for possible divorce planning purposes). I want to make sure I word it just right strategically - but some decisions need to be made soon, if nothing else, about a few household goods (and possibly that never-ending yardwork, too).

EC - What's new with you? Enjoying the spring? Are Wallace and Petvet getting you to think about dating?

Leah - Haven't heard from you in a few days. Is everything OK? Anything new? I know you have a lot to think/pray on. Keep us posted. You can email me if you want at avondale25@aol.com.

This week has been crazy !!!!!!
I have started in real estate @ at the beach. That is going very well. People literally come in the door and almost beg for properties. The appreciation here is fantastic and everyone wants a peice. I like the people that I'm working with and we truly work as a team.

FWH is still up North putting closure to the business. OW has supposedly moved to Atlantic City so thank God she has not been around. She used to stalk the place but I guess she got the picture when no one returned any of her many phone calls and last time she saw us drive away with a uhaul full of stuff.

Yes Avondale, I still sail. We did winter races and now into the main season. Tomorrow will be my first race as I've been away. It's an addiction- but a great one, I can't wait till it's time to sail.

FWH came home December 21st. It has gone better than I thought it would. There are ups and downs and no Avondale, he's not going to a 12 step program but that will be addressed when he gets back. It was part of my conditions to come home. So far, he hasn't done it on his own and I decided to wait till he cut his ties up north. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The rejoice ministries daily emails really helped me along with MB. The time spent working on me has really paid off. The recovery is easier because of it, but at times frustrating because I want FWH to catch up to me - fast ! God is working on him and had been for a long time.

It's good to stop back and see names I reconize as I can't say that about other parts of this board. I think about you guys (and girls) from time to time. What happened to RElady? I just scanned this thread & didn't see her name.

D.

Hi avondale,

I had a few moments at work to check in on the site, and I had to reply to your last post.

Thank you so much for the compliment... I wish I had the wisdom that all those people have... but I'm not even in the same league as they are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know something your right. I have posted that a number of times, and in my heart I know it's the right thing to do (wait for all the kids to go out on their own).

Also I think your right as well, as my G/F being somewhat manipulative as to the whole lets get "M" scenario.

In my heart... I think for success in this relationship that I am in right now... it is best to wait it out until the kids are all out and on their own. So all I have to do is convince my G/F that this is probably the best step to take for a long lasting relationship, without making her think I'm trying to get out of marrying her. She already thinks that I'm trying to not marry her... because I keep coming up with valid reasons why we should wait. When I propose them at first she doesn't like my ideas because she is all gungho on getting married... but when she follows along with my suggestions... she later realizes that they are working in both of our best interests.

I don't want to end up "D" ever again, and I want to make sure all the "T's are crossed and all the i's are dotted... before I take that step into "M" again.

I feel for you about the yard work. I'm still picking up from last years snow storm that we had over here. 52" of snow in a short period of time reaked havoc on all my trees.

Let us know, what your "H" decides after you send him your email.

Leah...

I hope you don't think I was being harsh with you in my last post to you.

Sometimes I come across that way... but in fact... I want to make sure you don't have to go through anymore pain in your "M". Nobody that is trying to save their "M" deserves that... and I just want you to be careful, and make sure you not setting yourself up for another fall.

Have a great weekend all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>

Hi all!

Avondale: I think you are ready to move on with your life; one way or the other. Am I correct?

Wallace: Yep, yep , yep. I have heard Dr. Laura make the statement you mentioned many many times. That's one of the things that buddy and I have talked about on several occasions. She has a girl who is 10. My kid is 7. Mixing families can be difficult. Everyone has their territory; not to mention dealing with the exs. My problem is I cannot vision being in one of those perpetual relationships that is going nowhere. I have always lost respect for older people dating five, ten, fifteen, twenty years or whatever length of time and not tying the knot. What bothers me about Dr. Laura statement is that she always criticizes folks who date for three or more years without getting married. I'm with you Wallace I don't want to end up in another divorce, but I don't want to be in a relationship that has no future either. I know I am not ready to get married. I want to make sure that all of my i's and t's are in order as well. Wallace, you and I have to think with our heads. When it's all said and done, we just might have to go it alone.

Leah: Don't be scared off! We mean no harm.

You know what has happen to Relady?

Later.

Petvet -
You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have always lost respect for older people dating five, ten, fifteen, twenty years or whatever length of time and not tying the knot </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Define "older people", LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> You mean older like me?? Seeing as how my dad is now in this category, I have a little different perspective, but I do agree with you. He will not marry the woman he's living with because they would both lose so many financial & health-related benefits. Since they're in their 70's, I don't see a marriage in their future at all. Fortunately I really like her a lot, and their financial matters are kept totally separate.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When it's all said and done, we just might have to go it alone </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that would be a total waste of all the MB principles y'all have learned! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady - I hope to see her, but she left and never returned, and didn't answer any emails I sent either.

Me - I'm ready to move on; however, I don't want to move on if it's not what God wants me to do. I realize at some point in the near future I'll have to take a step of at least contacting H about some things (probably next week), but I'm not going to take any BIG steps yet. I also want to talk to my pastor one more time, to make sure I have his backing.

<small>[ April 03, 2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Hi Gang..........


Wallace - Yes, time is on your side, You can never go wrong by being patient. Relationships are a process, build the foundation correctly on a rock, and it will stand the test of time. Build it on sand, soon it crumbles quickly.

Petvet - Yep, exw is at the starting point again, hopefully she'll do something great with her life. It's certainly a lifestyle of drama...


Avondale - You raised the question, am I ready to be like petvet and wallace and start dating?

Well, at this point I don't want to date because I haven't lived single yet, the guys here had a jump on me. You see I've been held in financial bondage, due to all the DV issues, and I will be loosed in about 2 months, yet, I will be debt free by the end of this year.

I've had a business project and many things on hold since 2002. The time of release is before me now. If I dated, it would only be a distraction for me. After being with someone for 21 years since I was 17 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I'm not in no hurry for a relationship, I have some things I want to accomplish. Besides, If I were in a relationship like our lover boys here, and If a woman told me she loved me, I wouldn't believe her, I would take it as a setup' Those words have little meaning right now coming from someone other than family....I'm sure I'll heal and get over it...So our guys here are braver than me...

Maybe oneday when I have something worth taking a woman out in, something she don't have to get out and push on the date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> then I might take somebody out for there B-day or something....nothing serious...Ok.I'm not poor, but my wealth days are before me, all women want to feel classy in a nice car on a date...When you're a teenager you're just happy to get out of the house, you don't care if they ride a bike <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ....

One of my downfalls in my past marriage was financial issues, next time around, if there's a next time around <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I want to be able to provide everything alone, but yet share it all 50/50 and perform my role and stay in my lane,prior I did too much and only caused a person to be weakened....A woman knows how to run her house and turn it into a castle for her king when she has the money with all things operating in there proper place and order.....

That's why I still tell men today, " If your wife buys you a shirt, wear it,(even if you think its ugly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) because she must have had some vision that you look good in it, and a woman wants everybody to see her taste and style whether on her or her mate." So guys, suffer through it but, remember, at least she has her eyes on you and it makes her feel proud and needed.

WGTT - Glad to hear from you. I'm happy to see your reality business take of, oh what a joy, its going to be.

Leah - That link avondale posted is some good stuff. Question - Have you ever planned a mini getaway vacation with your H? or done something romantic of late and just to shock him?...

Take Care

avondale </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Me - I'm ready to move on; however, I don't want to move on if it's not what God wants me to do. I realize at some point in the near future I'll have to take a step of at least contacting H about some things (probably next week), but I'm not going to take any BIG steps yet. I also want to talk to my pastor one more time, to make sure I have his backing.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale, if you believe in standing for your marriage no matter what the situation looks like right now, then no one not even a pastor should sway you. Seek God on this one. Rejoice ministries helped me a lot. The daily emails began to sink in. I found them soon after MB.

There were times I was ready to call it quits as you know, but something always pulled me back (God) Today I am thankful for that (regardless of the final outcome) Through rejoice I have a better understanding of the whole picture.

When I read what you had written this daily email from 4-2-04 struck me - something to think about. Apparently just as we see similarities in MB, they do at rejoice as well.
- - - - -
Questions? The Steinkamp's books and tapes in the Rejoice Bookstore
are loaded with biblical answers from scripture http://stopdivorce.org
- - - - -

YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE! -

"At that time I will gather you; at that time I will bring you home.
I will give you honor and praise among all the peoples of the earth
when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes," says the Lord."
Zephaniah 3:20

You would not believe the messages that come to Pompano Beach each
week. As many of you know, we receive more email that the two of us
can possible answer personally. In addition to that, the post office
box is often full of letters and the fax machine stays busy. Each
Monday evening at Rejoice Pompano we hear reports in person, as well
as telephone messages all week. You would not believe what we hear.
Each week we hear that:

* Another mate has left for the far country.
* That relationship with a third person has been discovered.
* Someone has filed for divorce.
* A prodigal attempts to legalize adultery by "marrying" another.
* Someone has taken a stand with God for restoration of a marriage.
* Someone is up.
* Someone is down.
* Someone has great financial needs.
* A prodigal mate is in the far country living like royalty.
* A prodigal's own children are being ignored.
* A stander with a broken auto needs a job.
* A stander's needs are met in a way that could only be the Lord.
* A child is born in a prodigal's non-covenant relationship.
* A stander gives up and decides to "go on with life,"
* God has shaken a stander and they are back on track with Him.
* A stander is blessed by a church they thought did not understand.
* A stander or a family member is attacked by illness.
* A stander has a close relative come to the Lord.
* There has been a death in someone's family.
* The tape we sent arrived on exactly the right day.
* Someone stops standing (again).
* The Lord has given someone a glimpse of hope.
* Someone is back on the stander's track (again).
* Things look hopeless to a stander.
* Someone tells us, "It would take a miracle for mine to come home."
* A stander is angry because someone else's marriage is healed.
* Someone receives a miracle and it came through their prodigal.
* A stander has repented for the side trips they have taken.
* A family member or church leader has challenged the right to stand.
* God gave a stander the words and scripture to defend their stand.
* Hopeless and weary best describe someone's spiritual battle.
* God has used two separate means to confirm what He is doing.
* A stander realizes how much they, not their prodigal, have changed.
* Unconditional love has become a way of life for someone.
* A hurting prodigal reaches out for help.
* A stander finally understands real forgiveness.
* The prodigal's "friend" wants the prefix "boy" or "girl" added.
* Big guns of the enemy just about blow away a stander.
* A repentant prodigal spouse has suddenly come home!
* The Lord has touched a returned prodigal.

Yes, you would not believe what we hear. The comments above are the
most common. In fact, many of these were voiced by people who now
have a restored marriage. Each time we hear one of these, we are
encouraged that another marriage is on that often painful progression
toward healing. If a hand full or so of these sound just like you,
rejoice, for your marriage is on the way!

There is one other comment we hear from time to time; "My returned
prodigal died. I am so thankful that things were right with the Lord
and with our family, because I did not give up when it seemed that I
should."

If the one you love were to die today where would they spend eternity?
Our Mighty God has not given up, so why should you? A returned mate
coming to Jesus Christ, is what we want to hear about most of all.

"I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in
heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous
persons who do not need to repent." Luke 15:7

God bless,
Bob and Charlyne Steinkamp
Rejoice Marriage Ministries
Post Office Box 10548
Pompano Beach, Florida 33061
http://rejoiceministries.org
http://stopdivorce.org
http://rejoicenet.net

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Easter story- http://rejoiceministries.org/rejoicenet/books/easter.asp
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D.

WGTT
Thanks for the reminder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've gone to Rejoice Ministries before on numerous occasions.

To clarify a little bit of what I posted, because I do see how "ready to move on" could mean different things to different people, especially in the D/D forum : I have been fearful of saying anything to my H that could be misconstrued by him (in his fog and denial) and lead toward prompting him toward divorce. For example, I have not asked him to repair (or pay to have done) certain normal household maintenance things like fixing the leaky roof. My concern in doing so would be that he'd want to separate himself more fully from our home. I didn't tell him all the details about my cancer surgery so that he wouldn't want to separate himself more fully from me because of the stigma associated with that. So when I mean "talk to him" I mean just that - nothing more. I have walked on eggshells while waiting for him to come out of his fog (and even before, when he was still at home) and as time goes on, it becomes more difficult because some things just HAVE to be discussed. Do I want to say "when will you file" or "I can't take this anymore"? No, I absolutely will not bring up anything that would promote divorce! In fact, when we last spoke (8 weeks ago) I reminded him that I wanted our marriage to be restored and that also I would NOT be the one to initiate divorce. Knowing me as he does, he acknowledged that, too. I have studiously avoided talking to him about almost everything, divorce-related AND otherwise. There are just some practical matters that just can't wait any longer - I may need to move, for instance.
But again, I really do appreciate you reminding me about Rejoice, and that list was a "get real" moment for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I bet Leah will appreciate it too, when she gets back.

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Hi all!

EC: You are right. The loverboys need to take their time before jumping the broom. One's ducks need to be in a row.

Avondale: I like your frame of mind.

Later.

Petvet -What are you doing online at 2:00 AM ? Never mind, we're glad anytime you post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I sure hope I didn't scare Leah away. I apologize to her and everybody else if I did.

Does everyone have Easter plans for this weekend? I still have an extra seat at my house for lunch. Actually, if you don't want to sit at the table I can accommodate even more. Y'all come visit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's beautiful in the south this time of year.

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

avondale I did the same thing - not say much to FWH. Slowly I began to give it to God, since FWH wasn't doing it, and little by little things began to get done around the house. When FWH would come home, he noticed what was going on and I think surprised that it had been done or bought and I never said a word to him.

Before FWH came home, we had the most honest conversation in years. Apparantly he had noticed changes in me for a LONG time but nver said a word. He began to call me on Friday evenings when I was out (at a 12 step meeting) but I just said I was in Destin (the beach area) which was true. The sailing part got to him too. He told me that he thought I was having an A and when I started sailing, he knew it was true. (WRONG - I wasn't and very glad that I did not) He wanted to come home a year and a half before he did. A year and a half!

My prayer warriors prayed that God would put strong Christians in his life. And HE did. I even met one of them last month when I was up there helping close down the business. What a blessing. It was like we were instant friends.

This is really pretty bizarre - last summer I got a call from OW1 saying that she heard that I thought they had gotten back together and it wasn't true. She had lost her husband probably 10 years ago & said her kids would do anything to have thier Dad back. I said my kids too and so would I. It was a hard conversation but a really good one. She told me that she had not been a friend but that she would be now. (I knew her - old HS friend of FWH) After that conversation she got completely out of the picture. I think she had been waiting for FWH to drop OW2 so she could be with him.

Each day I pray for my husband and all the prodigals. Just before FWH came home god had given me the scripture about the prodigal son. He also gave me one about restoration. God is good.

Recently I met a woman in alanon that has gone through what I have, it about the same place with her walk with Christ as I am. It was amazing, we were in tears listening to each other. I would relate an experience to her & she had been there too. And vice versa.

D.

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

Hello All,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to check in until now. My husband had another setback and has been sick at home until today. I try to not be on the computer when he is home. He likes lots of attention and he doesn't feel I'm being productive when I'm on the computer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
He finally was feeling well enough to try work for a few hours so I ran to the computer to see how you all were doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WALLACE and AVONDALE,

Neither of you ever need fear scaring me off. I always love reading here and learning anything I can.I truly appreciate your comments and suggestions. I value honest critism too. Sometimes you need an outside source to point out things you just can't see for yourself.

Wallace, I agree with you about trust needing to be earned. I want so much to believe him and trust him again. He understands how I feel about it and he realizes that he has damaged trust repeatedly. He feels he is currently doing all he can to rebuild trust. I just tell him time will tell.

Avondale, I read the link you gave on rules for rebuilding. It was very good. I wrote them all down. Yes, I have read parts of the book "Surviving An Affair". I thought it was excellent. I'm not sure exactly where we were with each other when I read it. It's been a long time. I'm thinking we were together so I was doing Plan A without knowing it.

I also liked your suggestion about consulting with the Harleys. I'm giving serious consideration to that. I'll let you know what happens if we talk.

Have you set up a meeting with your husband yet? I will pray that all goes well if you can talk. I know in the earlier times of my husband and I meeting, I would always pray my way thru every conversation. I would always ask God to guide each word so that things would be communicated correctly. Those conversations can be so critical towards the healing process.

WGTT

Thanks for sharing the Rejoice e-mail. It was encouraging. I hope things continue to go well for you and your husband.

PETVET

Yes, I agree with you and WALLACE about the path of deception that tends to happen with WS. It's very sad. In the beginning of our marriage, I had absolute trust and faith in my husband. I still can't believe it's come to the point it now is. I believe the only true hope for restoration would be a return to his faith. It would only be then that we could have a relationship with integrity and trust.

You both are wise to continue to be careful re: the timing of remarriage. I have seen several second marriages end because of conflicts with step-children, usually teenagers. That can be such a challenge. YET, I certainly appreciate the dilema of not wanting to date forever. I've thought about that in my situation if it should ever come to that. That would be difficult.

EC,

You asked about vacations and romantic stuff... With hubby being so sick we're doing good to just be in the same bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm hoping once he gets caught up at work that maybe we could have a weekend away. We're definitely overdue. It would be great if he were interested. That's been part of the problem though. He just hasn't had much interest in me that way. I'm hoping that things will turn around someday.

Do you all have Easter plans? We were going to visit my sister and family but I'm not sure now because of my husbands illness. Have a wonderful Easter as we celebrate a Risen Savior!!! He is our HOPE! God bless!