I am seeking help/opinions on an issue of trust. Years ago, before my wife and I were married but were quite seriously involved (discussing marriage), I caught her with another man. I know it was a mistake on her part, and even accept some of the responsibility for what happened. I had taken our relationship too much for granted and she fell for a guy that was showing her a lot of attention.<P>I have long forgiven her for the incident I believe, but never felt she told me the truth about the extent of things. She insists there was only the one time I caught them, but I have had very strong suspicions that it was much more extensive. She has vehemently denied this and it has been a source of conflict for us. I had tried hard to get over the trust issue when another issue came up. She was spending more money than I was bringing home and kept a private PO box to receive the credit card bills so I would not see them. Again, we are human and make mistakes, but I believe that incident further eroded my trust in her and has made it difficult for me to 'forget' that I never believed her story of her infidelity. I have also had questions about what else she used the PO box for.<P>Occasionally something will remind me of my lack of trust in her and I will bring it up again. The most recent time she became VERY upset with me and says things like "I can't believe you are calling me a liar!" She becomes very defensive, making the conversation difficult to stay on the issue, and she stresses how much she finds it an insult for me to not believe her insistence that her story is accurate.<P>I have since found strong evidence that her story is false and that there was MUCH more to her relationship than she will admit. I have not confronted her with this evidence as I would really feel much better if I felt she could tell me the truth about things without my forcing her into a corner. Although I question if even the story I have come across will allow her to admit the truth as she insists that the only way to 'prove it' is if there were a camera following their every move! The 'truth' I have uncovered, however, I believe is convincing to even the most skeptical.<P>I very much want our relationship to work, but I admit that I have a real problem trusting her and question whether either of us can really be happy given this lack of trust in our relationship. I plan on seeking counseling soon for my issue (partly from her insistence and partly from my recognition of the problem) and would like to discuss this with others who may have been in a similar situation and can offer advice.<P>Thanks.<BR>

I think that you should show this message you have written to your wife and see if she comes forth with the truth. If not I would show her your information. I found the P.O. Box very troubling. She needs counseling very badly. If you do not have truth and honesty in a marriage then what are you really left with? Good Luck

Thanks for the comments, but I am trying very hard to be fair about this. The last thing I think will help me is for me to take an attitude that this is 'her' issue and not mine. I know that I have a problem in that I have allowed this to bother me 'too' much! I am ashamed to admit to how I uncovered the 'truth', but here goes...<P>I have resorted to deceit of my own in my 'quest for truth'. I created an e-mail account using my wife's name and contacted the guy she had the affair with. Fully believing 'she' had contacted him, he was extremely pleased with the contact (to say the least) and proceeded to 're-live' the entire relationship! Needless to say, her account is WAY off!! I want to believe what my wife tells me, but it's very hard to believe that he would tell 'her' things that were fabricated given that they both knew exactly what happened. So I do have to believe his account against her word. Thoughts??<P>I am now committed to working out what is clearly not healthy on my part - what may be considered to be an obsession to find the truth. After all, I did this to myself by my finding him and using deceipt to find the truth. But I find it very difficult still to get past this issue as my distrust of her has apparently grown quite deep. I ask myself "what if she is really telling me the truth and my problem just makes me 'want' to find a lie?". Is it me or is the information I have found pretty conclusive???? And should that be the point?<P>I don't want to confront her with all this until after I have talked to a professional about it. I really want to fix things and not just make things worse instead because I acted solely from my own clearly troubled perspective.<BR>

This is a really tough one. You know that your wife will go ballistic if she finds out how you got the information. However the way you describe it I would tend to believe what this man had said about the relationship since he thought he was talking to your wife. I too would be extremely upset about this entire situation. She has in fact destroyed any and all trust that you had in her. I wish they could understand that most of the time is the lies and not the act as much that is so destructive. A thought might me to bring up some events that prove to your wife that you know the truth. Maybe this would allow her to realize that there is no point in lying.<P>I still have great problems about you catching your wife having a secret post office box to hide things from you. I understand how things like this can eat away at the relationship and the marriage itself. It is sad you had to resort to deceitful behavior to find the truth but I understand your need to uncover the truth. I do not condone what you did but I have to be honest and say I could see myself doing the same thing in your situation.<P>Would it be possible to talk to your wife and tell her how this has eaten away your relationship towards her and that you know the truth and drop some information that would make her aware that you do know? It is clear that you will not drop it and that it is putting your marriage at risk. Is she aware that the marriage could be at risk because of her inability to tell you the truth?

We have had numerous discussions about this. During the most recent I made it clear that this had not gone away and that it is putting our relationship at risk. The biggest problem we have had in these conversations (from my perspective) is that she gets VERY defensive, turns it all on me for holding on to this for so long, and it becomes difficult to reach any resolve. My hope now is that by my seeking professional help, she will do the same. I suspect everything will come out into the open then and we can begin to rebuild trust and finally heal. Thanks.<P>I would still love to hear from others on this.<BR>

I am sorry to say - I can relate to all you are going through. I'm married to a pathological liar. We have been married nearly 20 years. In addition to all the other problems we have, he consistently lies to me. He suffers from personality disorders and I now know that this is just another symptom. However, it does not excuse his behavior. He is still responsible for his actions - as is your wife. <P>The funny thing is I'm basically a trusting person and don't question him about things. But, over the years I've stumbled on several things that have caused me to dig deeper. Each and every time (armed with proof), I'd approach him and he would vehemently deny, deny, deny until I offered evidence. Then, of course, he'd be extremely mad and upset (words CANNOT express his emotions). The last time this happened was just a few months ago. He was having an EM and promised not to have ANY contact with the OW for six months. (I won't even get into the SIX MONTHS BALONEY). Anyway, I did some computer hacking and came upon an e-mail private e-mail address that he set up to communicate with her. I also intercepted an e-mail that he sent her. I prevented her from receiving the e-mail, but printed it out as evidence. (And DON'T ask how I got it. My husband, having a career in computers, is still baffled how I did this. It irks him to no end that I not only attained this info, but he can't figure out HOW I did it. I'm a stockbroker - but fairly devious and very computer literate). I confronted him at our marriage counseling session with one of our Pastors and he still denied, denied, denied. Until, of course, I provided proof. <BR>Needless to say, to date he still can't understand why I don't believe a word of what he has to say. I don't question him much - sometimes I just don't want to know. I know much of this has to do with his problems, but at times it is a bit difficult to handle. <BR>My advice to you is this: you will never fully trust her until she EARNS it. It may take months or years. But, she needs to get help or she will never understand her problem and never understand the damage it is doing to your relationship. <BR>If you do confront her with your "evidence", make sure it's at a marriage counselor or in a therapists office first. Make sure you have a reliable witness. <BR>I hope this helps somewhat. Trust is one of the most important elements in a relationship. She breached this trust. Like an affair, it is not easy to rebuild or regain that trust again. It's NOT impossible (except in situations like mine), but it IS hard work. Are you BOTH willing to WORK on it?<p>[This message has been edited by db8ne1 (edited May 09, 2001).]

My issue is clearly not as extreme as yours. I don't know how you have been able to live your life so long in a relationship so dishonest. It must say a great deal about the positive you do have in your relationship!<P>While it is, at its root, a trust issue (and I do feel that our spouse's behavior is the 'cause'), there is a side issue as well. In both of our cases we have resorted to somewhat lowly behavior to seek 'the truth'. I guess I wouldn't feel compelled to do such things if the trust issue were resolved, but I still question if our (or at least my) behavior is not rewarding the truth enough. Why does she feel she can't tell me the truth - especially after so many years? For my part, I am trying to learn to reward her more for being truthful. So far it hasn't helped in this case, but my hope is that it can help keep these things from happening again. Trying to learn...<P>I wish you the very best in your relationship!! And BTW - just think, if the stockbroker thing gets old, maybe you have a future in computer security ;-)<BR>

Bill9999,<P>Perhaps I can offer you a different approach to this whole mess. Bryanp keeps coming back to the PO Box. This is a much more serious issue than the affair before the two of you were married. I will get back to that in a minute.<P>It could be argued that you were somewhat a fault for the state of the relationship. It could be argued that she hasn't told you the details and the depth because she is protecting you. Let us assume that this is correct.<P>In the case of the PO Box, you were married to her. What she did could and may will have hurt you very much emotionally and financially. There is no compelling arguement that she can make that withholding that information was to "protect" you. It was not.<P>I think that you information from the distant past should be more for your benefit. You MAY now know what happened and then you may not. You already know she has kept secrets from you. And frankly the POBox is much more serious.<P>I commend you for getting counseling but perhaps she will decide to get some as well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I don't think you have forgiven her. You still don't trust her. But yes it would kill me if my H had a secret po box. I think you made a mistake in the email thing. Please dont pursue it. Your wife probably will find out if that man ever talks to her again. She made the mistake BEFORE you were married. You keep bringing it up. She may be tired of argueing about it, if she's tried to tell you the truth & you dont believe her. My husband turned around & tried to tell me that yes he did do things just because I didnt trust him. Could you guys work on a plan to come up with the Policy of Joint Agreement. Also what are you willing to do different that would be a plus in her love bank. Is she willing to do the same for you? I wish you well. A lack of trust on my part may have pushed my marriage past the point of no return. I pray I'm wrong & that he will go from withdrawn back into a conflict stage.

It's interesting that you say I have yet to forgive her. I've wondered if that has been the case and I haven't recognized it or just shifted it to something else. I've done a lot of soul-searching on this issue and I do sincerely believe I have forgiven her for the affair. I see a difference between not forgiving someone for something and yet still having a lingering lack of trust as a result, and from another, arguably more serious 'trust-breaking' incident.<P>And yes I do agree and feel that the PO box incident probably has a lot more to do with my lack of trust in her. I believe we both have issues to work on: she has done things that have 'earned' my lack of trust. I have not dealt with this in the best way I can. I have felt I have HAD to know the extent to which she has been dishonest. Believe me, I've wanted to conclude that she has been telling me the truth! I have told her very sincerely that if she told me, however painful it may be, what all really happened, what all was the PO box about, that I would put it behind us and we could begin to rebuild trust. Her response is insistent, angry, and defensive.<P>Doing what I did was the only thing I could think to do to find truth in what she was insisting. I feel this all has to come out into the open before I can begin to trust her again. And I know that I cannot continue in a relationship that is not completely trusting! I'm seeing a professional in a couple of weeks and I have no doubt that my wife will agree to the same. I plan on bringing up to the counselor what I have found out when I first meet with them. It seems we both have problems and really need a clear, objective viewpoint to help us to see what they really are and get us out of this rut.<P>In addition to a professional's evaluation, I am finding it helpful just to hear what others have to say - and just to get it off my chest with others who have no direct stake in it.<P>

Bill9999,<BR>Thanks! Maybe in my next career I'll work for a computer security firm. But, I'm having too much fun working in the securities field. I do love computers, though. Maybe when I retire, I'll go back to school......<P>Back to your problem, though. I am SO glad you are seeking professional help. Nothing like getting a fresh perspective from someone not emotionally involved in your situation. (Read my posts to jaybird from today, also). <P>Oops, gotta go. Husband just returned home from a week out of town on business. I'll post more another time.