Boy, talk about a conflict-avoiding stbx. Mine wins the prize.

When he left us, he was supposed to be the one to tell his parents, but he didn't. One of the kids let is slip three weeks after he left.

Now he will be bringing OW over at Christmas to meet the kids and for everyone to get 'used' to his new life (BARF!!!!!!!!!!!!)

When he dropped this news on me I said, fine, but it was his job to tell the kids. He agreed. That was, um, a few months ago now.

Well tonight he calls up and when he has finished my youngest, a 4 yr old, says in a very annoyed tone "Daddy is hanging out with is girlfriend!!!" I asked her to repeat that and she did, and told me that is what her dad said.

I could NOT believe the GALL of this...telling his youngest so she can break the news to the others <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well, guys, LB, or no LB, that and a few other issues needed to be addressed, so I wrote him the following email.

I understand you were telling (4 yr old) you were "hanging out with your girlfriend" so she would drop the news to the others. I have never heard of such a cowardly act. That also conveniently leaves me with the aftermath, which by the way it getting a bit annoying, to say the least.

For your information, neither (9yr old) nor (6 yr old) believe it. (9) said you would have told him if that were true, and (6) said "My daddy would never do that again." I did not tell them otherwise...as I said long ago, that is your job.

As for planning for the kids to come over there before Xmas, I have asked you before not to bring things up with them like that. If you had wanted more time with them, you could have come here now, or saved your leave for extra time at Christmas.(Note: he is off for two weeks holiday with OW starting tomorrow.)

As for (6) not wanting to come to the phone. I have advise from the school counselling officer that if she really does not want to talk, we should abide by that, for the simple reason that she gets so obviously upset by it. Making her do it gets her attention for negative behaviour, as well. I asked her tonight why she didn't want to talk to you. She yelled "Because he ruined my life!" You may have heard that in the background. I suggest we leave her be for a bit, and it won't take her long to see reason.

Don't bother to reply.

So, as the title says, he is a PIECE OF WORK!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Jacky I don't even know what to say about this. Its totally unreal that anyone could act this way but there it is. This is unfair on the kids and on you.

I agree with you Nina.I have always been honest with my girls and tell the truth.GF does the same. We hide nothing from the kids unless it is nessary. We plan to get married but we are keeping it under our hats at the moment as too many people have too much to say. There are seven of us in this relationship (5 kids) and we both try to spend as much time with everyboby as much as possible. But twice a month it is just me and her and we go out to dinner and/or movies.
The reason he probally doesn't tell anyone is that he is ashamed of what's happen and is afraid of what people might think or say about or to him. He's not a man but a mouse so pass the cheese please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

231

Hm, I pushed his buttons. Well smack my bum and call me shorty! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I got a reply already, below with my answers to his comments included (his is in bold)as it was sent back to him. Note the LB at the end, but I just don't care anymore. The numbers 4, 6 and 9 are the ages of my kids.

You have got totally the wrong idea from 4 as to what we were talking about and you have totally misinterpreted and misinformed the kids. I don't know how you got that idea and you'd better do some damage control (done by your own hand!!!) I won't write a lot more about it, but if you had the guts to talk to me then you wouldn't have to rely on misinformation from a little kid like 4. 4 and I were talking about her friends and some kids birthday party, the trampoline and other little stuff....Jeezus you should have your ducks in a row before you open your mouth to the kids like that!

I did not open my mouth, therefore I did not misinform the kids. She said it totally unsolicited and just out of the blue. And damage control by my own hand....I did NOT say anything either confirming or denying what she said. I said NOTHING. 9 and 6 responded to 4, not me, I was passing on the info to YOU. Given that if you didn't tell her any such thing, then why did she say it? I do NOT talk about you and (OW)...in fact whenever they bring you up I continue to be supportive of your love for them and hard as you may find it to believe, I try to remain unjudgemental of your choices. Doesn't sound like the Jacky you know, but I did tell you a long time ago I had changes to make and I made them.

As for the phone calls, it does me no emotional good to talk to you, I have tried to explain that to you many times. It is not a matter of no guts, it is a matter of self-preservation. I cope much better through email, and since I need to be coping, I choose this method of communication.

9 is right....I will tell him. 6 is more of a problem and I will take my lead from you and the counsellor, but don't make it any harder by coming up with (BS) and then writing me a dirty letter.

I didn't 'come up' with this...see above. Also, I know you miss the kids immensely. 6 is acting out like this because she misses you. That is one reason I was advised to leave her alone, soon she will miss you enough to come to the phone willingly. She still struggles with that fair day(a day WS took them out for a whole day with OW, ten weeks after he left home), like it or not. YES, these are children, and it would be nice to think that they can 'get over it', but that is not the reality. When she is yelling and screaming about this, I do not say anything, I just let her pour her heart out. Yeah, I know, you don't believe it. But I do honour your position as their father and I work HARD not to let my personal feelings come into what I say to them. I WAS a child of separation, remember? And I heard every nasty thing I could have heard from Mum about Dad over the years. I know what it did to me, and I will not allow that to happen to our children.

9 wanted to go with me to Egypt and I said I'll take him one day. He said why don't I come over and see him now, as I am taking two weeks off....the conversation was quite innocent; ] (and gee I am wondering what his answer was to that!)

His words to me were that you and him came up with a plan for the kids to go over there before Christmas - once again unsolicited by me. I do not give them the third degree about your phone conversations with them; I leave the responsibility of their conversations with you to them and you, unless they tell me stuff like they did tonight. I do sometimes prompt them to TELL you of things they have been doing, like the footy today and his being accepted for the Art program for gifted children.

he once again mentioned that you said that I would not let him come home...what (BS), at least my ideals for the kids don't involve filling their heads with crap.

I did say this once, the very first time it came up, but my exact words were I AM AFRAID about it, and really, you can't blame me for that. I have never mentioned it since, and told him I should not have said it and that of course he would let you home again, and everything else to appease his mind. He accepted this, and has never mentioned it to me since.

As for your ideals, the 'crap' that was put into their heads by your choices more than exceeds anything I have ever done to them. Do NOT play the martyr with me. It doesn't fit.

Well, comments, before a full scale email war erupts here?

Anddddddddddd for the grand finale:

His reply to that:

Our points of view have been aired, and I respect how difficult it is with the kids under these circumstances. Lets put it aside for the benefit of future conversations.

Respectfully yours,

stbx

Now, can I ask, if anyone else is falling off their chair in hysterical laughter at this????

One word, no, better make it two:

DEEP FOG!!!!!

Sheesh!

Hi Jacky!

do not let up on the pressure of being direct and tough with him . . .

work him over to accept his life style choices and its after math. . .

as I tried to convey to HH over the EN board, the only time i got respect from the manipulative one is to be extremely tough with them, and don't put up with the BS from them. . . . once i started doing that, stuff really started happening. . . i got respect, but X was not happy, in fact, the manipulation started up until she realized that i was not longer manipulative and then she quit. . .

she just ran away and told me one reason was that i was too independent (read: i can not control you any more!)

hang tough, the crap that comes out of their fingers is bizarre, but at some point, it will work

wiffty

Hi Wiftty,

Nice to see you again!

I am not surprised by his last response to my message, because what I had said was the truth and he knew it. And when he knows he is wrong, he just ignores it, or plays it down, or, in the old days, would attack ME, not the issue. You can see snippets of that in his email to me.

That he is still trying to pin this on me is just soooooo typical of him. But I will just keep being firm and not over-analyse this. Notice how he never addressed a single thing about my replies. Typical.

Well, I think he will have to live with what he did do to the kids when he comes back. I did have a LOT more LB's in there, but I deleted them before I sent it to him, because they were cutting remarks and did not serve the purpose of the letter. However I could not leave the last comment off, and I am glad I didn't.

I did reply to him, saying that it was a good idea to put this behind us because the kids should be our primary consideration, first and foremost, and any disagreements we have should not get in their way...well something like that.

Ugh..was I really LIVING with that man all those years? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh, now THIS is funny, although probably disrespectful of me, and so on, but hey, the door was open, so...........during the kids conversation with stbx earlier, they were talking about planets and stbx came up with a dumb name for one. 9 calls out to me if there is a planet called "Snogberry" or something. I replied, "Yeah, that's the one dad lives on now!"

9 yr old just about fell off his chair laughing, and he said stbx was laughing too....well stbx doesn't know about the mother ship or he just may have been insulted! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Nina

I can just laugh at your stbx I think it is the weather this side that is scrambling his brains.

You speak about conflict-avoider. My stbx informed me over the phone that there was something wrong with our marriage after denying it to me, my mom, his dad and the priest for 4 wks "he loved me and the children too much to harm us." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Then after 4wks he asked me for a DV over the phone. My bottom fell out. If there is nothing wrong with the marriage why ask for a DV. "He could not explain." Told me I deserved a person better than him" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Then after two weeks the OW phoned to inform me about the A. On confrontation he asked me to forgive him and if he could come home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

A month after that OW sends an SMS to tell me he is only back for the children's sake <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Which he denies on the bible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He then enters a clinic to be treated for depression. Hear stories from friends that OW is bragging that her "man" was coming back to her. I phone her she confirms this.

He tells me over the phone he does not love me anymore, he loves OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

From the clinic he moves to an apmnt. Refuses to speak to me does not phone. Now OW is his spokes person. She phones and says " I must not contact them as they love each other and I am just a jealous wife and to get on with my life.

Since then minimal contact. I erased OW ph no from all my phones. H cell no is also erased. So when he phones I don't know it is him.

As for them, they deserve each other, they do not deserve me. Maybe she will be able to teach H how to deal with conflict. As this is a serious sickness in his family. Father lives like a recluse. Brother committed suicide and nobody knows why. Or do they suit each other because even she cannot handle conflict. Her means of communicating is by screeching like a hyena. Now I can laugh about it that time it was just so sad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So guess what I will be looking for in my next relationship. Somebody that will fight and argue with me to the bitter end.(LOL)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So guess what I will be looking for in my next relationship. Somebody that will fight and argue with me to the bitter end.(LOL) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">aint that the truth. . . .

conflict avoiders suck big time. . . .

my XILs are like that. . . they have to be right.
my X said to me I want to be right. . .

and when we were married, and vacationing with her college friends, she insisted that her birthday party be only our family, no her friends. . .

now, her "new" friends are throwing her a drinking party for her birthday! her friends that are the ones that have affairs, broken marriages, dysfunctional lives. . . .

they can have her! and now she is looking for OM#3, the first two bailed as she is no prize. .

Just have to say, once again your stbx is just like mine.

I agree with wiffty, saying "no" works.

Treat them like the immature children that they are.

It's sad but true.

Hang in there. K

I loved his comment about you not having the guts to talk to him. Had he had the guts to work on your marriage, instead of running away from everything, then he wouldn't be in the position he is. Can't quite believe either, that he would choose to go off on a 2 week holiday with the OW instead of making the effort to see his children. The "I will take him to Egypt one day" comment may well come back to haunt him in the future, if he doesn't follow through with it, because his son will think that his father can't be believed or trusted, and puts the OW before his son. Tis a shame.

M.

Jackie,,

Hey girl, ltnt.. Wow alot has gone on say.. How are the kids all doing and what about you? Boy I guess I really did miss alot. You will have to fill me in. And I agree if any of the kids do not want to talk to dad. Let it be their choice don't force it. If you do it could come back and bite you in the bud..

Get back to me fill me in

Thank you so much for all the responses, I really do appreciate it.

Tonight the kids received a gooshy email from Daddy telling them he is sooooooo lucky to be their dad............hmmmmmmm, lucky is RIGHT! If I had known then what I know NOW he would NOT have been their Daddy.

Wiffty, the FOO issue is foremost in my mind regarding this whole thing right now. Over the years I have seen a few family attitudes surface, one is that they have to be right, the other is that though they may disapprove STRONGLY of a family member's actions, they say not a WORD. And then the family member falls into the proverbial, and then they have to help them out. I suppose they feel good doing that stuff. But what that attitude has created is an entire generation who are selfish and supposedly unaccountable for their actions. Not to mention BIG TIME conflict avoiders.

Ginny, you sound very strong....you ARE the better person, no doubt about it.

To seahorse, 231, GIIC and mn, thank you for your input. I got a lot out of each and every post. It is late here, and I am tired, so just know that I read them and appreciate them.

JJ - a special mention for you!!!!!! I am glad - er - well you know, to see you here again. Not glad you have to be here, but glad that you are, how's that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I did try to email you a couple of times,but the address I had didn't work after a while. Yes, a LOT has been going on, not any of it pretty, but for the most part I have managed to keep my sanity.

So if you'd like to email me I can fill you in... I think!!! I still have the same addy.

Love and light,

Jacky

Jacky,

YOu have come so far. You are one very strong lady. Wish I had your strenght. Keep going girl.

Hoping your STBX will finally get that you can't force kids to talk to you when you want them to do so.

Dear Jacky,

Our spouses are twins...I swear. My exH is still acting like a man from outer space after his episode with the kids last weekend. Now he is writing my 10 year old caustic emails.

Their brains have been seriously scrambled by their lifestyles--and unfortunately, they have too big of egos to admit the problem.

I don't think I am even going to respond to his latest bizaare email--they are so deep in the FOG or something(sh**)that they don't know how to respond rationally.

Just wanted you to know, I really empathize with you...am going through the same stuff here. I guess all we can really work on is damage control with the kids---and love them to the fullest when we are with them

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jacky}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}. Hang in there. Pat

hey jacky,

i have a full out email war with my ex at least 2x's a month. so i know how it works. we say some terrible things to each other via the internet. how sad. but it seems so much easier to keep an email fight going. at least the bas****s can't hang up in your face and it doesn't seem as infuriating to me when he stops responding as it does when he hangs up in my face... that enrages me!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

i am sorry that you are going through these emotional issues with your children... it seems so hard to deal with their little damaged emotions when your own emotions are so damaged. trust me i know. i'm sure most suddenly single mothers know...

you are in my prayers...

love and light to you...

kim... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

p.s. please comment on my post in the EN forum... it is the beginning of me and ex's email fight. got a lot worse and then a lot better, but i am sure conflicted. thinking of moving to Arizona...

Jacky,

YEAH FOR YOU!!!!

I am so proud of you..You didn't let HIM derail the conversation..You didn't let his little quips
get to you and take you off topic about HIS RESPONSIBILITY to tell the kids..

You didn't take the blame for his choices--you put them where they belong..on HIM..you've taken
responisibility for you and what you have and haven't said to the kids..he just can't handle it..

He's expecting YOU to tell them because he doesn't want to..He's hoping you'll get mad enough to say something..and then he can call YOU a liar to the kids..and blame try to continue to blame you for his choices..and YOUR NOT LETTING HIM!!! I think that is too cool..Your probably the first person ever in his life that has ever made him face up to his own actions..and he doesn't know how to respond..because it's different than anything he's ever done before..
Taken responsibility for his own actions..

I have a question...does he also blame everyone at work for things that go wrong? or does he take responsibility for his own mistakes??

Anyway...I think it's cool that you stood your ground and didn't let him get you off on a tangent..

<small>[ August 04, 2002, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: JJ71197 ]</small>

TR,

Thanks for the boost! Yep, once I could see through the BS fog (I believe BS's have their own kind of fog sometimes) I saw a man who has never taken responsibility for his own actions. That includes work, where if something goes wrong, it is because someone else made a bad choice, never him.

In his relationships with his parents and siblings, it is the same thing. He has repeatedly, in front of me, berated his father for saying something that HE didn't agree with.

His mother told me a story recently of how he got into major trouble at school one time, but rather face the consequences, he destroyed the evidence so his parents wouldn't see what he had done. She says he has never been able to take responsibility for his own actions. (Sheesh - wish someone had clued me in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

The biggest repurcussion for me during our marriage was that I was constantly made to feel like I was wrong/stupid/paranoid if I ever questioned anything he did...until I didn't question anymore because I couldn't stand him making me feel like that. This, of course, left the door open for him to do whatever he liked...and that was how he managed to have his affairs without me knowing. I just didn't ask where he had been because he would attack ME verbally, and it got to be too much.

And so, when he is made to face responsibility, he does NOT know what to do with that. Yes, TR, I will not do his dirty work for him, nor be blamed or accused for things I did not do. Now he KNOWS that, and maybe he will be more careful about how he deals with me. Yeah, RIGHT, LOL!

JJ, I have got your email addy now if you wanted to delete it from here. I may not write for a couple of days however! Busy girl these days!

Love and light,

Jacky

Hi Jacky...

How r ya? I hope fine! As usual, haven't been on the boards much... Well, just reading up on your story... you've really got moxy girl... it's good that you establish boundaries and state it straight. I tend to err on caving when it comes to holding people accountable to their words... good on ya!

Take care girl!

Ciao,
Nicole