Wow, Bleubelle and Schizzo's...you are right. I read on another thread someone saying Unfaithfulness isn't just infidelity but unfaithful to any of the requirements of the marital relationship. Of course nobody's perfect all the time, but H is breaking them as a continual pattern with no remorse! It's been horribly painful for so many years. <P>I drove by some apartments located near the kids' school...thinking of what might work out best....<P>Thanks to you all!<P>

Renae:<P>Got your e-mail, hope you got my reply.<P>I believe the Lord has sent you so many confirmations of what you should do, the latest being all the wisdom/insight Schizzo has given you.<P>One of the things that helped free me from the guilt of going thru divorce last year after a 4 year separation and a 33-1/2 year marriage was when I found out adultery doesn't only apply to sex.<P>Adultery means "unfaithfulness" in a broad sense. My wife was not guilty of sexual adultery, but she was unfaithful to our vows in that she chose to leave and not return to me. And the remaining partner isn't under bondage for God has called us to peace (I Cor 7).<P>Your husband has committed "emotional/verbal adultery" against you Renae.<P>Also, Jesus said Moses (through the Holy Spirit's leading) was allowed to write a law of divorcement into the Law. Jesus told the Pharisees this.<P>Yes, He said.....Moses did allow divorce, but He also went on to say, "But from the beginning it was no so".<P>In other words, the Lord, in His Mercy and Compassion for frail, weak and imperfect mankind.....gave us an 'out' even though it was never His Perfect Will in the beginning.<P>Renae.....I can speak from experience, "there is life AFTER divorce" and always remember "The Will of God is not fragile".<P>In other words, if you have tried to make your marriage work (which you have) and your husband, by virture of his free will chooses not to change and you end up divorced....<P>God is not going to fall off of His Throne, wring His Hands and cry out "Oh No, what am I going to do now?"<P>Many people stay together strictly because of a piece of paper but there is no love, no joy in their marriage. They simply exist. I have heard recently that this isn't honoring to God and that in some cases...people like this would be better off divorcing.<P>Anyway.....food for thought!<P>[censored] from Texas

Today, H is defending how his dad treated me on the phone last Sat. eve. and accusing me of having verbally attacking his dad!!!<BR>This is really very sick. This just shows he's more connected to his dad than to me and what the truth really is; his dad can do no wrong and I am the evil one. If that's how he's going to be, then I can't change it. <BR>After saying that, he told me he's been working three years at this marriage but I am the whole problem!!! He says we will divorce. He told me to go find a place. (He was sort of angry, so I'm not sure if this is his final word or not, but I think I'll follow up on it.)<P>It appears the relationship has breathed its final breath.<P>I will be free, huh?

ARE YOU TAKING YOUR DAUGHTERS???? ARE YOU LISTENING??? THEY ARE IN DANGER!!!!<P>GET THEM OUT OF THAT HOME.<P>I'm glad this is OVER for you - but is it OVER for them - or did you leave them there to be raised as sexual slaves to the man who abused YOU?<P>IF he hasn't abused them already - with his past, if he doesn't find another woman who will put up with his abusive kind of treatment, how long before he starts treating them the way he was treating you?<P>THINK Renae... YOU know what will happen ... DON'T LEAVE THEM!!!<BR>

I hear you, seekingjoy.<P>Counselor called me with the phone number of a Christian shelter, support groups, legal help. She said if he attempts to shove me around one more time to file a police report. She urged me to get a list together of all the times he's been physically abusive. <P>This weekend, H said that what he said on the 12th about "we will divorce; you go find a place"...was said out of emotion, so now, what is the solution? I told him I have some materials we need to read...He got mad, saying "you just want to run everything! The solution is what I say...The Bible and Tim Timmond's book Maximum Marriage" (We read that when we dated). Then why did he ask me?<BR>...To launch off more condemnation, of course. He started in falsely accusing me, putting me down...you're like this...you're like that.... What do you want in a divorce? I want the truth, I said,....why are you so afraid to read the materials I have? If you have all the truth, you shouldn't be threatened by this. What do you want in a divorce, he asked again. I said, I want the truth first. But if you go ahead, then be fair as you told me a year ago; if you have all the character you claim, then demonstrate it with fairness. (The ball is in his court now.)<BR>But I will continue to go forward as I am for myself and the kids as well, not waiting for him to do the right thing, but I will always say what he needs to hear....<P>I have been doing better emotionally the past several days, getting alot done. I thank God for this.... He is helping me to be able to get out of here. I am focused forward....<P>Keep praying for me! Thanks!<BR>

I heard Dr.& Mrs. Harley on the radio yesterday, talking about "neglect" in a relationship. I tend to think of the direct abuse rather than the neglect I experience, which truly wears down a relationship just as badly. <P>I guess in "Christian" teaching we hear more about being self-less, putting others first, etc., and that it's somehow selfish to consider yourself & your own needs and feelings as neglected in a relationship. I am so glad I heard Harley's words about neglect, awakening me again to the fact that it is WRONG to have such a low or no quality relationship!!! He says you wouldn't let a room go unpainted for over 10 years, or even just one day slap any old paint on it. People take great care choosing color for a room, etc, but neglect to maintain a quality relationship. So true.<P>Oh I'd love to have the kind of marital relationship Harley speaks of! He's doing another seminar in our area this weekend...<BR>I'm going to tell H about it, just in case he finally realizes I'm serious about change, though I won't hold my breath expecting him to go, and he would have to go alone this time. <P>H is mad that I'm so "independent" now. But it has been fine for him to be so independent all these years, not caring about me. Hmmmm<P>I helped his dad with business yesterday.<BR>He didn't apologize to me for how he's treated me...just acted like nothing has happened. Maybe this is where H gets it from?!! He's never treated me so horribly and I'm still hurting, and they could care less!!!! GRRRR <P>Going forward.....<BR>

Renae - if he physically abuses you so as to leave any marks, get photographs! If he roughs you up enoughn that you need to fight back, get to the ER at the nearest hospital for them to gather any evidence possible, such as fingernail scrapings. <P>And when you leave, take your angel children with you. Leave the clothes if you have to but take those angels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[censored], Bleubelle, Schizzo and all,<P>I think we are not helping the situation here. Our inputs give her a false sense that she is doing something about the situation, when in reality she is still just stirring her emotions. <P>Just as her husband needs to be separated from her for a season in order to face his own character, she may need a breathing space to be with her own reality and limitations. She can always come back and read the three threads here. <P>Continuing input may be what has her initiative stifled. Why should we care more about what she does and what situation she is in than she does? We don't have all the facts. She does.<P>Renae? You are the boss.

Karenna:<P>Well said! I am really discouraged by Renae's last post which after all that has been 'said & done' - she is still with him and still trying to make it work.<P>You're right.....I (we) don't have all the facts.<P>[censored]

Karenna,<P>I agree. That is why I have not posted again. She told us why she stayed, and I answered her point by point.<P>Did she read it? Did she take it to heart?<P>I don't want us to become enablers here too for the abuse that she is still allowing and the precious kids that are still exposed...

I was thinking about this earlier.<P>We've given her encouragement.<P>We've given her advice<P>She's a big girl and admits the situation is intolerable. For her and for the children.<BR>Yet, she chooses to stay. And Renae has that choice. Just as a counselor can not make you implement any of the strategies you discuss in therapy, we can not make Renae take her children and go to a safe place.<P>Sadly, I'll leave this alone. I wish she were out of this abominable hell of a marriage. But, I don't know of any more I can say or do. It is her choice. It's her life.<P>

Not to sound cruel in any way....<P>I was wondering how long it would take to get to this point. This is the very reason why I stayed out of it. She sounds just like my mother......<P>Maybe one day she'll be okay.....<P>Miaka<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited January 18, 2001).]

Hello friends!<BR>I just sent [censored] a lengthy e-mail and don't have much time to write here. Just want to let you all know I had a sane talk with H last night and we have decided to divorce and to do so cooperatively and as peaceably as possible. Seems like he's going to be fair financially to me as well as supportive of the kids' needs. I am grateful that he has apparently given up control. I will finally be able to have peace and get a life out of this isolation and pain. I'm so grieved and hurting now... more than I can describe.<P>I hugged him for some time and cried quietly at his neck, for I have loved him nearly to my soul's death, have spent 14 years in desperate search for help for us, and now must lay it all to rest and go on, accepting what I cannot change. God, it is so hard!!!! He can't comprehend how much I have loved him and still do. How I want for him to be healthy, etc...!!!!<P>Don't know when we will actually part ways...lots of stuff to organize and do...<BR>but I think it will be soon. Maybe by March 1.???...don't know, maybe sooner.<P>Anyway, thanks for the support and prayers.<BR>You've been there to listen when I've had noone at all. You've given advice and support, love, and so much....I am so grateful to you for taking the time for me.<BR>Thanks!!!!!!!!<P>Hugs,<BR>Renae<P>

It is so sad that it has come to this. But it is sadder still to think what you might be in for should you remain with him.<BR>((((((((((Renae))))))))))

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Renae:<BR><B>Just want to let you all know I had a sane talk with H last night and we have decided to divorce and to do so cooperatively and as peaceably as possible.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know about anybody else here, but does this sound a little bit strange after all the stuff she told us her husband put her thru and now they're getting a divorce?? And peaceful at that.<P>I'm sorry, Renae, but I don't believe you. How is it that your "abusive" husband can suddenly give you a divorce peacefully??<P>It doesn't make sense. I should've stayed FAR away from this thread.<P>Miaka<BR>

Why can't a trial separation work out? Did I miss something here? Whose idea was this?<P>Regarding a peaceful divorce, I don't know that you can take him at his word! Is he using this tone of sanity to beguile you into not using legal assistance? Don't succumb to that! You need a lawyer. Just the business issues you have will need expert handling, not to mention the family and property. As long as he cooperates, you two can write up your agreements then have them reviewed and refined by a lawyer and keep expenses down that way.<P>I am glad you got to cry over the loss on his shoulder. That does help a lot. <P>Good luck with everything. Your future will be what you make it, Renae.<P>Love,<P>Karenna

He's messed with your mind so thoroughly. Don't get suckered in and not retain your own attorney. Absolutely, you must not sign any documents without your own legal representation!!!!!!!!!!

Back to the top !<P>Anyone heard from Renae ?<P>[censored] from Texas

Hi,<BR>Alot going on in my situation daily....<BR>all I have time for is contact with Counselor via e-mail & phone. She says my situation is so multi-faceted that one has to be careful on all ends of it....Now the board she works under is aware too.... I will be getting legal advice tomorrow, which needs to be considered before I would run out of here. <BR>Running out too soon could create more problems for me. <P>Today it was such a relief again (after more of H's stuff) to hear that I have been doing right and that I'm not crazy!! I need frequent reminders of that!! <P>Your prayers are valued!!<BR>Hugs,<BR>Renae <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Renae:<BR><B>I will be getting legal advice tomorrow, which needs to be considered before I would run out of here. <P>Running out too soon could create more problems for me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So how are things now? Did you get a lawyer? Is your counselor active? Are you safe? Do you feel guilty?<P>