<small>[ February 17, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

You need to read Love Must be Tough by Dobson. Also start writing your plan B letter after you've done a good plan A. I think the part you've left out of plan A is to work on you. Plan A doesn't make you a doormat. And also did you do any divorcebusting 180 techniques that help with the plan A?

I don't think so. You've begged and pleaded and she's resisted all the while. It doesn't make you appealing my friend. She's chasing others and wanting to be chased herself. Sure, it sounds full blown MLC. My xh waffled like that and even went to a marriage seminar...with his mistress who believed she was "going to hell" and used a church sponsored seminar to have her way.

If a guy begged and pleaded with me to stay with him like that I wouldn't see him as a challenge anymore. Nope.

She raised four kids. Look through her fog for a change to gain perspective. Until you know what is in their foggy minds, you can't fight anything. I could have told you she'd say no to Orlando. It was appeasement to buy her time to party and go out and continue. They will lie and say whatever they think will make divorces go smoother or feed their selfishness when in the fog.

Have you had a PI follow her yet? When she goes to "play pool"? I found out that my x was seeing one mistress by that. I am sure of two and possibly four. He just eloped with the mistress who got preggers.

You can't do anything or make her do anything. You seem controlling this way. Let her go. Write plan B letter if you think you've done a decent enough plan A. And then when she parties all night, lock her out and have her move. Make her see what's happening and get some sanity. But AFTER you've had a small change in you.

Lose the controlling stuff. You want her back but she doesn't see it this way. It is felt like control from their side ok? If she goes out, say that if she is out past three then she'd best stay out all night. Do the 180. Then switch to lights off plan B.

Control you. Help and listen to the kids. Don't try anything with you w. She will only resist more and more. Think about tug of war. She's pulling one way and you another. If you want the MLC to fall, then let go of your rope. It will make her MLC fall down just like other person on other end of the rope. Use your brain and quit using emotion for once.

Try this approach as it is for sure what you are working IS NOT HELPING. Einstein once said that the sure sign of insanity is TO DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING THE OUTCOME TO BE DIFFERENT.

It's great that you offered the MB weekend.

I don't really understand what happened with us, but suddenly we are on the right path. Last month, I simply decided I would not stay in a bad marriage.

He knew it. I didn't tell him exactly that I was done, but I ended MC with the second MC who told me, "The concept of care doesn't make sense to him."

We are in the MB program now. I asked him to attend the MB weekend in August, 2002, and he said no. I asked for January, 2003, and he said no. I got to feeling "I'm done" and now he is willing. The reason why I am telling you this is to give you hope. She may not be ready now, but she may be in the future.

Don't settle for crumbs. That's what I did, and that's what I got. Where was my sense of dignity, of self-respect, of self-worth that I would put up with his openly being more interested in another woman, swearing at me, and pushing me around until he caused some serious medical problems?

That's my story, and I'm sorry about that. I see you as being in the position I was in two years ago. I got through it thinking it wouldn't last, that something would change, and it did. IC gave me a sense of dignity, made me realize it was my choice of whether to accept such comtempt and poor treatment.

By the way, there is no love whatsoever left of me for him. I think it was gone by the end of the first month of our marriage, but there are memories of how much I cared for him when we were dating -- and how much he seemed to care for me --and that is enough.

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

TooMuchCoffeeMan has something on it in his signature line.

I think that the book The Solo Partner describes essentially the same thing. The book is out of print but your library could get it for you through interlibrary loan.

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

Dear David A:

I am very sorry for your pain. I understand completely how you feel. On July 18th last year my wife and a female friend of hers went out to a dance club all night. I was furious when she came home because she never called. I frantically called all her friends and her cell phone at 8:00 a.m looking for her. Was worried something had happened to her. The end result was that I voluntarily (but at her urging) moved out of the home, like you.

This soon became a lifestyle choice (and an unhealthy one) for her, and she made a habit of going out every Friday night while I watched the children. By Halloween I had enough and told her. In case you don't know, this was mainly after I had moved out of the house (July 24th). When I finally worked up the courage to tell her I would no longer watch her leave - knowing she was heavily embroiled in a party lifestyle, and that she would have to find a babysitter from now on, I gained back some respect for myself I had lost years earlier. I have not stayed at my home with my children over a Friday night since.

My wife has not formally filed for divorce that I know of, but has already divorced me in her heart.
I agree with many of the posters here in saying please do something for yourself. Keep on loving your wife, but no longer enable her behaviour. It will not help your marriage. When you lovingly take back control of parts of the marriage, your wife (whether divorce is in play or not) will begin respecting you (and loving you - without telling you) just a little more.

Keep up the marriage counseling. Go for yourself for now, not for the marriage. This is what I am doing. If your wife will not go to MC, see if the MC can phone her. This is what mine does, and my wife is willing to listen to him.

Hang in there and keep up the effort on yourself.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by David A:
<strong> Hi all,
Well I couldn't watch her going out and coming home in the wee hours of the morning so I talked to the kids and told them that their mother needed some time apart from me and her lawyer told her not to leave so I was going to stay at my fathers house for a little while. She managed between having the kids stay at friends on Saturday night and leaving them alone the rest of the time to go out every night this weekend. I thought she needed time alone to do some soul searching about saving our marriage. I guess she has become obsessed with living the life she never had and becoming the Hot Mom Party Girl. Not the kind of image I want my children having of their mother. Or me either... I really believe this is a mid life crisis with many other problems thrown in the mix. Makes for a giant brick wall between us that I guess I have no hope of tearing it down. I am continuing with counseling and praying and now I am going to my family to cry on their shoulders. Thank God they are there for me ! I know now that I will have to get better for me and my kids, especially if she continues living her life the way she has the last few weeks. Temporary court order hearing tomorrow. I was hoping she would postpone and give us some time but I guess that is a mute point now. She turned down my offer to go to the MB weekend in Orlando and hasn't answered me about returning to see another Minister / Marriage counselor. I suppose if she reads this it will upset her even more but it's all the truth and I don't think she sees it the way everybody else does. I'm still hoping to resolve this but at the same time I'm thinking more of myself and trying to heal my own wounds and problems.
Peace be with you !
David A </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

She's decided that she wants a bad M -- she'll do what she wants without regard for you. Are you willing to stay in a bad M?

I was -- for the sake of the children. Not only did I put up with abuse (swearing and pushing) but I also put up with neglect (running, golf, watching football on TV, -- it's not that these things are bad, it's that there wasn't ANY time for the family). He actually got upset with me because I asked him to deposit a check when he was going to the bank. He wouldn't because he was going to the ATM machine at the bank and it would take longer to do the drive-through at the teller window. I kept asking myself "Can I tolerate this?" and I could.

It wasn't until he was having lunch with a woman who was openly pursuing him ("Sleeping with Mark is better because of you") that I demanded a change. He changed, all right. He started lying. When I threatened to call this woman whom he said was calling him and it would be rude of him to hang up, guess what -- I got a broken arm.

The reason why I am telling you this is what I did, for the sake of the children, was put my head down, do my best to support him in what he wanted to do, and hope he would change. He got worse. The change was worse.

The affair did not come out of the blue. It came after years of neglect. It sounds to me like your W is headed down the same path.

I think that 180 degree program does give the spouse some time to consider what he is doing. My IC (I started counseling two months after the affair began because my H was telling me I was psychotic and I could see that I was very upset) told me to "cordially ignore" him and build my own life. In retrospect, I don't think that was the way to go. After the A came to light, one thing Tom said to me was "You knew something was going on, and you didn't do anything." Well, what could I do? I suppose, in the end, all I could do is separate. At the time, we had children ages 6, 3, 2, and under 1. It would have been difficult, but no as difficult as what did happen.

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

I was looking over your thread and had to give some feedback. You indicate that your wife is out partying and doesn't want anyone knowing where she is on weekends, your kids are 13/15....Boy, this is familiar to me. My parents got divorced and left my brother and I in limbo at the same time. My mom didn't go "party" however she was much more interested in being with her new man it turned out. Dad just nicely moved out and pursued work. We were left to take care of ourselves basically. Yes, we turned out okay-lucky for them! But let me tell you, it hasn't been easy emotionally. I still get choked up about nobody caring about where the heck I was and what I was doing. Don't let this happen to your kids! This is an age group that needs your time and attention. Why can't you have the kids and the house? You seem to be the responsible one? I hope I'm not offending you, but I just feel strongly about the situation.

Carry on.

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

And?

Can you find a third party to communicate through other than your children? What a terrible burden on them!

<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>