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WIFTTy - "since you don't like the car, lets go look at new ones." i like suburbans at the time, still do. after projecting her dilike of suburbans onto me, she is buying a look alike.<p>TR- Okay..so she bought a look-a-like..she chose one she liked..it was ultimately the car she would drive..I don't see where that discounts your opinion..or your choice..or that she took on the choice as her own..except in picking the make and model of the vehicle she liked better..<p>
WIFTTy-Yes, i countered their statement with a statement to the contrary with an experts opinion, that i happened to have met. then they shifted the conversation to criticizing me for "always" saying that you know these famous people. How does that change in topic keep the conversation going? does it not attack the messenger? why should you put someone down in tone for a fact?<p>TR- Okay, when you countered their statement did you say that "When I talked to this person" or did you say something like..well "according to So and So..this is whatever? the thing here is, it's not important that you met the person..it's what that person said that was relevant to the conversation.. do you understand the difference?<p>
WIFFTy- that i met the expert. in a [b] disrespectful tone, "Dad, how come you always say you know these people?" technicality, I have met them personally, and asked them diretly for a direct answer. no misinterpretation, no interpretation. then they brought up a point that i made years ago, that one of college underclass men that lived across the hall from me was part of Mel Fisher's underwater recovery team from the Atocia. so how does that follow in the conversation about the universe? sounds like looking to put down to me. why bring up something from the past again that is irrelevant to the conversation at hand?<p>TR- Okay again you met the person..that part really isn't relevent..it sounds like they were trying to point out to you at least one other instance that you had done the same thing..trying to make your point by saying "I know this person" which again your knowing the person isn't relevent..<p>WIFTTy - well, everyone here is telling me, and i tried, but must find a better counselor, that i should get it for myself and the kids. . . i have gone before and am not afraid to go again. so my suggestion was to her also, and she denied every needing it. <p>TR- I personally feel my stbx needs counseling too..but for "me" to tell him this he gets the same way.."There is NOTHING wrong w/ me!! I don't NEED counseling" There are things "I" see in him that "I" feel he needs professional help in dealing with them..but..until 'he' see's it as a problem..he will deny he needs it..so I quit telling "him" I still stay/feel it..but just not to him..<p>TR- Look at it this way..what if your ex was in counseling and came to you and said.."You have some serious problems and need to get some counseling" how do "you" think you would react??<p>WIFTTy - point being, he did nothing except relay to me what i already knew.<p>TR- Okay..<p>
WIFTTy - I just sent them to their rooms just now with not following the rules for a third time, and 9 yo d said she would only cooperate if i asked nicely. (which i did three times)<p>TR- Mine do the same thing..I have a 13, 9, and 6 yr old..they also say this to each other.."If you ask Nicely" so they do understand that to be "told" to do something and to be "asked" to do something sounds differently..they understand that to be "asked" shows respect, even if they don't understand what the defintion of respect it..
something you can do (I did this with my oldest daughter today)her sister asked her to "stop" poking her, and she wouldn't..so I made her get out the dictionary, look up the word "stop" and write out the definition 10 times..later this afternoon when I took them to their dad's she started doing something to her brother..and he asked her to stop..again she didn't..I asked her
what does "stop" mean..and she told me..I said..now, what did your brother ask you? she said
"he asked me to stop" I said okay..then what do YOU need to do? She said Stop..then she started about how I didn't make them write out the defination and how it wasn't fair..(whiney voice)
and I said.."Your absolutely right, I didn't make them do it this morning..I made you..this isn't about them, this is about you and your actions..when they do something and you ask them to stop..THEN I can work with teaching them the same lesson- and that is to respect other peoples Boundries..when they no..or they say stop..then you do not continue..just like you want them to listen to you when ask them to stop..or you say No
to something..<p>
WIFTTY-nope, top liberal arts boarding school in the NE.<p>TR- I don't know..I guess I have never understood why parents would send their kids to boarding school other than to turn the responsibility of raising of their children over to someone else..
While the parents do whatever they want and not have to deal w/ the day to day joys and trials of parenting..it seems pretty selfish to me..yes, I understand the education is supposed to be the top..but book education isn't whats most important in life..it's knowing that your parents are there for you when you need them..and making you feel loved..it's the daily hugs, the daily communication..that helps them grow emotionally..<p>Just a question..how do you get along with your parents? I notice you mention your wives parents a lot..but what of your own?? To me, if your parents sent you away to school it was as if they
abandoned you..sure they "provided" a roof over your head, food and clothing but..what about love?
what about emotional support when you needed it?
who was there to give you a hug at the end of a bad day at school? Who did you talk to about your day? <p>WIFTTy - yes, but what they complain about is very tine, insignificant stuff, such that they are learning to make mountains out of molehills. <p>TR- All kids do this as well..this is a part of growing up. (i know adults that do this also)<p>WIFTTy - they just started in on me questioning why i can say there are rules here in my house. . . so i used your answer, and they started to get it. But what i get upset with, is the same battle starting all over again each time to the same conclusion.<p>TR- This is called challenging your rules..all kids do this as well..and as long as you stay consistant they will learn to accept them..and respect them..<p>All parents get frustrated when the when their kids challenge them..over and over..but they need to know that you will be consistant..if you give in one time..they will know what your breaking point it..and they will carry it to that level every time..if it takes you three times to get to the point you send them to their rooms..they will push you till that third time..because they know this is dad's breaking point..if you started sending them the first time..they would learn okay when dad says STOP..He means it..if we don't stop now this is going to happen..they learn your boundries, and then pretty soon..the first time you say stop doing something..they will stop right away..and after awhile..it just takes your looking at them in a stern way..and they will get the message..<p>Look at school for example..your teacher says "if you disrupt my class, I will send you to the office with a referal" so someone in the class is GOING to disrupt the class to see if the teacher will really send them to the office..(they will challenge the rules) if the teacher follows through and sends the child to the office..they know they mean what they say..if they don't send them to the office, then the entire class will know the teacher doesn't mean what was said..and everyone will disrupt the class and the teacher will lose control of the class..<p>Children do the same thing with parents..and when parents follow through consistantly..the kids learn respect, and they learn boundries..<p>So just know that you are not alone in this with your kids..ALL PARENTS go through the same things
with their children..

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When..<p>WOW...all of this thought into cars and status symbols???? You should maybe get a nice HOBBY for yourself and stop worrying about status! Come on now, I thought this status game went out in the 80's!!!<p>How about a 78 Ford Pinto for you! You would be so cool in that car!<p>Have Fun!<p>Bryan [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

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you know, all this about status, yet i don't put any status on car, i have bought used cars and new cars, all VW rabbits and jettas. i don't wash them, except once every spring to get the salt off from winter, i drive them until they can't move any more, and i fix them myself so that i save the money on labor when i can. most cars i have either die from an accident or old age of 150,000 miles or more.<p>oh, and bryan, there is no marriage to save.<p>everyone, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> A disrespectful judgement occurs whenever someone tries to impose his or her system of values or beliefs on someone else. <hr></blockquote>
Love busters page 45<p>I do not appreciate being told i am responsible for another adult's ignorance anytime i ask an informational question, especially when the equipment in question is not mine, nor do i have any responsibility for it. if you don't like that response, tough.<p>also, i do not appreciate being criticized for liking something, especially when the reason given is wrong. That is a major disrespectful judgement. if you don't like that, tough.<p>As what happened Friday night, one hour before my pickup for my weekend, X called me to ask if she had to have the kids ready for me for my weekend when i picked them up. Why can't people take their agreements seriously and responsibly? If you don't like that, tough.<p>Of course i said yes, she had to have the kids ready for me to pick up. And the kids were ready, but in the end, did not have all their stuff ready, and we had to go back the next day to get retainers, books, and jackets.<p>Again, 9 yo daughter was playing one parent against the other, and i don't bend very easily on those issues. Today, 12 yo old was trying to get this and that, i said no, I won't be your servant, he said, I know, i am just being lazy. They get the message after they spend more than one day with me. do they act responsibly after being with me more than a couple of days, you bet. if you don't like my parenting, tough.<p>What pisses me off is that everytime I get the kids, they have to relearn personal responsibility, many times i pick the kids up, they are not ready, or are not home, or start a new project just as i show up, and then try to get mad at me for interupting them to take them to my house. One time, on Wednesday, X agreed that kids should not have friends over on days i pick them up. When I picked up on Friday, she had already forgotten, and the kids had friends over, and i had to wait for awhile.<p>You know, she will always piss me off with crap, blaming me for her stuff, we agreed in mediation that i would have the kids on February school vacation, and April school vacation because she works those vacations. Well now she wants to change it, she still works those weeks, but now wants to go back on our agreement. <p>you know, it get tiring and frustrating to make agreements with someone, and then they want to change it later. You know i get irritated when the CS parent who gets the kids 11 days out of 14, says to me that she doesn't get to see them at all during the week, and that she only gets to see them on weekends, so she wants more time with them.<p>Well, that's just more crap i have to put up with.
What pisses me off is the constant battle for my time with the kids.<p>What pisses me off is the constant battle i have to have with X when she accepts the children playing her off against me.<p>Basically, she pisses me off to have to interact with her, and no one will ever be able to change that, except her. I hate having to be on the constant look out for attempted manipulation. If you don't like it, tough. . . .<p>And my kids and i have a fine time together after we get through the ritual authority challenge. <p>so this is the end of my posting on this thread.
if you don't like it, tough. . .

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hmmm. Everyone who posts here on MB is the "sane" spouse...the one who is "right" and has values. The one not posting is evil incarnate. Not buying it.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheStudent:
<strong>hmmm. Everyone who posts here on MB is the "sane" spouse...the one who is "right" and has values. The one not posting is evil incarnate. Not buying it.</strong><hr></blockquote>My shrink said "problems are not so much with people as between people". I've never claimed any particular monopoly on sanity.<p>Our thinking can be illogical, or can logically proceed from the wrong premises. Or can simply be bereft of the creativity that solves our problem. That is what friends and wise counsellors are for.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheStudent:
<strong>hmmm. Everyone who posts here on MB is the "sane" spouse...the one who is "right" and has values. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Exactly!!! I've been thinking that for the longest time and I'm glad that someone finally had the gall to stand up and say it.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Calm down people I'm just adding a little bit of humor but I do believe that since most of us are BS's that it could be a topic worth discussing.

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While we,the BS,may be insane as well,perhaps we are a little less insane....
the question I must ask is this......
When the ow is only part of the scenario,but all previous values, morals, behaviour and sensibility which existed in one's spouse as the co-parent of ones children is not there any more, but has completely turned 180 degrees....so that the adult parent becomes the adolescent....only with the money and power to "prove" to the children that his way of life is the path to follow and all previous shared values and morals are for naught,should one question his sanity?

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