Here is one for ya! I always start having strange dreams before I come home from a hitch at work. After I woke up I had to really think about how real it was. Let me tell you about this one!<p>First off, I was in a airplane coming back home and everyone that I spoke to was divorced! All infidelity issues. I started looking around the plane and noticed people that I knew and was married and all of them were having sex with someone that I knew wasn't their spouse! <p>Same thing everywhere I when! I ask some of them why they were doing this and they all told me to get with the times and EVERYONE in doing it. <p>The last person I seen when I got home is my mother with this young guy that I didn't recognize. (my mother is in her 60's! LOL)! I ask her who he was and she told me that it was her boyfriend! I ask her where dad was and she told me that she had left him for her new boyfriend! I woke up pissed off, sweating and shaking! <p>I sit there on the side of my bed and thought deep and hard about the nightmare that I just had. <p>The thing that I have to ask is was it a nightmare or reality? I started thinking about all of you good people here at MB and all the good people at another site that deals with infidelity. Then I start thinking about all of the people that I know that has when through this in my own little part of the world.(Central Louisiana) After that I started thinking of all the people in the world that have went through this and all the people that will never know that it happened to them. <p>
MAN!!!!! You talk about reality! Holy Smokes! At some point or another I wouldn't be suprized if 99% of the worlds population hasn't been through the ravages of infidelity, known or unknown! <p>Then I started thinking about a movie that I seen years ago that really broke my heart because it brings infidelity into the limelight and praises it! (Bridges of Madison County) <p>Then I started thinking about all the soaps that have infidelity on it daily! <p>This dream has really disturbed me!<p>Any of you good folks have a comment about this?<p>
RN<p> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

RN,
I know what you mean. I watch almost no TV any more because all the shows just kind of laugh at infidelity. I am not as bad as before, but have filled my time other ways.

Funny, I was just talking to my mom this am about my high school age sister and the tv shows she watches. For the first time I watched Dawson's Creek last night - something every teenages and college age student sees - and two of the characters just had sex after their dates - not really planning it, but having it because they just couldn't help themselves, just like it was no big deal. <p>So I began thinking that if you grow up thinking that sex is something special confined to marriage - or at least confined to a committed relationship, then why should they think that it's any big deal to do it with someone else when you are married. The going trend is it's ok as long as it feels good to me, and I'm happy - more of the selfish attitude.<p>Which leads me to another thought - you also see on tv how there will be a committed couple, maybe even not married, but dating or engaged, and then one of the parties meets someone else that they are attracted to and breaks up the first relationship to be with this new person because there are new and exciting feelings with the new person. <p>It is inevitable that there will be many people with whom we are attracted. But if we left our relationships every time we met one of these people, then we'd almost always be with a new person and there would be no stability - it would be like we were animals. There has to be a realization that this is the case, and that as people we acknowldege committment to one person, so that we can have children, and have a family.
However, now a days people have 2, 3 or more marriages, all with kids, and the kids have a multitude of step-parents, and step-siblings and a series of losses in their lives everytime the old person gets left behind, all because adults in my opinion are not acting like adults - but as children, going whereever the wind or new relationship takes them - INSTEAD of working on the relationship that they have. Because if you really ascribe to MB, every marriage can be as wonderful as you want it to be(absent another form of addiction or abusive behavior).<p>I'm in LA too, so it must be something in the air to both be thinking about this topic. K

Hi RN,<p>You had a dream that was from the LORD above, this is the meaning of you dream, first I 'll list what you said then give you the meaning...<p>Quote:<p>First off, I was in a airplane coming back home and everyone that I spoke to was divorced! All infidelity issues. I started looking around the plane and noticed people that I knew and was married and all of them were having sex with someone that I knew wasn't their spouse! <p>Same thing everywhere I when! I ask some of them why they were doing this and they all told me to get with the times and EVERYONE in doing it. <p>The last person I seen when I got home is my mother with this young guy that I didn't recognize. (my mother is in her 60's! LOL)! I ask her who he was and she told me that it was her boyfriend! I ask her where dad was and she told me that she had left him for her new boyfriend! I woke up pissed off, sweating and shaking! <p>Interpetation:<p>What you saw in your dream was people high and lifted up in pride full of adultery, all evil works of the flesh [The World]<p>They said " Get with the Times" -Well The Lord said before his return this would be an Evil and Adulterous Generation. Like the days of NOAH.<p>Your Mother with a boyfriend (This is just a way the Lord is showing you his displeasure of marriage covenants broken, not really your Mother) - He that committeth Adultery with a Woman lacketh Understanding and destroyed his own soul.<p>
Instruction: Don't travel the way of this Adulterous generation, get understanding of true love and relationships or you will destroy your own soul [inner man] as they do. The Lord is saying get understanding about the way you are traveling in life and don't follow the way of the world. Also the Lord has shown you he knows the pain and jealousy of an invader that comes between a marriage, he that doeth it or entice's it has no understanding. Below are scriptures that pertain to your dream. Seek the Lord and his ways he's trying to speak to you.<p>Mark 8
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? 37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. <p>Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:<p>Prov 6
32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul. 33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away. 34 For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance

bump..... come on people! Nobody has anything to say about this?

Roughneck,<p>I know what you mean. I was talking to my mom the other day about my WH and his live-in OW. We were talking about trusting and I started to say that I was shocked his OW could trust him knowing that he was married(12 yrs) with 2 beautiful children, a loving wife who supported him, a nice house, 4 acres of land, 2 boats, 2 motorcycles, etc, etc.<p>I figure if he could walk away from that so easily, walking away from her "dirt poor living off her daddy self" shouldn't be too hard. <p>If I was her, I could never be sure he would remain faithful.<p>Oh, what I started to say was that I understand because when talking to my mom, I started to say something like " Why would anyone get involved with someone who was unfaithful and abandonded his/her spouse and children? Unfortunately I had to stop myself before the whole sentence came out because I momentarily forgot my Mom married a man who had affairs in his first marriage. My Mom was cheated on by my Dad and I always thought it was amazing that she remarried a cheater.<p>Then again, like you say, it seems everyone is a cheater, discovered or not, in one way or another,<p>It is sad, really sad....... I personally never cheated and never even considered it. No I'm not special or different, I just made a committment and wanted to stick to it.<p>Stick-to-itness is definately lacking in our society. Not confined to LA at all, SC is just the same.....<p>Have a good night,<p>PP

I have come to believe that the problem goes far beyond the matter of sexuality infidelity. I don't think many people really believe in anything any more, if it's not convenient to do so.<p>As a society, we are still attracted to ideals such as fidelity and unconditional love and honesty. Much of popular music is about these ideals. We still vow to uphold them in ceremonies such as weddings and baptisms and courtroom trials. But when the ideals appear to come into conflict with the individualistic pursuit of our own self-interest, what almost invariably happens?<p>The ideals become nice-but-unrealistic ideas instead of the principles by which we live our lives.<p>The church by and large treats divorce as tragedy rather than sin, and if by chance some embarrassment is incurred, well, there's always another church two streets over that won't ask any troubling questions about "private matters". Despite courtroom oaths "to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth", courtroom procedures are designed to obscure truth rather than reveal it, and if you're caught in a lie, well, that's only to be expected. It would be crazy to tell the truth if doing so would damage your self-interest.<p>Wouldn't it?<p>It came as a considerable shock to me to receive legal advice to the effect that if I were to get on the witness stand and reveal my conviction that a civil divorce would not release me from my marital vows (because marriage was a sacred covenant), I would be "crucified" and shown to be a dangerous "psycho".<p>Commitment and self-sacrifice are no longer considered virtues. They are now indications of poor mental health. When the going gets tough, you're nuts if you don't just go somewhere easier and more "fulfilling". Personal responsibility is gone, because the only person you're supposed to be responsible for any more is yourself.

<p>[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: newstartj ]</p>

What saddens me the most is how casual so many people seem to be about infidelity. Right after dday, several people told me that I should just "give it time" that it would all "blow over". Like it's a spat over what color you're painiting the house. <p>I told my H when I married him that infidelity would be the only reason I would ever leave him. I think that he really did test me. He knew how deep my love for him was, he knew how sacred I held our marriage vows. And he cheated in what is to me the most dispicable way imaginable. <p>I now know of more marriages/ltrs where at least one partner has strayed. I can count three couples I know of where I am sure neither has. Wish I could say I don't know too many people [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It makes me feel like I don't stand a chance of ever finding someone as twisted and rigid as me and newstartj seem to be. <p>Snow

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>how....casual so many people seem to be about infidelity. <hr></blockquote><p>Roughneck, there is the interpretation of your dream. SOOOO many people on that airplane were in adulterous relationships shows that many more people DO NOT take their M vows seriously enough than we could ever imagine.<p>The largest medium, the airwaves, which DOES to a large extent influence our societal mores & colors our value system, is pushing the idea lately that infidelity is funny, humorous and glamorous, so that the "sting" is gone from it. Does it work? OF COURSE NOT!! But it doesn't mean they don't try. Remember (well, not unless you're OLD, like I am!!) how they pushed and pushed the ideas of "single-parenthood" or women working outside the home....this is going back to the 60's & 70's....shows where it was FORGING NEW GROUND
to show a single, independent working woman. Well, nowadays, this is common place. It takes time to foist these ideas on the general public and have them become acceptable. Infidelity is now the new "Norm" they are shoving down our throats. We cannot sit by idly and NOT say anthing to stop it. If we do, there truly will be NO monogamous relationships left for our children (and grandchildren's) generation. Sad.<p>ANyway, roughneck, I also wanted to comment on the airplane aspect of your dream. I see that as a way to ESCAPE, a vehicle to RUN AWAY in....all those people were UP in it, "hidden" from view of their spouses and others who would know and disapprove.<p>Lastly, I would say that you are wondering if this is "reality" and "Where was I??" while thinking this is a nightmare.....I think you are more IN TUNED to seeing infidelity b/c of going through this on a personal level. I find that I "see" more couples, talk to more couples (or the BS) now than I EVER THOUGHT EXISTED b'c of being entrenched in my H's A. Your whole being is tuned in to this type of scenario. You SEE it everywhere, hear about it, etc. <p>I remember a couple of weeks ago, in church. There was a man sitting there....I had noticed him a few times before over the last few months.....well, NOW I'm "noticing" him. Know what I mean??? Starting to think about him, "Hmmm, he's always alone, except sometimes a teen-age girl with him, but NOT REALLY with him....." Hmmm, is he M?? Probably not, no ring. IS he D? How sad, Buuuut I could be "interested" in him. Hmmm, seems nice enough, BUT stays to himself.....hmmmm, wonder what his story is???? Then one day OUT OF THE BLUE, the little old lady behind me starts telling me his story!! He's "getting a D, he and W each share custody of the boy. One week each. Of course right then and there I start praying for them, to get back together. Also, ask God for forgiveness for even THINKING about someone else while I profess to want my M healed......
Guess what?!?! One week later, he's wearing his wedding ring.....THE FOLLOWING WEEK HE AND HIS WIFE ARE BACK IN CHURCH TOGETHER AND THEY ARE NOT GETTING DIVORCED!!!! Isn't that cool???<p>Well, too long, as usual, but I think I gave you my interpretation of your dream as well.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by newstartj:
<strong>_________________
It came as a considerable shock to me to receive legal advice to the effect that if I were to get on the witness stand and reveal my conviction that a civil divorce would not release me from my marital vows (because marriage was a sacred covenant), I would be "crucified" and shown to be a dangerous "psycho"
___________________<p>This is true! <p>It just happened to me 2 months ago.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, it's "nice" to get confirmation that my legal advice was legitimate, I guess. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I didn't ask to be a martyr. I don't want to be a martyr. I hope very much that I do not end up a martyr. But if it comes to a choice between being a martyr and throwing away my integrity and my faith, well, I'll be a martyr.<p>When I was warned that I would be "crucified" if I didn't change my position, I just said "It's happened to better men than me."

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lupolady:
<strong>The largest medium, the airwaves, which DOES to a large extent influence our societal mores & colors our value system, is pushing the idea lately that infidelity is funny, humorous and glamorous, so that the "sting" is gone from it.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>This is certainly true, but there are also plenty of movies (etc.) that show the "sting" and various types of fallout that result from infidelity.<p>What seems to be more consistent is the idea that infidelity "just happens". As if one isn't responsible for one's own choices and actions.

Roughneck,<p>the dream signifies your new increase in knowledge about reality, and that reality conflicts with your original view of life. . . .<p>sorry for your loss of innocence. . . .<p>however, to the rest of you, i'm not so sure where your beliefs in this country are. . . .
there is a separation of church and state in this country, which is one of its founding ideals, and the state was doing their job. . . .
that's the choice of freedom of religion, that the state does not make any judgements on religious values. . . .<p>although your beliefs are for the way you would like life to be, such is not the case for reality. . .<p>humans have weaknesses, and temptations have never more available in history. . . . therefore, as the temptations rise the numbers of people giving in will surely increase just by probabilities. . . . its a human situation . . .
some people are just more prone to it than others. . . some people use all types of excuses to justify a bit of selfishness. . . . for the most part, it is just selfishness . . . .<p>however, that being said, there is tons of new research in the past 30 years on mental disorders, and the distinctions have become better defined. Since about 1% of the population is mentally disordered, and the population is still growing, the numbers of crazy people is still growing exponentially. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>likewise, this board is one of the newest ways to learn about life that one would otherwise not see or hear about due to family privacy. . . . so everyone here should learn about the signs to look for about that 1% of the population and what not to do . . .

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>however, to the rest of you, i'm not so sure where your beliefs in this country are. . . .
there is a separation of church and state in this country, which is one of its founding ideals, and the state was doing their job. . . .
that's the choice of freedom of religion, that the state does not make any judgements on religious values. . . .</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Wiftty, I don't really understand what you are saying here. I'm not asking for the law or for the courts to adopt or enforce my beliefs about marriage as a sacred covenant. I'm just not happy about the idea that I might be considered a dangerous psycho solely because of my religious beliefs. I'm quite willing to take any scientifically-based psychological test or evaluation that is suggested, but absent such measures, prejudice against me is a judgement on religious values.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>although your beliefs are for the way you would like life to be, such is not the case for reality. . .</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I don't think I understand what you are saying here either. My beliefs and convictions provide a guide for my behavior, and they affect how I feel about myself in response to my behavior. I see this more as a statement about how or who I want to be than as a statement about how I want life or reality to be.<p>Why should the court - or my wife, for that matter - care what I think about the theological implications of my marriage, as long as I'm not bothering anyone?