3 years ago I left my wife and 2 children (boys of 11 and 14 at the time). Our life was boring and I wanted more. I did not see my wife as the woman I had married, just a fat mother - and yes I know now that I let her know that.

I moved some 15 miles away, on my own. It was not a pleasant time.
At all times I made sure that my family was looked after financially.
The strange part is that we still had a sexual relationship - very good in fact, around 3 times a week we would meet.

After a year I met someone else and moved in with them, I knew this was wrong at the time, but I sort of got dragged into it.
My wife was obviously very hurt by this, but never the less we continued to meet regularly.

The relationship lasted till about a year ago, when we split up and I moved again on my own.
My wife was supportive, helping me move etc.

Things started to get better between us, we would go on holiday, stay over at each others houses etc.
But all the time there was been this barrier between us, knowing what happened but unable to really speak about it.

I guess I was happy with having my freedom, and my wife when I wanted her...

Anyway I think it came to the point where moving back in together was getting closer and she changed totally.

She said she does not want to go back through the pain she has suffered and is happy on her own with the boys, but wants to be friends, and no longer lovers.
She said she has got good friends and that she does not need a man.

I don't really think she has met anyone else, although of course I jumped to that conclusion.
But I have asked her, and believe her, and also she never goes out (although she does work full time)

Of course this was a big wake up call for me and I realised how stupid I had been and how I wanted my family back again
I finally started thinking about what my wife has been through, and obviously the guilt hit me.
So all I want now is to get back home and spend my life making things up to her

This all came to a head 2 weeks ago, since then I've tried all the usual wrong things, telling her how I love her and want family back etc.
I have written to her, spoken to her etc

She is now unbelievably cold towards me, even to the extent of not giving me a hello or goodbye kiss when I pick up the kids.

She freely says she doesnt know why shes changed, "maybe because now I can have you I dont want you"
We did have a long phone conversation a couple of nights ago, and I am going round for lunch on sunday.
It was a difficult conversation, I felt that she was almost at the point of having a breakdown, talking normally one minute then getting emotional etc

My thoughts are that she is terrified of going through more pain so she has decided (subconciously or not) that she is better off on her own.
She gets annoyed if I try to have a serious conversation.

I am desperate for some thoughts or advice on how I can fix this.

Thank you for reading this

<small>[ December 31, 2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: graeme ]</small>

Sorry, I'm new here and probally shouldn't be giving advice, but are you seriously wondering why she doesn't want to continue a relationship with you?
You tell her she's unattractive, leave her to "sow your oats" while she raises your children, you meet a new woman and yet keep your wife on the side, completely disregarding how any of this made her feel... Come on now, you can't really be surprised that she finally decided to move on? You recognize now how stupid (and selfish?) you were- but do you realize that you are doing it still? Right now you are AGAIN not considering what SHE wants- only what you want- your family back. Think about what she wants for once. If you do that she might see that you are willing to change...

Again, I'm new so I'm sure you'll get better advice from the diplomatic veterans...

Thanks, I agree completely with you. I just don't know how to do it

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
<strong> I just don't know how to do it </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Graeme,

It almost sounds like your W has met someone else, and is now ready to "move on" with her life....I don't want to alarm you, but just want you to consider that option. If that's so, you need to think about how you will handle that news.

Dicentra gives good advice.....you seem to have lost sight of the fact that your W has waited around quite a long time to have changes happen, but they seem to only have come after it's too late.

It may or may not be too late. But there IS good news......there is a way to bring love back into a relationship. But it isn't easy, and there isn't a magic pill that will guarantee it. Click on the link above for "Concepts" and read about Plan A.

Plan A is usually used to negotiate trying to get the WS away from the OP. However, these "practices" (Plan A) are also good to use to keep the LB$ (Love Bank) deposits coming toward your spouse so they aren't tempted to stray. See, we only feel "fulfilled" and "in love" in our M's when our LB$ is full up. It's when our EN's (Emotional Needs) are not being met that we feel unhappy, unloved, tempted to look elsewhere.........
It's all outlined in the Concepts pages. Please go there and read all about it. THEN start Plan A'ing your W! She needs to know you have changed (this could take some time to prove to her). She needs to know you WANT to be there for her all the time (something else she doesn't believe right now, based on past behavior).

Plan A will give her a chance to have Love Units deposited into her LB$ BY YOU once again. It's probably a pretty big deficit right about now.

As I said, start meeting her EN's, making LB$ deposits, and give her T-I-M-E to heal.

God Bless,

Thank you, I must say that until just yesterday I was still my old me me me me self. Even though I had thought I had "woken up", it was just selfishness again. Your posts have helped me realise how lucky I am that my wife has not completely dumped me yet. I still have hope because we talk on the phone, she specifically does not want a legal divorce yet and she has invited me round to cook a family dinner tomorrow.

Yes there may be someone else around, and I have thought of this. But she says there's not and is never out - she has her work in a local school, with good friends there and spends her evenings cleaning the house and reading. Although the thought does eat at me, deep down I believe her, and I guess I think well if there is then there is...

I do understand most things now, whether or not I can change sufficiently or permanently enough to save things remains to be seen.

I've read most of the Concepts here and they are like a shining light. I hope that I genuinely am starting to believe them, and not just using them as another tool to get what I want for myself. You see I can be honest about my motivations as well.

As well as selfishness, my other big fault is impatience!
I think I need to get some books to read, can you recommend any?

The other thing I am thinking of is counceling, I don't think it would be right to mention this to my wife yet, I think it would be better to go myself, make some visible progress, then tell her - what do you think.

Don't quite know how to go about this as in in the UK, I presume most of you are in the US are you? And most of the stuff I can find is US related. I guess I'll start with my GP.

Thanks again and keep them coming please it's a great help!

Well I went over for lunch today. It was ok but strained. Wasn't much of a chance to talk because 17 year old son was hanging about constantly. Despite all the reading and thinking I've done, I've got to say that all I really wanted to do was break down and beg forgiveness. I tried being positive, but I know that she was waiting all the time for me to do something. I did make a huge mistake and say "i'm trying" she got annoyed and said "I knew you'd say something!" I suggested I look after the kids on the holiday coming up and she could go away to a beach with her friend (she loves the sun). But she rubbished that immediately. So I came away feeling very despondant again. We've spoken nearly every night on the phone and it is very good and relaxed, but when I see her it's strained. She's very cold with me and I know it would be pointless trying to talk about us. I think shes decided its time to move on. I don't know what to do now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
I've got to say that all I really wanted to do was break down and beg forgiveness.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's good you didn't! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did make a huge mistake and say "i'm trying" she got annoyed and said "I knew you'd say something!" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There ya go!! A CLUE that she doesn't want any *pressure* put on her. Just keep Plan A'ing....and being very calm, nice, pleasant to talk to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We've spoken nearly every night on the phone and it is very good and relaxed, but when I see her it's strained. She's very cold with me and I know it would be pointless trying to talk about us. I think shes decided its time to move on. I don't know what to do now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A, Plan A, PLAN A~!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Keep reading here, keep learning, growing.

This takes time, my friend.

God Bless,

<small>[ May 09, 2004, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Thanks, this board is immense support to me. It gives me hope.

I'm still confused over Plan A - I know I need to be pleasant, no-pressure, supportive and a nice person to be with. I can see that I need to fill up her love bank. I know the messages I need to get across to her, but she doesn't seem to be listening to them.

I also suspect that a lot of patience is needed. We ended on a "see you sometime" ... I guess I know really that all this started 3 years ago and I ain't going to fix it overnight....

I came home and wrote a peom - the first time I have every done that (I'm 46). She likes poetry and I know that at the right time she would appreciate it. But I think I should probably hold off for a while??

It's Never Too Late

I have wronged you
I have hurt you
I did not listen
And now you are gone

I have been selfish
I have been jealous
I know this now
But is it too late

When I met you I knew
You were the one for me
Then I forgot
How could I

If only I could go back and change
But I can't
All I can do is ensure
The future is like the start

But

It's never too late
To right a wrong
It's never too late
To start again


Never having done any poetry I was quite proud of that!
I am going to find some counceling tomorrow, unfortunately the US seems to be far more advanced than the UK!

Graeme,

Personally, I think if you get the chance to give it to her, I would.

In fact, I DID! Only it wasn't poetry! But I wrote a sort of "apology" letter to WH. About things I recognized I had failed in our M. I mailed it to him, as he had moved 200 miles away.

Did he read it? I have NO idea. To this day (almost 3 years later), it has never been mentioned. But what I did, I did for ME as much as for HIM. I needed to verbalize (to both of us) that I had failed in certain aspects of our M. I'm glad I did that, even if he never read it. It was cathartic.

Let me just add: If you DO give it to her, do it with NO expectations. You are right to say this won't be fixed in days....it will take time. Time is ALL you have on your side now, so don't fear it.

They say it could take as many MONTHS as you were M'd in years before a turn around could take place........so do the math. Keep in mind that your W had to endure the awful pain of infidelity.........

She's probably still angry about that, as well. Yes, this will take some time. Keep reading, keep posting, keep fixing YOU. Try to get your hands on some of Harley's materials, OR call them for phone consultation (yes, I'm sure very expensive from UK, but might be worth it).

God Bless,

Hi again,

Well I did try writing to her before - did about 1000 things wrong though! I put it through the letter box at 1am (she was annoyed in the morning that I had been round at that time), And mainly - it was all about ME! But I learnt that one, and this time I would write it in a nice card and post it. What do you think of the words?

I thought about calling but like you say I'd probably end up bankrupt, so I think I'll try and find a local one - who knows when I tell her I'm going she might come with me some day.

Yes I need to work on ME! (Thats probably a lifetime task in itself!)

Graeme

Well I think I decided not to give her the poem yet. She clearly doesn't want any pressure so I'm going to try and not give her any.

I also found a therapist locally that sounds just what I need to learn to change! Hopefully I will get an appointment this week.

Graeme

I just had to catch up on your story after I rebuked you on Wish’s thread. Sorry. I guess I was a little defensive.

Anyway, no poem yet. I’ve received several poems in my life, and much depends on the frame of mind of the receiver.

And of course she doesn’t want to listen to you! You’ve behaved like a donkey, and she’s let you. See, at this point, it’s not just about you. It’s about her self-respect. The fact that she let you treat her like a strumpet is probably eating away at her.
So right now, she may want to regain her self respect. And probably the only way she sees that she can do that is by giving you the ole heave ho.

On the positive note, she put up with you for this long, so quite possibly she knows your redeeming qualities and likes those.

So here’s where you get to demonstrate patience. It’s the worst part of it all, IMHO. I hate waiting. Just waiting. It’s hard work!

GG - no problem, I just want to start contributing back to this as people are being really helpful to me.

I understand about the poem - it could be the breakthrough or the end depending on the mood - just too risky right now.

I think you have it spot on. She keeps talking about what people will think of her, I know she has had a huge knock to her self esteem. She talks about holding her head up high, not needing anyone, and losing weight. It's just impossible just now to break through the barrier she has put up.

I just called her as I do every night - she wouldn't pick up to start with but did eventually, so we had a little chat, nothing good or bad from it.

But to be positive I also think she has waited this long, and suffered so much that she must know there is something worth saving.

Yes patience is difficult, but I keep telling myself she gave me almost 3 years. Deep down I am convinced that the breakthrough will come. I'm really not sure if constantly contacting her is a good thing or not?

Graeme

Graeme, I think one of the keys to your situation - for your own sanity as well as for your wife's comfort - is something to which lupolady alluded: drop your expectations.

You need to put yourself in a frame of mind where you do not ask yourself whether something you say or do might win your wife back. Instead, approach your situation with this one overriding question: "How can I love my wife?"

And one of the keys to that is to allow your wife to set the boundaries of her comfort zone.

The reason you shouldn't give that poem to your wife right now is not that it's "risky"; it's that it crosses the boundaries she has implicitly set.

Of course, implicit boundaries are difficult to work with. It would be good if you could discuss the boundary issue with your wife. Let her know that you appreciate the pain and damage your choices have brought her, and that you have no right to expect her forgiveness or to ask for another chance. Let her know that you can't "make it up to her" for what you've done, but you'll do as much as you can according to what she permits, and you'll do it with no strings attached - so that if she eventually decides to walk away you will not use against her the fact that for a time she permitted you to be involved in her life. In other words, you will not interpret any softening toward you as "leading you on," but rather you will honor whatever boundaries she sets - whether she moves them further or closer - and you will be grateful to her for being open to however much that turns out to be.

And mean it. All of it. Otherwise, you will be caught up in a mode of selfishness again. And self-pity.

GDP - Yet again I am amazed at how sensible the advice I get on here is. I know you are 100% right, changing my behaviour is of course the hard bit!

I have found what seems to be a good therapist here and am currently arranging an appointment

Good for you. I personally would stop contacting her every day. Except to talk to the children which can be brief.

Clingy is not a pleasant trait in women and is terrible in men. So, ease up. The one thing you do want to avoid is having her lose weight and then appearing interested.

We women know attractive spouse is important, but we don't like it any more than men like to hear that financial support is important.

So, respect her boundaries. If she doesn't pick up after 4 rings, hang up. That's plenty of time and if she wants you she can *69.

(Who chose those numbers by the way!)

GG - what do you mean about financial support?

I just mean that financial support is often one of the top 5 emotional needs of women, just as physically attractive spouse is usually a top 5 EN of men. I think it has to do with status really. Having “caught” a wealthy or successful man is an unspoken badge of honor to this day. So is having a attractive wife.

It’s an unpleasant truth.

GG, Well she can never say I haven't done that. Financially, my family haven't suffered at all. But I don't know how much longer I can keep doing that - the debts seem never ending!

I had gathered you were a very good provider and still are. I was really just commenting on the Physical Attractiveness need. Most women hate to admit that we are love for our looks along with other wonderful qualities. We'd secretly love to be able to let ourselves get plump, go without any make-up, wear whatever. It's hard for us to hera our husbands dont find us attractive however we may look at that exact minute. Screws with our self image.

I have to believe men have a similar ambivielance about the Financial support need. In general. I hear tell of men who are proud that their wives don't work inside the home or outside. They enjoy having a country club wife or a horsey wife.

Oh, ignore my ramblings. It's been rough and weird today.