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Joined: Jun 2001
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I have been here and posted under another name- but now my WH is following me around the boards, reads what I post (albeit RARER than RARE that I do) and then proceeds to freak out on me in anger..<p>My question is this...the M is over- in my heart- I am dead- (my name pretty well sums it up)..<p>Is it a BAD thing if I am just biding my time?<p>Some days I do feel like I love him- but so much has changed- and he had sex with SOO many other people..I am young- and do not ever ever EVER want to travel that same path twice.<p>The only action I can think to take is to divorce- but D-Day was a year ago- and it will be atleast another year before alot of our debt is paid off, etc...<p>If I file right now- my daughter cannot go to pre-school (it is expensive where we live and she is VERY smart and ready for school but misses the deadline for Kindergarten)<p>If I file right now- I will have NO MONEY left for ANYTHING extra for the 3 kids- I won't be able to get my debts paid off alone- I will barely be able to afford clothes and school supplies for them...<p>The kids also are majorly needing him too- we have moved 1200 miles away from family and friends- and they need him.<p>I also do in a way. He says he loves me, has not cheated since prior to D-Day- but many many basic things have NOT changed in him- and we still aren't effectively communicating.<p>We have never been to counseling because I refuse marriage counseling- in my eyes- my marriage is over and I feel dead and lifeless inside...<p>I have a long story- but won't share it-<p>Can anyone please tell me how long it took to "get your ducks in a row"?<p>What were some reasons you stayed? Finances? Kids? What was the end result?<p>I know that I might get blasted harshly- but all I can seem to muster right now- is that my marriage is only a business relationship- and I need to stay emotionally and physically detached or else I will be further destroyed..<p>Someone please help??<p>Thank you!
ECO

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Not gonna blast ya.<p>Know what? I think staying is a good idea. You are not financially or emotionally ready to go out on your own right now, and doing so would do the child a disservice.<p>You don't know what will happen in the future. If you stay now, even if you aren't actively pushing for the marriage, you might begin to notice some changes and get a second wind.<p>I had about 40 second winds.<p>The first time I considered leaving was 3 weeks into the marriage when we had our first episode of physical violence.<p>I ended up being married for 10 years, and I got out when I was ready. I had all my supports in place, was financially taken care of (by my parents), the bills were gone (bankruptcy), and I was ready.<p>The important thing is that you have to be ready. If there is any doubt in your mind for any reason I suggest that you not end the marriage.<p>I may have spent time in the marriage that was not 100% productive, but I also know that my son is now old enough to remember what it is like to live with dad, so that makes me feel as if I made the right choice, and I needed that time to finally come to the conclusion that the marriage was over.<p>You stay as long as you want, but don't shut out any miricles that may happen. <p>Elizabeth

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Thank you for your reply..<p>I too have been married 10 years..about 2 years into the marriage I felt like everything had changed- I plan A'd without even realizing I was-<p>Only to find out last year- that for 6 out of 9 years he had cheated on me with almost 10 other people.<p>This- our 10th year- he proclaims his love, and is trying to serve God.<p>I'm so tired- too tired! I have these huge walls around my heart and mind right now- he accuses me of wanting our marriage over so I can be with someone else?!? Those accusations are so absurd all I can do is sob and laugh at the same time.<p>I have NEVER cheated on him- nor would I ever- and move on to someone else?? I'm so embittered by this whole ordeal- I doubt that anyone else- no matter how great of a guy he may be- will ever have a chance again to destroy me further..<p>I really am soo tired. He checked out of our marriage for my whole 20's- I'm turning 31 next month- and don't feel financially or emotionally able to do anything!<p>I've turned into a rotten tired mother- I don't go to church any more- I need counseling badly-<p>It just seems like so many people either know right away that they are reconciling and work towards that end- or divorcing and work towards that end..<p>Living in limbo sucks- but because of my emotional state- and our financial state (we too- started a bankruptcy process- but dismissed it and are now still paying off debtors)....I feel as though I have no choice but to co-exist for a while longer.<p>Justthewife- how did you protect yourself? How did you from further hurt? Emotionally- and physically too?? (he never used a condom- I am now forever going to need to be tested for STD's and AIDS- and it was not even a thought for him to jeopardize my life before- so what if it happens again?)<p>We still have sex- it is only sex for me- and sometimes I cringe when he touches me- and check out and think of other things while we are having intercourse- which really sucks because I have always REALLY enjoyed sex!!<p>I am going thru the motions- and I am afraid that if he finds out- he will leave me high and dry financially- and with the task of raising three kids alone again...Criminy- I was a "single parent" for the past 10 years and I'm TIRED!!<p>I know this is whining now [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] LOL-<p>I hope others also respond- because I have been feeling alone in this "biding my time- it's only business" endeavour- <p>I feel so abnormal!<p>Limbo is a horrible place to be! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
ECO

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In some ways I agree w/ JTW and in some I don't. <p>I gave up after about a year of trying. I filed. I had concerns about finacials, debt load, mortgage payments, child support, etc. <p>I was concerned about my daughter.. <p>As far as I'm concerned it was the best thing that I have ever done.. I let the lawyer handle it. The X and I talked about what we wanted on the papers.. I was always, always,always prepared to deal w/ her if it got nasty.(It didn't) <p>After all is said and done. My daughter is doing most excellent in school, I refinanced my house, the X is getting child support, etc. Things are working themselves out.. <p>I would say you should do whats right for you. Take the children into account, take the finances into account, however put the most priority on you. What do you need.. Remember, YOU have to be there for your children. YOU have to be strong. Personally I would never wait for the bills to be payed off. <p>4 years (or so)ago a friend of mine said she wanted to get married to this guy but wanted her bills to be payed off first.. They never were and they slit up.. <p>It just seems to me the finacial issue always seem to work themselves out in the end. I think your mental health is more important to you and your children, then to stay and be misserable for the forseable future.<p>My .02$<p>Tex.

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I've felt the same way except I used an affair to escape and get my needs met.<p>I really related to The Walk-away Wife Syndrome -- you can find more about this on www.divorcebusting.com.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The Walkaway Wife Syndrome
Although divorce offers the illusion of happiness to people of all ages, races, and personality types, there is one group that is particularly susceptible to the sound of the divorce siren. It&#8217;s women. Approximately two thirds of the divorces in our country are filed for by women. What&#8217;s going on here? Why are so many women throwing in the towel?
In the early years of marriage, women are usually the primary caretakers of the relationship. They&#8217;re the ones who are doing a daily temperature check; &#8220;Have we had enough closeness today,?&#8221; &#8220;Are we spending enough time together,?&#8221; &#8220;Do we feel connected emotionally?&#8221; If the answer to these questions is,&#8221;Yes,&#8221; life goes on. If not, women pursue for more closeness. They tell their husbands, &#8220;You don&#8217;t value our relationship anymore,&#8221; &#8220;We never do anything together,&#8221; &#8220;Why do you always put work ahead of me?&#8221; Often, instead of recognizing their wives need for more closeness, men simply feel nagged and withdraw, emotionally and sometimes physically.
Because of this unresponsiveness, even hostility, women become frustrated. They soon try another approach- complaining about their partners&#8217; lack of involvement about everything else in their lives. &#8220;I feel like a single parent,&#8221; &#8220;You are such a couch potato,&#8221; &#8220;Why don&#8217;t you ever lift a finger around the house? I do everything myself.&#8221; Although they are still only trying to get their spouses&#8217; attention, men recoil big time. (I&#8217;ve never met a man who comes closer to his wife as a result of being &#8220;nagged,&#8221; no matter what his wife&#8217;s intentions!) After months or years of this negative interaction, women finally give up. They tell themselves, &#8220;I&#8217;ve tried everything. Divorce has got to be better than this. I&#8217;ll find somebody who cares about me. Even if I don&#8217;t, I&#8217;m so alone in this marriage, I can&#8217;t take it anymore. I know I&#8217;ll be happier without him.&#8221; And, with that, they plan their escape.
Now, the interesting thing about this escape plan is that leaving usually hinges on a particular event which may take years to materialize. For example, &#8220;I&#8217;ll leave my husband when the kids leave home,&#8221; or &#8220;I&#8217;ll get a divorce when I go back to school and learn new skills so I can support myself,&#8221; or &#8220;I&#8217;m going to meet another man and as soon as I do, I will be out of here.&#8221; And now comes the tricky part.
In the months, years that follow her decision, the wife is no longer trying to fix the marriage. She stops complaining. To her, this surrender to the inevitable is definitely a bad thing. To him, well, you don&#8217;t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what the husband thinks. He&#8217;s thrilled! She&#8217;s off his back. She must be happy again, or so he thinks and he proceeds with business as usual. Business as usual, that is, until &#8220;D Day&#8221;. That&#8217;s the day she turns to him and says, &#8220;I want a divorce,&#8221; to which her absolutely devastated husband replies, &#8220; I had no idea you were unhappy! Why didn&#8217;t you tell me?&#8221; With that response, the marital coffin is nailed shut.
The tragedy of this situation is that this is the point at which most men finally understand the depth of their wives&#8217; unhappiness and want to make genuine changes in themselves. They are willing to do back flips to keep their marriages/families together. They are finally ready to do the kind of soul-searching that would make having a great marriage possible. But by that point, most women have built an impenetrable wall around them, one that is impervious to men&#8217;s efforts to change. And it&#8217;s divorce, full speed ahead.
I&#8217;m convinced if more women knew the truth about divorce, they might not be so quick to dismiss their husband&#8217;s offers to become better people and partners. They might actually stick around long enough to find out if their husbands really mean what they say about changing. <hr></blockquote>

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Thank you - good man in texas...I know what you mean about putting it off and putting it off...<p>Our finances will come together by this coming fall- I have finally put together a real plan of action to pay off the debts and to save as much as possible so that I'm not completely desolate.<p>It HAS been one thing after another (car wrecks, moves, job changes, residency laws, finances..) that seem to be making divorce impossible...<p>I feel like I've waited for a year- I can probably wait a while longer...In the mean time- hopefully I can get myself together emotionally so that I'm back to my capable self again...<p>It has taken so much out of me to give and give for so long- only to find out he was out cheating on me the whole time- my best efforts weren't good enough..<p>That brings me to the article that you posted Lexxy- thank you for that.<p>You are right- that is how it has been all these years (less the nagging- I didn't nag hardly at all- maybe once a month! ha)- frankly- I'm done! <p>I know that divorce is not "better"- I know that it can still be a long lonely road- but when I weigh the lessor of two evils- "go it alone and be a single poor parent" or "give of myself completely only to be destroyed and cheated on"- I think I have no choice but to choose divorce.<p>He may be changed now-you write-<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The tragedy of this situation is that this is the point at which most men finally understand the depth of their wives’ unhappiness and want to make genuine changes in themselves. They are willing to do back flips to keep their marriages/families together. They are finally ready to do the kind of soul-searching that would make having a great marriage possible. But by that point, most women have built an impenetrable wall around them, one that is impervious to men’s efforts to change. And it’s divorce, full speed ahead.
<hr></blockquote><p>and by all appearances- he finally DID choose this- our tenth year- to "get with the program" and be the husband that he originally commited to being...<p>But in the mean time- he has left me lying broken and desolate on the side of the road for dead. I have nothing left to give- nothing left in my heart for him- and I think it is a sad sorry game that people/men play that drive their wives to the point of utter pain and heartbreak before "waking up"..<p>If that is how people operate- and the game that men play- no thanks...Divorce IS a better option then for me.<p>And I will be damned if I let my two sons grow up thinking that cheating- and treating women as I have been treated- are normal and acceptable..and I want to do everything in my power to show my daughter that she doesn't have to settle for the kind of relationship that you outlined in the article you have presented.<p>Nothing personal to you- I appreciate you responding to me! I just don't see how marriages are ever truly reconciled after affairs-<p>These things don't ever go away [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you all again- for your response.
ECO

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Man, do I see my self here. I too live in limbo. For me it seems like I live with Dr. jeckyl and MS. Hyde. She'll be a total pain in the [censored] to be with, complain and ***** about everything in sight, no matter what is done for her. I'll be battered emotionally from dealing with it, I'll be ready to walk out the door. Then, like a switch is thrown, she'll be 180 degrees, Dr. Jeckyl, wanting my attention, sex etc. I'll be so pised from it all, I won't want to be near her, but then as the nice part continues, I start to blame my self, for many reasons. "she's not that bad, just had a bad day, we all do" I am just compareing her to others, and they are probly the same in reality" etc etc. About the time I really figure it must be me, think of starting to put something back into it, ms hyde comes back, and it all starts over.<p> Why do I stay? I guess I feel an obligation, to my kids, to her. She chose not to work to be with the kids, and I supported that. She also has MS. Though she takes medication to control it, and has no real problems, I've seen her use it as an excuse. I have a 4 year old daughter, I feel a need to be with her, to protect her, to provide for her. I have a teenage son, I think he'd have serious problems from it, I guess fear of the what if's sums it up. What if my son ends up on the wrong side of the fence, what if my wife's new guy abuses my daughter, what if my wife doesn't work enough to provide for the kids. I know these are all what if's that mmay not happen, but are what if's I couldn't live with if they do. I know I'd help provide for my kids, but it's couldn't be the same as if we were all together (assuming she continues to not work). I know if that happened I could try for custody, but I really don't want to take my kids from her either. Someone said, don't leave till you are ready, guess that's why I stay, I'm not ready to go, or maybe more importantly, not convinced it isn't my fault, and not ready to live with the consequences of leaving.

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tengu (and everyone else [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )
how do you live in this limbo without cracking? I think "ok- so I'm choosing to live for atleast ONE MORE YEAR" like this- how do you go about your daily business-<p>the sex- the family things- the sleeping arrangements- the church thing..<p>I HATE this- I feel so dishonest- and I am not a dishonest person!<p>So much of him HAS changed- but it is like you said- HE is the one that cheated- yet I have to go "underground" to even post at places like this- <p>HE is the one that has thrown me in the garbage like a piece of trash- yet sulks when I can't regularly "love him"<p>HE is the one that turned me into a common whore (my word- he used condoms with ME- his wife- and not even with all of his girlfriends)- yet he gets angry and "hurt" when he can sense that I only view what we do now as sex and not making love.<p>HE has "worked at it" for one year- yet only went to counseling for about 6 weeks..I "worked on it" and did the whole meeting his needs in every possible way for a LONG time...<p>He told me a while back- that he admits to not voicing his needs to me- his expectations- and his past relationship with his parents sheds a TON of light on his choices over ten years...<p>He still villianizes me- "you are just so perfect- nothing I can do pleases you- I am just inadequate" blah blah...<p>Those self esteem issues DO NOT COME FROM ME- they are his...<p>So when there are changes- yet many many inherent same red flags- all I can do is put that wall up around me and protect protect protect...<p>He says he isn't tempted to cheat right now- but to me- it is only a matter of time before his unhappiness and low self esteem- culminate in that again..<p>HOW DO YOU LIVE IN LIMBO?? What keeps you going? HOW DO YOU HIDE IT FROM YOUR SPOUSE WITHOUT LYING and feeling guilty everyday for it?<p>I wish he would have turned on his heel and walked away when I "gave him his freedom" a year ago..<p>No matter what now- it seems as though I WILL be the bad guy (kids think so too!)<p>ECO

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"how do you live in this limbo without cracking? I think "ok- so I'm choosing to live for at least ONE MORE YEAR" like this- how do you go about your daily business-"<p>It's not easy, some days are good, some really bad. I guess I pull away, stay at work when I really don't have to, take work trips when I really don't have to just to have a fleeting glimpse of "normal" life, what ever that is.<p>""sex-""<p>Wait till she wants it, otherwise I'm accuse of only wanting sex, it's easier to be frustrated and wait. I can't say I wouldn't have an affair if the right situation came along. But the reality is that time is a major necessity for that, and I don't have enough free time, and don't work around many women. <p>
"the family things- the sleeping arrangements"<p>it sucks, I have this person I still find attractive etc, gotta sleep with her, but am a sex fiend if I touch her. Like sleeping with your sister<p>
the church thing..<p>Not an issue, neither uf us are into church<p>I HATE this- I feel so dishonest- and I am not a dishonest person!<p>Yes, I guess it be dishonest, or an *******, which is the lesser of the 2. If I came out and told her how I feel? It'd be hell for all, kids included.<p>
So much of him HAS changed- but it is like you said- HE is the one that cheated- yet I have to go "underground" to even post at places like this-
See I'm on the other side of the coin here, she's changed, she's not the person I married, and not who I'd marry today. As far as I know she's not cheated.<p>HE is the one that has thrown me in the garbage like a piece of trash- yet sulks when I can't regularly "love him"<p> yes I hear you here. Treat you bad, say I love you, then acuse you of not loving them back, so of course you feel guilty<p>HE is the one that turned me into a common whore (my word- he used condoms with ME- his wife- and not even with all of his girlfriends)- yet he gets angry and "hurt" when he can sense that I only view what we do now as sex and not making love.<p> I can see some of this, sex is what hapens when she wants it, or if it'll keep me from doing something I want to do<p>
HE has "worked at it" for one year- yet only went to counseling for about 6 weeks..I "worked on it" and did the whole meeting his needs in every possible way for a LONG time...<p>As have I, romantic dinners, romantic weekend trips, totally support her so she doesn't have to work. Basicly anything else she doesn't feel like doing.<p>
He still villianizes me- "you are just so perfect- nothing I can do pleases you- I am just inadequate" blah blah...<p>get this from time to time, or the "why would you want me" I think it's all a guilt thing<p>
Those self esteem issues DO NOT COME FROM ME- they are his...<p>as are hers, she has a very low self esteam<p>So when there are changes- yet many many inherent same red flags- all I can do is put that wall up around me and protect protect protect...<p>same here<p>
HOW DO YOU LIVE IN LIMBO?? What keeps you going? HOW DO YOU HIDE IT FROM YOUR SPOUSE WITHOUT LYING and feeling guilty everyday for it?<p>I just live from 1 day to the next, get as much time to myself, time with friends, my kids. Hide it? Probably not very well. Feel guilty, of course, all the time.<p>
I wish he would have turned on his heel and walked away when I "gave him his freedom" a year ago..<p>I too wish I left many close times in the past. Maybe that's a message.<p>
No matter what now- it seems as though I WILL be the bad guy (kids think so too!)<p>same here.

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Dear Emotionally Checked Out,<p> I had to reply to you. I lived like you are living for three years (married 11 years, together 6 years prior). My husband was always out at night (doing what? I don't know....didn't really care). We had fought so much about his life style prior to that I just didn't have the fight in me anymore. Loved the guy for many, many years. But, he just killed my love with his verbal abuse, drinking, controlling behavior, and out and out meanness. He refused counseling and I got tired of going by myself. We have a little girl and I was/am very involved in her activities at school (field trips, helped in the classroom, joined a prayer group called Moms In Touch, ect...). I thought my lot in life was to be a Mom (which I love being) and live in a loveless marriage. I truly never thought I would be divorced. The idea always scared me. I worked part time, went regularly to church and I would run out to my car at lunch to listen to Dr. Laura. I'd agree with everything she said and think "oh those bad people how could they do this, that, or the other thing.&#8221; Well, one day at work this guy I had been working with for about a year, started to seem like the perfect person. It never dawned on me, prior to this, that he had been pursuing me (he'd call me at home with unimportant work questions, compliment me a lot, hang around me quite a bit). Well, he was having problems too in his marriage and one thing led to another and we had an affair (EA and PA). We were like 2 emotionally starved people that were at the same place in time. Basically this was the catalyst for my divorce. The affair hurt a lot of people. YES, what I did was very wrong!! But why I&#8217;m writing to you is, you may find yourself in the same situation if you stay in a marriage that died a long time ago. I never thought I&#8217;d have an affair in a million years. If you met the fellow I had the affair with you&#8217;d probably think the same thing about him. I should of faced my marriage and dealt with it along time ago. Maybe if I did, I very well would have gotten a divorce anyway, but I wouldn&#8217;t have to wake up everyday with the guilt of what I did. Sorry for my rambling, every situation is different, but I&#8217;m sharing my experiences/shame with you because sometimes we can learn from another person&#8217;s history.

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dmith...
Thank you so much for your reply and courage to come here and post...<p>I struggle so much- because for the past ten years- I really HAVE had more reasons to cheat than my STBX..<p>He was verbally and emotionally abusive to me DAILY- I can remember many many times that he would reject me in EVERY way. He rejected my sex- he rejected my person entirely...(you have NO IDEA how many New Years Eve's came and went with no kiss to welcome in the future..) I can remember SO WELL the look of hatred and distaste- that even now as I write about it I'm sitting here crying.<p>That is what has been so horrifying to me thru all of this- my marriage was dead in me so long ago- and I spent so many years trying to love him- only to find out that it was HE who cheated on me for the whole time [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm so confused now too- He decided on D-Day (it took 2- he admitted to one and lied for another 6 weeks about all the others)- that he loved me- that he wanted to serve God- and that he wanted me....??????<p>Now- I can't even divorce properly! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] My kids see him loving me now- and think I should be fine- my family has ALL been thru this and reconciled- so it is like I'm the black sheep heading for divorce...<p>I am afraid- that if I stay in limbo like this that I will end up allowing myself to cheat on him- partly because of retaliation and revenge- and partly because I have been so love starved for so long....<p>These past few days have been a real struggle for me. I am moving into a new house- and asked him to join me- mostly because of finances...<p>But in my heart- every night I lay awake-sleepless- and feel like nothing but a cheap piece of trash with no future...<p>Thank you for sharing with me- I know that the answer for me is to not cheat on him in return, fortunately- I work out of my home- and am new to the area (live 1200 miles from family and friends)- so my exposure to other men is more than limited...<p>I am just so lonely right now- I feel so lost- and completely destroyed...<p>How can someone change? How can he really love me now? <p>I never thought I'd end up in this place..<p>ECO

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Justthewife- how did you protect yourself? How did you from further hurt? Emotionally- and physically too?? (he never used a condom- I am now forever going to need to be tested for STD's and AIDS- and it was not even a thought for him to jeopardize my life before- so what if it happens again?) <hr></blockquote><p>For half of our marriage he was doing crack whores, and I didn't know it. He even did it while I was pregnant and nursing. I caught something icky from him, thank goodness not HIV. I have been tested, and because I am an idiot I slept with him on Christmas so I am looking forward to another round of tests in June.<p>If he cheats again, he will jepordize your life. I would suggest not having sex with him if you are concerned even a tiny bit about his health status. You don't want to die. Your kids need you.<p>I stayed so many times for so many reasons. The bills as a reason was just an excuse. I know what it is like. It is completely terrifying to wonder what it will be like as a poor single mother and losing the person you have lived your life for. <p>I think this is probably something people can only truly understand if they have been in the situation. People can guess and empathize, but when it comes down to it there is nothing like experience to show you what a situation is like.<p>I know that you seem to say that you have lost all interest in fixing the marriage, but even when I felt like that I still loved [censored]. <p>One of our many marriage counselors told us that if we could just pretend to like each other for a few weeks it would at least make life easier. Do you think you could try going thru the motions just a little while longer to see if maybe you get a second wind?<p>It is so hard to be in this situation, and no matter what advice you get or what counselor you see the whole thing keeps landing right back in your lap. What can you do? What are you willing to do? Only you can make those decisions, and I know that even when I talked to friends and family it was really hard to give them an answer because I didn't know myself from day to day.<p>I don't envy you.<p>Elizabeth

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Posts: 2,260
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J
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,260
Afterthought - I never did figure out how to protect myself from further hurt. I still hurt now. I looked at some posts I made almost two years ago yesterday, and I still have the same main issues and feelings.<p>Elizabeth


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