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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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OMG, she sings in the choir, is having an A, and has filed for D. She NEEDS you to be the bad guy. Guilt will consume her. A friend of mine told me, "Don't run interference for Tom's conscience." Just follow through on the consequences to her actions. I'm not sure what to suggest of exactly what to do, but maybe you could make it clear you are willing to have a good marriage.

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Hi David,

Well, I just read through all three pages of all the posts related to your topic and I have to say that I am really saddened by what your kids are going through.Forgive me but from what I have read,it almost seems like an afterthought that your children are being affected by this mess.

You and your W are so consumed by eachother,what she's doing,not doing and vice versa.I am willing to bet that your poor children are drowning inside,especially your daughter who now,according to you,will not speak to her mother at a time in her life when she desperately NEEDS a mother.

Like maccami mentioned,I too grew up in a household where not only was I an only child but I also had to fend for myself at an all too early age because of my bickering parents who were only involved in themselves and their bad marriage,wandering eyes(father) and then their bitter divorce.Boy did I have a LOT to overcome in adulthood because they didn't even recognize that I WAS SINKING in despair.

I could have literally gone out and hung myself in the front yard tree and they wouldn't have noticed until it was way too late.I am still amazed that I did not commit suicide because of the pain I was in back then.I had no one to turn to since my parents checked out long before.Friends couldn't understand,and it was too painful to talk about.

It is abominable that your kids should be at home alone for so long no matter what age,whether it is just happening or has been all along and it is also sad to hear that there is so much turmoil in the household when there should be stability and peace for the kids sake.Can you imagine their feelings, having to live with a parent(mother) who is so celf centered right now and also having to deal with their parents marriage dismantling right before their very eyes?

Truly,I do not want you to feel judged,that is not my intention but I just had to let you know that your story has affected me.It makes me want to reach through the computer screen and hug your kids.They are the innocent ones in all this.They need to be protected beyond all measure so that they can have some stability and peace in their lives and also retain SOME of their childhood.They are still children.Do they have a safe, comforting place that they can go because it doesn't seem like home is right now.

Don't use them to convey messages,keep them AWAY from the disaster going on around them as much as you can.Protect them and insulate them from bad behavior on anyones part.Especially if you think your W is tanking now they need that strong parent there to be their advocate and protector.

I do apologize again if this offends you in any way but it is difficult to hear what your kids are enduring I know all too well.

O

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P.S. David,

I also live in Mass.What general area do you live? If you don't want to say,that's ok.

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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I apologize if you're feeling a bit attacked. That really wasn't the intention at all. I realize you can't say everything your feeling and going through in a couple posts and that you're doing the very best that you can. I hope that your kids will realize that and remain close to you, whatever the outcome of the marriage. Hope your team wins the Super Bowl. Have fun tomorrow.

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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That's really wonderful that you have the support of your older daughter. Is she able to exert some pressure on mom? or at least guilt to make her change her new lifestyle? I'm not saying she can't still leave you....but at least being more stable. Counseling sounds great too. Take care!

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Love can return, but unfortunately you can't talk anyone else into it. I agree that you may be able to convince them it's worth trying.
I don't know who said it but....
"If you continue to do what you've always done, you'll continue to get what you've always got." If you do get the chance to try again (and that quote made any sense to you) it might be helpful to keep it in mind?

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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Dear David ~ I have read through every one of the posts on this thread. I can relate with most of what you're going through. My WW has also reached the point of "acting out". But in my case, she has moved out in a legal separation of 60 days. We're 1/2 way through.

What can I tell you? Your efforts to find your peace with God are paramount!!! Don't ever stop!!! The only thing you and I can do right now is work on ourselves, our relationship with God and our children.

I've just received a wakeup call from reading this. YOU and I BOTH need to focus MORE on our children than we ever have. I'm dead serious. A phone call is not enough. We need to see them more, draw feelings out. Do fun stuff togther to keep them afloat emotionally. This will potentially be life-scarring for them. I have 2 boys near your kids ages (12 & 14). We've got to concentrate more on them my friend. That is our calling in this.

More later. You're in my prayers I assure you. Just placed you before the Father just now. Please remember me in your prayers!

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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David, may I make a gentle suggestion? I think your daughter needs you now more than ever. She needs to relate to a man who loves her to learn what is right and wrong, and how to deal with life's ordeals.

Use this opportunity to approach her and simply state, "honey, I want you & me to be together more as father/daughter. I love you & need you."

Then do stuff she likes to do WITH her!! It'll seem weird at first, but you'll develop enormous insights into her mind you never would.

To not become proactive is to set her up for unthinkable devastation later on in her own life's relationships. This sort of thing really scars kids if we're not careful.

May God attend you and your family at this time.

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David,

I totally agree with High Flight. You had quite a day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> , Great job keeping your composure. I would like to note that, as you know, your kids are totally aware of who is giving up on your family. This will always be clear to them throughout their lives. I can tell you that I am much closer to my father because he, like you, didn't want it to end and has been there for me much more. He still comes to my house at least once a week to spend time with us all. Kids love him, dog loves him....You can go on with your life, learn and grow, but keep those bonds with your children strong and close. I am sure this will be your primary source of joy and probably theirs as well. Read, read, read - and changing gears, please don't read the Dr. L book.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Take care!

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One more thing while I'm thinking about it....(sorry!) This is your second marriage, right? Why not ask each of the wives, past/present to help you help yourself by filling out the lovebuster questionaire and/or emotional needs questionaire? This could a. Help you determine what you are doing wrong and b. Make wife #2 realize (hopefully) that you weren't such a bad guy in many ways....Perhaps she'll be able to be less blind in her expectations of Dennis (yuk) and he'll become less attractive. I have a hard time understanding how someone can respect a person who would date a married person? PS: You might want to start a new thread in the INFIDELITY section...will produce some good feedback, no doubt.

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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You're a quick learning man David! Keep it up!!! Yes, God's will is paramount. Even our Lord used to pray, "nevertheless, not my will, but Thine be done"!!!

Shows our humaness (which Jesus shared) is so very limited in forward looking mode.

Ask your daughter what she would like to do. Give her first choice. But absent of her suggesting something, be prepared with a backup plan of your own. Don't be afraid to try new stuff. Doesn't have to be expensive either.

Make sure you get time with your kids absolutely solo. Just you and each one of them by themself.

Here are a few ideas: hiking, rock climbing indoor place learn to belay, her do a "fashion show" at mall dressing rooms, you be the judge / MC, sit in library reading together, a trip to the seashore, any theaters with plays, find the coolest websites and share them with each other, show her what you do at work, go to an old folks home and adopt a "grandparent" you can both write to and visit together, go together to serve food at a homeless shelter, soup kitchen, etc.

Blessings on all of our families in our Lord's name!

<small>[ February 04, 2004, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: High Flight ]</small>

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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Dear David. Been there (your story of her being hot and cold, come close...go away behavior), done that, got a VERY UGLY T-shirt! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just know that this is all very typical behavior exhibited by someone in "the infamous FOG" of denial, grief, despair, depression, self-centeredness.

She will flip flop around like a dying fish on shore. Your job? Stay steady. Don't react. Don't let her push your buttons. Lean on God. Let Him tell you what to do. Stick to principle. Develop your plan and work it come what may.

Don't let go of that house. Don't let go of the kids. But don't fight with her...no matter what, it won't help anything ultimately. You're going to have to walk a very fine line between being a H who wants her back and will stick with his M vows until the bitter end if need be. AND, a H who is about to get shafted, therefore it's all about business at this point, protecting your finances for the future. God will help you negotiate these tricky waters.

God be near to you. Go love you kids to the Nth degree right now. They are REALLY suffering I can assure you.

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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<small>[ February 17, 2004, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: David A ]</small>

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