How on earth do I get her to talk to me! I leave her alone for a couple of days.. I just rang - not pleased to hear my voice, we make small talk for a while, ask how she is etc, tell her what I've been doing etc. I was very friendly, not at all worked up. Then she says well I better let you go. I say look it's not good that we can't even talk these days. She blows up and says well you're just where I was 3 years ago, I've come out of it now I'm not in your space am I we're just going to be friends. I said yes but we have common space, kids house etc, we still have to get on. She says dont blackmail me, you see the kids when you want just don't involve me. I say well I think you just want me to disappear. She says no I'm going to disappear.

I've got to say I'm getting really annoyed at her now.

G- What are you doing???? Why did you call her? She’s starting to irritate you? I think you might be irritating her as well.

For a least a little while you’re role is that of the master’s well trained dog. You are underneath the table patiently waiting for any tidbit your master may want to throw your way. You are NOT begging, howling, growling, nor are you running off with the first person who offers you a bone.

I know you’re not a dog, but the analogy works on the surface.

I know you’re hurt and your ego is bruised. I wish it weren’t so, but it is. Your wife doesn’t want to talk to you right now. If you pressure her to, you’re demonstrating that you only care about what YOU want and not what she feels is good for her.

So, let’s brainstorm how you can respect her need for space and protection from you, protect you from the pain of rejection, and protect the possibility of reconciliation from you both!

How about writing her a letter or email saying that you realize you’ve been hurtful, etc. You want to be with her, but realize she may not want to be with you right now. You’d love to hear from her any time she wants, but in order not to offend her with your presence, you won’t be contacting her except via email or an intermediary in order to schedule the children’s visitation.

Hi, I think I'm just worried that if I don't keep in contact then I will lose her for good.

Is this normal behaviour? Can I really expect for her to change again when she is so cold to me? I just don't understand how she can suddenly change so much (a month ago we were on holiday, 3 weeks ago we slept together...). Yes I know about LB etc....

Ok so I know the theory is that I back off a lot and be patient, it just doesn't feel right to me.

I have my councellor on monday so I know I need to hang off till then at least.

Not sure about writing to her - the last time I did that didn't go down very well!

Just very frustrated just now!

Of course it doesn't feel right. Your instincts say hang on for dear life. Unfortunately, our instincts are not good guides in relationships. Mating is instictual. Long-term relationships like marriage are counter-instinctual.

If you're worried, don't write. If you do write, post it here first asking for editing.

I can't tell you how many times my letters were rewritten and rewritten by those here. (Thanks, all!)

Finally, just for fun I'd post spoofs of letters I'd written.

So, it's Thursday night. Do you have the kids this weekend? If not, what's your survival plan to get you through a weekend alone?

Hiya,

No intentions of writing (well of sending a letter anyway! I will no doubt carry on writing hundreds of them!) I know in my heart to give her space and time.

I'm not seeing the kids this weekend - won't see them till tuesday. I just got my "His needs Her needs" book so that will keep me busy for a while (then no doubt I will want to take her round a copy!).

I do have lots to do - housework :-( and a lot of papers to type up, so I'll make myself get stuck in through the weekend! I may just post the last letter I wrote (but didn't send) to her, no intentions of sending it but comments would be interesting...

Thanks again, the help keeps me going!

Hi all,

Well a little bit of an update from me....
I haven't been in touch except for yesterday when there was a problem with our youngest son. Won't go into his problem but the conversation was ok but strained and I could tell I was not welcome.

So I just got back from by first appointment with my councellor. As you would expect most of the time was spent going through my story. She thinks there is hope and basically the plan is for me to have 2-3 appointments myself working on myself and then if necessary, she will contact my wife and see if she will go along on her own.

In the meantime I got the same advice that everyone else has been telling me = patience patience patience!

In the words of the councellor, all the traffic has been going from me to my wife, so I need to stop that and see if I can get some reversal in this!

So must keep busy now & get through some "patient" time!

Graeme

Hi all, a bit of an update,

So - I haven't seen her at all for two weeks now, and no contact of any sort for a week. I've still seen the kids, but I've been picking them up at the door and just dropping them off again. Anyway today I went round for the eldest (I'm teaching him to drive), was just about to drive off when she came out. Started asking how I was etc what had I been up to and wasn't I coming in for a minute to catch up! So I went in, we chatted very friendly about what we each had been doing etc. Then she said did I want to get some steaks while I was out and have a bbq when we got back! Well I was stunned and delighted of course. So when we got back we sat and spoke for a couple of hours about the kids, what we'd been doing and quite a bit about how she would like to go to college and change her career. She asked me to sort out her car tax for her. No emotional or "couple" talk at all. Then we had the bbq and I came home, just a peck on the cheek as I was leaving. All very friendly... So of course I'm hoping that this is the start of us building a relationship again, I guess lots more patience is needed though!

Graeme,

This is certainly GOOD news!!!

Steady as she goes, my friend. And slow. DOn't rush things, don't expect much at first.

BUT, you must remember - NO EXPECTATIONS - No relationship talk. Let her come to you on HER terms, and in her own time.

I am right there with you..........H is calling, but very infrequently, and we talk very friendly. This is nice, but of course, I long for more..........just trying to be patient.

I call it "testing the waters." Keep focused on YOU and being the best father to your children you can be.

God Bless,

Lupolady,

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes I was very careful not to get into any "heavy" talk. Must say it was quite easy, we were both quite relaxed. I know now that patience works, I'm actually amazed that it worked after such a short time! Problem I have is that my councellor was going to contact her in a week or two to see if she would go in and have a session on her own, I'm now thinking I should maybe let that lie for a while, but I will discuss it with my councellor tomorrow.

Glad to here your H is calling, that's a good start too, however infrequent to begin with!

Graeme

Hi, well not a very productive week, the last 2 days have been hard. I'm not sleeping and yes I know my expectations are too high...

My councellor was pleased with the contact last weekend and we agreed that I should carry on this plan. But nothings happened.. No contact from her at all.

I feel like it's time for me to give up and just take the papers round to her, tell her if that's what she wants she can have a divorce. What's the point? I can change, I can make this a good marriage again, but not by myself, maybe I should just accept it and try to move on.

G-, I’m hoping that today you’re feeling a little differently. But just in case you aren’t… bend over and assume the position for the kick in the you-know-what.

If you give up now, I’d say you don’t deserve her at all! All you have to do is be patient. Let her be in control. Roll with it and accept with gracious gratitude any time or energy she cares to expend on you.

Your wife is not mistreating you. All she’s doing is protecting herself. She’s probably scared to death to get too involved with you because who knows what may happen. You could slip back into your old ways.

So get a grip. If you really want your wife as your wife, you’re going to have to be patient. If that’s not what you want… then my advice would be different.

So, did my tell-it-like-it-is approach work? Do you feel invigorated, or at least thoroughly annoyed at me? In my experience there is nothing like a counter-irritant.

GG - make it a good hard kick! It's hard, really hard but just a message of support like that does wonders! You made me smile not annoyed!

I know I need to be more patient, the hard bit is getting through the days/weeks when nothing happens. I am working on myself, and will get there. It just gets sooooo tempting to do something to get a reaction!!

This is the woman I want to spend my life with there's no doubt about that, it gets stronger every day. I know that just 20 minutes away from me are my wife and my children and I so badly want to do the normal things with them.

I saw my councellor today and we concentrated on a few things I need to do for myself - get down to the gym, get a hobby, maybe some voluntary work. So I've got to get on with that from tomorrow.

Graeme (keep kicking me please!!)

OK, let take a swipe at it...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I promise it won't hurt - THIS TIME!!

Graeme, you are to have NO EXPECTATIONS. That doesn't mean for a day, or one whole week. IT MEANS AT ALL. Till SHE's ready.

Please calm down!!

This is going to take TIME. T-I-M-E.Get it?? You've hurt her immensely. Give her time to heal ffrom that.......

Keep reading, keep growing, keep improving yourself.

I do this by thinking: I've got nothing else to do, I've got lots of time on my hands......I'm going to work on X-Y-Z.........when we get back together, won't H be THRILLED with the "new me?"

See?

Working on YOU, self-improvement. Your counselor hit the nail squarely on the head with the advice: "Go volunteer, take up a hobby, go lift weights, etc."

Good advice.

Then again, you can always come here and post! That's what I do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

God Bless,

And really, Gramae. Just because you can’t see or hear it or feel it, doesn’t mean nothing is happening. All around us tiny little electrons are having a huge dance party, but we can’t hear them or see them. We’re too big.

All around us the universe continues to expand and the plant spins around an axis and circles the sun. But we can’t feel it because we’re too small.

Things are cooking. Sometimes we catch a wift that teases us, but we aren’t in on the big picture. The Creator is the only one who sees the whole. So, we just need to be patient.

Thanks lupolady and greengables,

I know I need to learn patience and concentrate on me. I genuinely am getting myself up and running, maybe i'm slow and it takes a lot of forcing me but I know it will get easier.

I had the kids out today, so when I took them back I went in. Spoke to W for about an hour. All was very friendly. No relationship stuff and plenty of the telling her what I'm doing to get out and about. We both stick to very safe topics and I know it's not the time to get any deeper.

The hard bit is seeing absolutely no signs of affection from her while inside I just want to reach out and hug her.

Should I be doing anything else?

Graeme

Anonymous flowers may be okay. Pay in cash and have them delivered. If you really want to have fun, send a card, but leave it entirely blank, or put one word down like “Because.” But you can’t write anything that would point to you, or that would seem to ask for something in return. For instance, you should not say “Just because I love you.” Too much pressure.

The hard part is that you won’t get any response. This would be something you’d do only to bring joy to her. You won’t reap the benefit of it at all.

On the other hand, your wife will feel excited, intrigued and sexy. She will know someone out there cares about her.

Oh, my! Have you seen that cliché Doris Day movie Pillow Talk? Rock Hudson woos Doris Day as a naïve cowboy. Meanwhile, he’s also a playboy who’s fallen for her big time. Hmm. Now that I think about it, it doesn’t work.

But you could, slowly, stick a toe in the water. How many women dream of a secret admirer that loves and cherishes them and wants them bad, who in the end turns out to be their husband? Probably Big Blue’s super machine couldn’t calculate that number.

Greengables - Hmmmm that's a very tempting thought! But I think maybe I like it because it's actually doing something rather than being patient and waiting with my no expectations!

Trouble is she would know it was me right away - and probably ask me! Or worse hide them from me if she thought there was an admirer out there!

Graeme

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
<strong> Anonymous flowers may be okay. Pay in cash and have them delivered. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Naw. I wouldn't do it.

It seems "manipulative" somehow. And if she already sees you as manipulative, or controlling, or aggravating (cause you won't leave her alone), I would think it would only send her further away.

I really would just be patient! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

When I wanted to do something - ANYTHING to keep my "memory" in front of my H, cause I thought he would somehow *forget* me, etc.....I kept getting messages (here and other places), about just waiting patiently. I didn't like it, but nothing else really worked. So I did.

Now, we talk rather regularly, and things seem to have turned toward a better direction for us.

Please try being patient, and doing nothing right now. Give it a month or two, and see if she starts give you a little more attention.

Praying for you, Graeme

God Bless,

Thanks you again. I know you are right.

Keep kicking me!
Tomorrow I give up smoking!!!!!


Graeme

I defer to LupoLady on the flowers.

How's the quitting coming?